Is undelete possible?

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Governor
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Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

Is undelete possible?
Is there such a program available through the package manager?
Thanks!

Code: Select all

perating System:
 Distro Name                BookwormPup64 10.0.6 (x86_64)
 Woof-CE Build              testing;22250aa6d;2024-03-04 13:57:41 +0000
 Woof Version               9
 Binary Base                debian
 Distro Base                bookworm
 Distro Date                Mar 2024
 User Session               x11
 Window Manager             JWM v2.4.3
 Desktop Start              xwin jwm

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by pp4mnklinux »

I am not using BookWorm, so I can't tell you about a program in the PPM, but you must always take this in mind:

Always stop using the device you are trying to recover files from to prevent overwriting the deleted data. The more you use it, the more difficult to recover.

The best method... prevention.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

pp4mnklinux wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 10:46 am

I am not using BookWorm, so I can tell you about a program in the PPM, but you must always take this in mind:

Always stop using the device you are trying to recover files from to prevent overwriting the deleted data. The more you use it, the more difficult to recover.

The best method... prevention.

When I used Windows, I could, as a rule, easily undelete files as long as they were deleted using the GUI. You could even change your mind immediately after deleting, then right-click and restore it. I have not yet seen anything like that in Puppy, and I was wondering if it exists.
Thanks!

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Trapster »

Delete is delete in Linux, unless you send it to trash.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by mikewalsh »

@Governor :-

Um; o-kayyy...

Would I be correct in thinking this is related to your previous thread about ROX's - in your opinion! - "faulty" delete mechanism?

I don't believe such a function exists, even in the repos. Do bear in mind that the repos that each Puppy uses are really those of the parent distro from which that Puppy has been "Woofed".....and that the mechanisms of its parent don't always function the same as those of the Puppy.

In other words, IF such a function existed, it would be designed to function with Nautilus, or PCManFM, or Dolphin, or Thunar.....FMs that are a standard component of the various available full DEs (desktop environment packages) commonly employed by most mainstream distros.

You have to understand, ROX is very definitely "quirky", and does things in its own inimitable way. You frequently cannot apply the usual operations of a standard FM to ROX, and it will take some getting used to.....but many people, once they've got used to it, won't look at another FM.....or if they do, will find other FMs extremely clunky in comparison.

I do, however, see your point.....and by definition, attracting new users eventually devolves down to "same old, same old". In other words, you HAVE to make operation of your distro behave exactly the same as everybody else.......because learning new ways of doing things is too much like hard work for most people.

And there lies "the rub". We don't WANT Puppy to be a carbon copy of every other distro out there. In so doing, there goes much of its uniqueness.....and what's to attract new users when any other distro behaves exactly the same?

=============================

In every Puppy built, you SHOULD have an icon on the desktop labelled "trash". This is a self-contained 'portable' application - better known as a "ROX-app" - written in the early days of Puppy - many years ago - to replicate the functionality of the "Recycle Bin" in Windows, with which most Puppy noobs were (and still are) familiar.

Because ROX is basically "drag'n'drop", this is how the "trash" application works. Anything you want to get rid of (but aren't totally convinced you might NOT need again), simply drag it across and "drop" it in the "trash". When there's stuff in the trash, the appearance of the icon will change to reflect this. Left-click shows the contents; a right-click on any item will expose various functions that can be applied; you can restore, or permanently delete, and several other options are also present.

I believe it's possible to add this drag'n'drop 'Delete/Recycle' function into the ROX right-click menu. Where the instructions are, I don't know. I have seen them, years ago, so they're probably buried away in the depths of the old Forum somewhere. Others may be better able to locate them than I.

Mike. ;)

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by mikeslr »

I could be wrong. [Pre-1st cup of coffee and I've mostly only deployed Debians & Ubuntus]. But IIRC, other distros don't actually have a delete function so don't need an undelete function. What they call 'delete' is actually what Puppys call 'Move to trash' with 'Undelete' actually being 'Restore'. Maybe they call delete 'Permanently Remove'.

Remember other distros aren't portables 'operating in RAM'. They constantly read-write to Storage with your Home folder being on Storage. Windows operates the same way. It's no biggy to maintain a Trash folder there.

All Puppys offer both choices, delete and Trash. Both are on the Right-Click Menu. I can't think of a way for 'Trash' to function if you are running Puppy under PupMode 5, i.e., without a SaveFile/Folder.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by geo_c »

mikeslr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 2:11 pm

I could be wrong. [Pre-1st cup of coffee and I've mostly only deployed Debians & Ubuntus]. But IIRC, other distros don't actually have a delete function so don't need an undelete function. What they call 'delete' is actually what Puppys call 'Move to trash' with 'Undelete' actually being 'Restore'. Maybe they call delete 'Permanently Remove'.

Remember other distros aren't portables 'operating in RAM'. They constantly read-write to Storage with your Home folder being on Storage. Windows operates the same way. It's no biggy to maintain a Trash folder there.

All Puppys offer both choices, delete and Trash. Both are on the Right-Click Menu. I can't think of a way for 'Trash' to function if you are running Puppy under PupMode 5, i.e., without a SaveFile/Folder.

It seems to me that if the OP wants safe-delete (move to trash) and all the conventional file manager operations, they should NOT use Rox, but try Xfe, pcmanfm, or Thunar. All three of those have safe-delete functions. Which of course I always TURN OFF first thing when using them, because I don't want my four deleted 2GB iso's wasting space on my hard drive.

But that's just me, it's riskier, but I'm willing to take that risk.

Last edited by geo_c on Thu Mar 13, 2025 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by mikewalsh »

Huh. Seems @mikeslr is right. 'Trash' IS on the right-click menu in addition to 'Delete'. In all the years I've used Puppy, I've never noticed that before!

Well, I'll be hornswoggled... :oops:

I'll modify that statement somewhat, however. I notice that if a media item - music or video - is selected, 'Trash' doesn't appear? I wonder what the rationale behind that is....hmm?

No doubt there's logic behind that choice. 'Trash' IS there for pretty much anything else, however. Neat, and as it should be, I guess.

@geo_c :- I shouldn't have thought it would take ANY halfway competent individual long to discover the difference betwixt 'Trash' and 'Delete'. IMHO, it's advantageous having both right there in the right-click menu; you have the immediate choice, without a plethora of extra clicks to find the function you want...

(*shrug...*)

Mike. ;)

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by dimkr »

If you deleted a file from an ext4 partition, maybe you can recover it, especially if it's shortly after deletion: deletion doesn't write zero bytes or garbage to the physical space occupied by the file contents (only marks such blocks as free for use), so the data might still be there.

Try ext4magic, it should be available through apt or Synaptic.

Last edited by dimkr on Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by wizard »

@Governor

Try the program "testdisk"
wizard

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by MochiMoppel »

mikewalsh wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:10 pm

Huh. Seems @mikeslr is right. 'Trash' IS on the right-click menu in addition to 'Delete'. In all the years I've used Puppy, I've never noticed that before!

You may not have noticed because 'Trash' is NOT on the right-click menu when you select multiple files ... unless you use Shift+right-click, but I guess that's not what people mean when they refer to the "Right-click menu"

I notice that if a media item - music or video - is selected, 'Trash' doesn't appear? I wonder what the rationale behind that is....hmm?

Don't expect a rationale. Even if you select only a single media file, 'Trash' may not be available. It's just a result of the clumsy way the 'Trash' was added to the SendTo directory. I wonder if the creator ever read the manual :lol:

mikeslr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 2:11 pm

I can't think of a way for 'Trash' to function if you are running Puppy under PupMode 5, i.e., without a SaveFile/Folder.

Works just normally.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by mikewalsh »

MochiMoppel wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 2:21 am
mikewalsh wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:10 pm

I notice that if a media item - music or video - is selected, 'Trash' doesn't appear? I wonder what the rationale behind that is....hmm?

Don't expect a rationale. Even if you select only a single media file, 'Trash' may not be available. It's just a result of the clumsy way the 'Trash' was added to the SendTo directory. I wonder if the creator ever read the manual :lol:

@MochiMoppel :-

I'll re-state that further, Mochi. .mp3, .mp4, .avi, .mov, .gif, .png, .jpg.....these all show a rt-click 'Trash' entry. The .ogv (Ogg) files produced by recordMyDesktop, however, don't appear to generate the 'Trash' entry when right-clicking..??

I DO get confused by the 'mime-type' stuff, I will admit.

Mike. :?

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by AntonioPt »

mikewalsh wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 7:29 am
MochiMoppel wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 2:21 am
mikewalsh wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:10 pm

I notice that if a media item - music or video - is selected, 'Trash' doesn't appear? I wonder what the rationale behind that is....hmm?

Don't expect a rationale. Even if you select only a single media file, 'Trash' may not be available. It's just a result of the clumsy way the 'Trash' was added to the SendTo directory. I wonder if the creator ever read the manual :lol:

@MochiMoppel :-

I'll re-state that further, Mochi. .mp3, .mp4, .avi, .mov, .gif, .png, .jpg.....these all show a rt-click 'Trash' entry. The .ogv (Ogg) files produced by recordMyDesktop, however, don't appear to generate the 'Trash' entry when right-clicking..??

I DO get confused by the 'mime-type' stuff, I will admit.

Mike. :?

Maybe the right click list aint completed :D just saying i have been playing with it and i notice that in order to make a more universal translation :D

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

mikeslr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 2:11 pm

I could be wrong. [Pre-1st cup of coffee and I've mostly only deployed Debians & Ubuntus]. But IIRC, other distros don't actually have a delete function so don't need an undelete function. What they call 'delete' is actually what Puppys call 'Move to trash' with 'Undelete' actually being 'Restore'. Maybe they call delete 'Permanently Remove'.

Remember other distros aren't portables 'operating in RAM'. They constantly read-write to Storage with your Home folder being on Storage. Windows operates the same way. It's no biggy to maintain a Trash folder there.

All Puppys offer both choices, delete and Trash. Both are on the Right-Click Menu. I can't think of a way for 'Trash' to function if you are running Puppy under PupMode 5, i.e., without a SaveFile/Folder.

It looks like "Trash" is only possible one file at a time, so not a great feature, but certainly far better than having no such feature.
Edit: I just saw in another post that Shift+right-click works for sending multiple files to Trash, so that is promising.

Last edited by Governor on Sat Mar 15, 2025 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

wizard wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:39 pm

@Governor

Try the program "testdisk"
wizard

I installed testdisk via synaptic, but I have not been able to start the program, so I guess it is a miss. :(

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

AntonioPt wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 9:39 am
mikewalsh wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 7:29 am
MochiMoppel wrote: Fri Mar 14, 2025 2:21 am

Don't expect a rationale. Even if you select only a single media file, 'Trash' may not be available. It's just a result of the clumsy way the 'Trash' was added to the SendTo directory. I wonder if the creator ever read the manual :lol:

@MochiMoppel :-

I'll re-state that further, Mochi. .mp3, .mp4, .avi, .mov, .gif, .png, .jpg.....these all show a rt-click 'Trash' entry. The .ogv (Ogg) files produced by recordMyDesktop, however, don't appear to generate the 'Trash' entry when right-clicking..??

I DO get confused by the 'mime-type' stuff, I will admit.

Mike. :?

Maybe the right click list aint completed :D just saying i have been playing with it and i notice that in order to make a more universal translation :D

It might be smart to place trash adjacent close to delete, so that user doesn't have to hunt for it.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

dimkr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:36 pm

If you deleted a file from an ext4 partition, maybe you can recover it, especially if it's shortly after deletion: deletion doesn't write zero bytes or garbage to the physical space occupied by the file contents (only marks such blocks as free for use), so the data might still be there.

Try ext4magic, it should be available through apt or Synaptic.

I installed ext4magic via synaptic, but I am unable to start the program, so I guess that's a miss. :(

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by AntonioPt »

Governor wrote: Sat Mar 15, 2025 2:08 pm
dimkr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:36 pm

If you deleted a file from an ext4 partition, maybe you can recover it, especially if it's shortly after deletion: deletion doesn't write zero bytes or garbage to the physical space occupied by the file contents (only marks such blocks as free for use), so the data might still be there.

Try ext4magic, it should be available through apt or Synaptic.

I installed ext4magic via synaptic, but I am unable to start the program, so I guess that's a miss. :(

check it the tips i just download in a VM and works

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by AntonioPt »

Why astronauts use Linux
Because you can't open windows in space

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

AntonioPt wrote: Sat Mar 15, 2025 5:26 pm
Governor wrote: Sat Mar 15, 2025 2:08 pm
dimkr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:36 pm

If you deleted a file from an ext4 partition, maybe you can recover it, especially if it's shortly after deletion: deletion doesn't write zero bytes or garbage to the physical space occupied by the file contents (only marks such blocks as free for use), so the data might still be there.

Try ext4magic, it should be available through apt or Synaptic.

I installed ext4magic via synaptic, but I am unable to start the program, so I guess that's a miss. :(

check it the tips i just download in a VM and works

Wow! It had not occurred to me that it was a terminal program. :?

Code: Select all

# ext4magic
ext4magic : Error: Missing device name and options.

ext4magic -M [-j <journal_file>] [-d <target_dir>] <filesystem> 
ext4magic -m [-j <journal_file>] [-d <target_dir>] <filesystem> 
ext4magic [-S|-J|-H|-V|-T] [-x] [-j <journal_file>] [-B n|-I n|-f <file_name>|-i <input_list>] [-t n|[[-a n][-b n]]] [-d <target_dir>] [-R|-r|-L|-l] [-Q] <filesystem> 
#

Thanks!

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

wizard wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:39 pm

@Governor

Try the program "testdisk"
wizard

I had no idea this was a terminal program. It is working.
Thanks!

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by AntonioPt »

Why astronauts use Linux
Because you can't open windows in space

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

dimkr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:36 pm

If you deleted a file from an ext4 partition, maybe you can recover it, especially if it's shortly after deletion: deletion doesn't write zero bytes or garbage to the physical space occupied by the file contents (only marks such blocks as free for use), so the data might still be there.

Try ext4magic, it should be available through apt or Synaptic.

I discovered that testdisk and ext4magic are consol or terminal programs. All the programmer needed to do was add a popup routine displaying a message stating it is a terminal program and cannot be run from the GUI, when someone tries to run it from the GUI.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by geo_c »

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:48 am
dimkr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:36 pm

If you deleted a file from an ext4 partition, maybe you can recover it, especially if it's shortly after deletion: deletion doesn't write zero bytes or garbage to the physical space occupied by the file contents (only marks such blocks as free for use), so the data might still be there.

Try ext4magic, it should be available through apt or Synaptic.

I discovered that testdisk and ext4magic are consol or terminal programs. All the programmer needed to do was add a popup routine displaying a message stating it is a terminal program and cannot be run from the GUI, when someone tries to run it from the GUI.

All terminal programs operate like that because they are designed to run from the command line, like in a TTY environment, where gui popups are not possible to run because there is no graphical user interface.

See the logic?

Run any standard terminal program, like Midnight Commander, nmtui, htop, and you will find they don't come with a pop-gui telling you they are run in a terminal.

Now you know.

I will chalk the first mention of this up to being a forever newbie,

Next mention of it falls under the category of trolling.

If you want a gui, write a custom governor bash startup script opening the terminal and informing you it's necessary to type commands in the terminal to operate it.

And to clarify further, any user not savvy enough to figure out a program runs in the terminal probably shouldn't be running testdisk to begin with, as they are likely to screw up their entire system drive.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

geo_c wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 10:10 am
Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 8:48 am
dimkr wrote: Thu Mar 13, 2025 3:36 pm

If you deleted a file from an ext4 partition, maybe you can recover it, especially if it's shortly after deletion: deletion doesn't write zero bytes or garbage to the physical space occupied by the file contents (only marks such blocks as free for use), so the data might still be there.

Try ext4magic, it should be available through apt or Synaptic.

I discovered that testdisk and ext4magic are consol or terminal programs. All the programmer needed to do was add a popup routine displaying a message stating it is a terminal program and cannot be run from the GUI, when someone tries to run it from the GUI.

All terminal programs operate like that because they are designed to run from the command line, like in a TTY environment, where gui popups are not possible to run because there is no graphical user interface.

See the logic?

No. I see no logic in not telling the user that the program cannot be run from the GUI. I have gotten that message plenty of times in Windows.

Run any standard terminal program, like Midnight Commander, nmtui, htop, and you will find they don't come with a pop-gui telling you they are run in a terminal.

Because most Linux programmers don't care about user friendly.

Now you know.

I already knew, but I still try to get people to think more of the user.

I will chalk the first mention of this up to being a forever newbie,
Next mention of it falls under the category of trolling.

Do as you like. You occasionally post useful information, but you are usually aggressive and abusive to me, and I can live without that..

8<----snip
And to clarify further, any user not savvy enough to figure out a program runs in the terminal probably shouldn't be running testdisk to begin with, as they are likely to screw up their entire system drive.

I do not know how anyone can tell if a program can run from the GUI or in terminal. This has not been explained to me.

Last edited by Governor on Sun Mar 16, 2025 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Trapster »

I do not know how anyone can tell if a program can run from the GUI or in terminal. This has not been explained to me.

Start all programs from a terminal, if a gui pops up, it has a gui. If not, it doesn't.
Also if something doesn't work right, it will generally spit out errors.

And please.......don't tell me this isn't how it's done in windows.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by Governor »

Trapster wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 2:28 pm

I do not know how anyone can tell if a program can run from the GUI or in terminal. This has not been explained to me.

Start all programs from a terminal, if a gui pops up, it has a gui. If not, it doesn't.
Also if something doesn't work right, it will generally spit out errors.

And please.......don't tell me this isn't how it's done in windows.

Do you mean all GUI programs can be started at the prompt?

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by williwaw »

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:56 pm

This has not been explained to me.

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by fredx181 »

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 2:58 pm
Trapster wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 2:28 pm

I do not know how anyone can tell if a program can run from the GUI or in terminal. This has not been explained to me.

Start all programs from a terminal, if a gui pops up, it has a gui. If not, it doesn't.
Also if something doesn't work right, it will generally spit out errors.

And please.......don't tell me this isn't how it's done in windows.

Do you mean all GUI programs can be started at the prompt?

Yes.
Now, your choice to say either:
- Thanks, I learned something !
Or:
- WTF, Why isn't that documented ?! How wrong!.

I'm afraid that you'd choose for the latter (or perhaps some smart comment that includes both, so you can be more sure to have the benefit of the doubt about your intentions).

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Re: Is undelete possible?

Post by geo_c »

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:56 pm

No. I see no logic in not telling the user that the program cannot be run from the GUI. I have gotten that message plenty of times in Windows.

Terminal programs run from a terminal, even a "dumb" terminal, tty, ssh, where there is NO graphical environment. i.e. Xorg or Windows, or MacOS, which is why it is designed as a "Terminal (Command Line) progrom. If a user isn't adept to enough to know the difference, then they shouldn't be installing programs suggested on linux forums. What user that doesn't know about things like running command line programs would go to a highly specialized linux forum? Oh.... nevermind.

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:56 pm

Because most Linux programmers don't care about user friendly.

Wrong. It's because it's not designed for point and click use. If you are a user who has to use a GUI, don't install anything that you don't know for sure is a graphical program.

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:56 pm

I already knew, but I still try to get people to think more of the user.

So your original question (if you remember what it was, I always do BTW) appears in fact a rhetorical device used grind the old ax again which has long since lost it's usefulness, but somehow is relied upon as the tool of choice in almost every forum interaction.

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:56 pm

Do as you like. You occasionally post useful information, but you are usually aggressive and abusive to me, and I can live without that..

Frame it how you like. Abuse is not the same as pointing out easily documentable repetitive behavior.

Governor wrote: Sun Mar 16, 2025 1:56 pm

I do not know how anyone can tell if a program can run from the GUI or in terminal. This has not been explained to me.

Sure you do, type the name of the program into a search engine and read a description of it. Better yet, start learning how to look at the Linux Man page. https://linux.die.net/man/1/testdisk

geo_c
Old School Hipster, and Such

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