What Boot Settings for KLV-Airedale for Making Thumbdrive Last?

[JusGellin]

For a laptop that has 4GB memory, what would be good boot settings (grub2) for running this in memory and saving to usb thumb flashdrive on demand?
I would like to make the thumb drive last as long as it could.

Thanks

[geo_c]

For a laptop that has 4GB memory, what would be good boot settings (grub2) for running this in memory and saving to usb thumb flashdrive on demand?
I would like to make the thumb drive last as long as it could.

Thanks

When you installed KLV-Airedale, there is a file located in the install directory (unless you're doing iso booting which I'm not familiar with) named: wd_grubconfig. This is a script, and should be made executable. When you run it it will create a file named: grub_config.txt which contains the boot stanzas. All of these stanzas contain a parameter which reads: w_changes=RAM2

w_changes=RAM2 boots the OS in save-on-demand mode, so from there you simply run save2flash from the applications menu to save whatever changes are in ram.

HOWEVER, if you are booting from the internal hard drive and want to save the upper_changes on the USB, then someone else needs to add input on the topic, because I've never done that and don't know how it's accomplished.

@Clarity might be the guy to answer how to save sessions on a different drive than the OS.

[rockedge]

Here are the kernel command line options and parameters for FirstRib:

• distro : distro vmlinuz and modules/firmware that will be used

• w_bootfrom : vmlinuz/initrd.gz location, which might be a dir or a mounted iso (/mnt/iso)

• bootfromdir : like w_bootfrom but always the directory (e.g. even if iso loop being used; then its dir where iso is; whole path I think?)

• bootmnt : e.g. /mnt/sda2 or whatever partition was mounted (I think...); I believe bootpartition code could be derived from this as simplification

• mountfrom : where layers are mounted from. e.g. w_bootfrom dir or from layers_base/RAM

• w_changes : =""|media or RAM0|RAM1|RAM2 or no_uc0 or no_uc1, path2dir (for detailed comments refer lines 109 on)

• w_changes1 : =""|media or RAM0|RAM1|RAM2 or no_uc0 or no_uc1 (only for use when w_changes=path2dir

• w_altNN : alternative/additional location for NNfiles for mounting to the NN overlay layers

• w_rmmodule : Name of module from main list you don't want loaded

• w_addmodule : Name of extra module to load (modprobe)

• w_usbwait : wait seconds for slow devices (depreciated)

• w_copy2ram : is boolean 0(true) or 1(false) to copy all NNsfs, NNdirs, w_rdshN.plug to RAM

• w_debug : Debugging off (boolean 1 means false)

• layers_base : default is /mnt/layers/RAM for (upper_)w_changes=RAM and w_copy2ram storage in tmpfs

• uc_rw : usually for mounting savefile rw

• uc_ro : usually for mounting savefile ro or mount bind savefolder rw

• w_00modules : special option only - specifies 00modules arrangement as either lib or usrlib

For example saving upper_changes outside of the frugal install directory on a device called /mnt/sdb1 in a directory named /service and run in RAM2 mode:

Code: Select all

  title KLV-Airedale-sr16
  find --set-root uuid () 8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-sr16/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa=/KLV-Airedale-sr16  w_changes=/mnt/sdb1/service w_changes1=RAM2 net.ifnames=0
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-sr16/initrd.gz
  

[JusGellin]

@geo_c @rockedge
Thanks

I was thinking that I would still save to its usb drive.
But very seldom saving to it and only as needed.

Is what you showed as an example showing where the save folder would be stored?
w_changes=/mnt/sdb1/service

If the thumb drive that boots is on sdb1, then it would save there on its boot drive?

Also is there any way to monitor when it is accessing the thumb drive?

[williwaw]

does "making thumbdrive last"

mean you are concerned about the number of writes or working life of the thumbdrive?

there are different quality drives for sure. isn't the quality of the drive controller an important factor?

https://darwinsdata.com/why-are-usb-fla ... nreliable/

[JusGellin]

does "making thumbdrive last"

mean you are concerned about the number of writes or working life of the thumbdrive?

there are different quality drives for sure. isn't the quality of the drive controller an important factor?

https://darwinsdata.com/why-are-usb-fla ... nreliable/

I was thinking more of the writes, since this seems to have been brought up a lot and was the reason puppylinux was so good at handling
fewer writes to make a thumbdrive work well.

I seem to have a collection of usb drives, mostly with what I think are name brand and good.
I would like to put some of these to use.

Thanks

[williwaw]

my experience is a laptop drive (2.5") or M2 in a tethering arrangement works well, at least i have never experienced the sort of failures that happen with USB thumb drives.

most "quality" discussions about external drives are more about speed, but since I use an older computer, those sort of evaluations are not useful.

you often times get what you pay for, so trying to save on something that we use frequently compared to non puppy users probally is not the best.

[geo_c]

@geo_c @rockedge
Thanks

I was thinking that I would still save to its usb drive.
But very seldom saving to it and only as needed.

Is what you showed as an example showing where the save folder would be stored?
w_changes=/mnt/sdb1/service

If the thumb drive that boots is on sdb1, then it would save there on its boot drive?

Also is there any way to monitor when it is accessing the thumb drive?

I think looking at what @rockedge posted what you need is:
w_changes=/mnt/sdb1/service
AND
w_changes1=RAM2

It's the second parameter that allows you to save on demand using save2flash, as in the example in @rockedge's code box.

[rockedge]

I think one can use the partition UUID like this to target the partition holding the upper_changes and boot into RAM2 mode.
Remember that all the UUID and LABEL names are for example purposes only and will need to be swapped with your values.

example using the UUID for /mnt/sdc1/persistence and enabling RAM2 mode on one of my computers

Code: Select all

w_bootfrom=UUID=8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa=/KLV-Airedale-sr17  w_changes=UUID=8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa=/persistence  w_changes1=RAM2

example using the LABEL for /mnt/sdc1/persistence and enabling RAM2 mode

Code: Select all

w_bootfrom=LABEL=mainsys=/KLV-Airedale-sr17 w_changes=LABEL=psystem=/persistence  w_changes1=RAM2

example of a simple command line booting in normal RAM mode:

Code: Select all

w_bootfrom=/mnt/sda1/KLV-Airedale-sr17 w_changes=/mnt/sdc1/persistence

[Clarity]

@JusGellin and forum members.

Persistence is unique to the particular PC where it was created! There is danger in attempting to use a USB with persistence on ANY other PC than the one it was created.

Advice (if you choose to consider) is to ONLY use persistence on the PC where it was 1st created AND

• I advise that if you use a persistence (aka Linux formatted partition) labeled ensuring you ONLY have 1 partition named "Persistence" on a PC

• For house-keeping you create a folder on the Persistence partition named Sessions

• Put it on a system-drive (avoid any persitence on any USB for the occasional problems they have in reliability, performance, longevity). If a USB problem surfaces in persistence use you 'will' pull your hair out attempting to both understand and find the problem.

In my experiences since adopting this practice, ALL forum distro's sessions are kept in the Sessions folder on the partition labeled Persistence with NO ERRORS or ISSUES for a number of years; including all of the KL, WoofCE, DOG and derivative distros are kept there as well.

Thus, if you have multiple PCs, create a Persistence partition with a Session folder on each and every.

Hope this info is helpful ... also Thanks goes out to @rockedge for the boot-parm listing he shared earlier. It is not necessary for Persistence in the way the KLs are implemented, but useful for futures if/when needed.

P.S. KL distros have their boot-menus structure to take advantage of ANY PC that has a partition labeled Persistence with a Session folder. KLs also, intelligently, accommodate the various different KLs sessions as there is no overlap or misuse in multiple versions or distros. Simply, if you have a partition labeled Persistence they properly place your sessions for you without your need as a user to do anything! KLs make persistence all too easy for member use.

[JusGellin]

@Clarity
Thanks.
I appreciate you sharing your experience and advice.

I'm still learning and like to look at possibilities.

When you need to look at other pc's and laptops to help troubleshoot them, do you have a thumbdrive that has utilities on it to help you troubleshoot?
In that case the pc you are looking at may not be one the thumbdrive that was made for so it wouldn't have a persistence partition at least initially.
But just for troubleshooting it wouldn't seem that the thumbdrive would need this anyway.
That's where Ventoy would be useful for this thumdrive to be more universal and not something that is continuously used.

Also if you had a pc that you didn't want to use its internal ssd drive, what do you think about the newer ssd thumb drives?
They are coming down in price.
That might be an alternative to replacing the internal drive and still have a working computer. That also may not be the fastest way to run a computer,
through its USB, but it still could be workable.
Then it could be made to have its own Persistence partition to work with, if it was necessary.

I'm not necessarily doing this but just would like to know what your thoughts are and what you may be using to troubleshoot pc's that may
come your way. And as a rookie, I'm just looking at what is possible.

Thanks

[Clarity]

Explanation: Merely boot an ISO file and save its session

@Clarity
...
When you need to look at other pc's and laptops to help troubleshoot them, do you have a thumbdrive that has utilities on it to help you troubleshoot?
...
That's where Ventoy would be useful for this thumdrive to be more universal and not something that is continuously used. ...

I understand.

For years, at this point in Puppyland, I work using the simplest of the efforts to boot PCs. This comes for using same/similar methods for over 3 decades. Simple methods to boot (no matter the PC) and in Puppyland, simple maintenance of fully operational OSes via their "session-management" services.

I DO NOT install either full/frugal OSes on any PCs in over 6 years, now. This was inspired by a conversation with @jamesbond. This led to SuperGrub2Disk (SG2D) followed by Ventoy when it became available on the booting assistance scene. BOTH of these, in essence, attack the same problem, having a portable media that can be transported to various PCs and boot from an ISO file the PC when there. This concept was initially termed "Live" abooting, BUT, in Puppyland, with session-management distros, I view this as an ISO file based frugal operations of all forum distros. Further, in KLs, @wiak and @rockedge has simplified to further to ease user adoption of KLs while reducing user errors; BOTH, in booting as well as in session-management.

Specifically to answer: I have varied ISO files that do various things. Using the forum distros, @fatdog has its session-management parms, KLs has its sessions-management parms, WoofCEs have its session-mangement parms, DOGs have its session-management parms.

So, in a simple house-keeping manner, on a system-drive I keep ALL of the varied distro's sessions in a single place & single folder; namely on the Persistence partition in its Sessions folder

In a nutshell, I have a Ventoy USB that has the following in its "BOOTISOS" folder

• SG2D ISO

• WoofCE ISOs

• KL ISOs

• DOG ISO

• and many-many ISOs found on distro watch

all on a 64GB (size does not matter) USB stick. You can put ANY bootable ISO/IMG file of your choice and it will be booted.

For any NEW PC that I boot the USB stick on, those ISOs (ALL OF THEM) have GParted or similar (Windows Parted) where I will carve a partition for Persistence, label it Persistence, and upon its desktop add a Sessions folder to it.

I assume you can see the simplicity of this.

No installations, NO GRUB2 changes, no chance of mistyping or creations of errors, or any of the normal things I have witnessed so many on the forum make, by accident or lack of understandings.

Important to my arrival at this is a few technical operational understandings of motherboards that I wont get into. But the following I have repeated before:

1. Your system's drive (new or used) is extremely reliable. So I keep Persistence on the most reliable storage that every PCs is equipped.

2. The USB, though small, in ONLY used at boot time and never, subsequently, written to. This means little to no chance of the typical erroneous issues that surface in USB use. Thoughts that somehow USB cheap is "somehow beneficial" is rendered unimportant because the USB is only used to boot the PC and never used again reducing any user error on my part for its importance in reuse.

I boot anything and save the session for future when I want to pick up where I left off. Fool-proof for years; simple to visually understand, FAST to implement as I merely download an ISO and boot...nothing more! AND, I can boot my USB within VMs when I have need.

If you find this info useful, run with it...otherwise ignore.

[wiak]

I think one can use the partition UUID like this to target the partition holding the upper_changes and boot into RAM2 mode.
Remember that all the UUID and LABEL names are for example purposes only and will need to be swapped with your values.

example using the UUID for /mnt/sdc1/persistence and enabling RAM2 mode on one of my computers

Code: Select all

w_bootfrom=UUID=8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa=/KLV-Airedale-sr17  w_changes=UUID=8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa=/persistence  w_changes1=RAM2

example using the LABEL for /mnt/sdc1/persistence and enabling RAM2 mode

Code: Select all

w_bootfrom=LABEL=mainsys=/KLV-Airedale-sr17 w_changes=LABEL=psystem=/persistence  w_changes1=RAM2

example of a simple command line booting in normal RAM mode:

Code: Select all

w_bootfrom=/mnt/sda1/KLV-Airedale-sr17 w_changes=/mnt/sdc1/persistence

The above examples are definitely the best way to arrange for persistence (savefolder placement and keep changes in RAM until a save2flash done).

Using the likes of /mnt/sdXY is not so good since no guarantee the partition /mnt/sdXY location will not change between reboots - hence better to use either UUID or LABEL method.

Note that there is absolutely no need to use a partition named Persistence or a subdirectory called Sessions inside it, not even with Ventoy. However, it has been made easier especially for Ventoy to use that defined combination.

In a normal frugal install any LABEL could be used and any savefolder containing directory. FirstRib-based KL places no restrictions on any of these.

You can even use alternatives similarly with Ventoy by simply putting same commands in special file w_initconfig in the boot folder, which will take precedence at boot time.

My own opinion is that if a user is a raw beginner who is finding a straight frugal install difficult to understand, which is very possible, then trying Ventoy 'might' be found easier for them. However, personally I actually find Ventoy a bit more difficult since you first have to create a special Ventoy disk and the boot process is somewhat more complicated in practice since Ventoy itself has to first detect where the bootfrom iso is located. Worst problem is that things can sometimes get a bit mixed up since the FR initrd is not passed any info regarding where the iso is so has to do its own search and if two isos are on the system things can get very mixed up!!! Overall, I don't think Ventoy is any easier in practice, except once the raw beginner has past the initial getting Ventoy installed and working step, but same could be said for a straight frugal install, which is more simply a matter of extracting an iso to a folder, for which simple tools are near enough always provided (no need to go find a Ventoy installation program for that method).

Main advantage with Ventoy on use stick is that it includes a working grub2, and if you actually want to play with multiple installs, once you have mastered Ventoy it is usually indeed just a simple matter of adding isos.
Grub2 is never really an issue for any sort of frugal install though, despite the lack of knowledge many have about doing that. If you already have a mainstream Linux install then you already have a working grub2 on your machine (that's what I use), or if not, the likes of Puppy and KL now I think have simple utilities for installing grub2 to a disk (including usb disk). Clarity, however, adores Ventoy and only advocates for that, but truth is the vast majority of Linux users (and especially non-beginners) normally use direct frugal installs. Up to the user of course. I will continue to be frank by saying that Ventoy has some limitations compared to a direct traditional frugal install - but most overlay save persistence features work just the same and as well.

Note, however, that I too do like to keep a copy of Ventoy on a usb stick handy. It is indeed great for quick iso testing without having to think about installing grub2 - this is the big plus Ventoy has as a utility IMO.