Installing issues on a sata ssd (BookwormPup64 10.0.10)

[measter]

I recently went thru' some struggles with Easy OS on a 'difficult' to access sata ssd that didn't work out. I successfully installed it on the 2nd partition after Linux Mint using a USB Ventoy menu + F6 grub cfg to boot it, but when it allegedly saved, the only thing saved was the files dir. I have a separate thread in an Easy Scarp 663 topic so I won't talk anymore about that in here, except how it related to my question here.

The ssd is partitioned, so I want to be careful about how I put something in its 2nd part, because the boot flag is on the 1st part, and I don't want to change that because of the 'difficult to access' condition, which means that I have to boot the ssd LM via a Plop boot manager, his 'newest' is called PBM6 which I have on an optical. When I do that, the LM boots 'directly' from PBM6 without going thru' a grub menu. I don't understand that; but there are a lot of things recently I don't understand properly.

Here's where I'm going with my Bookworm question. There is an app call FrugalPup (v44). One of its items is FrugalPup icon; my problem is the control of unwanted boot manager effects. Or, maybe my problem is that I should just stick w/ the USB Bookworm + the ssd .sfs. I need to have 'total control' of how the booting is handled, considering that I don't even get to see the boot manager on the part with the boot flag and I don't want to change anything about the boot flag or even its unseen manager, because the last time I did that I lost the ability to boot LM or even fix/repair its (unseen) grub.

[bigpup]

Booting and running BookwormPup from a USB install, is the easiest way to use it, and not have any affect on other drives.

But installing on a internal or other drive is an option.

The issues pop up, when there are multiple different operating systems on the drive.
Getting them all to correctly boot, using the boot loader on the drive.

Frugalpup installer can do frugal installs to any type drive.

you can select to only do the frugal install.

You will be given a choice to use it to install a boot loader.
You have to select boot in it's main window to let it install a boot loader.
So you have a choice to install one or not install a boot loader using Frugalpup installer.

To really give you good information.
Need some details.

The computer is what?
make and model?

Is it old legacy bios or UEFI bios computer?
If not sure make and model should tell us.

What other operating systems are on the sata SSD drive?

[measter]

I need to have 'total control' of how the booting is handled, considering that I don't even get to see the boot manager on the part with the boot flag and I don't want to change anything about the boot flag or even its unseen manager, because the last time I did that I lost the ability to boot LM or even fix/repair its (unseen) grub.

Update, correction.
This 'invisible' grub isn't as bad as I thought. The 'standard' operation after PBM6 gets to select where to try to boot from is that there is just a black screen until the LM desktop comes up; but the good news is that I can escape to a 'funky looking' font-wise grub menu, which surprisingly also has a Win entry (on a hdd spinner which is the only hdd which shows up in the bios boot menu) which was never configured for. But, given that I have a grub, it seems possible that I could make a .cfg entry as I have done in the past to aim it at a Bookworm part without a boot flag or its own boot manager.

[measter]

Frugalpup installer can do frugal installs to any type drive.

you can select to only do the frugal install.

Good.

You will be given a choice to use it to install a boot loader.
You have to select boot in it's main window to let it install a boot loader.
So you have a choice to install one or not install a boot loader using Frugalpup installer.

Excellent

To really give you good information.
Need some details.

The computer is what?
make and model?

Is it old legacy bios or UEFI bios computer?
If not sure make and model should tell us.

What other operating systems are on the sata SSD drive?

HP Compaq 6005 SFF, legacy bios dated 2011, Win7 only on the hdd spinner. The machine is 98% used for booting live linux distro/s, mostly on Ventoy usb sticks, and 2% for trivial Win jobs. 8G ram, cpu AMD Athlon II X2, 500G external usb spinner, internal 150 GiB for Win7, sata ssd internal 256G currently in 3 parts, 1st LM Cinn, 2nd was 'working on' Easy (trying to work; I could boot it from the ssd, but never save except files) but now just parking the Bookworm Pup .sfs. I'm considering installing the Pup there, but I'm shaky because I became too baffled by my negative (but learning experiences with the easy. I'm more familiar w/ the behaviors of 'conventional' linux incl Puppy & a WM instead of a DE than Easy's methods and structure.

[Clarity]

Hello @measter.
For over 5 years, I have NEVER done what is called a traditional Frugal where the contents of any ISO file or IMG file is extracted to a HDD/USB to run a forum distro. I have found that there is no need to do so taking up disk space or opening the possibility for other errors in the traditional efforts.

Like YOU, I use Ventoy and/or SG2D to launch the ISO file and it affords me the ability to save all of my work in a Sessions folder. It is trouble-free and its boot performance equals/exceeds the old traditional efforts for a running forum distro desktop.

I have published this on the forum many times over the years. Although I have tested and used BookwormPUP64 v10010 (BKWP64) by booting its ISO file and saving the session without issue I have not published the results in my usual manner here. Pay attention to the notes as those notes apply to all of the BKWP64 distros, thus far.

If you have issues or questions, post back here for help. There are quite a few members on the forum who have intimate knowledge in launching distros from Ventoy. I show how to do such as well as show that launching via SG2D also works without any issues whatsoever.

[measter]

Like YOU, I use Ventoy and/or SG2D to launch the ISO file and it affords me the ability to save all of my work in a Sessions folder. It is trouble-free and its boot performance equals/exceeds the old traditional efforts for a running forum distro desktop.

I have published this on the forum many times over the years. Although I have tested and used BookwormPUP64 v10010 (BKWP64) by booting its ISO file and saving the session without issue I have not published the results in my usual manner here. Pay attention to the notes as those notes apply to all of the BKWP64 distros, thus far.

Thank you for your input and help.

Because I had run into problems with Ventoy and Easy, including the part about modifying the Easy .img, I had forgotten that I had not had problems with Ventoy and any Pup, but then I hadn't worked on persistence at all in that regard.

I recently put BWP64 on a ventoy stick and it booted fine from the ventoy alternate grub choice. I'm not fully understanding the concept of a sessions save and the above link's Notes REQUIRES session-save parm (PSAVE=), manually added, to GRUB2 Menu stanza for boot for proper session-save management...

... which is aided by a code entry for QEMU

Code: Select all

qemu-system-x86_64 -name "WoofCE PUP ISO from Ventoy USB" -enable-kvm -vga std -m 2G -smp 2 -device AC97 -net nic -net user -rtc base=localtime /dev/sdc

That is, I'm familiar w/ the concept of using an added boot parameter, but since Ventoy allows an F6 transition to a grub cfg in the ventoy dir (which was my strategy for booting Easy (the boot worked, but saving from it didn't), it seems that I could configure something in the grub cfg.

My other problem is that I don't fully understand the above QEMU 'parameter'.

[measter]

I recently put BWP64 on a ventoy stick and it booted fine from the ventoy alternate grub choice. I'm not fully understanding the concept of a sessions save and the above link's Notes REQUIRES session-save parm (PSAVE=), manually added, to GRUB2 Menu stanza for boot for proper session-save management...

That is, I'm familiar w/ the concept of using an added boot parameter, but since Ventoy allows an F6 transition to a grub cfg in the ventoy dir (which was my strategy for booting Easy (the boot worked, but saving from it didn't), it seems that I could configure something in the grub cfg.

Update; but right now I'm having trouble between my browser clicking links in Puppy forum messages and opening that topic.

I've found (but can only access it w/ the search tool) a thread:

Modding the boot (using Ventoy) (SOLVED)

I can't access the link embedded in the thread

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=1371

(About) Here is the SAVESPEC link from its WoofCE author. I feel this understanding is important for booting WoofCE PUPs.

But that link must contain content similar to:

Code: Select all

menuentry "BookwormPup64 Save on SDD6" {
linux /vmlinuz pmedia=cd pfix=fsck,fsckp psave=sdd6

... which must need another curly brace and maybe some tweaking.

[rockedge]

Should now be able to reach the link again!

[measter]

Should now be able to reach the link again!

Yes indeed; thanks to whoever for the fixing.

[measter]

I'm familiar w/ the concept of using an added boot parameter, but since Ventoy allows an F6 transition to a grub cfg in the ventoy dir (which was my strategy for booting Easy (the boot worked, but saving from it didn't), it seems that I could configure something in the grub cfg.

I'm making useful progress here. I can now boot BWP64 from a ventoy and add the boot parameter psave=sdb2 from a message in a thread here (in which he was looking for another way to do it) and also get the session and system changes saved to another boot. I've also been improving my handling of permissions and ownership of the 2nd partition which is improving my access to the 'access-troublesome' internal sata ssd. Now that I've made some changes there, I might check and see if anything has improved for the Easy situation which dir/files I didn't erase when I added the psave .sfs.

I'm a little confused over grub4dos vs ventoy's grub. I think I would like to create a ventoy grub which I can access from the ventoy F6 which will put in the boot parameter for psave=sb2 instead of doing it by editing the boot parameter.

[measter]

I'm making useful progress here. I can now boot BWP64 from a ventoy and add the boot parameter psave=sdb2 from a message in a thread here (in which he was looking for another way to do it) and also get the session and system changes saved to another boot.

I'm a little confused over grub4dos vs ventoy's grub. I think I would like to create a ventoy grub which I can access from the ventoy F6 which will put in the boot parameter for psave=sb2 instead of doing it by editing the boot parameter.

Unfortunately, since yesterday I've lost the ground I had gained w/ BWP64 in terms of booting with my previously saved settings; now my Pup desktop is a pristine setup. What I see has been saved on the sdb2 is a dir dpupbw64save-Mike52 (not a .sfs file) and a tiny txt file dpupbw64initmodules.txt.

What I've been doing is booting from a ventoy stick which has BookwormPup64_10.0.10.iso, then when I get the ventoy boot menu I select that and choose to boot the alternate grub instead of conventional ventoy. At the next menu, when I have my BWP64 choices, I edit the boot parameter lines to psave=sdb2.

I think that previously that resulted in a dpupbw64save-Mike52.sfs file, but that is gone now, instead the part has the similarly named dir & txt file. So I'm confused.

I've found a topic to try to understand here about boot parameters: Boot Parameters in the Boot Stanza

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=5484

But, what I would rather do than improve whatever I'm doing wrong with the boot parameter manual entry would be to create a proper grub cfg file to put into the ventoy directory on the ventoy stick which had helped me somewhat when I was working with Easy, but ultimately failed.

[Clarity]

... I'm making useful progress here. I can now boot BWP64 from a ventoy and add the boot parameter psave=sdb2 from a message in a thread here (in which he was looking for another way to do it) and also get the session and system changes saved to another boot. I've also been improving my handling of permissions and ownership of the 2nd partition which is improving my access to the 'access-troublesome' internal sata ssd. Now that I've made some changes there, I might check and see if anything has improved for the Easy situation which dir/files I didn't erase when I added the psave .sfs. ...

Hello @measter , one member namely; @gumanzoy is a forum's who I regard as a Specialist in similar feature steps to achieve.

He may have a recommendation.

[measter]

Unfortunately, since yesterday I've lost the ground I had gained w/ BWP64 in terms of booting with my previously saved settings; now my Pup desktop is a pristine setup. What I see has been saved on the sdb2 is a dir dpupbw64save-Mike52 (not a .sfs file) and a tiny txt file dpupbw64initmodules.txt.

What I've been doing is booting from a ventoy stick which has BookwormPup64_10.0.10.iso, then when I get the ventoy boot menu I select that and choose to boot the alternate grub instead of conventional ventoy. At the next menu, when I have my BWP64 choices, I edit the boot parameter lines to psave=sdb2.

But, what I would rather do than improve whatever I'm doing wrong with the boot parameter manual entry would be to create a proper grub cfg file to put into the ventoy directory on the ventoy stick which had helped me somewhat when I was working with Easy, but ultimately failed.

Now I /believe/ I've regained the ground I lost, and I may have the workable solution I was seeking. It is possible some 'coverage' of my lack of success and its causes will help someone else w/ my same 'disabilities' in terms of what I'm not familiar with.

I spent quite a bit of 'uninformed'/inexperienced time messing with a ventoy grub cfg that wasn't working properly. What I did that succeeded was using Puppy tools; but first I'll mention something else I did. First I deleted the Puppy files I had written to a dir on the sata ssd, and rewrote them using the Frugal Pup installers. Next, since I was having so little success with my Ventoy grub cfg, I thought I would try the Super Grub2 Disk, thinking I would get an .iso I could write to ventoy and boot it and use it to boot what I had written in the sata ssd dir. That didn't work out for me. I dl/ed the SG2D .zip which contained an .img, but it wasn't a conventional .img like an .iso; so that's another area in which I'll have to improve my understanding. The bottom line is that SG2D didn't solve the problem for me.

Next, I went /back/ to Puppy tools, namely the Frugal pup installer and used it to write a root Puppy boot .iso which I saved to dissect. Then, dissecting that .iso, I took its grub .dfg and tweaked it of some of its trivial baggage and then used /that/ as the ventoy grub .cfg entry. Then I used Ventoy + F6 and its new entry to boot into this PBW64 I'm using now. Since it is operating from the sata ssd, I'm sure/hoping I will be able to save my next .sfs to that dev.

[Clarity]

Hello @measter So sorry for my delay getting back to answer your question(s). If still there is interest get back here and I will follow thru.

OK. PSAVE= is a Puppy parm...not a Ventoy parm. Ventoy's only responsibility is to launch an ISO or IMG file. Once launched, the distro (namely the ISO) sets up to boot where they pause at their boot menus.

When the ISO post the boot menu options to the display, that is where we can edit any of its entries to change/add additional boot parameters, such as PSAVE=.

Now, WoofCE PUPs for quite a long time have known of an error they have when launched from Ventoy. That error is that the PUP ignores the SAVESPEC that might be present in the boot-isos folder along with the ISO file(s). That error continues to persist. So since the SAVESPEC is ignored, we must get around the error by adding the PSAVE= parm to relay the specifics needed to save your session. This done by editing the boot-menu option of your choosing when the PUP put it up.

The PSAVE= does exactly what a SAVESPEC file does for the booting WoofCE PUP.

In other words, the SAVESPEC is designed to tell the booting PUP

• where the device is,

• which partition label to find/save your session

• and which folder, on the partition. the session is contained.

The PSAVE tell the booting PUP the same thing as shown in this example
PSAVE=Persistence:/Sessions/. Thus it says "the disk partition label is 'Persistence' and the folder-name where the session resides is 'Sessions'."

This, I hope, helps in understanding how WoofCE PUPs find the place where save-sessions are upon its booting as well as when its time to save what you did in using the PUP.

[measter]

Hello @measter So sorry for my delay getting back to answer your question(s). If still there is interest get back here and I will follow thru.

OK. PSAVE= is a Puppy parm...not a Ventoy parm. Ventoy's only responsibility is to launch an ISO or IMG file. Once launched, the distro (namely the ISO) sets up to boot where they pause at their boot menus.

When the ISO post the boot menu options to the display, that is where we can edit any of its entries to change/add additional boot parameters, such as PSAVE=.

Now, WoofCE PUPs for quite a long time have known of an error they have when launched from Ventoy. That error is that the PUP ignores the SAVESPEC that might be present in the boot-isos folder along with the ISO file(s). That error continues to persist. So since the SAVESPEC is ignored, we must get around the error by adding the PSAVE= parm to relay the specifics needed to save your session. This done by editing the boot-menu option of your choosing when the PUP put it up.

The PSAVE= does exactly what a SAVESPEC file does for the booting WoofCE PUP.

In other words, the SAVESPEC is designed to tell the booting PUP

• where the device is,

• which partition label to find/save your session

• and which folder, on the partition. the session is contained.

The PSAVE tell the booting PUP the same thing as shown in this example
PSAVE=Persistence:/Sessions/. Thus it says "the disk partition label is 'Persistence' and the folder-name where the session resides is 'Sessions'."

This, I hope, helps in understanding how WoofCE PUPs find the place where save-sessions are upon its booting as well as when its time to save what you did in using the PUP.

Thanks for that clarification. I have improved my understanding via a boot parm page
https://wikka.puppylinux.com/BootParam ... rect=no/
Currently things are working satisfactorily as I boot PBW64 from the sata ssd via Ventoy F6 custom entry. I also learned how to enable sticky keys 'automatically' by installing a Deb xkbset and making a sticky.sh file out of the 2 commands I want and putting that into the Startup.

Thanks for your help.