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I’m attempting to install Puppy Linux 32 onto a flash drive for a Dell from 2004. I need to keep this system completely offline. Is there a Linux tool which will create an archive with all the application and dependency files required for an application like Thunar File Manager?
I have a VirtualBox Puppy VM so maybe I could run such a program from the VM and create the file.
Thank you!
What specific Puppy version you talking about?
Give us the complete name of it's ISO.
There are several 32bit versions of Puppy Linux and it does make a difference how you can use them.
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The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected 
Why Thunar file-manager? Almost all Puppys use the Jwm-rox combo; there are a couple which were built to use the xfce-thunar combo. With rox as file-manager, ancillary window and file-managers can be installed via the Package Manager or loaded [See https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... /Desktops/] but as far as I know some operations will still revert to rox.
You might want to consider using the XFE (there's no 'C') file-manager. It's light-weight, efficient, can be installed into any Puppy and can be configured to display a tree-view with dual-panes. See https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 101#p42101 for a screenshot of that configuration.
There was a great set of tools for modifying almost anything relating to Puppy: remastering its core applications and/or adding a module which would become a part of your operating system: nicOS-Utiity-Suite. But its opening page and link to the application has been deleted without explanation. 
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 983#p12983. I discovered that when I tried to reference it here and have asked why.
IIRC, there are alternatives I'll have to hunt for. All Puppys have a remaster application built-in which is not as easy to use. But you may not have to use any. When you make any changes you make --settings, customizations, installed applications-- and want to preserve them you create at shut-down either a SaveFile or SaveFolder. SaveFolder expand as you install stuff, while SaveFiles are a 'block' device of specific size you can increase (requires a re-boot) but can't decrease. Their contents will have priority over conflicting components of Puppy. Both SaveFiles and SaveFolders can simply be copied anywhere, such as the flash drive. On boot-up Puppy tests for their presence.
Ditto what bigpup asked, which 32 bit Puppy? There are several and each is different. But all have this in common. The iso you downloaded contains several READ-ONLY files and file-systems which will be written to a storage media: CD/DVD, USB-Key or Hard-drive. It will include a file-system with the name puppy_Version_Version#.sfs, e.g. puppy_upupbb_19.03.sfs. That file-system contains the window-manager, the file-manager and all the applications its creator considered essential. Your Puppy MAY include either or both a file-system beginning adrv or ydrv, e.g. adrv_upupbb_19.03.sfs. [Some puppys have other ancillary file-systems]. These can contain anything, but usually have other applications a user may want but weren't considered necessary. On boot-up, these file-systems are 'merged in RAM' and the user provided the option to save changes, including user-installed applications, in a SaveFile or SaveFolder. On subsequent boot-ups, the Save is mounted and its contents will have the highest priority. Your running system has this order of priorities, with any conflicting contents in file-systems of lower priorities being 'ignored'. From highest to lowest:
1. current contents of RAM --changes you've made but have not as yet Saved.
2. Savefile or SaveFolder.
3. contents of adrv.
4. contents of ydrv.
5. puppy_Version_Version#.
Every Puppy includes a Remaster application. What it does is combine the contents of the '2' with '5', overwriting the contents of '5' if there's a conflict. [Puppys have a Menu>Setup>Remove Builtins application you can use before remastering to entirely eliminate an application]. However, in the absence of the Utility-Suite, I recommend using Shinobar's RemasterX. You'll find a link to it here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 178#p80178. It does the same thing, but in a more convenient, less error-prone manner.
The problem is that remastering doesn't change adrv or ydrv which would still have priority. RemasterX, however, was published before the use of adrvs and ydrvs became common. The ISO it will create, by default, will NOT include them. Which is great 
unless some program you want happened to be in an adrv or ydrv 
. IIRC, before the final step --to have RemasterX generate an ISO-- you have the opportunity to add anything you want to the 'work-folder' RemasterX uses while building the remaster and will write to the ISO.
Things are much easier if you've booted from a WRITABLE usb-key rather than a READ-ONLY CD/DVD. You can delete/move adrvs and ydrvs before booting up so that you will know if you need to install anything before remastering, or including it in the ISO you are creating.
I was able to get Puppy Linux installed on a flash drive. I initially thought I would require applications like Thunar but discovered MMview was already installed.
Bigpup:
The iso I used is: S15Pup32-22.12+1-T.iso.
Mikeslr:
I really dislike rox but it is growing on me. MMview works well enough that I don't require Thunar.
Remastering/reconfiguring is interesting but a more pressing need is using the "Download packages (no install)" option of Puppy Package Manager to download an app and its dependencies, on my Puppy Linux VM, and transferring the .txz files to my offline Dell for installation. Though I would not install "smtube" on my offline Puppy Linux system, it demonstrates lots, 170MB, of .txz files are downloaded. I would expect the Puppy Package Manager would generate some sort of installation shell script. Any idea on how the .txz files are installed?
Fantastic overview of the file system layout, remastering, and layering priority - thank you 
I have adrv, fdrv, and zdrv files in my variant. When I tried to click on them in my VM, there was a popup stating they can be uncompressed and recompressed using unsquashfs and mksquashfs. That popup also stated you can do a full HD installation without the layered file system. There seems to be several installers in Puppy Linux. Do you know which one is used to do the non-layered file system full HD installation?
Is it possible to use that installer or another to install Puppy Linux to a flash drive without the layered file system?
It seems the OS would start quicker without the layered file system or minimally compressed (gzip -1) layers though the distribution size would increase.
Haven't had breakfast yet so will only address the smtube '.txz' issue. I'm not familiar with the smtube you downloaded. But 'txz' is a packaging wrapper technique. When an application has several parts to avoid having to download each separately they are placed in a specifically named folder and an archive of it created. To use the application you download the archive and extract it using UExtract, pExtract or Archiver. You then move the extracted folder where ever you want.
When Mikewalsh creates portables he includes a script to start the application and another to create Menu-Entries. But the smtube I have wasn't built by Mike. There's a symlink to its executable used to start it from wherever I've placed it. I have to file-browse to it and Left-click the symlink. I'd have to create my own menu entry mechanism.
Well, about your other questions. The simple --but incomplete answer-- is that Puppys aren't built to be completely functional when not frugally installed. It's size on storage will increase by a factor of 3. And as you are running Puppy from a USB-Key, the gain in speed at boot-up will not be significant. There will be no gain at all in the time it takes to open applications after boot-up. In fact, it will be slower as Puppy will have to copy each of an applications then needed files into RAM from the USB-Key before they can be used.
I think your frugal install currently works in the following way. On boot-up, adrv, fdrv, and zdrv are copied into RAM in their compressed state, then decompressed. Actions in RAM are 15+ times faster than reading/writing to USB-Keys. The decompressed files are held in RAM-Cache. Files from RAM-Cache are copied into Active-RAM when needed, dropped when not.
Don't ask me why after decompression the compressed adrv, fdrv and zdrv aren't deleted. Maybe dimkr knows. Or maybe they aren't decompressed merely their contents being read and what appear to be folders of decompressed files merely a means to show what can be read.
You can limit the amount of files copied into RAM on boot-up --and thus the time it takes-- by adding the 'nocopy' command to the boot arguments.
Using grub4dos, there's a line that starts with the word "kernel" and continues often ending with pfix=fsck. grub uses the same format and commands, but starts the line with "linux", Adding 'nocopy' under grub you'd get something like this:
linux /jammy64jr/vmlinuz psubdir=/jammy64jr pmedia=usbflash pfix=fsck,nocopy
Of course, as noted above, running applications would take longer since Puppy would often have to read files from storage into RAM.
p.s. There's another way to redirect web-cache under firefox and maybe floorp. I've forgotten the command used. But you can enter that command in firefox's URL box, then manually edit setting of the location of profiles and cache to somewhere under /mnt.
Even when using Mike's firefox portable firefox will create these hidden folders: /root/.mozilla and /root/.cache/mozilla. [Left-Click Rox's "Eye" to show hidden files/folders]. But they will remain empty as profiles are redirected from the former and web-cache from the latter.
Mike. Great info Thank you
It seems much is excluded from Puppy Linux leading to that 3x install size factor. It probably is better to just wait a bit longer to have that blazing speed after bootup. The curation effort is quite astounding that so much functionality has been compressed into such a small distro. That boot 'nocopy' argument looks interesting. I was actually going to ask about preventing the loading of adrv, fdrv, and zdrv files - some config must control this.
Attached is a link to an image of downloading smtube using Puppy Package Manager. Note the 30 downloaded packages, .txz files. In the image you can see that when I click on the smtube****.txz I'm prompted by pupzip to allow the Package Manger to install smtube. It does indeed install that single package, shows up in the menu, but it does not run as the other 29 required packages are not installed.
Does the Puppy Package Manager generate a shell script that runs each of these packages in the reqiured order? Maybe users just need to run each package in any order and it will work?
https://i.postimg.cc/8C6Hxhyj/smtube-do ... stall1.gif
THANKS!
Puppy offering to install txz packages. Repeating bigpup's question early on: Which Puppy? Is it a 'Slacko'? I almost always use a Puppy based on debian or Ubuntu. Packages for those are either '.pets' or '.debs'. So didn't realize Puppy Package Manager could handle txz.
Your screenshot shows at the Top-Right side of Puppy Package Manager is set to Download Packages. Click its 'Down Arrow' and select "Auto Install". That should download and install not only smtube but all its dependencies. The operative word is "should". Puppy only knows what its binary-compatible distro thinks are dependencies. Compatible does not equal identical: Puppy may not have included components packagers for the binary-compatible knew were always present in the binary-compatible. So, let me tell you about PaDS, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 6355#p6355 and ListDD. ListDD may already be installed. If not, you can find it from here, viewtopic.php?p=3699#p3699.
Having installed PaDS, if you just download (no install) all the packages and place them in a named folder, eg smtube, Right-Click the folder and select "Combine to SFS" from the pop-up Menu, PaDS will combine all the packagers and create an SFS (eg smtube.sfs) at /root. Move the SFS out of /root -- so it won't be deleted-- Right-Click it and select SFS-Load. Restart-x for Puppy to re-catalog. If 'smtube' doesn't appear on the Menu, look for its desktop file in /usr/share/applications, open that in a text editor and see what Exec= shows as its executable. Open a terminal and type the executable. It will either run or the terminal will tell you something is wrong/missing. If missing, select Menu>filesystem>pfind, enter the name of the executable and select "System files". Usually the executable is in /usr/bin, but not always. File-browse to the executable Right-Click it and select ListDD from the pop-up Menu. Then click the 'Missing' button on the bottom. ListDD will show you all the dependencies it then knows are missing. Find them (PPM or pkgs.org). Place them in the smtube folder you created and run PaDS again. Repeat until all dependencies are satisfied -- or quit when you realize they never will be.
about preventing the loading of adrv, fdrv, and zdrv files. It's easy to get rid of these. Just add a 'X' or other letter to the beginning of their names and reboot. The catch is that while adrv usually can be discarded --it holds 'ancillary' not necessary applications-- fdrv and zdrv can't. Zdrv hold drivers and fdrv holds firmware. Without the drivers and firmware an operating system needs to communicate with your computer's hardware you don't have a functioning keyboard, mouse, wifi-adaptor or monitor, etc.
Theoretically it's possible to find out EXACTLY what drivers and firmware you need, copy and install just those, then discard fdrv and zdrv. But we don't have the tools to do that. See, viewtopic.php?p=78826#p78826. And it's not likely anyone will take the time to create them. On boot-up Puppy copies the contents of fdrv and zdrv into RAM-Cache. As files are needed they are then moved to Active-RAM. When no longer needed they are dropped out of Active-RAM. Puppy handles RAM very efficiently. See viewtopic.php?t=692. Note that LibreOffice is a 275 Mb package. With LibreWriter in use, Active RAM for other activities was only reduced by 46 Mbs.
Hi Mike,
Bigpup asked for the iso name, S15Pup32-22.12+1-T.iso. I responded with the name but it was a bit unclear as I also responded to you in the same response. Just in case the iso name is insufficient I found I could run a couple commands for additional version info:
# cat /etc/*release*
NAME=Puppy
VERSION="22.12"
ID=puppy_s15pup32
VERSION_ID=22.12
PRETTY_NAME="S15Pup32 22.12"
ANSI_COLOR="0;34"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:puppy:puppy_linux:22.12"
HOME_URL="http://puppylinux.com/"
SUPPORT_URL="http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE"
# uname -a
Linux relikee 5.10.215 #1 SMP Sat Apr 20 10:51:31 UTC 2024 i686
Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700HQ CPU @ 2.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
The Puppy Package Manager "Auto Install" option you described does install apps without issue on my Puppy Linux VM. I was using the ""Download Packages" option to identify problems I might encounter with installing applications requiring package dependencies on my offline Puppy Linux system.
Appears PaDS and ListDD are the path to create a squash file system for LibreOffice and/or GnuCash which I might eventually use in my offline system. It seems creating a script to install an app and its dependencies is a better course of action until you consider the installed apps and dependencies would be stored in your save file and would always be loaded. I'm guessing that like adrv, renaming your application sfs would prevent it from being loaded in the event you rarely use the software leading to faster load times and better performance in most cases. So well thought out.
And thanks for the info on excluding the loading of adrv, fdrv, and zdrv files along with why fdrv, and zdrv are critical. I’m sure I would have wasted a lot of time trying to boot a system without essential drivers and firmware.
Wonderful introduction to these tools and their use. Thank you
You need to read this about installing additional software:
viewtopic.php?t=1819
S15Pup32 is not getting a lot of support on this forum for compiling software packages for it.
It is using a version of Slackware as the source for it's core Linux files and programs.
The package manager has to get software form Slackware repositories.
Slackware is not a Linux OS that is really into having programs packaged for specific versions.
They seem to want software you add to require compiling for the specific Slackware version.
I suggest you try using BookwormPup32 to use on this computer.
viewtopic.php?t=10087
It is Debian Linux based for core Linux files and programs.
It can use deb and Puppy pet packages for installing added software.
Need to understand that 32bit Linux software is on it's way out.
Most Linux software is now only being developed as 64bit.
So you may not be able to find some programs in 32bit unless it is an older version of the program.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
CloisteredNeuron wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 5:26 amI’m attempting to install Puppy Linux 32 onto a flash drive for a Dell from 2004. I need to keep this system completely offline. Is there a Linux tool which will create an archive with all the application and dependency files required for an application like Thunar File Manager?
I may not understand exactly what you want.
But Puppy Linux installed on a USB flash drive as a live install or a frugal install works as you seem to be asking.
All added software installed, settings, configurations, etc......, any changes are, stored in a save file or folder, that you make on first shutdown.
You place this save on the USB flash drive.
Everything is only on the flash drive.
The save file or folder is what you are calling an archive.
Note:
Make the save and boot using it, before you start adding software. With out a save to use everything has to stay in RAM.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
With 32bit computers.
The exact make and model of the computer would help. (we can look up the specs)
Exact specs if you know them.
There are some 32bit Puppy versions that may be specifically better to use on this computer.
There are some specially made Puppy versions for specific 32bit hardware setups.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
The trick to using Rox file manager is open two Rox windows.
Just click on the desktop file icon twice.
In one navigate to what you want to look at.
In the other one navigate to where you want to put something.
Drag and drop between the two windows.
Any item in the Rox window has a right click menu.
Depends on what it is as to what options will be in this menu.
In Rox delete is delete, it is gone.
Rox does not have a trash unless it got added as an option in the right click menu. (some Puppy versions have that)
But it is still going into the Puppy trash.
Puppy uses a special desktop icon for trash.
Drag and drop stuff on it to put it in trash.
Right click on it to get a menu of options.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
Thanks!
I checked out the Puppy Linux - BookwormPup32 - Introduction video (jppZt5PKIPk). As I prefer downloading/installing compiled code I can definitely see some personal benefits with Debian. BTW when I searched puppy on distrowatch it took me here:
distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=puppy
• 2022-12-10: Distribution Release: Puppy Linux 22.12
Regarding your 5/21/24 4:08AM post let me expand upon, " I need to keep this system completely offline.".
Now that I have the flash drive of the offline Puppy Linux system configured, I've started using it to process sensitive PII and security documents. In the future I may want to add additional software to the system such as LibreOffice or GnuCash. Due to security measures in place, I cannot connect this system to the Internet so the Puppy Package Manager cannot download and install applications such as LibreOffice or GnuCash. I was hoping a work around for this was to use the Puppy Package Manager to download the packages (using Puppy running on a VM) which comprise a given applications along with a script which would sequentially run the packages in an order which would allow the applications to be properly installed.
Regarding your 5/21/24 4:13AM post, the physical machine is a Dell server from 2004 with 4GB of RAM with a Pentium 4 2.8Ghz processor (CPU Mark of about 520). If I recall correctly, it is a Dell PowerEdge SC420 - image (ebay.com/itm/174483344299).
Regarding your 5/21/24 4:26AM post, two Rox windows is definitely your friend. Thanks so much for sharing all this info and if you want to point users to a nice tutorial on Rox maybe take a look at YouTuber runwiththedolphin. He has a video entitled, "Rox-filer - Options, options, and more options" (wCfg7zoVQEQ). After watching that video and finding Puppy also includes the MMview file explorer I actually deleted my save file which included Thunar and reconfigured the system. Rox kinda grows on you
Thanks for supporting this effort which keeps equipment out of the landfill It is amazing how an "enlightened" company like MS will NOT allow users with technically viable hardware to upgrade to Windows 11. In my case I have a notebook which simultaneously runs Windows 10 host along with a Windows 10 VM and a Windows 11 VM. This notebook purchased at a physical MS store in a local mall in late 2016 is NOT allowed to upgrade to Windows 11. In 17 months, the installed Windows 10 will NOT be supported. Customer alienation - it is nuts.
If using this computer with Puppy Linux and never having it able to connect to the internet.
To add software programs.
You could use another computer to download the software package(s) to a USB flash drive.
Install by plugging this USB into the computer.
If you download deb or Puppy pet packaged software.
All you have to do in Puppy to install it is left click on the deb or pet package.
For Puppy and compatibility.
Best if you look on this forum Additional Software section for programs to use.
The stuff posted there is known to work on Puppy Linux.
This section of the forum is the best place to find versions of Puppy:
viewforum.php?f=177
There are some info topics here you need to read:
viewforum.php?f=184
We are presently trying to get DistroWatch updated with new info about Puppy Linux.
So this forum is a better place to look in.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
Thank you Bigpup
I was trying to use Puppy Package Manager's "Download package" option (https://postimg.cc/069DwJ1s) as shown in the image. For the application shown, it contained 30 individual packages with a .txz file type. The installed PupZip did install the clicked on .txz but not all the other 29 required .txz files. It sounds like .deb and Puppy pets get around this.
Thank you
There is most likely something you are doing wrong using Puppy Package Manager (PPM).
Looking at that image of PPM.
You have it selected to just download the stuff.
Should be an option in the drop down menu to auto install and step by step install.
Those should download and install everything.
Auto install is best to select.
Did you ever read this:
viewtopic.php?t=1819
.
.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
Yep. I read viewtopic.php?t=1819.
I can’t connect the computer to the Internet so I need to download and install apps. I did try the “step by step install”. It seems that it does the same thing as download. That is neither option generates a script to install all of the packages. I tried this option with smtube but it seems a dependency, mariadb, is no longer available for download so I tried “step by step install” using GVim. Image showing the stages of the install:
https://i.postimg.cc/v8Wrst56/Puppy-GVim.gif
Clicking on the downloaded GVim package will install that one package but not all of the downloaded dependencies.
Seems there is no way of generating an install script.
Thanks so much for looking into this Path forward is to just recreate the OS flash drive whenever I need apps.
Use auto install option when using Puppy Package Manager!
That will auto install what you selected and any dependencies it needs.
If the download is coming from a repository that is not for the specific Puppy version.
A repository of the Linux OS the Puppy version is based on.
You are downloading from the official repository for Slackware 15.0
That repository may not have all the needed dependencies.
Because they should already be in the other OS.
Sorry but that is a limitation, when Puppy Package Manager is accessing none Puppy specific repositories.
Then you have to go hunting for what it did not install and get it someplace else.
Slackware packages never have worked that good in Puppy versions.
Example:
S15pup
That is why I suggested you using a Puppy version that is not based on a Slackware OS.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
If this is what you want to install.
This may help you:
viewtopic.php?t=315
Welcome to Linux Software!
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
If you have a Puppy with apt (like BookwormPup32) you can download .deb packages without installing them, through the terminal:
Code: Select all
apt-get --print-uris --yes install thunar | cut -f 2 -d \' | grep ^http | while read x; do wget $x || break; done
(And don't be surprised if an application installed through PPM has missing dependencies, it doesn't resolve dependencies correctly)
You really need a 2nd USB-Key which will boot up the same Puppy you have on the Key/CD/DVD which will always be off-line. You can use the 2nd Key just to download applications and their required dependencies, repackage them, then transfer your creation to your 'off-line' Key. PaDS, viewtopic.php?p=6355#p6355 will combine many packages into one SFS you can load-on-the-fly. If you need an installable pet, Right-Click the SFS, select view, copy the contents from the view into a folder, Right-Click the folder and select dir2pet.
Even if your computer only has one available USB-port, you can still transfer files. If you have a 2nd boot listing with the boot-argument pfix=ram, after bootup Puppy will be entirely in RAM. You can unplug the Key, plug in your 2nd Key and access its files.
Sample pfix=ram line:
linux /bionic64/vmlinuz psubdir=/bionic64 pmedia=ataflash pfix=ram
Yah. Rox grows on you once as you discover it quirks. https://rox.sourceforge.net/Manual/Manual/Manual.html, And while MMView is good, so is pfind. Using pfind, note the choice you have at the Top-Left. Right-Click a directory and select 'Search with pfind' from the pop-up menu and it will only search that directory and its subdirectories. "All files" will search all mounted partitions. "Advanced" provides the option have the text within a file read. After pfind does its search it will present a list of all files meeting the search criteria. Clicking a binary on the list will open that application. Clicking a data file will open it in the default application for that data-type.
But, IMHO, xfe, with its Dual-pane+Tree view is still the best option until you've mastered rox. See the 2nd screenshot here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=4513