Vanilla Dpup 9.3.0 beta7

[dimkr]

https://github.com/vanilla-dpup/unstabl ... x86_64-9.3
https://github.com/vanilla-dpup/unstabl ... up-x86-9.3

9.3.x is a stepping stone to 10.0.0. It's built from Debian 11 packages and contains the new features that will go into the final 10.0.0 release (which will be based on Debian 12, some time in 2023), but on top of the same foundation as 9.2.x.

Changes compared to 9.2.x:

• The kernel is now built from the Debian 11 kernel sources and tracks it on a bi-weekly basis, instead of tracking 5.10.x bugfix releases: if Debian waits with a security or stability fix that may introduce regressions or needs extra QA, so does Vanilla Dpup. This makes Vanilla Dpup easier to maintain, increases stability and increases Debian compatibility.

• To prepare for future EOL of aufs for kernel 5.10.x, aufs is gone and replaced with overlay. Unlike aufs, a big third-party kernel patch that breaks when it conflicts with fixes that went into kernel 5.10.x, overlay is integrated into the kernel source tree. Also, most production-grade applications (Docker is a good example) have migrated to overlay long time ago, so overlay is mature and more people depend on it and participate in bug reporting and fixing. However, due to differences between overlay and aufs and design limitations, RAM consumption with PUPMODE 13 is higher, saving is much slower, 9.2.x save files and folders are incompatible with 9.3.x (but packages that worked 9.2.x will keep working), but it doesn't suffer from the data loss issues caused by aufs and snapmergepuppy, and overall responsiveness should be better under PUPMODE 13 on computers with enough RAM.

• Limited support for dynamic SFS loading (in >= beta4), under PUPMODE 5 (first boot) or 13 (pmedia=bootflash) only.

• All built-in SFSs are now zstd-compressed, increasing their size by about 10%, but CPU consumption during decompression is much, much lower. It should boot slightly faster.

• BootFlash is back and supports BIOS (with syslinux), UEFI (with efilinux), with either one big FAT32 partition or a small FAT32 alongside a large F2FS partition, plus microcode updates.

• More preinstalled applications: abiword, gnumeric, gparted, mpv, xournalpp and putty are now preinstalled.

• weechat is updated.

• Claws Mail replaces Sylpheed, because the former supports GTK+ 3 and seems to be a more active project.

• Support for Debian packages in PPM is disabled. This confuses users who have to choose between two package managers, and PPM often fails to install packages or even breaks the system.

• Flatpak is now preinstalled and the Flathub repo is preconfigured. Applications installed via Flatpak can be huge and resource intensive (especially when application x uses one runtime and application y uses another), but they're always the latest version and isolated from the rest of the OS. This is a good, easy and safe way to install the latest version of an application, especially for big applications and things like games. Flatpak itself is pretty small and doesn't do anything if unused.

• DKMS, the infrastructure for building out-of-tree drivers like NVIDIA and Broadcom drivers, is now built-in to the main SFS, making it much easier to get hardware that needs proprietary drivers to work, at the cost of extra size.

• pTheme is replaced with jwm_config and the legacy Puppy theme tools from the 4.x era. pTheme is very intrusive: this new-old setup is easier to replace with something like JWMDesk, which many users seem to prefer. Appearance-related settings are less centralized, making them easier to fine-tune, at the cost of more clicks in more windows.

• By default, the tray is at the bottom and the desktop contains the traditional Puppy desktop icons. Users seem to prefer this from what I see.

• The default cursor is black, not white, for improved contrast and better consistency with applications that don't follow the cursor theme.

• The Blueman tray icon is disabled, because it's RAM intensive.

• Translations (the nlsx SFS) are now included in the ISO. It looks like Vanilla Dpup is popular among Spanish speakers, and most applications in Vanilla Dpup have Spanish translations: now, you can select Spanish in Quick Setup and you're good to go. Users who don't need translations can remove the nlsx SFS from their installation.

• The default font is now Noto and not DejaVu. It covers more languages and it's more visually consistent. (nlsx includes CJK fonts.)

• Documentation (not just man pages) is now built-in to the ISO (the docx SFS). Users who don't need documentation can remove this SFS from their installations.

• Vanilla Dpup now supports /etc/environment: this is a place where you can define environment variables seen by all applications started after login.

• The default hardware clock mode is local time, not UTC - that's Puppy's tradition and what Windows uses. Some early 9.2.x users asked for UTC as the default, to fix Puppy<>other distros (which use UTC) conflicts, but it looks like more Vanilla Dpup users also use other Puppy family distros, which use local time, and need to deal with Puppy<>Puppy conflicts.

Stick to 9.2.x if you need something stable. This beta is released to collect feedback and generate a new list of issues that need to be fixed.

[Keef]

Downloaded the 64bit version to give it a try out. Manual frugal install to internal SSD.
Dell Precision M4600
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2540M CPU @ 2.60GHz
8gb RAM
Radeon graphics.

Not done anything other than basic settings, but it runs fast and smoothly, and everything as it should be after a reboot.
I'll try and break it later.

[Sofiya]

Not done anything other than basic settings, but it runs fast and smoothly, and everything as it should be after a reboot.
I'll try and break it later.

[Clarity]

Is there a reason WoofCE has chosen, in what appears as old software with missing feature(s), for user use in new Pups or is it an oversight for this single component?

Old version missing useful component

Gparted missing component.jpg (116.82 KiB) Viewed 1626 times

[dimkr]

Is there a reason WoofCE has chosen

woof-CE isn't sentient and doesn't "choose" what to do, it has configuration files. The dpup package list did not contain gpart, and I added it in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 28377ce309. If you saw the same thing in some other Puppy it's just coincidence.

[Feek]

I like less desktop icons. The "Puppy desktop" setting seems to be missing a button to set the layout and position of the desktop icons (Traditional, Minimal, Trash icon only, ...). I edited /root/Choices/Rox-Filer/PuppyPin manually and restarted X.
Later I installed JWMdesk where desktop icons can be set without problem.
Otherwise everything seems to be running smoothly so far.

[dimkr]

I like less desktop icons. The "Puppy desktop" setting seems to be missing a button to set the layout and position of the desktop icons (Traditional, Minimal, Trash icon only, ...). I edited /root/Choices/Rox-Filer/PuppyPin manually and restarted X.

Going back to pTheme is definitely an option. Let's wait for more feedback.

Thanks @Feek!

[TurtleX]

I just did a quick install. Coming from Garuda and Artix Linux, both Arch based.
First impressions. I've tried Jwm pups before and this is an improvement in the looks department.
Love how this Puppy can use apt-get out of the box.

Some Issues to report:
- Although I would prefer not to have the default desktop icons out of the box, I can easily remove them so that's not a problem.
- I tried loading the kernel header sfs but it didn't want to load with "Sfs-Load"
- I just wanted to see if steam would work on this, but got stuck after installing nvidia driver:
I used the command line "apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree" and it told me there was an issue with the neuveau driver, but a reboot would fix the issue. After I rebooted my screen resolution got downgraded from 1920x1080 to 1024x768.

The following is the terminal text output.
~$ xrandr
xrandr: Failed to get size of gamma for output default
Screen 0: minimum 1024 x 768, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1024 x 768
default connected 1024x768+0+0 0mm x 0mm
1024x768 76.00*

Not sure where to go from here. Some google searches point links to modprobe issues, but this is beyond my experience to repair.

[rockedge]

@TurtleX Hello and to the kennels.

I think this is a kernel, module and firmware issue. I would try and switch kernels and see how that improves the situation.

Odd the SFS kernel source package did not load. I do not have this system installed at this moment and I'm not that experienced with Vanilla Dpup.

See what @dimkr thinks about a kernel swap or what insight he has on some fixes for problems on "the list"

[dimkr]

- I tried loading the kernel header sfs but it didn't want to load with "Sfs-Load"

First, dynamic SFS loading is unsupported, as I wrote and even emphasized: only at boot time.

Second: why did you try to load the kernel sources SFS? The kbuild SFS, which is much smaller, is already part of the ISO and sufficient to install all non-free drivers I tried.

there was an issue

What was the issue? Do you have any screenshot with the error? Can you share the output of dmesg?

(And please don't do any kernel swapping, you're almost guaranteed to run into severe issues if you use any kernel except the extremely Debian 11 compatible kernel used by the 9.3.x beta)

[bigpup]

I used the command line "apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree" and it told me there was an issue with the nouveau driver, but a reboot would fix the issue. After I rebooted my screen resolution got downgraded from 1920x1080 to 1024x768.

This is because the install process, when you rebooted, has disabled the nouveau driver and the computer is using a very basic graphics driver now.

Try running the apt install command again.

Nvidia drivers can not be installed when the nouveau driver is being used.
The computer first needs to be booted not using the nouveau driver.
Then it can install the Nvidia driver and set the computer to use it.

Nouveau driver is the Linux generic driver for Nvidia hardware, that provides general support specially for Nvidia hardware.

[TurtleX]

I tried to load the kernel source, becuase I thought the nvidia driver might need it during install, but I guess it didn't. The sfs was in the github site anlong with Dpup 9.3 beta, so I downloaded them both.
Anyhow, after I installed the nvidia driver, and rebooted, my screen resolution got reduced and xrandr does not see 1920x1080 as a vaild setting so I cannot resize it with xrandr.

[TurtleX]

Ok ty for the information regarding not using the nouveau driver, I will delete the save file and start over.

[dimkr]

I tried to load the kernel source, becuase I thought the nvidia driver might need it during install

Did you read viewtopic.php?p=73595?

[TurtleX]

Hi, now I understand why the SFS did not load, once again, thanks. But I am confused why SFS-Load is installed if it is not supported in Dpup. Anyway, im not sure how to insert images in those img tags, but here is the text output, after I installed the nvidia driver:

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Conflicting nouveau kernel module loaded
The free nouveau kernel module is currently loaded and conflicts with the nvidia non-free kernel module.
The easiest way to fix this is to reboot the machine once the installation has finished

The problem is not fixed after reboot. Is there a special method in puppy to disable the nouveau driver? I tried adding "nouveau.modeset=0" to my grub config, but that did not work.
I also tried editing /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf as well as adding a new file /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf. But changes were wiped out after a reboot.

[TurtleX]

Thanks dmkir and Bigpup for your help. I will try not to bother you too much more on this subject since it it not crucial getting Steam to run. After all it runs fine for me on Artix, my main gaming OS, and Garuda, my OS for practically everything else. I used Puppy years ago when I had an older PC. When I built a newer PC (although it's old now..haha), I switched to Arch-based Linux/Windows dual-boot install. Windows is still superior for gaming in most cases, but the gap is steadily closing. Anyhow, lately I've been distro-hopping for several weeks before I finally settled on Artix/Garuda. In truth, the setup meets all my needs. I just thought it would be fun to try frugal installs of Puppy mainly out of nastalgia. Fossapup looks very much the same as puppies from 5-10 years ago, although I like all of the Jwm gui tools for theme setting that cannot be found in other distros. I'm pleasantly pleased that puppy boots on a non-ssd where I've installed it, and it almost boots as fast as my other Os' which are installed on SSD drives. The thing that stands out with this Vanilla Dpup is that I can use apt command via the terminal. Something I cannot do in Fossapup. Also, the menu system looks more simplified and cleaner. Having said that, I don't like the old menu systems that have a Windows 98-ish look. I just install xfce4-appfinder and use that as my menu instead. Compatibility with Debian using apt looks promising, keep up the good work! This Dpup has some innovative features that hopefully will be integrated into future Mainstream pups. In Fossapup, there is a Nvidia SFS and Steam SFS. The Nvidia driver worked right away and Steam seemed to work until it reached the Steam login window, which was all black, so I could not login. I will keep trying when I have more time to tinker.

[TurtleX]

Hi again. I just read over my last post and want to clarify some errors I made. The Nvidia driver I used in Fossapup was not and SFS, it was a pet, downloaded in the quickpet app. Steam was also a pet. The SFS I needed to add was "32bit-compatibilty-fossa64.sfs" needed for steam. I apologize for the inaccurate info from last post.

[Ramachandra Iyer]

Not booting from USB live on HP Laptop. However, USB is booting on old laptop. I would like to test vanila 9.3 from internal nvme HD. However got black screen while loading through Limine boot loader.

[dimkr]

But I am confused why SFS-Load is installed if it is not supported in Dpup.

It's used to queue SFSs for loading after a reboot.

But changes were wiped out after a reboot.

Blacklisting using /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf should work just fine, if you save the changes before you reboot.

[TurtleX]

Blacklisting using /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf should work just fine, if you save the changes before you reboot.

Sorry, I tried multiple times to confirm that changes to that file are not persistent upon save. Other changes work fine, such as changing theme, wallpaper, installing apps.
Perhaps there is some other program running at startup that are making changes to the file or folder? I'm not sure, just a thought. I found the attach files option, which I didn't notice before. The image is of a fairly fresh copy. This is after deleting the first savefile and starting over. I have not installed the nvidia driver yet here. Trying to disable nouveau first before I do. All I did in fossapup was install the nvidia pet and everything was fine after reboot. Perhaps the debian version of nvidia is not compatable?
I was thinking of trying to compile the nvidia driver instead, but have not done so in years, so I have to restudy the parameters

edit: I deleted the attached image, since it was not displaying properly

[dimkr]

Perhaps there is some other program running at startup that are making changes to the file or folder?

Yes, the init script modifies /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf. You need to add nouveau to SKIPLIST in /etc/rc.d/MODULESCONFIG - this can be done using bootmanager.

[TurtleX]

Ok, thanks. I will try that and report back later. On a side note, I'm curious to why my attached image is not displaying correctly. Is there a specific image format other than .png file that needs to be used?

[Sofiya]

On a side note, I'm curious to why my attached image is not displaying correctly. Is there a specific image format other than .png file that needs to be used?

Image files loaded through the Firefox browser are not displayed, regardless of which format they are

[TurtleX]

Thank you Sofiya! That is good to know.

@dmkir

I added nouveau to the skiplist and reboot. Got a reduced resolution screen. I then installed the nvidia driver with the command

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apt install nvidia-driver firmware-misc-nonfree

I rebooted, but the resoultion did not revert back to 1920x1080. I checked the report-video app. Since a screenshot is not availiable right now, here is the text from /tmp/report-video

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VIDEO REPORT: Vanilla Dpup, version 9.3.0-beta3
Processor:  Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz

X.Org X Server 1.20.11
X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0

Chip description:
 
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation TU117 [GeForce GTX 1650] [10de:1f82] (rev a1)
	Subsystem: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd TU117 [GeForce GTX 1650] [1458:3fca]
	Kernel driver in use: nvidia
	Kernel modules: nvidia

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
  Modules requested to be loaded:       dbe 

Probing Xorg startup log file (/var/log/Xorg.0.log):
  Driver loaded (and currently in use): vesa
  Loaded modules: dbe evdev fb fbdevhw glx libinput nouveau nv shadow

Actual rendering on monitor:
  Resolution:  1024x768 pixels (271x203 millimeters)
  Depth:       24 planes

direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.4
OpenGL vendor string: Mesa/X.org
OpenGL renderer string: llvmpipe (LLVM 11.0.1, 256 bits)
OpenGL core profile version string: 4.5 (Core Profile) Mesa 20.3.5

I have confirmed the my blacklist.conf file has nouveau added to it. But report-video says that nvidia driver is in use, but why is nouveau still in the "Loaded modules"?
It is showing both nouveau and nv are loaded.

[dimkr]

nouveau and nv are userspace drivers, it's normal to have them loaded and unused.

[TurtleX]

nouveau and nv are userspace drivers, it's normal to have them loaded and unused.

Ok, I'm learning so much here. Since the nvidia driver is not currently working, is there an easy way of getting the nouveau driver loaded again without deleting my puppy savefile?
Do you think that the debian nvidia driver is simply not compatable? After all, in Fossapup, I just downloaded the pet and rebooted and it was fine. I imagine that Barry or another puppy member compiled that pet?

[dimkr]

The Debian package of the driver should work just fine, but I don't have any NVIDIA GPU I can use to reproduce your problem and suggest a solution. Sorry.

[bigpuppyfan]

dimkr, would you consider reinstating aufs support in the future versions, since aufs was updated recently after all?

The lack of dynamic sfs loading is what may be an issue for some. For instance, if one all of a sudden need the devx / kernel sources, and does not want to quit the current session. Or if someone, like me, is running on pup mode 5 (for which I guess the only solution on overlayfs would be to rename the sfs to bdrv or cdrv, etc and reboot). Or if one downloads a snap package (which is mostly just an sfs that needs renaming)

ozsouth has been releasing kernels with support for both, so could possibly be just a question of having 2 initrd 's (within my ignorance)?

Thanks for all your work

[dimkr]

@bigpuppyfan You don't have to rename a SFS to load it - but yes, you will need this hack if you only use PUPMODE 5. Maybe this will change in the future: I've experimented with simulated dynamic SFS loading using a RAM layer, but this works only under PUPMODE 5 and 13 and introduces several issues.

My plan is to drop aufs support after 9.2.x, unless it's guaranteed to receive maintenance updates throughout the lifetime of longterm kernels like 5.10.x. Sadly, this is not likely to happen if the world has moved to overlay. When aufs breaks it's impossible to build a Puppy kernel, so including it as an option is ... not an option.

[TurtleX]

Hello, I stumbled across this webpage https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=97950 and am requesting if this feature could be added as standard.
Disregard the old info about wmctrl. All you need to do is add the following lines to /.jwm/jwmrc-personal and you get windows-snap functions.

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<Key mask="AC" key="Left">maxleft</Key>
<Key mask="AC" key="Right">maxright</Key>
<Key mask="AC" key="Up">maxtop</Key>
<Key mask="AC" key="Down">maxbottom</Key>

IMO, this is such a nice and handy feature, that should come standard, since it's so easy to implement, but not well-known enough by typical users for them to apply via the textfile.
After adding these 4 lines, then typing in" jwm -restart" in the terminal, the keybindings will be activated by using the Alt + Ctrl + Directional Keys.

EDIT: Wait! I see that you have something simialiar, already installed?!! I need to restest