How to switch from x11 to Wayland on Bookworm Pup?

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

Recently replaced the laptop I've been using for a much newer model of thinkpad that's nearly twice as powerful as my old one, it runs beautifully on BookwormPup but there's screen tearing on video playback and none of the solutions I used to quash screentearing on my older laptop is working so I was given the advice to switch from x11 altogether and use wayland instead, could someone please walk me through the process of installing and switching to wayland on puppy? thanks in advance

[wizard]

@PunchyMchurtyfist

Using VLC media player for videos on two Lenovo Thinkpads, runs no issues.

Regarding Wayland, pretty sure that's a no go on Puppy at this time.

wizard

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

@PunchyMchurtyfist

Using VLC media player for videos on two Lenovo Thinkpads, runs no issues.

Regarding Wayland, pretty sure that's a no go on Puppy at this time.

wizard

Yeah its weird, I'm only getting screen tearing on youtube when in full screen on firefox, but nothing I've done ever fixed it so I'm just at a loss. Video files and game emulators and the like play just fine, seems its only youtube.

[dimkr]

If you want a Puppy that uses Wayland instead of X11, maybe you'll be interested in https://vanilla-dpup.github.io. The switch to Wayland solved tearing issues in every laptop I tried, including an old Thinkpad X220.

Wayland support is currently in "tech preview" form that runs the traditional Puppy desktop inside a fullscreen Xwayland window, so you get benefits like vsync but without having to worry about applications that don't support Wayland natively (things like screen capture tools). The future 11.0.x series will be "Wayland native" and development builds are available if you want to try something really new and different.

[Clarity]

In my past tests, v11 from @dimkr has great performance and is stable.

Also, on this forum, there are 2 well tested Wayland distros from the forum's Kernel Linux (KL) subarea. Those are equally as fast, yet are extremely user friendly AND STABLE; works as well on old and modern Laptops/PCs. They too are Puppy friendly in that some the admin tools are present in its user friendly packaging that has VLC stability as well, OOTB. Those are

• KLA KDE

• KLV KDE

Check either of them out. Members there are very knowledgeable and present to assist you if there are issues in the same way members across the forum do. Until now, those distros are so stable, most users, thus far, need little help obtaining, booting, understanding or using them.

Enjoy

[rockedge]

I think @dimkr's Vanilla Dpup runs Wayland.

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

If you want a Puppy that uses Wayland instead of X11, maybe you'll be interested in https://vanilla-dpup.github.io. The switch to Wayland solved tearing issues in every laptop I tried, including an old Thinkpad X220.

Wayland support is currently in "tech preview" form that runs the traditional Puppy desktop inside a fullscreen Xwayland window, so you get benefits like vsync but without having to worry about applications that don't support Wayland natively (things like screen capture tools). The future 11.0.x series will be "Wayland native" and development builds are available if you want to try something really new and different.

Nice! Does it support apt? I see it supports flatpak which are just as good but I've had permission problems with those in the past, even with Flatseal.

[dimkr]

Nice! Does it support apt?

Yes

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

Nice! Does it support apt?

Yes

Nice, I've downloaded and live tried it and there's no tearing at all, wayland really is the future huh lol. Only problem is it doesn't have a hard drive installer and you have to do it manually, could you maybe point me to a tutorial or video that will help me manually install vanilla dpup onto my ssd? I already have Bookworm Pup currently.

[mikewalsh]

I echo @rockedge on this one.

Not knowing very much about it, AFAICT @dimkr 's VanillaDPups are the only ones - that I know of - which use Wayland natively.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the business of "swapping" is like changing from JWM/ROX to, say, XFCE. From what I understand, the entire Wayland process is rather more deep-seated within the OS. If you want Wayland, you need an OS that's been built to use it from the ground up.

I'm willing to be corrected here.

Mike.

[bigpup]

Only problem is it doesn't have a hard drive installer and you have to do it manually, could you maybe point me to a tutorial or video that will help me manually install vanilla dpup onto my ssd? I already have Bookworm Pup currently.

boot BookwormPup64 it has Frugalpup Installer, use it to do the install.

Run Frugalpup Installer main program.
On the main window are selection buttons.
Select the Puppy button, to do the install.
Go through install process, selecting to install to where you want it installed.
Note:
When selecting the partition to install to.
A window pops up, giving option to make a directory, to put the frugal install in.
I make this directory and usually name it, the name of the Puppy version.
Carefully read that windows info.
Press enter, makes the directory, not the OK button.
complete the install.

If you already have a boot loader installed to boot BookwormPup64.
Update it with an entry to boot what you just installed.

If you tell us what boot loader installer you used we can give you better info on exactly what to do.

if it was one of the Puppy provided boot loader installers.
Rerunning it should make a boot menu entry for all OS's on the drive.

[wizard]

@dimkr

Been running a Thinkpad X220 every day for several years and have never had video tearing with any Puppy. Curious, was your issue on an external display?

wizard

[dimkr]

Been running a Thinkpad X220 every day for several years and have never had video tearing with any Puppy. Curious, was your issue on an external display?

Nope, dragging a window diagonally is enough to see tearing, unless you're on Wayland or using X.Org with a compositor.

[mikewalsh]

@wizard :-

@dimkr

Been running a Thinkpad X220 every day for several years and have never had video tearing with any Puppy. Curious, was your issue on an external display?

wizard

Ditto.......about the tearing (I think).

Looking up some examples of what "tearing" is, when I first got this HP Pavilion (early 2020) and was using the on-die Intel UHD 610, I WAS getting something that (kind of) looked like tearing.....except it was on the diagonal, and ran from around 7 o'clock - lower left of screen - up toward the middle (but not quite that far).

It was always in exactly the same place.

It only showed up on odd occasions. It didn't happen all the time. Since buying/installing/setting-up the GeForce GT 710 mid-2020, and installing the official drivers for it, I haven't seen it again. That indicates to me that it was/is a GPU issue, not a screen "issue" per se.

Mike.

[dimkr]

That indicates to me that it was/is a GPU issue, not a screen "issue" per se.

It's a software issue, not a hardware issue. Check your driver settings, you probably have vsync enabled.

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

@PunchyMchurtyfist

Using VLC media player for videos on two Lenovo Thinkpads, runs no issues.

Regarding Wayland, pretty sure that's a no go on Puppy at this time.

wizard

Turns out all this time my screen tearing issues was because xorg was defaulting to modesetting and not actually using the intel video driver. I changed it with a text.conf and runs beautifully now, thanks for answering and trying to help.

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

If you want a Puppy that uses Wayland instead of X11, maybe you'll be interested in https://vanilla-dpup.github.io. The switch to Wayland solved tearing issues in every laptop I tried, including an old Thinkpad X220.

Wayland support is currently in "tech preview" form that runs the traditional Puppy desktop inside a fullscreen Xwayland window, so you get benefits like vsync but without having to worry about applications that don't support Wayland natively (things like screen capture tools). The future 11.0.x series will be "Wayland native" and development builds are available if you want to try something really new and different.

Turns out all this time my screen tearing issues was because xorg was defaulting to modesetting and not actually using the intel video driver. I changed it with a text.conf and runs beautifully now, thanks for answering and trying to help.

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

Only problem is it doesn't have a hard drive installer and you have to do it manually, could you maybe point me to a tutorial or video that will help me manually install vanilla dpup onto my ssd? I already have Bookworm Pup currently.

boot BookwormPup64 it has Frugalpup Installer, use it to do the install.

Run Frugalpup Installer main program.
On the main window are selection buttons.
Select the Puppy button, to do the install.
Go through install process, selecting to install to where you want it installed.
Note:
When selecting the partition to install to.
A window pops up, giving option to make a directory, to put the frugal install in.
I make this directory and usually name it, the name of the Puppy version.
Carefully read that windows info.
Press enter, makes the directory, not the OK button.
complete the install.

If you already have a boot loader installed to boot BookwormPup64.
Update it with an entry to boot what you just installed.

If you tell us what boot loader installer you used we can give you better info on exactly what to do.

if it was one of the Puppy provided boot loader installers.
Rerunning it should make a boot menu entry for all OS's on the drive.

Thank you for the reply and indepth tutorial, I actually did get it installed and working and while Wayland did work perfectly out the box I was still bothered by never finding out a definitive answer why I was having screen tearing issues in the first place, so went back Bookworm pup to nose around and discovered xorg was actually defaulting to modesetting and not using my intel driver, I swapped it using a .conf file and now Bookworm runs beautifully and tear free, albeit at a very slightly higher RAM cost, Conky says resting ram usage went from 1.30 to 1.50, which is something I can definitely live with for being able to watch videos tear free. lmao

[Clarity]

@mistfire has a very nice Wayland offering based upon @peebee's ScPup64, here.

If interested, at its boot menu, select the Wayland boot stanza.

Its another of the forum distros moving forward to modern with Wayland in desktops.

[mikeslr]

@mistfire has a very nice Wayland offering based upon @peebee's ScPup64, here.

If interested, at its boot menu, select the Wayland boot stanza.

Its another of the forum distros moving forward to modern with Wayland in desktops.

+1
As I've written before, mistfire doesn't get the recognition she deserves.

[mikewalsh]

@mistfire has a very nice Wayland offering based upon @peebee's ScPup64, here.

If interested, at its boot menu, select the Wayland boot stanza.

Its another of the forum distros moving forward to modern with Wayland in desktops.

+1
As I've written before, mistfire doesn't get the recognition she deserves.

@mikeslr :-

Yup; I agree. I keep meaning to take a look at QuickPup, but either other stuff keeps distracting me online OR life itself keeps getting in the way...

I must make the effort to try it out. (BAD Mike..! Get your act together... )

T'other Mike.

[dimkr]

xorg was defaulting to modesetting and not actually using the intel video driver

The latter is deprecated and modesetting is the recommended choice. The underlying API used by the former is what Wayland uses and X.Org will eventually die, together with the X.Org-specific drivers.

If you want vsync with modesetting just install a compositor, like picom or xcompmgr, and create a symlink to it in ~/Startup.

[mikewalsh]

That indicates to me that it was/is a GPU issue, not a screen "issue" per se.

It's a software issue, not a hardware issue. Check your driver settings, you probably have vsync enabled.

@dimkr :-

You could well be right. I freely admit I'm no expert with the different Nvidia settings, Dima.

If I look through the Nvidia X-Server Settings GUI, on the OpenGL settings tab I find that

Code: Select all

Sync to VBlank

...is enabled by default. Would this be what you're referring to as "vsync", by any chance? It's worded slightly differently, but it sounds as if it's the same thing...

Mike.

[dimkr]

...is enabled by default. Would this be what you're referring to as "vsync", by any chance?

Yep, this is it

[PunchyMchurtyfist]

xorg was defaulting to modesetting and not actually using the intel video driver

The latter is deprecated and modesetting is the recommended choice. The underlying API used by the former is what Wayland uses and X.Org will eventually die, together with the X.Org-specific drivers.

If you want vsync with modesetting just install a compositor, like picom or xcompmgr, and create a symlink to it in ~/Startup.

I understand, but using the driver solved my tearing problem so this mystery has been solved, man

[rockedge]

I understand, but using the driver solved my tearing problem so this mystery has been solved, man

That's the main thing...that it works. @dimkr the point is it works right now. Sure there's a technically correct way to approach it but getting the thing to work and the user is satisfied sure is a good thing or no?

[dimkr]

If it works, it works.

However, I don't pretend to know if using the deprecated driver has implications like worse battery life, performance, etc', and avoiding unpopular or unmaintained software (major distros use Wayland or X.Org with modesetting) is a good way to avoid issues that affect very few people.