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NEW (06Sept2021): Better quick HowTo use to produce WDL_manjaXFCE (Manjaro XFCE) post by fredx181 here:

viewtopic.php?p=36144#p36144

Also (08Sept2021) see here for Fred's implemented Thomas M (linux live) method for reducing initrd finished size:
viewtopic.php?p=36345#p36345
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I'm always thinking about future maintenance...
I say to myself: "What if I get fed up maintaining the WDL_Arch64 build plugin (which is unlikely since it my family's one and only main desktop and server system...)"?

The Arch-based WeeDog has become my favourite, so I was thinking about what backup distro system I could use as a fallback, if I became tired of development - one that is an Arch derivative?

What else but Manjaro...

So this morning I downloaded Manjaro XFCE edition (3.5 GB download). What now? One of the almost 'hidden' gem features of WeeDog is that its initrd is designed to be able to control pretty much any other distro's rootfs, providing that distro with WDL's 100 layers for sfs modules (via WDL's always used overlayfs frugal install design) and all the other save persistence, upper_changes rollback (folders or sfs files) and other frugal install features (in RAM, changes only on EXIT and so on) that that provides.

Anyway, took me all of 10 minutes only to convert that normally full-installed Manjaro into a frugally installed WDL_manjaXFCE distro... worked on first attempt.

Those used to building/using WeeDogLinux systems will recognise from the attached screenshots how this Manjaro WeeDog system was made to work - main detail is that Manjaro system iso provides the distro as four sfs files, which WeeDog simply layers together in appropriate numbered order (I added the appropriate filename numbers to the extracted sfs files and copied over the modules into the initrd /usr/lib/modules directory, and extracted the related vmlinuz of course). Note that you will find the Manjaro kernel modules inside the iso's included rootfs.sfs file at /usr/lib/modules and the kernel in /boot.

Another example of WeeDog being like the Lord of the Rings: One Ring to Rule Them All...

Evil little distro clearly. Haven't tested it out much at all yet, but Manjaro seems very nice (no wonder so popular), and not too slow at all in XFCE format, and uses pacman of course(!) and includes PAMAC package manager gui, which also handles Arch AUR installs...

Considerably different design to WDL_Arch64 (openbox/tint2) of course, but easy to mould it to similar via pacman and various WDL_Arch64 config additions, so yes, this will be an alternative for my partner's business and our main family needs, and one that is constantly developed by a large team of developers (with underlying Arch rolling-release repos).

I have no plans to release the iso - don't know if I legally could - WeeDog just controlling underlying main official Manjaro system, so not mine to distribute. However, any competent WDL system builder could easily do the above in 10 minutes...

Just trying it on my old (2008) HP Elitebook 2530p core2duo machine, which has grub4dos menu.lst on it:

title WDL_manjaXFCE (sda4)
find --set-root uuid () b812c597-8099-4bee-9bb3-8b9c10f1e902
kernel /WDL_manjaXFCE/vmlinuz-5.13-x86_64 w_bootfrom=UUID=b812c597-8099-4bee-9bb3-8b9c10f1e902=/WDL_manjaXFCE w_changes=RAM1
initrd /WDL_manjaXFCE/initrd.gz

My goodness!!! Manjaro XFCE is REALLY nice to use!!! And it works perfectly fine on this old machine (in this frugal install WeeDog variant). I've been demonstrating it to my kids and that wee pest of a nine year old of mine wants me to copy the frugal installation over onto his machine - I guess that is the end of WDL_Arch64 for him and onto WDL_manjaXFCE... sigh... Oh well, much the same under the hood - I can tweak it to give me identical extra functionality to WDL_Arch64 anyway.

Manjaro XFCE normal (full install) would not be a Puppy forum distro killer, but, I hate to say this, WDL frugally installable version WDL_manjaXFCE makes it difficult to not wonder 'why bother with anything else???'. Sorry. Well, WDL_Void is a special efficient rock-stable case and Puppy used for a special one-off purpose (e.g. either, for example, rockedge Zoneminder server being good exemplars) - but as main desktop WDL_manjaXFCE hard to beat. Manjaro clearly has a good team of very talented developers/graphics-artists and so on... WeeDog's build_weedog_initrd provides the key to flexible frugal install features though... And that generic WDL build system remains thus the main focus for my personal computer-related developments rather than the multiple flavours of final resulting distros the build system is capable of assembling.

Of course, if you 'really want it all...' then check out the WDL_manjaXFCE_WDL_Arch64 attached image - using vnc with VirtualGL to include WDL_Arch64 distro from one of my family server installs ...

Aside from that all-important frugal install multi-layers overlayfs rollback upper_changes build system, like my 9 year old, I'm becoming increasingly more interested in Python-related GUI programming (with Kivy, or PySimpleGUI and later sometimes maybe Django) - main thing I'm interested in is freeing up more time for such activities and less time mucking around trying to configure apps to make them work on distros that need constant tinkering to work. WDL_manjaXFCE (as well as WDL_Arch64) fits the bill for me. The only thing I couldn't get working on WDL_Arch64 was quick attempt with mariadb - that's another reason I downloaded Manjaro - I want to see if mariadb is fine there, and if so, find what config details I missed previously.

I'll try making a WeeDogged MX Linux tomorrow - should be another easy to make frugal installable 'killer' though... All good though - we all need more time for contributing real development work rather than cherry-picking and re-inventing old wheels.

NOTE: Pro: Manjaro (as WDL_manjaXFCE) is beautiful to use distro. Con: MUCH heavier in resource usage than the very efficient WDL_Arch64. I can't quantify this really, but let's just say that top utility usually registers CPU around 99% idle with WDL_Arch64 even when browser running (one page loaded) but WDL_manjaXFCE is using 50% CPU or more most of the time on my old Elitebook... I suspect all the fancy XFCE effects (transparency and so on) need a lot of CPU... but I guess I can tweak out the fancier more resource hogging parts so will be good eventually... Currently looks like Firefox is causing the issue so may not be overall manjaroXFCE issue - I'll try Arch Chromium build (that is what I use in WDL_Arch64 distro). EDIT: I simply closed some of the multiple tabs in Firefox WDL_manjaXFCE and CPU is fine now - after a few seconds CPU is around 90% idle, but WDL_Arch64 is way better for same tabbed pages I believe. I'll report back if I can find reasons/improvements...

EDIT2: Installed Chromium - no CPU issues with that. All fine. Come to think of it, on this machine I originally used Firefox in my WDL_Arch64 builds but had CPU issue there too, but found no such issue with Chromium so changed to that (and loved Chromium ever since) - so now I find same thing with Manjaro or at least WDL_manjaXFCE and with Chromium it is wonderful.

EDIT3: I suspect I can get a tiny manjaro by just using the 04firstrib_rootfs.sfs part. I'll try that now; would be excellent if smaller variant working with pacman since can add what I want then anyway. And perhaps slightly bigger manjaro if only include 04firstrib_rootfs.sfs alongwith 05desktop.sfs (I just rename the unwanted sfs files by sticking a D for Disable in front of their filenames before rebooting... easy with WeeDog eh...!).
EDIT4: Yes, that worked, with just 04firstrib_rootfs.sfs took me to manjaro commandline prompt - correctly guesses user:password as manjaro:manjaro (hmmm... that password didn't work next time I tried - not sure what happened - so I unsquashed firstrib_rootfs and used WDL utility to chroot to it and changed root password manually to 'root'). Pacman was there, but didn't have active internet connection - not sure if netmanager on that sfs yet, wiakwifi would work but only if I install the busybox/udhcpd script component, which is easy enough though full netmanager will be better overall...
EDIT5: installed wiakwifi, busybox, and udhcpc default script and on reboot with only (uncompressed) 04firstrib_rootfs/ I was able to connect via wifi without issue. However, I'm likely to just use the full WDL_manjaXFCE in practice - it's really nice (with Chromium replacing Firefox though).
EDIT6: On new reboot of full WDL_manjaXFCE Firefox working okay now, but Chromium still seems a bit more resource-friendly and I don't trust Firefox in this distro on my machine at least now - Arch Chromium, however, is rock solid.

wiak

Reading this got me all excited. But I don't know where to start. Where can I get the script? I have tried building with RC7 WDL Arch64 before, though it wasn't able boot due to microcode issues. I'm itching to get a WDL system running.

I am really interested in trying this out though I'm just starting to get back into the swing of things building some WDL64-Void variants.

ronriel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:50 am

Reading this got me all excited. But I don't know where to start. Where can I get the script? I have tried building with RC7 WDL Arch64 before, though it wasn't able boot due to microcode issues. I'm itching to get a WDL system running.

Sorry, my fault, I dropped out of publishing for long period and lost the place as to where my home developments had reached - been trying to sort out the mess before re-publishing on git site. Then, the past few days, I've been looking into finishing the save to changes user script but that made me re-examine the way I mounted the sfs modules in the initrd so been busy tinkering with that and delayed release until I'm sure what is going to work best there (saves me time in the end). Anyway, sorry now for this new temporary delay - give me a week and remind me if I haven't finally got something up there - I'll particularly detail how to frugal boot ManjaroXFCE with WeeDog since it is certainly an interesting example of using agnostic WDL initrd.

wiak

ronriel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:50 am

I have tried building with RC7 WDL Arch64 before, though it wasn't able boot due to microcode issues. I'm itching to get a WDL system running.

It may not be anything to do with microcode that caused it not to boot - actually I often get microcode error messages during boot on my system - that's because I don't bother to install microcode on test systems... doesn't effect booting though - security only I suppose. There are different types of microcode of course (and so it is possible your system just doesn't like the default Arch kernel??: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/microcode

WDL_Arch64 does hesitate for quite a while at that early boot stage on my system - maybe 30 seconds or more - I just wait... it boots. Of course it may have been a different issue on your system. Most likely issues tend to be module related (though default WDL_Arch64 comes pretty full module loaded, which is why its init ends up so big). Note that upstream Arch has recently changed the way it provides/installs modules (they are now in .zst form) - the build script will no longer successfully produce an initrd that will boot it unfortunately (I'll have to re-work the build_weedog_initrd script for that). I can boot it myself via a specially crafted initrd, but not so easy to script unfortunately - however, converting a ManjaroXFCE iso currently does not have the same issue (later releases might though).

wiak wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:23 am

ronriel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:50 am

I have tried building with RC7 WDL Arch64 before, though it wasn't able boot due to microcode issues. I'm itching to get a WDL system running.

Note that upstream Arch has recently changed the way it provides/installs modules (they are now in .zst form) - the build script will no longer successfully produce an initrd that will boot it unfortunately (I'll have to re-work the build_weedog_initrd script for that).

That is probably the reason. The 01firstrib_rootfs it produced is also quite small than expected - 845MB. I tried using the Korean and Australian mirrors. I better wait for the ManjaroXFCE script.

Regards,
ronriel

ronriel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:29 am

wiak wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:23 am

ronriel wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:50 am

I have tried building with RC7 WDL Arch64 before, though it wasn't able boot due to microcode issues. I'm itching to get a WDL system running.

Note that upstream Arch has recently changed the way it provides/installs modules (they are now in .zst form) - the build script will no longer successfully produce an initrd that will boot it unfortunately (I'll have to re-work the build_weedog_initrd script for that).

That is probably the reason. The 01firstrib_rootfs it produced is also quite small than expected - 845MB. I tried using the Korean and Australian mirrors. I better wait for the ManjaroXFCE script.

Regards,
ronriel

Main initial Announcement notes (including simple grub4dos and grub2 boot stanzas) are here: viewtopic.php?p=35536#p35536
Layout of bootdir files is illustrated in screenshots, here: viewtopic.php?p=34673#p34673

The WDL_manjaXFCE won't involve any build script per se, so will be easier. What you will first need to do is download the latest Manjaro XFCE iso of course. Then I will be providing a skeleton initrd.gz for that (a less than 1 MB download) along with instructions to modify that (I do provide a script that will temporarily open up that initrd.gz for you, at which time you will copy the /usr/lib/modules/<kernel_modules_version> subdirectory from 'opened up' Manjaro XFCE iso over to the initrd/usr/lib/modules location. (Note that you will find the Manjaro modules inside the iso's included rootfs.sfs file at /usr/lib/modules and the vmlinuz kernel in /boot). You will also need to copy out the appropriate vmlinuz kernel (which your should also find in the iso's rootfs.sfs, in directory /boot). Once you've done that the wee decompress initrd.gz script will compress it back up again for you ready to boot WDL_manjaXFCE.

The last part you then need to do for a frugal boot is more typical: you click on the Manjaro XFCE iso and that will open it up (assuming you are doing this from inside a Pup or a Dog as host system) - you then extract its four sfs content files and rename them 04rootfs (or 04firstrib_rootfs - only the two-digit number is the important bit in the rename since it tells WDL what layer it will go to) and also 05desktopfs.sfs, 06mhwdfs.sfs, and 07live.sfs. Then you'll be ready to frugal boot using grub4dos or grub2 from that directory you have the vmlinuz, initrd.gz and these number sfs files in. Simple as that, but I'll write that up hopefully a bit less roughly (maybe more clearly) soon. Main thing just now is to download that official Manjaro XFCE iso (which is pretty big - around 3.5GB) and I'll notify soon when the skeleton initrd.gz is ready for download and use. You can later re-use that skeleton WDL initrd.gz for booting other official distros, such as Slitaz or Slackware or Pups (but a very few extra steps need done with that last one to get it working per what you'd want).

Note that the skeleton WDL initrd.gz is very small, but of course that swells in size depending on the amount of modules you copy into it during this process. However, does mean that if you know the needs of your own machine you can later fine tune that to only include the modules your system actually needs to boot and then the initrd can remain extremely tiny (rather than swelling to a huge size (because Manjaro official provides tons of modules, most of which are not actually required for the initrd to boot...).

I would already have the initrd skeleton published by now, but my partner suddenly needed me to do tons of spreadsheet work for her business, which I have just completed after a long day, so I'm somewhat exhausted right now... so putting my feet up and watching the mind-numbing telly.

wiak

I've just tried the method above and can confirm that it works for me. Posting from Manjaro now. Not tried a reboot to test persistence yet, but I'm sure it will work.
It also works with Makulu - I had that ISO available so tried that first. It only has the one squashfile so was even quicker to do.

Keef wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:35 am

wiak

I've just tried the method above and can confirm that it works for me. Posting from Manjaro now. Not tried a reboot to test persistence yet, but I'm sure it will work.
It also works with Makulu - I had that ISO available so tried that first. It only has the one squashfile so was even quicker to do.

Good to hear that worked for you Keef, with the old WDL initrd. That one provides save persistence via direct saving to media upper_changes, which is perfectly fine. The newer version includes a split init, the major part of which 'w_init' resides as a text file (containing bash code) on the bootdir partition so you can play with your own initrd/init mods very easily simply by editing w_init with geany (of course if you make an error, you will likely encounter the deadly 'kernel panic' then!)... Also the new init contains the new w_changes in RAM modes that allow equivalent to the likes of DebianDogs changes=EXIT mode. Otherwise the same though.

Never heard of Makulu before. Interesting. Thanks for that.

wiak,
Pls take your time...

In the meantime, I'm downloading the Manjaro ISO.

ronriel wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:07 pm

wiak,
Pls take your time...

In the meantime, I'm downloading the Manjaro ISO.

OK, late here, so I'm about to sleep, but I have it in mind to upload the skeleton initrd.gz in around 12 hours time once I'm awake, and then we can take it from there. Might not have a good HowTo written at first but with above notes and help from myself and Keef if he is around you should manage all going well module-wise for your computer.

For those who want to try wd_changes RAM modes I'll have to also thereafter upload suitable 'rsync-back-to-upper_changes_on_media' scripts, but as a start best to try with no w_changes on grub4dos or grub2 kernel line, which defaults to saving persistence back to boot partition/drive automatically into folder upper_changes. That partition has to be Linux format (I use ext2 or ext4 normally).

wiak

Can this be done via a simple ISOmaster manipulation for a final bootable WDL ISO file?

Clarity wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:52 pm

Can this be done via a simple ISOmaster manipulation for a final bootable WDL ISO file?

As I said in earlier post:

viewtopic.php?p=34673#p34673

Anyway, took me all of 10 minutes only to convert that normally full-installed Manjaro into a frugally installed WDL_manjaXFCE distro... worked on first attempt.

Those used to building/using WeeDogLinux systems will recognise from the attached screenshots how this Manjaro WeeDog system was made to work - main detail is that Manjaro system iso provides the distro as four sfs files, which WeeDog simply layers together in appropriate numbered order (I added the appropriate filename numbers to the extracted sfs files and copied over the modules into the initrd /usr/lib/modules directory, and extracted the related vmlinuz of course).

I have no plans to release the iso - don't know if I legally could - WeeDog just controlling underlying main official Manjaro system, so not mine to distribute. However, any competent WDL system builder could easily do the above in 10 minutes...

Of course once you have the boot files all arranged and everything booting of course a person could write all of it to an iso via one of the various ways to do so. They would have to choose whether to include UEFI support and other mechanisms at that time. Whether they would be free under legal terms and conditions to distribute any such iso is not something I could say.

It would also be possible to script the frugal install directory build, but all such scripting takes a lot of time and time is generally what is short. Furthermore, the manual process is relatively easy to do once a person has sufficient Linux experience, but it is all at the user's 'own risk'.

I'm busy working on final test/upload of the skeleton WeeDogLinux initrd right now.

So, I'm finally sitting at my dev computer and have the skeleton WeeDogLinux initrd.gz ready.

I was further delayed this morning because was very cold in the main room here today and we are in lockdown and I also take time making moka pot coffee for my partner prior to doing anything. Finally I lit the woodburner and now it is scorching in here and the coffee has been consumed...

So won't be too long now - I just need to remind myself how to login and set up the downloads appropriately.

This marks a new release beginning for WeeDogLinux. This is the first time I releasing WDL core initrd/init via a skeleton initrd.gz, but I plan this to become the future release mechanism rather than via build_weedog_initrd script. The problem with that script is that upstream repos have a tendency to organise modules somewhat differently from each other in terms of location and compression methodology and though simple that difference proves to be a nuisance for script maintenance. Truth is, it is far easier to maintain the very simple skeleton initrd.gz and manually drop in appropriate upstream repo modules. Furthermore, alternative skeleton initrd.gz files can simply be produced for special cases (such as recent Arch Linux requiring zst modprobe support). And last of all, if a person wants to make a very small initrd.gz (rather than one containing full upstream repo modules) they can easily 'drop-in' just the boot modules they wish to include (which might simply be the absolute minimum determined as needed for their own machines). In practice, a large initrd.gz is no problem anyway, but nice to make specially small ones I feel; that can be done via separate script or some future WDL build initrd plugin via official distro programs such as mkinitcpio/dracut and similar (depending on what upstream distro provides).

So future WDL build system will consist, as it always did, of build_firstrib_rootfs (which only needs to be used for user-contributed firstrib_plugin build recipes) and the skeleton initrd, though likely along with some separate (generally optional) w_plugin helper scripts for manipulating/tailoring that initrd skeleton.

The WDL_manjaXFCE will be the first example of using WeeDogLinux - no build_firstrib_rootfs script stage is involved in it since Manjaro already provide us with perfectly usable rootfs. I see such use of WeeDogLinux's general purpose initrd as its primarly contribution to the community since most any forum member should easily be able to master the process for booting the likes of Manjaro, Slackware, Slitaz and so on via the specially crafted distro-agnostic WDL initrd system.

As I've said the WDL initrd.gz skeleton is considerably under 1 MB in size, and I shall make it a bit smaller (since it really contains nothing much but a static busybox and the core important WeeDogLinux init/w_init combination, which currently provides all the overlayfs multiple layers and w_changes save persistence modes and so on. That relatively efficient and readable distro-agnostic init/w_init really is what makes WDL special - most of its flexibility coming from its specially devised addlayers function that allows the use of either normal folders or sfs files as the layer 'modules' or a mixture of these, and allows these component parts to be stored pretty much anywhere on the system (not only the boot directory).

So if you ever fancy a frugal install of some distro or other you have come across, WDL can probably do that for you... Or if you want to build your own distro variant build_firstrib_rootfs can do that for you via your own f_plugin recipe.

I will also be providing an sfs module that you can optionally use with pretty much any WDL creation for old gtkdialog plus filemnt support (i.e. so that when you click on an sfs file or an iso that will automatically be opened up in a filemanager directory) - that has long been available for use with WDL_arch64 but could be used with any WDL system so then you can use whatever Dog or Pup util apps you may want to even if using WDL manjaroXFCE.

Note that I recommend that if you use Manjaro you stick with it auto logging in as user Manjaro (rather than arranging auto login as root). Fact is that avoids all these issues with apps not liking running as user root and the complex/dubious workarounds surrounding these issues. To administer your system in a painless way in such case all you need to do is:

open a terminal.

If Manjaro, then enter: sudo thunar

Thereafter 'everything' you do in that filemanager will be as user 'root', so no permission issues will annoy you anyway!!! And any terminal opened up via that thunar will also be root user terminals. Similar will apply for distros using pcmanfm (i.e. sudo pcmanfm).

Yes, one extra trick is that you should indeed reserve an area outside the save folder (e.g. in /mnt/home, /mnt/sdaXXX or wherever) that is owned by that normal user so that internet downloads from browsers and so on can be saved outside the save folder without any pain at all. To do that, as user root, you simply:

create the area for that user outside of the save folder. e.g. mkdir /mnt/sda4/my_user
followed by recursively chown to that user. i.e. chown -R my_user:my_user /mnt/sda4/my_user

Learn the above and you will become a more knowledgeable Linux distro admin!!! Otherwise, if faced with the likes of official Ubuntu or Manjaro or whatever you will always think; oh my goodness this is so difficult to save and move files and so on; well, that's nonsense - above way of doing things is ends up just as simple as dangerous auto-login as user root... Of course, you can arrange the system to auto-login as user root (nothing magical about that) - in fact WDL_arch64 and rockedge's WDL_Void builds all do that by default though I personally now always auto-login as 'normal' user and apply above techniques when administering the system (which in practice I actually often do removtely via vnc to my family's installations..., which is occasionally confusing to me since I 'forget' if I'm on my own computer or one of the other 'remote' ones - same desktop on all of them.... Proves to be a very powerful setup though - and particularly nice if configured to enable on boot via the likes of systemd... only issue is most vnc doesn't include remote audio - as Clarity has also commented on some occasions).

Anyway, back to the upload preparation prior to announcing the download link...

Thanks wiak! I'm now posting this using the Weedogged Manjaro.
I'll just leave a screenshot for now. I will be exploring this tomorrow. It's late here. I gotta sleep.

-ronriel

I am currently downloading 3 different ISO's of Manjaro XFCE. I will start with the full featured version to "WeeDog" it and get familiar before setting up one of the minimal versions.

I'll report when it's ready!

I'm wondering how it'll go installing ZoneMinder on it.

<-- Back to WDL Cheatsheet menu: viewtopic.php?p=36426#p36426

Okay, I'm going to work on a new version of simple addon numbered sfs for filemnt/gtkdialog. I will probably put that somewhat higher than layer 08 to leave a gap for anything anyone wants to layer below it (however it is always simply a matter of changing the NN number on the filename to position the layer). Then you will be able to open sfs files and iso files just by clicking on them in WDL_manjaXFCE as well as running your favourite Dog/Pup gtkdialog utils.

I had same trouble with Manjaro as with official Arch Linux (via WDL initrd boot) trying to get mariadb installed (required I think by Zoneminder) a while back. Had no such trouble when I made a WDL_Ubuntu-based distro, but I admittedly don't know much (at all) about installing mariadb. I've never had any trouble at all installing or using any other package.

EDIT: Remember you can always see the contents of whatever sfs layer modules are boot loaded in WeeDogLinux simply by looking in directory /mnt/layers/ in your filemanager. And best way I find to admin the WDL_manjaXFCE system, as I said before, is to open a terminal and start thunar filemanager as user root via command:

sudo thunar

Thereafter, everything you do from there will be from the perspective of user root (including any terminals you open from within thunar) - no root password is asked for.

WDL is indeed distro agnostic. I just weedogged an MX Linux distro and it booted successfully. Manjaro boots faster at 19 secs though. Quite amazing considering these frugal installations are a couple of gigs in size.
I may not know what's happening behind scenes but I could say WDL is quite efficient based on booting time alone. In comparison, my puppies takes 30+secs (Not that I'm complaining).

I couldn't access MX default user profile "demo", but "root" is accessible. I also tried adding some of my sfs applications (created in DPupBuster_XFCE), appropriately numbered inside the installation directory and they worked like they are part of the distro . My distro hopping tendecies got awoken.
I could try more distros but somehow some .squashfs can't be mounted in puppy, so I can't extract the modules. I'll look for the solution later.

For now, what I want to do is to prepare my own sfs set with my most-used apps and some custom app settings, themes, fonts, tools etc. Maybe even some personal files. This is so that when I "weedog" a distro and boot to it, I'll find my preferred apps, settings, preferences already there. The potential here is so great!

@wiak , I know you're working on some gtkdialog.
Maybe some fullblown gui automating apps/tools for WDL in the future. Then maybe, we'll see a WDL suite of tools which could be added as a layer and be accessible from the desktop or menu of any distro. It will make any distro uniquely WDL. Am I imagining too much?

Here's a screenshot from MXLinux XFCE.

-ronriel

ronriel wrote:

I "weedog" a distro and boot to it, I'll find my preferred apps, settings, preferences already there. The potential here is so great!

I think using a plugin recipe file type of mechanism that already exists for the build_root_fs script might be the angle to achieve this.

I am looking forward here to weedog'ing the Manjaro ISO I've downloaded and exploring that and seeing if it would be possible to easily call up and import the preferred apps and settings via a type of plugin. I should have one ready shortly to begin experimenting.

Just built a WeeDog64-Void desktop with a plugin recipe and am fooling around with that also.

squashfs can't be mounted in puppy

I think symlinking it to the_file_name.sfs might have worked

a WDL suite of tools which could be added as a layer and be accessible from the desktop or menu of any distro. It will make any distro uniquely WDL.

excellent idea!

rockedge wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:35 pm

I think using a plugin recipe file type of mechanism that already exists for the build_root_fs script might be the angle to achieve this.

I'll look into that also. Thanks!
I haven't explored much, specially the scripts. I am still more on wrapping my mind around the WDL concept at this stage. There's much to learn.

-ronriel

Better quick HowTo post by fredx181 here:

viewtopic.php?p=36144#p36144

ronriel wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:47 pm

rockedge wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:35 pm

I think using a plugin recipe file type of mechanism that already exists for the build_root_fs script might be the angle to achieve this.

I'll look into that also. Thanks!
I haven't explored much, specially the scripts. I am still more on wrapping my mind around the WDL concept at this stage. There's much to learn.
-ronriel

Thanks for all your great feedback, appreciation, and ideas ronriel!

Yes, the most important matter at first is to become very familiar with using WeeDog's initrd features/functionality, and that indeed immediately provides the ability to add your own numbered sfs modules to tailor the final system to any form you wish (including your great suggestion of a "usable-by-all WDL_distros" WeeDog utility/apps addon sfs module).

Using and understanding the build_firstrib_rootfs part of WeeDog, is in practice optional. As rockedge intimates that script allows anyone to build their own entirely unique distro root-filesystem (which can optionally/usually include the official package manager of various upstream distro 'flavours', which currently are: Void Linux, Arch Linux, Ubuntu, Debian, or Devuan - both 32bit and 64bit variants are catered for if upstream repos support these both). It's that build_firstrib_rootfs script that rockedge, for example, uses to contruct his unique WDL_Void desktop distros. The root-filesystem built is the "FirstRib" (actually that particular 'build script was first part of WeeDog system developed). Rockedge then completes his distro-build by using that firstrib_rootfs with WeeDog's initrd (with any kernel and associated .../lib/modules) - the result being a WDL bootable system.

Of course, as you now know, because WeeDog's initrd was specially designed to be distro-agnostic, you can use it with pretty much ANY root-filesystem (not just one built using build_firstrib_rootfs script). That can, by the way, actually also includes the rootfilesystem of a full installed distro (my very first WDL_Arch was build after doing an initial official Arch full install in fact) - you don't need the rootfilesytem used to be in the form of squashfs modules - you can take any uncompressed directory and use that, so a full installed distro rootfilesystem can be used by simply copying the whole of it into one big directory, giving that a layer number (I would usually call the directory something like 08firstrib_rootfs even though wasn't actually build using build_firstrib_rootfs script) and it can than be booted using WDL initrd (and include other layer modules also in either or combination of NN-numbered uncompressed directories or sfs files).

wiak

Great! I was able also in about 10 minutes to put together a WDL-Manjaro that booted quickly on the first attempt. I used the full featured Manjaro-xfce this time around and began to install some packages shortly after looking around, which all seem to be in working order.

<-- Back to WDL Cheatsheet menu: viewtopic.php?p=36426#p36426

After a few attempts (didn't read instructions well first) I've got a frugal WDL_manjaro install, very nice! Thanks @wiak .
EDIT: See here for creating a much smaller initrd.gz: viewtopic.php?p=36345#p36345

Here's what I did, hope it helps others (not sure if I made it over-complicated or not):

- Create "WDL_manjaXFCE" folder on ext4 partition
- Download Manjaro XFCE ISO and mount it
- From mountpoint, copy the files inside "manjaro" folder in ISO to "WDL_manjaXFCE" folder. Done that, it's all needed from the Manjaro ISO, so you might as well delete it then
- Rename rootfs.sfs to 04firstrib_rootfs.sfs (and rename also the other .sfs files as screenshot shown here: viewtopic.php?p=34673#p34673)
- Download get_WDLskelinitrd400rc1.sh.tar from here: https://weedoglinux.rockedge.org/viewto ... p=355#p355 (remove dummy tar and chmod +x)
- Run get_WDLskelinitrd400rc1.sh in "WDL_manjaXFCE" , then script: modify_initrd_gz.sh and initrd: initrd_v400rc1.gz will appear
- Run ./modify_initrd_gz.sh initrd_v400rc1.gz from terminal in "WDL_manjaXFCE"
- A skeleton folder "initrd_v400rc1_decompressed" will appear, leave terminal open for later
- Mount 04firstrib_rootfs.sfs
- Copy folders inside lib/modules from mounted 04firstrib_rootfs.sfs (e.g. 5.13.12-1-MANJARO and the other one) to: lib/modules inside "initrd_v400rc1_decompressed" dir (or: see EDIT above)
- In terminal that's left open (see above) type: exit
- A new date stamped initrd will be created (including the copied kernel modules), when done rename to "initrd.gz" (or leave it as is and point to that name in bootloader config)
- Copy "vmlinuz-5.13-x86_64" from "boot" in mounted "04firstrib_rootfs.sfs: to our "WDL_manjaXFCE" folder

How my "WDL_manjaXFCE" folder looks: (the boot and efi folders and file efi.img are probably needed for UEFI boot, which I don't use)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Optional: get the "10gtkdialogGTK3_filemnt64.sfs", see here the https://weedoglinux.rockedge.org/viewto ... p=355#p355 and place also inside "WDL_manjaXFCE" folder

My grub4dos menu entry: (replace "12e1e33f-47a6-4979-b13a-404e60f746b9" with your UUID)

title WDL_manjaXFCE
find --set-root uuid () 12e1e33f-47a6-4979-b13a-404e60f746b9
kernel /WDL_manjaXFCE/vmlinuz-5.13-x86_64 w_bootfrom=UUID=12e1e33f-47a6-4979-b13a-404e60f746b9=/WDL_manjaXFCE
initrd /WDL_manjaXFCE/initrd.gz

A whole lot of steps, too overwhelming for a newcomer, I guess.

EDIT: edited a little, several hours later.
please correct me if something's wrong.

EDIT2: Loading initrd.gz at start of boot takes a long time for me, I guess because it's so big, probably much better if the initrd.gz is much smaller, containing only the required kernel modules to boot.

Fred

Hi! Following in the same footsteps as Fredx181, I also had success with Manjaro. Good luck to everyone! It's great to see Wiak's work give good results!

.... I also tested another distro (Makulu) cited by Kief. I installed the latest version "Makulu-Droid", mixed with android. Works fine, android apps as well modern. It's like using your smartphone. There are other versions of Makulu, "Core", "Shift", "Flash" and Lindoz".
In both Manjaro and Makulu, persistence worked.

On second thought.... I don't trade puppylinux, FatDog64 or DebianDog for any of these other popular distros. They are very heavy, 2Gb or more. They do very little for the size they have. The whole system is locked up, I feel trapped! Nothing will give us the freedom we have with puppylinux-based distros and for me, FatDog64 will remain my battle system.... Slacko64, for nostalgia... DebianDog, for learning...

Duprate wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:49 am

On second thought.... I don't trade puppylinux, FatDog64 or DebianDog for any of these other popular distros. They are very heavy, 2Gb or more. They do very little for the size they have. The whole system is locked up, I feel trapped! Nothing will give us the freedom we have with puppylinux-based distros and for me, FatDog64 will remain my battle system.... Slacko64, for nostalgia... DebianDog, for learning...

Well, yes, WDL_manjaXFCE (WDL initrd bolted on to official Manjaro XFCE) is in no way offered as a replacement for the above specially tailored systems. The generic initrd method of booting other distros via WeeDogLinux initrd is just provided as a hopefully useful way of trying other distros in a frugal install save/persistence capable WDL configuration. I use it myself and find it very powerful for that use. However, on the whole, these bigger distros do tend to not quite feel 'comfortable in use' to me either - partly because I am a creature of habit and alternative distros do not by default provide some utility I am used to. Bloat is not a particular factor, since on the whole the only disadvantage of the larger distro base is that it takes up a few GB of my hard disk space, but with tens of GB free that matters not at all. Of more concern is always the desktop manager environment used, so Manjaro's XFCE is noticeably slower to the Openbox/tint2 configuration I use in my WDL_Arch64 system so I definitely prefer using my WDL_Arch64 overall; having said that, I do rather like Manjaro XFCE and rather than my really complaining about XFCE being slower than the desktop I am used to I see that as a simple matter to address - i.e. easy enough to keep the nicer parts of Manjaro XFCE but use a simpler Openbox/tint2 config I'm used to. Also, to address some of the lack of utility (in terms of what I've become accustomed to) I created that 10gtkdialogGTK3_filemnt64.sfs addon - that would only be a start, but shows that it is not hard at all to modify a nice looking distro like Manjaro XFCE to provide similar look and feel of traditional Dog/Pups (just add another sfs module or remaster the underlying Manjaro rootfs)...

But... yes... out of the box... I'm just providing an extra way to test out distros here on the forum - which is particularly for distro types that are not otherwise provided with Dog-type utility/save-persistence/frugal_install facilities. And certainly I am not trying to provide a just download and it works scripted/iso solution for new users. Could be done, but not an intention of mine - I would consider that a waste of my time if I tried to do that these days; aside from some large download numbers (presumably just for quick looks and see), particularly of the small iso releases of WDL_Slitaz, and WLGO_UbuntuFocal64 very few forum members use WeeDogLinux or I'm sure there would have been some feedback. My own understanding is that rockedge does use his own WDL_Void variant/creations, so really I only released this latest WDL skeleton initrd so rockedge could use its latest features, though I did publish on this forum just in case anyone else (most likely developers) wanted to try it out, since I find it useful myself.

So, all in all, I unusually perhaps really do develop WeeDogLinux components (along with my WDL_Arch64 built from scratch/plugins variant) for my family/business use, though I'm happy if anyone else finds any part of anything still published useful. Whilst the skeleton initrd can clearly be used to frugal boot many distros, it remains a fact that if someone really wanted a tailored frugal installable WeeDog distro that contained only the components (and size) they wanted they can use the WeeDog build root filesystem script to do exactly that (in alternative flavours: Void Linux, Arch Linux, Ubuntu, Debian, and Devuan).

I'd say Void Linux remains the most interesting of these since it starts as a core consisting of no more than busybox plus Void official package manager xbps (in fact you can build a WDL distro via the build root filesystem that doesn't even contain busybox and xbps and then compile and add packages of your own... but that would be for a completely independent distro booted by WDL initrd).

So, please don't compare, or if you do, realise you are not comparing anything intended by me. Instead consider it simply as another resource that you might feel useful to use. Hopefully, some WeeDogLinux initrd-provided facilities have the positive effect of encouraging developers of other distros here with ideas:

WDL has always used overlayfs rather than aufs (though aufs can be used with a few lines of build script change - though I won't be doing that), it currently allows up to 100 (NN numbered) module layers (within underlying Linux system limitations), the modules can be left uncompressed directories OR sfs files, and there are several save persistence mechanisms including saving upper_changes from RAM. I find all of these variations useful and WDL initrd/init implements them in a hopefully efficient (particulary via its unique multi-called _addlayer function) and easy to study/read way via a relatively small number of code lines in its boot init. Also most of that init code can be kept external (uncompressed) from the initrd (in file w_init) so can be instantly edited, which is a relatively unique WDL facility I recommend and personally find very useful for adding customised extras of my own).

Whether anyone chooses to adopt any WDL creation as their distro of choice is not important at all (and unlikely since only rockedge is still publishing any isos and these tend to be Zoneminder specific thus far; I'm not currently even publishing my WDL_Arch64 builds in any form any more - they just weren't being used much by anyone but myself). I am pretty sure there are more people out there using full-installed Manjaro XFCE than using any Pup or Dog, and WDL initrd provides for myself a convenient way of trying it too, albeit in a frugal installation, and that is the point of this release really. i.e. had it not been for rockedge actually making his own WDL creation I doubt this skeleton initrd would be published at all so if anyone finds it useful that is nice to hear but no competition/comparison per se is intended or relevant.

I have personally become very busy on other matters (which is partly why I did publish so quickly in this skeleton initrd form since otherwise its publication was not likely to happen). Nevertheless I remain with many ideas concerning the WLGO tiny variants I introduced many months ago, and may well develop something more in that area on the side, but whether I publish any more concerning WDL I don't know since publishing takes time to organise and write things up, and I doubt the audience here is interested or large enough to make that use of time worthwhile. I am not complaining at all about low feedback overall - that doesn't matter at all other than conscience re publishing or not (actually I became guilty publishing WDL_manjaXFCE screenshot without publishing how... and ronriel added with rockedge interest made me guilty enough to quickly publish this much...). But, yes, overall, comparison posts aren't useful and best for me really too that people stick to what they find most comfortable to use, as I do too - really I only tried Manjaro because I was looking for an out-there distro to allow me to do less development work of my own, albeit using skeleton WDL initrd, which should continue to work perfectly well without much if any further development for at least a few years to come (though at the moment I still much prefer my WDL_Arch64). WDL initrd/init certainly doesn't contain all facilities of every other initrd/init (for example I haven't added code for save persistence compressed dat file needed for say use on ntfs) - but it does contain all facilities I myself use, and as one of the only WDL system daily users that determines its likely additional development really - particularly since I am back in (unintended) very busy full-time employment.

Anyway, take it for what it is. Assuming sufficient interest, if I do develop/tweak the skeleton initrd I might well provide updates to that at least, but like most WeeDog releases in the past the interest soon waned as people returned to their main distro preferences, and that is understandable and suits me too since lessens my own guilt for having being slow to publish what I use at home.

fredx181 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:19 pm

After a few attempts (didn't read instructions well first) I've got a frugal WDL_manjaro install, very nice! Thanks @wiak .

Here's what I did, hope it helps others (not sure if I made it over-complicated or not):

Thanks, Fred, put link to your post in first post of related threads:
viewtopic.php?p=36144#p36144

Good Morning! Forgot to mention .... I prefer FatDog64, Slacko64 and DebianDog ... All in Overlayfs mode, using the Wiak initrd (wdlgo_focal64_3.0.0-rc1-allfirmware.iso), since May 2021. This Wiak work , was one of the biggest contributions to our forum. Allowed to choose aufs/overlayfs.
Now it's been proven to work with large distros (large in the sense of size) as well. The distros that in live mode, only allow testing. With initrd_v400rc1, there is now persistence. We can normally use these distros, saving the changes, without needing to install on HD in the usual way.
I appreciate your work, Wiak! A perfect match with puppylinux ideals. Everything is small, functional and with the right amount of freedom.

Oops: Google Translator translation! Something may not go as planned!

Hi,

It's unfortunate that there's not a lot of WDL users to give feedback or even contribute scripts/plugins because this is really a great tool. As @fredx181 mentioned earlier, it may be too overwhelming for a newcomer. It was quite overwhelming for me at first but I was too excited to give up. wiak's WDL (manjaXFCE) happens to check my linux checkboxes and more.

Puppylinux got me into linux world because frugal installation amused me. I wasn't willing to try linux if not for the frugal install mode. But there was a limited number of apps available for me as a PuppyLinux newcomer who depended on downloadble pets & sfs. In Manjaro being based on Arch, with its AUR, I was able to try out a lot of applications not easily found in other distros. It is also Manjaro got me hooked to its default XFCE workflow for some reason. Then MX Linux (also XFCE), with its stability and of course its ability to be installed frugally (antix roots) finally got me settled to Linux. Then I went back to Puppy out of nostalgia and curiousity. I tried so many puppies and I then DPupBuster XFCE. it's just like the other debian based XFCE i've grown accustomed to but quirkier. All my favorite .deb apps were easily converted to .sfs and worked OOTB. And before I knew it, Puppylinux has become my daily driver.

Reading the title of this thread alone with "Manjaro" and "XFCE" combined in a PuppyLinux forum got me so excited I was willing to learn WDL. Otherwise, I would have just brushed this gem aside because it was intimidating and it's a daunting task to learn by reading from older forum posts. But it's really simple once you get the hang of it. wiak already prepared the scripts well.

I'm also glad fredx181 took the initiative to write a simple guide so that others can easily try this out also. I'm sure more people will find value in WDL once they try it and will soon contribute feedback, maybe even scripts, plug-ins and sfs.

So, to future contributors, here's my wish - A Puppy-carrier sfs which can be added as a layer during boot, containing some, maybe even all of our favorite puppy linux tools & apps, behavior, and even quirks.
Want to try another distro but don't want to leave your puppy behind? Just "weedog" that distro and load up your puppy-carrier. Enjoy your vacation!

Forgive my excitement. I know the more important development now is to make the process of creating weedog distros simplier. Simple like, "select source iso", then "select installation dir" then "create boot entry", reboot.

-ronriel

10gtkdialogGTK3_filemnt64.sfs

going to set this up to boot and run on one of my from scratch built (via plug file and build_root_fs script) WeeDog64-Void's. I think it will work.

Fred's guide is pretty much spot on, and it is around about what I have been doing, and now with Void Linux Live versions.

Still my best experience has been and is using wiak's build_root_fs script and feeding the recipe to it via plugin file. Then running the build_initrd script. It is the fastest, most stable operating system I have going.

Though now I am tempted to try out the skeleton initrd.gz with a known to work WeeDog-Void scratch built with the JWM - ROX destop combo, and see if it'll work and what it will do.