Anyone working on JammyPup64?

[tosim]

Is there a group, or person, working on making a JammyPup64, or JammyDog32/64? And yes, I know, and have tried, the v made by Grey.

[ally]

https://archive.org/details/puppylinux?query=jammy

[Pikaxhu]

Hi, here is 32 bits one:

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=5799

Very stable one. Thanks to peebee.

Pika

[tosim]

Thanks to both of you. Ally-I forgot about exton, so thank you again.
Pika-I dl'd that one as soon as peebee made it available.

[thinkpadfreak]

I do not quite understand what tosim is trying to convey, but I am wondering why the development of a jammy64 based pup and a slackware (version 15) based pup, which are going to be official pups in the future, is not under way.

If the original developers can't continue the development for some reason, some other person might as well take it over, because we are the Puppy "team." I sort of worry about the future of Puppy Linux.

There may be a difference in opinions as to which puppy should be official, but judging from the existing official pups, a jammy based pup and a slackware based pup are going to be official.

(I am afraid Jammypup64 is not "additional software.")

[peebee]

There are JammyPup64 and Slackware-15 (both 32 & 64-bit) builds available on GitHub Woof-CE:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/actions

click build to see latest (they are updated at least once a week)

Only @01micko can decide when they become "official" releases

JammyPup32 will probably not become "official" as it is a hybrid build using both Ubuntu & Debian binaries as Ubuntu no longer fully supports 32-bit builds.

[LateAdopter]

But there are no files produced that can be downloaded.

dimkr's vanillapup builds have releases that you can download but the only releases for puppy are from 2021

[peebee]

But there are no files produced that can be downloaded.

dimkr's vanillapup builds have releases that you can download but the only releases for puppy are from 2021

You do have to have a GitHub account and be logged in - then links appear.....

[dimkr]

dimkr's vanillapup builds have releases that you can download but the only releases for puppy are from 2021

Vanilla Upup 22.04 is from 2022, and the links in https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=5290 are not broken. They point to releases (as opposed to, draft releases or development builds), so no GitHub login is needed to download.

(Vanilla Dpup 9.2.x is from 2022, too, and the links in https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=6105 are public and working, but it's not based on Ubuntu 22.04 packages.)

[LateAdopter]

Sorry, when I said puppy I was referring to the woof-ce releases for Slacko not your builds.

[thinkpadfreak]

It does not appear that the development of Slacko 8.x is advancing.
As for Jammypup64, there isn't even a thread related to its development. I know about Jammypup64 9.7b by Grey. I think it is fairly satisfactory for a test build.
I also know that Vanilla Upup is based on ubuntu jammy, and have been testing it recently. But it is not a standard Puppy, and dimkr says "It's not intended to replace any other Puppy."

[mikewalsh]

It does not appear that the development of Slacko 8.x is advancing.
As for Jammypup64, there isn't even a thread related to its development. I know about Jammypup64 9.7b by Grey. I think it is fairly satisfactory for a test build.
I also know that Vanilla Upup is based on ubuntu jammy, and have been testing it recently. But it is not a standard Puppy, and dimkr says "It's not intended to replace any other Puppy."

Um; o-kayyy....

I assume from this that you're one of those that absolutely MUST have the very newest of everything all the time. (Which is an awfully "unstable" place to inhabit, if you don't mind my saying so... ) You can't really expect to 'push' our Puppy devs into working on stuff they may not be ready for, just because YOU want it....now can you?

Anyway; what's to stop you from developing a 64-bit Slacko yourself? Or how about an Arch-based Puppy; rolling release, constantly "bang up-to-date"? Food for thought, perhaps? I don't think 01Micko has as much time to devote to Puppy development as he once did - change of circumstances at home, etc. Puppy devs fade away, and new ones come along to replace them.......and even Puppy devs have a life outside of Puppy, y'know?

Never ceases to amaze me, the amount of "carping" that comes from those incapable of doing any better themselves.....as though our devs were at their beck & call.

Mike.

[thinkpadfreak]

I assume from this that you're one of those that absolutely MUST have the very newest of everything all the time. (Which is an awfully "unstable" place to inhabit, if you don't mind my saying so... ) You can't really expect to 'push' our Puppy devs into working on stuff they may not be ready for, just because YOU want it....now can you?

Anyway; what's to stop you from developing a 64-bit Slacko yourself? Or how about an Arch-based Puppy; rolling release, constantly "bang up-to-date"? Food for thought, perhaps? I don't think 01Micko has as much time to devote to Puppy development as he once did - change of circumstances at home, etc. Puppy devs fade away, and new ones come along to replace them.......and even Puppy devs have a life outside of Puppy, y'know?

Never ceases to amaze me, the amount of "carping" that comes from those incapable of doing any better themselves.....as though our devs were at their beck & call.

I am afraid you are misunderstanding me in some ways.

All I can do for the puppy society is to test various pups and feed back.
I also publish some language packs and Japanized versions of pups in
The Puppy Linux Japanese Forum
https://sakurapup.com/forum1/

My favorite puppy is classical EasyPup by Barry, though It is not a puppy in the strict sense of the word. I do not necessarily like the newest.

I suggested above that some other person take over the development if the original developer can't continue it for some reason because we are the puppy "team."

People outside the puppy society will not know what is happening here. Some people may forget about puppy, thinking that a new version is not being developed any more. Though there are many pups in reality, official pups may be the only pups for some outsiders.

I just want to promote Puppy Linux.

[mikewalsh]

@thinkpadfreak :-

I don't think there's too much to worry about, in terms of how Puppy gets developed, either now, OR in the future. With "our Pup" being the kind of enthusiast distro she is, and with the plethora of development tools that have always been available, there's always going to be development of one sort or another going on.

We may even find a new Puppy being developed by someone completely outside the community, who doesn't even belong to the Forum....yet. Next-gen Puppy development may take a turn that surprises us all, y'know. Barry always did say that he preferred the "fluid nature" of the Puppy 'hive-mind', and trusted that the community would always rise to the occasion if, as & when necessary. And I've always felt that to be true myself.

I, too, promote Puppy everywhere I possibly can, because I feel there will always be a place for a lightweight distro like Puppy.....AND I think it's the next-best thing to sliced bread! (Some of the responses I get are definitely disparaging, it's true, but there's always more in the way of positive responses than there are negative ones. It's a good sign that the interest is still there.)

In a way, I'm like you. I'll always keep a weather-eye on the newest Puppies, and try them out from time to time, but I much prefer the stability of a Pup that's old enough to have got all the bugs worked out, and is rock-solid stable.....yet is still sufficiently new to be able to run most of the available up-to-date software. To me, that's the best of both worlds. And I love exploring the Puppy 'archives'; there's some real gems out there, available just for the digging. My own 'go-to' Pups are usually between 3-5 yrs old, and are upgraded accordingly. That's the 'sweet spot' for me.

I also feel sorry for a lot of people that they're not prepared to take that "leap of faith", take the plunge, and discover for themselves just how amazingly flexible and innovative Puppy can be.....along with all the benefits of its modular nature, and its "secret weapon".....the save-file/folder. We humans being what we are, however, we're largely creatures of habit, and tend to become stuck in our ways (simply because that's the path of least resistance for so many).

Mike.

[dimkr]

I intend to wind down Vanilla Upup 22.04 development in the near future (so I can devote more time to the next major release of Vanilla Dpup, based on Debian 12).

After https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/3293, the default jammy64 configuration in woof-CE should be very easy to adapt into a worthy successor to Fossapup. Anyone can do this, and all the building blocks are already there. I think the official/unofficial thing doesn't matter at all: an "unofficial" Puppy is always better than nothing, and it doesn't matter if it's "unofficial" if that's what people use and where innovation happens. Puppy is a do-ocracy: it needs more people willing to do the work, more collaboration, more focus and less distractions.

[Grey]

Switch to X.Org, JWM, ROX-Filer and Aufs in jammy64

Yeah, an interesting move. "I'll give you the tools, and you decide for yourself what it is, traditional conservatism or a step back to ancient but stable technologies"

[dimkr]

Yeah, an interesting move. "I'll give you the tools, and you decide for yourself what it is, traditional conservatism or a step back to ancient but stable technologies"

That's an interesting way to say "thanks". If you have a different opinion, feel free to contribute to woof-CE and shape Puppy's future. Otherwise, don't take it for granted when somebody else does the work for you and even makes it available for anyone to reuse, especially considering the fact most Puppy releases are not reproducible.

[Grey]

That's an interesting way to say "thanks". If you have a different opinion, feel free to contribute to woof-CE and shape Puppy's future. Otherwise, don't take it for granted when somebody else does the work for you and even makes it available for anyone to reuse, especially considering the fact most Puppy releases are not reproducible.

You shouldn't be offended. It was exactly thanks, you just didn't understand the humor

[ozsouth]

@dimkr - Thankyou for your efforts. I wish I was smart enough to use your tools, but I (and I suspect most others) are several levels behind you in development ability. Basically just tweakers. That is why there have been so few devs over the years & only a handful of official puppies. Sadly all the devs sooner or later burn out & give up in the face of unrealistic expectations. I sense your frustration at the lack of help & demands. So despite liking the idea of Upup, I understand your need to pace yourself. Thankyou again.

[mikewalsh]

@dimkr - Thankyou for your efforts. I wish I was smart enough to use your tools, but I (and I suspect most others) are several levels behind you in development ability. Basically just tweakers. That is why there have been so few devs over the years & only a handful of official puppies. Sadly all the devs sooner or later burn out & give up in the face of unrealistic expectations. I sense your frustration at the lack of help & demands. So despite liking the idea of Upup, I understand your need to pace yourself. Thankyou again.

@dimkr :-

I, too, second ozsouth's sentiments. You've made some amazing contributions to this community over the years, and for that alone the community has every reason to be grateful AND appreciative. But Oz IS right, unfortunately; no matter how much we innovate, as a community, there will always be those who treat the whole thing as Windoze users treat the Redmond monstrosity; because they pay for it, they feel that affords them the God-given right to make demands. Yet Puppy is free.....

Many of these fail to comprehend that there isn't a team of paid, full-time individuals who do nothing BUT work on Puppy; that it's at most a handful of guys who do what they do in their spare time. I understand Oz's reference to demands & lack of help; even just doing a few odd things here & there, I get a faint inkling of the kind of thing you must go through with an entire OS to work on!

Even here in Linux land, too many folks do have unrealistic expectations. All the more so because they can swap OSs just for the cost of the bandwidth to download them... Very few of those who use Puppy seem to want to help in any way; having said which, of course, it takes a special kind of temperament to commit to something as major as what you do. It's not for everyone.

Mike.

[Grey]

After https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/3293, the default jammy64 configuration in woof-CE should be very easy to adapt into a worthy successor to Fossapup. Anyone can do this, and all the building blocks are already there.

Sorry to bring you back to a "closed" topic.
I tried to build it with a ready-made recipe in /woof-CE/woof-distro/x86_64/ubuntu/jammy64/ from woof-ce. iso and devx are OK, however, when trying to launch, it reaches the first settings window and it is found that the mouse and keyboard do not work. At first I tried it in Qemu, then on a real computer, it's the same everywhere (well, except for the design of the boot menu).
I thought there should be something working at a basic level. Or the jammy folder needs to be removed for now.

[dimkr]

@Grey Your build is probably broken. I don't see this problem with a fresh development build.

[LateAdopter]

I have tried the Woof-CE CI build of puppy_upup_22.04-215 and it works normally in most respects. It's necessary to tidy up the DISTRO_SPECS file in the initrd and copy it to the base SFS to use it as a normal system.

There is a general problem with the intel drivers from freedesktop, that use glamor, related to sync jitter. It is not new and is being ignored by the freedesktop developers.

It's not specific to Jammy except that the intel_drv.so that works properly has been unmaintained for 18 months. It still builds against Xorg ABI 25.2 and is shipped with Ubuntu Jammy, though.

[Grey]

puppy_upup_22.04-215 and it works normally in most respects.

I tried 256. Mouse and keyboard work, but there are no Jammy repositories in PPM. Did you have them at 215?

[LateAdopter]

I don't use the repos in the PPM so I wouldn't have noticed.

These are not released builds, they are just for validation of Woof-CE. If you think there is a bug in that context you would raise an issue on github.

[Grey]

These are not released builds, they are just for validation of Woof-CE. If you think there is a bug in that context you would raise an issue on github.

No, I'll just calm down I glued the radiators to the Rpi 3B+ & stuffed it all into the NesPi case & now I will install and configure RetroPie. So sometime later, maybe, if the nerves are still intact

[dimkr]

there are no Jammy repositories in PPM

Because such repositories don't exist. Nobody has stepped up to create these repositories, maintain them and add them to the jammy64 build configuration.

EDIT: apt support is omitted from CI builds in the name of faster build times, I'll restore it in build >= 258 if jammy64 has its fans.

[tosim]

@dimkr Please count me in!

[mikeslr]

What tosim said.

[dimkr]

@dimkr Please count me in!

Done, build 259 includes apt.