Grub4dos doesn't recognize my nvme drive, what tool should I use? [solved with Limine bootloader]

[amethyst]

I have been choosing the 'copy to RAM' option because I wanted the OS to run as fast as possible

FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY:
It's possible to boot totally in RAM and load (copy) your savings at the same time to RAM. The way to do this, is to convert your save file to an adrv, which then replaces your save file. All your Puppy files including the savings in the adrv will ten be loaded and copied to RAM at bootup. Note however that if the contents of your save file were huge in size, you must have lots of RAM available to try this method. Converting your save file to an adrv can be done whether you want to work totally in RAM or not though, I've been using Puppy like this for donkey years (I don't use a save file).

Being a new user though, you would probably want to try (experiment) with the above-mentioned later on after using Puppy for a period of time as this is not the standard way of running Puppy. Most Puppy users use a save file/save folder.....

[geo_c]

I have been choosing the 'copy to RAM' option because I wanted the OS to run as fast as possible

FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY:
It's possible to boot totally in RAM and load (copy) your savings at the same time to RAM. The way to do this, is to convert your save file to an adrv.....

Being a new user, you would probably want to try (experiment) with the abovementioned later on after using Puppy for a period of time.....

@Governor, trust me when I say it's definitely not time to jump into what @amethyst is highlighting here. It's my belief that you tried this back in the beginning of your initial days of using puppy and it caused a lot of debilitating issues. Rebuilding advr is advanced puppy stuff.

My advice is stick with getting comfortable with your USB boot and pupsave use, and as that becomes routine, work on your nvme drive install. Once you have a couple different installs and know how move your personal save folders/files around, you can experiement safely and always revert back to previous state if things don't go as planned.

[geo_c]

Is it possible to load a saved configuration after boot?

No, it must be loaded at boot, because the pupsave folder will be layered (a type of temporary merging) with the root file systems which never get re-written,.

Those root file systems would be the puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, and zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs which are layered with your pupsave folder and appear and function as one complete filesystem. This is the secret sauce of how puppy works, and also what allows you to revert back to a clean system simply by not loading the save folder at boot.

Of course if one of those files is missing or corrupt, puppy won't be firing on all cylinders.

An official explanation can be found here: viewtopic.php?p=63818#p63818

[bigpup]

I have been choosing the 'copy to RAM' option because I wanted the OS to run as fast as possible

OK.

Copy to RAM boot menu entry is going to boot Puppy the same way it boots using the normal 1st boot menu entry.

Puppy always loads the operating system into RAM.
All the Puppy SFS files are loaded into RAM and layered into the final operating file system running the computer.
The save file/folder is the only one that never loads into RAM. It just gets layered into the file system it is only one that is read/write.

That boot loader menu that is provided for a Live install on a USB stick or a CD.
Has a lot of different entries you could select to how it will boot, but does not explain exactly what they will do to the boot process.

The one I said to not use is the one that looks similar to this:

Boot menu entry "fossapup64 9.5 - RAM only"
That says to the boot process to not load the save even if their is one.

Because of what you said about sometimes it loads the save and sometimes it does not.
I was making sure you did not use this entry.

Too keep you at a specific known condition when you boot.
Any boot menu you see when the computer boots.
Select the 1st entry only to continue booting the computer.

That will make Puppy do a normal boot and run the specific normal way it was designed to work.

[bigpup]

Have you been able to get Fossapup64 installed on the internal drive and it booting the computer??

[Governor]

Is it possible to load a saved configuration after boot?

No, it must be loaded at boot, because the pupsave folder will be layered (a type of temporary merging) with the root file systems which never get re-written,.

Those root file systems would be the puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs, and zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs which are layered with your pupsave folder and appear and function as one complete filesystem. This is the secret sauce of how puppy works, and also what allows you to revert back to a clean system simply by not loading the save folder at boot.

Of course if one of those files is missing or corrupt, puppy won't be firing on all cylinders.

An official explanation can be found here: viewtopic.php?p=63818#p63818

I understand it generally. But I am changing settings manually on every boot. Someone must have a batch file or bash script that can spare me the headache of doing this manually every time I boot. I am about talking basic settings here:
Screen
Keyboard
Firewall
Barry's simple network setup
SNS network setup tool
Rox options

[Governor]

Have you been able to get Fossapup64 installed on the internal drive and it booting the computer??

Yes, I can now boot the computer with the internal drive, but with caveats. On the boot menu I have ONE single entry, the choice to boot Puppy. No variations and no pupsaves.
I may not have any pupsaves on that drive, I must check it.

What happens if I copy a pupsave from internal drive to thumb drive or visa-versa, how will that work on boot?

As I mentioned before, I experienced file corruption when copying files from ext4--->fat32--->ext4. So, I changed the formatting to fat32.

My current bootup is from a thumb drive, but here is the NVME internal drive in Gparted:

@williwaw suggested using the limine installer, so I booted my EasyOS thumb and successfully used it to install a bootloader to my 300MB partition which now boots the 448GB partition.

PS. On my thumb drive I have 3 or 4 choices, but only ONE choice to run Puppy.

[williwaw]

here is the NVME internal drive in Gparted:

@williwaw suggested using the limine installer, so I booted my EasyOS thumb and successfully used it to install a bootloader to my 300MB partition which now boots the 448GB partition.

Nice. and it boots fossa and you are offered the opportunity to make a savefile at the first shutdown?
if so limine is working well, please append "solved" to the topic title

Yes, I can now boot the computer with the internal drive, but with caveats. On the boot menu I have ONE single entry, the choice to boot Puppy. No variations and no pupsaves.
I may not have any pupsaves on that drive, I must check it.

whether or not you have made any saves yet should not effect the entry initially generated by the installer.
Future booting into different pupmodes will require additional entries in limine.cfg
additional parameters found at viewtopic.php?t=5484 should be added to the KERNEL_CMDLINE= line of limine.cfg

[geo_c]

Someone must have a batch file or bash script that can spare me the headache of doing this manually every time I boot. I am about talking basic settings here:
Screen
Keyboard
Firewall
Barry's simple network setup
SNS network setup tool
Rox options

People do use scripts to setup systems, but that's usually because they aren't using a savefile. They like to have nothing stored. Essentially they are installing their personal operating system everytime they boot. I consider it a special case approach. It seems to me it would be way more complicated to initially setup.

Like I've been saying, you're first priority in my opinion is to learn how to use a savefile or folder. That's what they are for, saving your configurations. Instead of doing a "full install" like mainstream OS's, what puppy does is boot the base "factory" operating system and layer your personal system on top of it. It functions completely like a full install, but gives the freedom to have different systems stored in multiple savefiles, and also adds the ability to revert to the "factory preset" system by not using a savefile.

So from my memory of what I read this morning, you are booting fossapup from limine on both USB and nvme. Now if you've made a savefile, make sure that's it located in the same partition and folder as where your puppy resides. If the savefile is located there, it should be mounted on boot, unless the limine bootloader needs to be configured to find it. Limine wasn't especially written for puppy, so it may not configure the boot commands automatically.

I've never used limine, so I am unable to offer assistance with it.

[Governor]

Someone must have a batch file or bash script that can spare me the headache of doing this manually every time I boot. I am about talking basic settings here:
Screen
Keyboard
Firewall
Barry's simple network setup
SNS network setup tool
Rox options

People do use scripts to setup systems, but that's usually because they aren't using a savefile. They like to have nothing stored. Essentially they are installing their personal operating system everytime they boot. I consider it a special case approach. It seems to me it would be way more complicated to initially setup.

Like I've been saying, you're first priority in my opinion is to learn how to use a savefile or folder. That's what they are for, saving your configurations. Instead of doing a "full install" like mainstream OS's, what puppy does is boot the base "factory" operating system and layer your personal system on top of it. It functions completely like a full install, but gives the freedom to have different systems stored in multiple savefiles, and also adds the ability to revert to the "factory preset" system by not using a savefile.

So from my memory of what I read this morning, you are booting fossapup from limine on both USB and nvme. Now if you've made a savefile, make sure that's it located in the same partition and folder as where your puppy resides. If the savefile is located there, it should be mounted on boot, unless the limine bootloader needs to be configured to find it. Limine wasn't especially written for puppy, so it may not configure the boot commands automatically.

I've never used limine, so I am unable to offer assistance with it.

How do I get to choose a pupsave on boot?
I have the following in my pupsave folder:

Code: Select all

/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64initmodules.txt
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-2022_12_15.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save.4fs

[geo_c]

How do I get to choose a pupsave on boot?
I have the following in my pupsave folder:

Code: Select all

/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64initmodules.txt
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-2022_12_15.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save.4fs

I would try this:

1) move or copy one of those fossapup64save-.4fs files out of the ../../../pupsave folder that I assume you created to be tidy, and put it in the /mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5 folder
(or you might even move or copy two of those pupsave files to see if you'll get a choice of either)

edit: I made a typo and put ".sfs" as the fossapup64save file extension. I corrected and it's in bold. It should be ".4fs". As long as you didn't rename it, no problem, just copying with Rox should do the job.

2) reboot

And I think that should work.

[mikewalsh]

As I mentioned before, I experienced file corruption when copying files from ext4--->fat32--->ext4. So, I changed the formatting to fat32.

@Governor :-

That's almost certainly due to losing sym-links. FAT32 doesn't support them, you see.

If, as I understand it, you were initially doing a "full install", then you would have been copying all these files directly. Here's the rub:-

• In Windows, applications always look for the DLL (the 'shared' library) directly, by name.

• In Linux, for some doubtless archaic reason buried deep, WAY back in the roots of Unix history, applications never look for the shared library directly. They always seem to look for a differently-named 'sym-link' that indirectly points TO that file instead. So; Linux is full of sym-links.......apparently by design.

This may - just possibly - trace its roots all the way back to the hardware limitations Dennis Ritchie was constrained by when he & the team were originally developing Unix at Bell Labs back in the 60's. Apparently, it all boiled down to the fact that they didn't have one single hard drive that was big enough to hold everything.....instead, they had to split the file-system up between two smaller drives, and to get the system to "see" everything at the same time, had to implement a ton of software 'links' to make it all function as one.

The implementation stuck.....and has been around for so long it's become tradition. The original reasons for it have been long since forgotten. Currently, some of the mainstream distros are in the process of 'redesigning' the Linux file-system to address a large chunk of this issue.

.......it's only taken them 50 some-odd years!

-----------------------------------

When we perform a 'frugal' installation in Puppy as it was originally intended to work, all user changes are periodically saved back to what's called the 'save-file'.....which contains a fully-formatted Linux file-system within it. This is why if you're installing to a FAT32-formatted drive, you will ONLY be given the option of a save-file; it contains the Linux file-system that Puppy needs in order to work properly.

You will NOT be given the option of the more recent save-'folder' unless an already-existing Linux filesystem is detected.

I believe the initrd automatically creates a Linux-formatted virtual file-system in RAM at boot, regardless of what all the other parts of the system might happen to be formatted to.....

Doubtless others will be ready to correct much of what I've just said!

Mike.

[wiak]

I used grub4dos for most of past years on my old systems, but, truth is, it is better to move on and adopt grub2 or similar nowadays for the many advantages it brings. Whilst mainstream distros often use a multi /etc/grub.d configuration hierarchy that makes grub2 appear complex to those not familiar with it, the fact is you can adopt the simple Puppy-type grub2 approach and just modify that one grub.cfg file to boot whatever distros you want. It is no more difficult a format than that used in grub4dos menu.lst, but underlying grub2 provides much more functionality when you require it (EFI or iso booting becomes straightforward, like alone possible, for example).

Don't hide behind that old grub4dos wood, take some time to move on and adopt current approaches and benefit longterm.

[bigpup]

These are your different save files.

/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-2022_12_15.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save.4fs

If Limine boot loader is using an entry that is setup for a normal frugal install boot.
You should be getting to a selection screen where you choose which save to use.

Remember there is an entry that will boot and not use the save.

Can you find the Limine file limine.cfg that provides the boot menu entry.
Open it in a text editor.
Copy and paste it's contents into a post so we can see what is used for the boot entry.

[bigpup]

The partitions on the drive are formatted to fat 32 that everything is stored on.

Fat 32 has a file size max limit of 4GB.

So the save file can not be made to be any bigger than 4GB.

But you can put stuff outside of the save.

Documents, videos, pictures, stuff you download, etc.....

/mnt/home location is a good place to put stuff. This is a location outside of the save.

Only stuff you install or settings and configurations of programs need to be in the save. they automatically get put in the save.

[bigpup]

l wonder why you could not get a working frugal install by using Frugalpup Installer and the boot loader it installs.

Using the procedure I posted here:
viewtopic.php?p=75348#p75348

I have done it this way on 3 different laptops with nvme internal drives and it worked for me.

[Governor]

How do I get to choose a pupsave on boot?
I have the following in my pupsave folder:

Code: Select all

/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64initmodules.txt
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-2022_12_15.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save.4fs

I would try this:

1) move or copy one of those fossapup64save-.4fs files out of the ../../../pupsave folder that I assume you created to be tidy, and put it in the /mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5 folder
(or you might even move or copy two of those pupsave files to see if you'll get a choice of either)

edit: I made a typo and put ".sfs" as the fossapup64save file extension. I corrected and it's in bold. It should be ".4fs". As long as you didn't rename it, no problem, just copying with Rox should do the job.

2) reboot

And I think that should work.

It worked!
I have seen so many recommendations to use a savefolder for pupsave files. And it makes perfect sense to me. I don't like a messy root directory; on my Windows computers, I always kept the root clean with absolutely no unnecessary files.

I have 2 questions:
Why are people recommending a separate pupsave folder if it does/did not work?
Why is this possibility offered when saving pupsaves if it does/did not work??

I experienced many hours of grief and frustration by following the recommended step of creating a pupsave folder, which did not work.

PS. Why are my screen settings not returning in the pupsaves?

Thanks!

[Governor]

When we perform a 'frugal' installation in Puppy as it was originally intended to work, all user changes are periodically saved back to what's called the 'save-file'.....which contains a fully-formatted Linux file-system within it. This is why if you're installing to a FAT32-formatted drive, you will ONLY be given the option of a save-file; it contains the Linux file-system that Puppy needs in order to work properly.

You will NOT be given the option of the more recent save-'folder' unless an already-existing Linux filesystem is detected.

I believe the initrd automatically creates a Linux-formatted virtual file-system in RAM at boot, regardless of what all the other parts of the system might happen to be formatted to.....

Doubtless others will be ready to correct much of what I've just said!

Mike.

I experienced many hours of grief and frustration by following the recommended step of creating a pupsave folder, which I did!
Whomever is maintaining this part of the GUI: Please add a notice when saving a pupsave file, advising people NOT to create a separate folder when using a non-ext or FAT32 partition!

[Governor]

As I mentioned before, I experienced file corruption when copying files from ext4--->fat32--->ext4. So, I changed the formatting to fat32.

@Governor :-

That's almost certainly due to losing sym-links. FAT32 doesn't support them, you see.

If, as I understand it, you were initially doing a "full install", then you would have been copying all these files directly. Here's the rub:-

• In Windows, applications always look for the DLL (the 'shared' library) directly, by name.

• In Linux, for some doubtless archaic reason buried deep, WAY back in the roots of Unix history, applications never look for the shared library directly. They always seem to look for a differently-named 'sym-link' that indirectly points TO that file instead. So; Linux is full of sym-links.......apparently by design.

This may - just possibly - trace its roots all the way back to the hardware limitations Dennis Ritchie was constrained by when he & the team were originally developing Unix at Bell Labs back in the 60's. Apparently, it all boiled down to the fact that they didn't have one single hard drive that was big enough to hold everything.....instead, they had to split the file-system up between two smaller drives, and to get the system to "see" everything at the same time, had to implement a ton of software 'links' to make it all function as one.

The implementation stuck.....and has been around for so long it's become tradition. The original reasons for it have been long since forgotten. Currently, some of the mainstream distros are in the process of 'redesigning' the Linux file-system to address a large chunk of this issue.

.......it's only taken them 50 some-odd years!

Currently, some of the mainstream distros are in the process of 'redesigning' the Linux file-system to address a large chunk of this issue.

Do all these mainstream distros include systemd?
Will this issue be addressed in Puppy?

I met Ken Thompson in the early or mid 1970's at the Westfield Chess Club in NJ. He was testing and refining his chess computer "Belle".
I had a couple of very brief conversations with him about his chess program, but not about Unix. The funny thing was that Mr. Thompson told me that he didn't play chess at all. I remember when he looked at the board while I was playing Belle and he did not see any tactics or strategy, only the pieces and their positions. He explained how he used the phone system to connect with Belle, but that I can't remember.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_(chess_machine)

Naturally, others there had conversations with him besides me and I talked to a few of them. It seems that Mr. Thompson had "carte blanche" at Bell Labs to do what he wanted.
When they had a "black tie" dinner in has honor, he would show up in jeans and t-shirt and nobody blinked.

[Governor]

I used grub4dos for most of past years on my old systems, but, truth is, it is better to move on and adopt grub2 or similar nowadays for the many advantages it brings. Whilst mainstream distros often use a multi /etc/grub.d configuration hierarchy that makes grub2 appear complex to those not familiar with it, the fact is you can adopt the simple Puppy-type grub2 approach and just modify that one grub.cfg file to boot whatever distros you want. It is no more difficult a format than that used in grub4dos menu.lst, but underlying grub2 provides much more functionality when you require it (EFI or iso booting becomes straightforward, like alone possible, for example).

Don't hide behind that old grub4dos wood, take some time to move on and adopt current approaches and benefit longterm.

Sounds fine to me. How does grub2 compare with Limine bootloader?

[Governor]

These are your different save files.

/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-1.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save-2022_12_15.4fs
/mnt/nvme0n1p1/fossapup64_9.5/pupsave/fossapup64save.4fs

If Limine boot loader is using an entry that is setup for a normal frugal install boot.
You should be getting to a selection screen where you choose which save to use.

Remember there is an entry that will boot and not use the save.

Can you find the Limine file limine.cfg that provides the boot menu entry.
Open it in a text editor.
Copy and paste it's contents into a post so we can see what is used for the boot entry.

https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 566#p75566

I am getting a choice now. Apparently, it was not working because I created a savefolder for my pupsave files.
I experienced many hours of grief and frustration by following the recommended step of creating a pupsave folder, which I did!
Whomever is maintaining this part of the GUI: Please add a notice when saving a pupsave file, advising people NOT to create a separate folder when using a non-ext or FAT32 partition!

[bigpup]

Whomever is maintaining this part of the GUI: Please add a notice when saving a pupsave file, advising people NOT to create a separate folder when using a non-ext or FAT32 partition!

This is talking about making a storage folder to store the save file in.

You should have seen this statement when you got to this point in the making a save.

'/' means top-level of partition.
You are only allowed to save one-deep, for example: '/puppy300'.
If uncertain, just click OK button.

You can put the save file in a directory(folder) but not any deeper than one layer on the partition.
You can not put the save storage folder inside another folder on the partition.

For new to Puppy people, the best thing to do, at this point of making the save.
Do not even make a save storage folder.
Just do this part of the info statement.:

If uncertain, just click OK button

that should just put the save inside the frugalpup install folder with the other Puppy Linux files.

Do not get this save storage folder confused with a save folder.
A save folder is the save only as a folder and not a save file.
A save folder can only be made on a partition that is not ntfs or fat format.
A save folder can go on format ext2, 3, or 4, f2fs, etc....

[geo_c]

I have 2 questions:
Why are people recommending a separate pupsave folder if it does/did not work?
Why is this possibility offered when saving pupsaves if it does/did not work??

What we have been talking about is the method of storing your personal settings. There are two options at shutdown for saving personal settings if you are running puppy from an ext3/4 partition, save as a file, or save as a folder. You aren't given that choice at shutdown because you are now running from fat32. Your settings are stored in files which are actually ext4 filesystems stored within a file. This was developed early in puppy as way to install puppy on a fat32/ntfs partition and let it reside along other operating systems like windows.

So it was a misunderstanding of the terminology. A pupsave folder will be created by puppy on shutdown if chosen and be named something like "/fossapupsave64-"

As I say, you are using savefiles now. If at some point you would rather switch to savefolders It's possible, but on your nvme would require reformatting the large fat32 partition to ext4 and installing a fossapup there.

I experienced many hours of grief and frustration by following the recommended step of creating a pupsave folder, which did not work.

I believe if you were to go back through the threads, there were at least a couple places where I or others gave explicit instructions on what to do at shutdown explaining to save the file or folder in the directory of the fossapup system files, which would be the default location of the pupsave utitility. And added also that puppy would find them if they were located there.

You don't have to save them there, but if you choose an alternate location, it's necessary to tell the bootloader where they are in a config line (also known as a "stanza")

PS. Why are my screen settings not returning in the pupsaves?

I'm not sure, but it's possible you are not saving the file at shutdown. Since you are on a hard drive install, you should be running in pupmode 12 which would write your settings on the fly. But if you are running in another pupmode, you might have to tell it to save, either at shutdown or while running. Description here: viewtopic.php?p=63818#p63818

notice I don't address your question, "why ask at shutdown if it does not work?" The reason I don't is because we all know here that it works. I've been using fossapup for three years now. That's an erroneous assumption you are making because of misunderstandings. Now that you have grasped the basic concept of booting, saving, and booting into a save. I recommend going through the topics found in this section of the forum: viewforum.php?f=184 and reading some of them closely. They will make a lot more sense now.

[geo_c]

Do all these mainstream distros include systemd?
Will this issue be addressed in Puppy?

No systemd in fossapup. To my knowledge most pups do not use it.