Mistakes in GUI backup, please fix (Pupsave Backup)

[rcrsn51]

In the old forum, SaveFolderBackup was widely considered to be a superior tool.

But be aware that the attached lzop "full" PET packages may no longer be compatible with modern Puppies. As a short-term solution, just get lzop from your parent repo.

screenie.png (71.52 KiB) Viewed 2263 times

[williwaw]

I am thinking that Puppy is updating my pupsave on disk before saving the backup. Is that correct, and can the on-screen message be made less confusing, ie more specific?

pupsave backup calls /usr/sbin/save2flash when running in pupmode 13 and changing the dialog would be something to change in save2flash and should be considered on the merits of whether changes are justified for save2flash alone.

that said, perhaps there should be a way to opt out of having pupsave backup make the call to /usr/sbin/save2flash.

[williwaw]

withdrawn

[Governor]

@governor

I really like having the information,

We all need to set our personal preferences aside and focus on who we're trying to help. That info is of little help to new and casual users.

it is easy enough to understand, and generally speaking, new users to Linux are seldom people completely new to computers

.
Would disagree here. Easy for you maybe, but even though they may not be new to computers, lots of them are new to Linux in general and Puppy in particular. They know nothing about Puppy's file structure or where to find /mnt/home or even what tool to use to navigate there and how to "extract" a file, rename it and put it in the right place.
wizard

Good point, I must agree with you. I think new users to Puppy are often baffled, overwhelmed, and leave again scratching their heads. I was one of those people, but I had no other OS to turn to and kept trying. I eventually got to the point I can boot from my hdd, and my configuration and setting return on boot, but I am still baffled and overwhelmed much of the time. User-friendliness is of paramount importance.

As you have succinctly illustrated, brief but essential information is important to provide to the user so they can make an informed decision at each juncture. The user MUST have a reasonable expectation of what will happen when they click on a button.

[Governor]

In the old forum, SaveFolderBackup was widely considered to be a superior tool.

But be aware that the attached lzop "full" PET packages may no longer be compatible with modern Puppies. As a short-term solution, just get lzop from your parent repo.

screenie.png

lzop

[Trapster]

@Governor

Out of curiosity, how many backups do you have (compressed and uncompressed)?

[wizard]

@Governor

User-friendliness is of paramount importance.

Yes, one of the hardest parts of helping users on the forum is gauging their current skills and knowledge. We are often handicapped by our own familiarity of Puppy.

Have long been an advocate of including more help and information files in Puppy's. The "Friendly" remasters include two icons on the desktop for that. The first is "Programs Installed" which give the user the names of the programs and their function (i.e. what the hell is "DeaDBeef"). The second is "HELP START HERE" which is an indexed collection of over 30 howto documents covering the basic use of Puppy. Here's an example desktop for Friendly JammyPup 32:

wizard

[williwaw]

as for being able to name a backup, geo_c suggested a good use case

this suggestion is withdrawn,
although this app as presently configured could be used to create alternative saves, it should not be advertised for that purpose.
all backups should be compressed with no choice to create an uncompressed backup.
viewtopic.php?p=141321#p141321

[mikewalsh]

@Governor

User-friendliness is of paramount importance.

Yes, one of the hardest parts of helping users on the forum is gauging their current skills and knowledge. We are often handicapped by our own familiarity of Puppy.

Have long been an advocate of including more help and information files in Puppy's.

wizard

Yah; absolutely. And this is why I've begun including 'Help' files in all my own 'home-brewed' utilities/applications.....because the safest course of action is to always assume the potential user is a total noob where this stuff is concerned. Due to "'our Pup"s somewhat oddball way of doing a lot of stuff, even experienced Linux users often have a hard time getting their heads around quite what's going on.....

.....and the last thing we want to do is to leave them with the impression that Puppy is a mess. Which THEN doesn't help with the subsequent 'bad press' when they share this information with others in the community.

Mike.

[Governor]

@Governor

Out of curiosity, how many backups do you have (compressed and uncompressed)?

Puppy operational folder:

Bookworm operational folder.jpg (98.08 KiB) Viewed 2048 times

Some of these in the save location are an older version of the same file in the operational folder. I don't presently have any compressed backups.
Puppy save folder:

Bookworm save folder.jpg (112.38 KiB) Viewed 2048 times

[Trapster]

.
.
Slacko-7 from years past had this little gem for backups, snap2.

[Governor]

.
.
Slacko-7 from years past had this little gem for backups, snap2.

Looks advanced. Does it work in Bookworm?

[Trapster]

Looks advanced. Does it work in Bookworm?

I do not know. I don't use Bookworm. (32bit only here)

[wizard]

Pupsave-restore version 3 now gives users a choice to add to the restore name.
viewtopic.php?p=141433#p141433

wizard

[Governor]

While this is an improvement, imagine you are a new or casual user trying to navigate this instruction.
Would be much easier to just have a program that can restore the backup for the user, could be referenced in above dialog.

8<---snip

Kudos to @fredx181 who IMO has the right idea, while you (@wizard) appear to be going in the opposite direction and seem satisfied with giving the user less critical information.

[wizard]

@Governor

wizard wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 12:09 pm
While this is an improvement, imagine you are a new or casual user trying to navigate this instruction.
Would be much easier to just have a program that can restore the backup for the user, could be referenced in above dialog.

Kudos to @fredx181 who IMO has the right idea, while you (@wizard) appear to be going in the opposite direction and seem satisfied with giving the user less critical information.

Think you misinterpret that comment, we can do both, either directly or by reference. The point was giving inexperienced users instructions that they cannot act on does not help them. Giving them information and a program that does the restore can both increase their knowledge and provide a solution with a few mouse clicks. In the end, not everyone cares what goes on behind the scene, most just want an easy way to get the task done.

wizard

[Governor]

@Governor

wizard wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2025 12:09 pm
While this is an improvement, imagine you are a new or casual user trying to navigate this instruction.
Would be much easier to just have a program that can restore the backup for the user, could be referenced in above dialog.

Kudos to @fredx181 who IMO has the right idea, while you (@wizard) appear to be going in the opposite direction and seem satisfied with giving the user less critical information.

Think you misinterpret that comment, we can do both, either directly or by reference. The point was giving inexperienced users instructions that they cannot act on does not help them. Giving them information and a program that does the restore can both increase their knowledge and provide a solution with a few mouse clicks. In the end, not everyone cares what goes on behind the scene, most just want an easy way to get the task done.

wizard

Some information is critical and must be provided to the user, ie. a compressed backup is not directly usable.

Did you change the text in your backup/restore program as presented here by @fredx181?
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 90#p141190

[wizard]

@Governor

Some information is critical and must be provided to the user, ie. a compressed backup is not directly usable.

Did you change the text in your backup/restore program as presented here by @fredx181?
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 90#p141190

The Pupsave-restore program being developed here: viewtopic.php?t=13697, doesn't actually have any backup code, it just switches to the existing Pupsave Backup program that is already installed. The changes that @fredx181 proposes would have to be made to that program from WoofCE.

wizard

[wizard]

See here for 250130 Version 4 of Pupsave-restore: viewtopic.php?t=13697
wizard

[geo_c]

Relevant info from the Pupsave Restore Backup discussion:

If you boot using a backup save as the save that is being used.

That is now select-able to do on boot up.

As soon as you make any changes, it is no longer the same backup save.

It is now a different save with different stuff in it.

which is why pupsave backup should compress all backups

Or, because many of us use pupsave-backup to create an alternate working save for loading at boot, the pupsave gui text could indicate something like:

You now have a choice to create either a compressed backup file for archiving, or an uncompressed alternate folder/file for loading at boot.
[compressed archive button] [alternate save button] [cancel button]

[mikewalsh]

Guys, aren't we rather getting away from the whole object of the exercise? This is showing signs of becoming ever more complicated. Although @geo_c's last suggestion certainly has merit, correct me if I'm wrong; I thought the whole idea was to keep things as simple & easy-to-use as possible?

"Simple" for the user is beginning to look as though it'll require some fairly complex code in the backend.....
To the best of my knowledge, @wizard is like me; a "hobby" coder. He's not doing this stuff full-time, day in & day out. Please remember that, when you start "suggesting" more & more "features"..!

Mike.

[geo_c]

Guys, aren't we rather getting away from the whole object of the exercise? This is showing signs of becoming ever more complicated. Although @geo_c's last suggestion certainly has merit, correct me if I'm wrong; I thought the whole idea was to keep things as simple & easy-to-use as possible?

"Simple" for the user is beginning to look as though it'll require some fairly complex code in the backend.....
To the best of my knowledge, @wizard is like me; a "hobby" coder. He's not doing this stuff full-time, day in & day out. Please remember that, when you start "suggesting" more & more "features"..!

Mike.

My suggestion simply changes the text in the gui, along the lines of the original request. By saying that the compressed backup is an archive and that the loadable uncompressed save is a boot choice, we eliminate the expectation that a compressed backup can be loaded at boot.

This goes in tandem with the restore script, which would then unzip the compressed file to the proper location. Those who wish to have a choice at boot would never need to use the restore script if they didn't compress to begin with.

[wizard]

@geo_c

Those who wish to have a choice at boot would never need to use the restore script if they didn't compress to begin with.

While this might be true for BookwormPup64 and maybe other newer Pups, it is not for older Pups. Older Pups will display un-compressed backups of savefolders, but do not, by default, display un-compressed backups of savefiles.

wizard

[wizard]

See Pupsave-restore V5 here viewtopic.php?t=13697

wizard