Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I have 3 apps I would like to install but none of then can be found with Quickpet and in fact only 2 can be found using the search bar in INSTALL (app).
They are -
Ulauncher - I could not find this in either Quickpet or INSTALL
Stacer
Timeshift
What do I need to be aware of when using INSTALL to download and install apps eg download, unpack? install.

If you are installing them via the puppy package manager (ppm), then I recommend first updating the repo databse. This can be done using the wrench icon on the top left of the package manager.

Thanks I meant PPM.
Which repositories should I select. All?

jarnie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:05 am

Thanks I meant PPM.
Which repositories should I select. All?

When in doubt here keep the default settings.

PPM is the safest installation method, but sometimes when a package doesn't require external dependencies you can find/install it from .pet .deb or load an .sfs by simply clicking on it in the file manager.

s243a wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:42 am

I recommend first updating the repo databse.

Well I have done that 'update'. What now? I have heard there are various types of app installations and that those done via Quickpet are easy which suggests that those done via PPM are not as easy and may require further steps. For example should I install those app which do not display until I physically search for them using the search bar. And when multiple entries are listed (not just different versions) which one should I choose?

Sorry but before creating this thread I not only searched the forum but also did a 'google search' but documentation is scarce if at all.
Maybe I should install Ubuntu and learn from that (as books are available) and then move to 'puppy'?

Thanks jaspup I didn't see your reply until after I submitted this. That helps me heaps.

jarnie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:25 am

s243a wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:42 am

I recommend first updating the repo databse.

Well I have done that 'update'. What now? I have heard there are various types of app installations and that those done via Quickpet are easy which suggests that those done via PPM are not as easy and may require further steps. For example should I install those app which do not display until I physically search for them using the search bar. And when multiple entries are listed (not just different versions) which one should I choose?

Sorry but before creating this thread I not only searched the forum but also did a 'google search' but documentation is scarce if at all.
Maybe I should install Ubuntu and learn from that (as books are available) and then move to 'puppy'?

Thanks jaspup I didn't see your reply until after I submitted this. That helps me heaps.

If you are uncertain what to install, then perhaps tell us what you are trying to install and we can offer suggestions.

s243a wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:07 pm

jarnie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:25 am

s243a wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:42 am

I recommend first updating the repo databse.

Well I have done that 'update'. What now? I have heard there are various types of app installations and that those done via Quickpet are easy which suggests that those done via PPM are not as easy and may require further steps. For example should I install those app which do not display until I physically search for them using the search bar. And when multiple entries are listed (not just different versions) which one should I choose?

Sorry but before creating this thread I not only searched the forum but also did a 'google search' but documentation is scarce if at all.
Maybe I should install Ubuntu and learn from that (as books are available) and then move to 'puppy'?

Thanks jaspup I didn't see your reply until after I submitted this. That helps me heaps.

If you are uncertain what to install, then perhaps tell us what you are trying to install and we can offer suggestions.

Have a look at my first post for that.

Hi
Using the ppm is pretty straight forward. If you find the app, highlight it and it will calculate the dependencies.
Click "do it" on the top and it will in stall the app and needed dependencies. Then you should have an entry in the menu in the relevant section. So try the app, if it works well then super. If not you can go to the uninstall section of the ppm and remove the app and dependencies to keep your save clean. The uninstall section lists the entries in chronological order so you can remove items to the last good install.
You can also download .pet or .deb packages from here or other sources eg. https://pkgs.org/ or https://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/ (always for your correct repo of course)
These will be a one click install, which can also be removed with ppm if they do not work to you liking.

If the apps you'd like to use are from windows and do not have a native linux build then you will need to look into installing wine...
That is beyond the scope of this comment and this topic really. It will take some research on your part first. There is some info here for that.
Hope that gets you going.

Hello, jarnie. Welcome to the Kennels.
If you haven't tried to install something other than thru Quickpet. Stop.. The first thing to do is backup your SaveFile/Folder. I'll be back after dinner.
Well I'm back. Here's the problem in a nut shell. Puppies are created to be "binary-compatible" with some version of some Major Linux Distro and, thru Puppy Package Manager, provide access to that Major Linux Distro Version's repositories. But Puppies are not identical to the Linux version whose repositories they have access to. Access enables the Puppy user to 'install' functional applications if (a) all that application's dependencies can be met; (b) build applications by creating missing dependencies; finding them, or finding appropriate ones which thru creating symbolic links will be sufficient; or (c) neither. Sometimes an application will have no dependencies; sometimes a couple; sometimes over 80; and sometimes after installing 80 or more dependencies and using all the techniques you can think of to resolve problems you still won't have a functioning application but will have a bunch of files scattered all over your system which just occupies space. And sometimes what you install will also break applications you already had. Hence, back up your SaveFile/Folder.
May I suggest that the best alternative is to rethink your objective: see this post viewtopic.php?p=2952#p2952.

For an example of how to safely try to build your own application See this post and its links, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... a1#1024636
The build technique (and problems with it) are spelled out here, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 945#960945. If you are running Fossapup or Busterpup the new version of PaDS, viewtopic.php?p=6355#p6355 is believed to have eliminated the need to manually move libraries.
Another alternative is to install and use pkg-cli. See bigpup's post, viewtopic.php?p=9296#p9296 and the discussion and links which followed.
But even using pkg-cli, it just makes sense to backup your SaveFile/Folder as your first step.

First thing you need to understand that not all Linux software is going to work in Puppy Linux.
Puppy does stuff the Puppy way and it is not 100% the Linux way.
Normal programs usually will work, but depends on the program and what it does.

Timeshift is not a program you want to use in Puppy.
Puppy as a frugal install. The only good way to install Puppy.
Puppy works by using a save file/folder to store any changes.
The main Puppy sfs files never change and are read only.
Timeshift will do nothing that will work for Puppy.

If you want to make a restore point for Puppy.
Use Pupsave backup to make a backup copy of the save.
Something goes very wrong.
Replace the not working save with the backup save.

Here is a deb package of Stacer
https://github.com/oguzhaninan/Stacer/r ... _amd64.deb
Downlaod to location you can find it.
Left click on it to install.

It is still not going to work very well in Puppy.
I tried it and some of it's features are looking for stuff Puppy does not use or does it a different way.
Those features will not work.

Not being designed for Puppy Linux and how Puppy works.
There is a chance it will break something!!!!

Not too bad a program for what it can do in Puppy.

Thanks
Great response and thanks for the link which is great.
Thanks for the advice on Stacer. I found many apps in a YouTube video and of course they were for Linux and so probably not always 'workable' in puppy.
That was another reason for the post.
When I first started using fossapup I was advised quickly that it is not always a good idea to download an app from a website and install but rather use PPM or better still Quickpet.
I now can 'forge ahead'.
Lastly I am getting 'vibes' that anything I find in Quickpet is puppy friendly and that to stay safe don't use PPM unless I am desperate for something there and I take 'precautions'.
Thanks everyone.

Lastly are there any keyboard equivalents to left and right mouse click? The micro switch under the right side of my wireless mouse has died and I can't replace it quickly.

are there any keyboard equivalents to left and right mouse click?

You could enable Simulated Secondary Click.

One way to enable Simulated Secondary Click is to install mousetweaks using ppm (Puppy Package Manager)
Then create a New script in /root/Startup/, something like:

#!/bin/sh
mousetweaks --ssc --ssc-time=1.0 --daemonize

Or you can put the command in /root/.xinitrc

mousetweaks --ssc --ssc-time=1.0 --daemonize
which $CURRENTWM && exec $CURRENTWM

Then, if you hold the left mouse button down for more than 1 second, it will right click instead of left click.

EDIT: mousetweaks does not work the way I thought. What Simulated Secondary Click seems to do is to do a left click then a right click. Which does not seem to be useful.

Or you can enable mouse-keys,

Or you could write a script using xdotool, drag it to the Rox desktop and set a shortcut key, like this:

#!/bin/sh
xdotool click 3

Thanks.
Not worth the trouble I think. I will go to a store asap.

jarnie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:27 am

I have 3 apps I would like to install...
Ulauncher - I could not find this in either Quickpet or INSTALL
...

Not using it just now, but I'm pretty sure fossapup has FindnRun. It would be on Menu>Filesystem. If not, being "noarch" it's an easy install via Puppy Package Manager.

If you want something fancier, you can also install --or as I do-- build a pet of AppFinder.

It's actualy xfce-Appfinder, but is fully functional under JWM without needing the 'entire' xfce framework. The pet is only 571K.
Actually, wait a bit. I built AppFinder for Fossapup yesterday and will upload it to mediafire. Although Puppy Package Manager will download all the required dependencies, to get it to display all Puppy's Categories and applications in the right Category, you would also need to download and install xfce-applications.menu as explained here, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 023#961426.
The above screenshots were taken under Bionicpup64.
Edit a couple hours later: Well your wait is over. Link to download is from here: viewtopic.php?p=14286#p14286

Lastly I am getting 'vibes' that anything I find in Quickpet is puppy friendly and that to stay safe don't use PPM unless I am desperate for something there and I take 'precautions'.

I am not sure about the most recent quickpet, but I believe quickpet is a simplified version of the PPM for the most common apps. PPM is the puppy package manager, and the repos pre-configured to work with your install should be fine.

packages for different flavors of linux can be hacked/converted for use, but this depends on your expertise and your mileage may vary.

some ubuntu packages you find in various places online can be had by adding the ppa to PPM, but often these ppa (personal package archives) are not well tested, and may deserve the concerns you mentioned above for the PPM.

Thanks again for your info. Findnrun looks interesting.
Last night I decided, just for interest sake, to download the iso and create a bootable DVD for the latest version of UBUNTU. Not sure I like it. Doesn't seem as 'user friendly' as fossapup.
I must say that the reason I decided to try fossapup was only for interest and to give me something new to try and learn about especially at this time of the year when not a lot is happening. The more I use it the more I like it. I did not try it simply because it is more 'compact' and takes less resources.

John

We are Puppy!
Resistance is futile!

Basic info on installing additional programs.

First, understand that programs are compiled to run in a specific version of Linux, Puppy, or some other Linux OS.
They may or may not work in something they were not compiled specifically to run in.
Usually a specific Linux OS has a repository of programs compiled for it.
Some software is compiled to work in as many different Linux OS as possible or may be offered as several different packages, each one for a different Linux OS.

Most programs offer the source code, so you can compile it yourself for whatever Linux OS you use.
But that is really rarely needed. So forget that for now.

Puppy Package Manager (PPM), that is installed with the version of Puppy Linux you have, is the best place to get new programs.
It will open, showing programs that are known to work on your version of Puppy.
This applies to Software from repositories for that specific Puppy version.
It also tries to find all needed dependencies.
1. Run Puppy Package Manager.
2. Left mouse click on a listed program.
3. Follow install directions
4. Program installs.

PPM does need to be updated, at times, to know about stuff added to or updated in the repositories.
PPM>Configure>Update Database does this.

Note:
PPM does offer software from non Puppy repositories.
That software was not compiled specifically for Puppy Linux.
PPM tries to get everything needed, but sometimes the needed stuff is not there.
Why?
Because, the Linux OS, it was compiled for, already has the dependencies, so those are not in the repository.
However, usually you can get stuff working with a little digging.

Sorry, but PPM is limited when using non Puppy repositories.

Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) section of this forum is the next best place to look. However, you must keep in mind that you will find programs that where originally compiled under a specific version of Puppy and they may or may not work with your version.
General rule is to read the posting for the program pet and see if there is any info that would indicate what version of Puppy it will work under.
Most of the stuff will work on a large portion of Puppies, but not 100% guaranteed.
You may find more then one version of a program. Sometimes that makes a difference.
1. Find a program you want.
2. Open the program topic.
3. find the link for downloading the program pet.
4. Left mouse click on the link
5. Follow the directions to either install or save.
(If you save the pet file you can install by viewing the pet file in Rox-Filer (file manager) and left click on it)

Installing from a .deb package
New or newest versions of Puppy can install programs that are packaged as deb packages.
They install the same way a pet package does.
Download.
Left click on it to install.

The big problem with these Deb packages.
They may not have everything needed and the Puppy version may not have the needed dependency files/programs.
Some Deb packaged programs just work.
Others need a lot of searching for missing stuff.
you should be using deb packages from a version of linux with similar versions of the base system libraries (e.g. glibc and ncurses). Otherwise the package you install might require newer libraries than are on your system.
The Check Dependencies Installed Packages program can help to figure out what is needed.

SFS packages are another option for adding programs
to Puppy.

Note:
Puppy needs to be a frugal install to take advantage of the benefits of SFS packages.

A way to use a program and not actually install it.
SFS packages you load or unload into the file system, but not actually install.
As long as they are loaded.
They will act as if they are installed.
Unload and it is no longer seen by the file system.
Have to use them to really understand.

Thanks again bigpup.
I have now added more to my 'notes' document.
And started to look for buried bones around here and uncovered more that I can 'chew' at present especially at -
the Instructional HOW-TO Section > Install forum.
Seek and ye shall find.

@jarnie:-

I agree with bigpup on a couple of points.

Timeshift :-no, no, no, NO. As far as I'm aware, this is a Linux Mint 'exclusive', and will not work for other distros without a fair amount of digging through Mint's repos to find 'custom' items built just FOR this application. And even then there's no guarantee it would run, even.... Frankly, it's not worth the trouble. For Puppy, all you would need to simulate the same functionality would be a basic copy/paste operation regulated by a cron job. Do remember, too, that ANY regular, scheduled back-up operation necessitates your machine remaining permanently powered-on, 24/7.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stacer :- although bigpup is right about it not working 100% with our Pup - some are functions common to mainstream distros (more often than not equipped with Gnome shell....yeeurchh! ) - I still feel there's enough functionality to make it worth-while using.

I put together a 'portable' version you can run from outside the 'save'....and also an SFS, for those who prefer more traditional Puppy package types. You can find 'em here:-

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

The SFS, just load it and start from Menu->System. The portable, as always; d/l; unzip; place it wherever you want. Click to enter the portable directory, click 'LAUNCH' to fire it up....

---------------------------------------------------------------------

ULauncher :- Can't help with this, because I know nothing about it. Almost certainly, however, it will be expecting a 'standardised' file-system layout as employed by systemd-enabled distros. That isn't Puppy.

----------------------------------------------------------------

You're taking pretty much the same steps as many others before you. You want to try and get mainstream, 'well-known' apps working that you may or may not have used elsewhere on other distros. In many cases, you then discover that they may run under Puppy (with a lot of work), or they may NOT. Then, you find out that there are perfectly good equivalents that, functionally, deliver exactly the same results (albeit in perhaps a 'less-pretty' form). But ask yourself this; what do you want out of a given application? Do you want the functionality, or is it really

• a) The 'bling' factor that you LIKE, or

• b) The 'comfort zone' of using something you're already used to?

It's entirely down to your own perceptions, and expectations. Can you live with something you've never heard of before, but which ends up delivering exactly what you want?

Mike.

Mike,

I don't think its about bling or comfort. I think most folks new to linux (from windows, anyway) don't even realize a good distribution already includes a well thought out toolbox.

Look at what comes with a new computer now a days. A bare boned OS with useless crap and links to stuff to buy what you need.

@williwaw :-

Absolutely, mate. That's probably one of the most 'on-point' observations I've heard for quite a while.

Windows; yep. Crap, bloatware, & nothing you actually want. No idea about Macs; never used 'em, not interested.

Linux; in general, as you say, a good 'toolset' OOTB. For Puppy you can then scale it up a bit; she contains pretty much anything needed to assess a system & fix the majority of commonly-encountered issues. And anything else you could possibly think of is probably kicking around underfoot, somewhere nearby..!

(My point about the 'comfort zone' was merely to illustrate that many folks get very 'set in their ways' with regard to how they tackle any given problem. If they change OSs, and the apps they're used to using aren't present, they get very, very annoyed - or upset.....because they have to learn how to do stuff all over again.)

Mike.

My point about the 'comfort zone' was merely to illustrate that many folks get very 'set in their ways'

hey, I've been accused of that!

I might add that many times folks don't see much difference between one linux distro and another, at least not until you look past the desktop dressing. It is precisely the usability of the puppy tool kit that makes all the difference to me.