Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hi everyone,

As a long-time puppy fan having visited this forum for quite some time, I would like to ask a (rather newbie) question:

For the sake of safe browsing directly from RAM and no storage installed or attached at all - has anyone tried to replicate with BionicPup64-8.0 the fantastic ability of EasyOS to load remasters completely with savefile/folder into RAM ?

As of now I have not been able to produce a Bionic remaster which allows for browsing without a USB-stick plugged in.

Any comments welcome ...

Art

Hi,
With Puppy you have 2 options:
1. Do a remaster. This will include the contents of your save file/folder in a new base sfs. You can use one of my remaster scripts in my suite here: viewtopic.php?p=12983#p12983
2. Save the contents of your save file/folder to an adrv or ydrv. You can use my Save2SFS utility (also part of the utility suite) for this.
In both cases, your old save file/folder is replaced. To be able to unplug your usb stick, the puppy files need to be copied to RAM at bootup. Puppy will do this by default if you have enough RAM otherwise you can force it with the pfix=copy or pfix=ram parameters in your boot configuration file.

Hi, @artY .......and to the "kennels".

The main disadvantage of sticking with only whatever browser happens to be built-in to your Puppy is that it is quickly obsoleted by the next round of vulnerabilities which are discovered, and which are then mitigated by yet another new browser release.

I know we often repeat the old saw:- "If it ain't broke, don't try to 'fix' it". For many of the smaller utilities Puppy supplies, this still holds true. But browsers are the one thing I would always recommend to keep as up-to-date as you possibly can.....and unless you really want to be remastering every few days - I know it doesn't seem to bother folk like amethyst, who are more than happy to re-master over & over, again & again, as often as it takes - then the simplest way I can recommend to maintain an up-to-date browser would be to run one of the many portable browsers I've produced, from an external drive (a flash drive is quite OK).

Some people like re-mastering all the time. It would drive me nuts. Horses for courses (of course).

Anyway; without any installed (or attached) storage of any kind, what on earth are you loading Puppy into RAM from..?

Mike.

Hi @artY :

For the sake of safe browsing directly from RAM and no storage installed or attached at all - has anyone tried to replicate with BionicPup64-8.0 the fantastic ability of EasyOS to load remasters completely with savefile/folder into RAM ?

As far as i am aware.USB-stick can be unplugged....it also can be accomplished with Puli 32/64 bit
.
Look here:
viewtopic.php?t=484

I thank you guys for the fast responses !

@amethyst - I have seen your utility suite already a while ago, but wasn't sure how to handle it and whether I understood correctly. But now I definitely will give it a try. There should be no problem on my HP 8GB RAM notebook.

@mikewalsh - Thanks for the warm welcome ...
and rest assured that I'm not loading via magic stick, but from an almost invisible thumb drive to be unplugged after (somewhat magic in itself, and if my teeth can get a hold on - my fingers can't).
I do share your view on the browser issue, not only in terms of security but also regarding usability (e.g. arcgis), which led me to always load separately a .deb package of a recent browser like this Opera Version 88 I'm posting from.
What about your portable browsers - would they require the flash drive to remain plugged in ?

@backi - interesting link to PuLi which I have never come across. Looks like there's tons to read first, though ...

Art

Good afternoon everybody,

Thanks to Nic's Suite I was able to peak further under the hood of my BionicPup64_8.0 and prepare a USB-stick with a minimalistic pup, only enriched with a recent browser - all in my endeavor to safer surf the internet, i.e. without any storage except the RAM. I followed @amethyst's second recommendation to just convert the savefolder into a ydrv.sfs and refrained from doing a complete remaster (the few tweaks I did weren't worth the hassle). I can see now @mikewalsh's point of not focusing too much on remastering, especially as long as one is not out to extensively re-arrange a pup. I rather prefer a collection of smaller builds with specific tasks for each.

What puzzled me was the ease of doing this, after I had a deeper dive into the information provided in this forum (a great place to look around, by the way!). That led me to try by hand what Nic's script does: I dumped everything from within(!) the savefile into a new folder (using the savefile 'as-is' didn't work), dir2sfs'ed that one into an .sfs-file, and renamed the latter to be the ydrv.sfs placed adjacent to the base.sfs.

However, while copying the contents of the savefile, I realized that a few whiteout-files (.wh) resisted to follow, and a chmod didn't help. I recall Nic stating somewhere in this forum to have had the same trouble with his Suite, which necessitated a fix. Surprisingly, those edits of the menu I did with the Menu Manager (blocking some games, presumably via whiteout-files) were transfered to the new ydrv - it was other (in total 13) whiteout-files from etc, root, usr and var I haven't touched at all, which created an error during copying. After testing for any negative affects this might have created, it seems there are none (so far).

Could anyone explain what's going on here, and how to get these files copied in case I have to mitigate some problems ?

Art

artY wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:54 pm

Good afternoon everybody,

Thanks to Nic's Suite I was able to peak further under the hood of my BionicPup64_8.0 and prepare a USB-stick with a minimalistic pup, only enriched with a recent browser - all in my endeavor to safer surf the internet, i.e. without any storage except the RAM. I followed @amethyst's second recommendation to just convert the savefolder into a ydrv.sfs and refrained from doing a complete remaster (the few tweaks I did weren't worth the hassle). I can see now @mikewalsh's point of not focusing too much on remastering, especially as long as one is not out to extensively re-arrange a pup. I rather prefer a collection of smaller builds with specific tasks for each.

What puzzled me was the ease of doing this, after I had a deeper dive into the information provided in this forum (a great place to look around, by the way!). That led me to try by hand what Nic's script does: I dumped everything from within(!) the savefile into a new folder (using the savefile 'as-is' didn't work), dir2sfs'ed that one into an .sfs-file, and renamed the latter to be the ydrv.sfs placed adjacent to the base.sfs.

However, while copying the contents of the savefile, I realized that a few whiteout-files (.wh) resisted to follow, and a chmod didn't help. I recall Nic stating somewhere in this forum to have had the same trouble with his Suite, which necessitated a fix. Surprisingly, those edits of the menu I did with the Menu Manager (blocking some games, presumably via whiteout-files) were transfered to the new ydrv - it was other (in total 13) whiteout-files from etc, root, usr and var I haven't touched at all, which created an error during copying. After testing for any negative affects this might have created, it seems there are none (so far).

Could anyone explain what's going on here, and how to get these files copied in case I have to mitigate some problems ?

Art

Both the remaster tools will deal with white out files. The actual files will be deleted and excluded from the base sfs (the classic method does this by default whilst I managed to get the same result with the alternative script). If you try the convertion of save file/folder to an adrv/ydrv, the actual files which are marked as white out files will not be deleted because the adrv/ydrv is in read format only (replacing the save file which is read/write). The conversion of the save file is a copy process and not a remaster. HOWEVER - there is a solution in the latter case. Attached is a script which you can place in /root/Startup (remove the fake .gz extension). What this does, is to look for whiteout files in the adrv/ydrv and then "delete" the actual files in the filesystem for the session. The end result is the same as if a save file was loaded in that the files will be "masked" like when running a save file so you won't see it during a session. BTW - conversion of your save file/folder could be as easy as copying the contents to a folder and using dir2sfs to make an adrv/ydrv but then you have to do this whilst the save file/folder is not in operation as this could lead to a mess. My utility is a safe method which you can use whilst your save file is in operation and it also deals with some other stuff (like storing your audio settings correctly).

Thanks @amethyst for the fast reply ...

Thanks, amethyst for the info and script about white-outs.

Here's how I handle MikeWalsh's concern about web-browsers: Bionicpup64 will load on bootup both a ydrv.sfs and an adrv.sfs. Bionicpup64's* default ISO has neither. amethyst's Save2SFS can create and update both; and you can exclude one when creating or updating the other.

Pick one of MikeWalsh's portables because they are self contained: bookmarks, settings, addons and even web-cache is stored in its folder. Currently my recommendation is Brave. Unpack your choice to /opt. Run it from there, use it Menu-Add script, configure its default settings, add bookmarks*, and the extensions you want. CLEAR CACHE, HISTORY, EVERYTHING. If you've used LibreOffice, Clear Recent Files. Use Geany's Edit Preferences to set Files to zero/0. ReStart-x to clear history of what files have been opened. Then run Cleanup Memory, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 559#p27559 or CleanRAM, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 645#p25645. Then, immediately, reboot executing a Save.

Immediately after rebooting --before you get anything else in RAM-- create an adrv.sfs. An adrv.sfs has priority over ydrv, in fact, everything except your SaveFile/Folder and the applications you've installed but haven't yet Saved.

When it becomes necessary to update your web-browser, do so, repeat the above steps to create a updated adrv.sfs.

-=-=--=-=---
*[fossapup64 is messier: it includes an adrv.sfs into which many applications have been placed. So for fossapup64 I recommend first doing a remaster so that everything will be in the core/base sfs. IIRC, I had to do it manually: mount both, copy the contents of the core into a folder, then copy the files from the mounted adrv.sfs into that folder over-writing when necessary; then dir2sfs that folder].

* Bookmarks. Any new bookmarks you create will only exist if you have a you SaveFile/Folder. But you can copy urls to a text file (or abiword or Librewriter file) then copy and paste them from there into your web-browser. The same is true for addons. If you find an addon you want to always use, follow the procedure for updating the web-browser. One good thing is that when you booted without using a SaveFile/folder, you don't have to do anything so that web-cache, or anything else, won't survive a reboot.

@mikeslr :-

To save bookmarks with the Chromium-based clones is simple.

Shift+Ctrl+'O' will bring up the Bookmarks Manager. Top right corner, click on the three dots; choose 'Export bookmarks'. It'll open up a ROX 'Save as' window, and you save it as an HTML file (pre-selected) to your location of choice.

To restore those bookmarks to a clean install, repeat step one, then from the top-right menu, 'Import bookmarks'. Select the HTML file you previously saved, then 'OK' it.

It's as easy as that.

-----------------------------------------

Firefox is a bit more awkward; I'm not sure of the steps off the top of my head - I don't tend to use it very often - and although you can import that same HTML file, it's more fiddly to get your bookmarks displayed the way you want them; it involves quite a bit of highlighting/moving from one category/location to another. FF doesn't immediately save to the 'Bookmarks toolbar', rather it saves to the 'Bookmarks menu'.....and that's not the same thing at all. So your bookmarks need to be moved before they show in the Bookmarks bar.

-----------------------------------------

@artY :-

Unfortunately, the way these portable browsers are built means that yes; they DO need to remain plugged-in (if you run them from a flash drive). Simple reason being that they immediately write cache/history, etc, back to the 'profile' in the portable's directory; if they don't find it, they complain & crash/freeze almost straight away.

To do away with this requirement, you would need to run the 'portable' from within the 'save'. Meaning you would need to have plenty of space therein; cache/history can grow to alarming proportions, VERY rapidly.

There IS a way to control this at every shut-down; in the Ungoogled Chromium portable I produce, I've written the 'LAUNCH' script to ask if you wish to clear the cache at every shut-down. We found this HAD to be added for that particular browser, because since Ungoogled Chromium is built without Google's API keys built-in - a large part of the reason for it's existence! - it cannot control such stuff from within the way that, say, Chrome can. So the final shut-down question deletes the contents of the 'Cache' directory from directly within the profile itself IF 'Yes' is selcted.

As I say, that specific browser HAS to have it. But it's easy enough to add it into the 'LAUNCH' script of any of the other 'clones', if you want to take the route of locating it within the 'save'. I can soon talk you through it. It only involves a copy/paste operation.

Mike.

@mikeslr
@mikewalsh

... a big THANKS to both of you for these detailed comments - let me sort through. The question of which browser to finally decide on is crucial for my web activities (e.g. visiting arcgis employing sites) and had led me to install Opera88 as an interim solution for the time being. Features like 'NOT telephoning home' or allowing to delete the cache every so often are important. I'll have a look at your portables you'd mentioned. While being online my overall strategy is: Avoiding hardware which could serve as an airstrip for malware to land AND hibernate on - while only nested somewhere in RAM, pulling the plug solves the problem (had anyone experienced malware to make its way into the graphic's RAM yet?) ...

Art

had anyone experienced malware to make its way into the graphic's RAM yet?

I used to experiment with the graphics memory and the video monitor screen buffer cache to have code terminate and stay resident back in 1983-85 with MSDOS, QuickBasic 4.5, C and assembly.

@artY :-

If you like Opera, the Puppy portable version is currently at v92. You can find the thread - and download link - here:-

viewtopic.php?t=1448

Or if you fancy trying anything else, this link will take you to a comprehensive list of ALL the portable packages I've put together for the community:-

viewtopic.php?t=5104

I keep this list as up-to-date as I can, and try to remember to add new items when produced.

Mike.

I'd suggest that you take Opera's 'free' VPN with a grain of salt. It's encrypted from your computer to Opera's servers, and from those servers to your intended recipient. But at the Servers?

Opera used to be a Swedish company. But some Chinese company now has a plurality interest in it. Under a political system organized from the top down --where supposedly private companies are only as private as the party in power allows them to be, and favoritism within a political organization establishes your likelihood of obtaining and continuing to have economic power-- if you can distinguish between private interests and government objectives you are better than I.

A publicly traded company is, for all intents and purposes, controlled by (s)he who controls 31% of the stock. Directors control who manages the day to day affairs; and those who manage day to day affairs controls hiring, firing and work assignments. Privacy Laws are not self-executing. Businesses can operate under the principle "Catch me if your can". And like any good criminal organization, only those who can be trusted are allowed access to 'the back room' and the 2nd set of books*.

I'm not certain of its current state of affairs: Your post got me wondering so I checked. Edit: As of April 4, 2022l, OscarTalks published new Pets of VPN-ONOFF, including ones for both 32-and-64bit Bionicpup. VPN-ONOFF is available for various puppies, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=802. The pets include some VPNs within the applications, itself. And those applications can be configured to use other VPN servers.
You'll also find threads such as 666philbs explaining how to use ProtonVPN --a highly regarded provider with some free servers-- under Fossapup64, [url]https://www.forum.puppylinux.com /viewtopic.php?p=7747#p7747[/url].

If security is of concern, spend the money and/or the time. Always look a gift-horse in the mouth.

-=-=-=-=
* This is not the forum nor the time for me to explain that I am not just parroting what others have said.

mikeslr wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:13 pm

[...]
A publicly traded company is, for all intents and purposes, controlled by (s)he who controls 31% of the stock. [...]

I don't want to be picky but this is probably not right:

If you own 50% plus 1 of all the voting shares, you have a controlling interest. That is, you are in a position to win every vote of the shareholders—- without having to seek the support of other shareholders ...

peace

one wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 9:26 am

mikeslr wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:13 pm

[...]
A publicly traded company is, for all intents and purposes, controlled by (s)he who controls 31% of the stock. [...]

I don't want to be picky but this is probably not right:

If you own 50% plus 1 of all the voting shares, you have a controlling interest. That is, you are in a position to win every vote of the shareholders—- without having to seek the support of other shareholders ...

peace

50% of all stock +1 share if you want to be certain. However:
A publicly traded company issues millions of shares of stock. Most of the shares will be held by mutual funds (in the US, alone, as of 2021 there were 7,481 and there's a legal cap on what percentage of a corporation's shares --I think 10%-- a mutual fund can hold) and the pension funds managed by governments, labor unions and private companies. The managers of different mutual funds within a company such as T.Rowe Price and Fidelity are in competition with each other for bonuses and promotions, so may not even consult with each other. As 'mere' shareholders the managers of mutual funds and government, union and private pension funds have no legal responsibility for what either the corporations who shares they hold for the benefit of others, nor the management of such corporations, do. Even if there are no legal constraints prohibiting them from becoming a corporate director --and I'm not sure there aren't-- they have little reason to become embroiled in the day-to-day activity of the corporations whose shares they hold; and every personal reason not to.

Their only concerns are 'the bottom lines': Risk vs. Reward, long term growth taxed as capital gains vs. current profits taxed as income; and how does one corporation's financial risk-to-reward and future prospects picture compare with that of another. They express their preferences not by voting but by selling and buying.
As with all derivative effects whose factors are many and variable, the 'Bell Curve' will appear with outliers at both ends. 31% is the hump in the middle, more colloquially called 'the Rule of Thumb'.

Banking is the business activity most closely examined by governments. It took at least four years before Wells Fargo's having defrauded 3.5 million account holders came to light in 2016. Charles Scharf, its C.E.O. during that time, remains its C.E.O. today. The corporate form now prevails in business activities; the days of personal accountability are long gone. 'Catch me if you can' is a viable personal strategy.
Of course, that only applies to the upper 1 percent. I once had a client, a waitress, who was hounded by the IRS which claimed --according to its 'Rule of Thumb'-- she didn't disclose all her tips. That too is a matter of 'risk vs. reward': how much does a government have to spend, and how much time does each agent have to devote, before s(he) or it appears to be accomplishing something.

@mikeslr
@mikewalsh
@rockedge

... just a short note that I am still sorting through all the helpful information you've pointed me to - during this busy time of the year, it looks like I will deeper engage with most things only as early as Christmas, though. I have already tried some of those incredibly useful portables from @mikewalsh's download site - what a nice compilation of goodies.
When comparing the latest portable Opera browser with the one I had downloaded directly (Version 88), I wondered whether anyone has dared to play with the settings under Opera:flags (most of which still seem mysterious to me) in an attempt to 'harden' the browser even for the most enthusiastic Puppy fan? I apologize for this rather sarcastic wording, but obviously Opera plays hardball with its users on this one.

Art

Oh - please forgive me: I forgot to mark this thread as 'Solved', since the core question has been fully answered.
Any of the 'side-routes' within this discussion should be followed under a new heading ...
Again, thanks to everyone involved!

Art