Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I will begin here an information step by step how you can build yourself easily your own Puppy Linux like distro based on Debian SID (I will myself use Devuan Ceres to avoid systemD) offering the possibility like Puppy Linux to start entirely from RAM without having to use some feeble save system (file/folder tree). I do that actually with Puppy since about 2010 (as the forum user -> schutzhund <- , the probably first Puppy user having more than 100 PCs to use, that is the origin of the user-name, on German, it says -> protections dog <- ) did us learn the method to avoid at the source indiscretions.

On French: look at viewtopic.php?t=10903
On German: look at viewtopic.php?t=10901

The Tutor itself will appear here in (my bad) English: viewtopic.php?t=10903

Always interesting to have step to step building tutorials of other distros than those followed otherwise on this forum. That provides new ideas and mechanisms we can, if useful, copy and improve in our own productions. So let's hope the promised offering is as good and less feeble, in terms of savefile/folder, as you say it is!

the probably first Puppy user having more than 100 PCs to use.......

Sind sie nicht aber wahrscheinlich dicht dran.

Interesting proposal. Will this then be some type of Pseudo Full Install that somehow retains customization configurations? Similar to what Kennel Linux can do or what @gyrog is working on with Puppy Linux's? Or will it be more a Kiosk type of distro that is always the same like a Geldautomat?

What exactly will be "Puppy Linux like" (as the subject title says) about your project ?
(looks to me as building a special version of a "Devuan Live" distro, not much Puppy similarity I'd say, but correct me if I'm wrong).
And... how are changes going to be saved ?

Good questions fred as well as wiak and thank you for the interest..

Perhaps you consider Puppy is Puppy and secure and it was always was Puppy and secure!

No!

I did use now and contribute in a few week 20 y. ago as our son did bring one PC virus after the next at home... I have in my old CD box really used by us Puppy's since vers. 0,27. I have an old CD-RW with real old content vers. probably 1.5 or 1.6 (an the old bookPC made in China able to start and read it). I have the marvelloes old Puppy 2.0 with integrated free Office in less as 100 MB. And I did use then daily without some virus within 20 y. And it would be dfifficult to agress my data as Puppy contains nothing and my /root/.mozilla comes exactly with the content I did decide myself into the iso and is each day exactly that and not was advertisement specialist would wish to track me . This "Erkenntnis" (Google says Understanding, but I am not happy with that translation. My problem: I don't know some other word, also in French. In French would I perhaps say Realisme) did our old friend Schutzhund (see first message) teach us, His 100 Puppy user were almost of legal age in a middle school with technical orientation, all boys and girls in age to try terrible experiments to law about somewhere in the school as young people are: They are not inoffensive...

Save file is wrong!

Little messages (greeting / help etc.) are wrong.

If I don't will some -> man <- or -> info <- I need nothing to help excepted a classic menu!

Since 20 years I angry about the little windows: Hello, since 20 y. I am greeting you. Hello, since 20 y. you do nothing into the first settings I open each session after each restart, I considere, as I am completely silly diilly and not as a computer it has to be a new start from a completely uninformed new user coming from MS-Windows (MS-Windows has more respect against users!). Hello, you know exactly which one did publish this version! Read this greeting text!

Schutzhund did require from user RSH (he did devolop his special version) to erase all that smudge! Young adults would without that never accept seriously to use...

In the version from RSH, you did start immediately the job from CD image without some diversion! Puppy is 20 y. old this y. or last y.! It is not an not known Linux! It was in the head formation at distrowatch and the sum of it and EasyOS bringt it in high position in that ranking! Puppy is an established Linux and don't need since very longer than 10 y. no advertisement any more for saving file but only an item in menu "always save quitting the session", no little windows to destroy the time of the users using out the RAM in the old Puppy manier from the beginnings years of Puppy (ab. vers. 3.0, it was relatively new at Puppy but also at Linux! But now? Thousand of users know Puppy totaly well and did use it in the past! New users have to learn to use a menu! New developpers did not hesite at all to erase the triangle of helping icons at the top left corner of the Puppy window!)...

« how are changes going to be saved ?»

a)

with refractasnapshot of course! You get a CD image with perfect grub menu with the best set of options

• start (non installed but not from RAM)
• start if problems
• start from RAM (exactly like Puppy "first start"; you can disconnect the USB stick/card
• start IN AN OTHER LANGUAGE you can decide yourself at starting time! Waoooooooh!
  etc.

to install, you MUST start and invoke the refractainstaller, THE BEST INSTALLATIONS TOOL until now (you can install in command line if you don't install the facultative GUI. You have ALWAYS the option to install a complexe keyboard (DE CH, IN TAM, US INTL etc.). You have ALWAYS the option to set the option "start without login", you have always the option to select new password for root and user and to decide an other user name Ask user Exton from this forum, see https://extix.se, he also is as I a fan from refracta! And as soo your installation is finish, you can re-snapshot your new edition with those parameter.

my Puppy like from yesterday has a minimal XFCE4, Seamonkey (also has end point for libxine), didiwiki, pulseaudio, etc (not all as I don't all use in Puppy), is Ceres-SI, and has a size under 800 MB what Puppys from today, not SID sized, can also rich easily sometimes without some devx included! My upload from 29. February (for a friend having birthday at this date) did fit into a (very old) USB card from 2 GB (from 20 y. old portable phone from my daughter!) and have all terribly large applications (kdenlive, rosegarden, marble etc.) included!

b)

In all my PC (I use really 5 different PCs one on the desk in my office work room, one as companion near the TV to look TV from internet with Petihar's Puppy Triton, one in my sport room to look the terrible long ashtanga yoga workout and learn it exactly, here I use mainly a old Dogpup as it is an old laptop, one in my workshop where I realize what I elaborate with freeCAD, and a travel laptop being more light and having the laptop adapter for SIM card to be independant from WLAN of hotels etc.) I try to maintain the same organisation:

• in the extended partition, sda5 is swap
• sda6 is data partition
• and the divers installed linux full installations begin with sda7 etc .

so that, ALSO in my actual Puppy remaster since the time of Busterpup (I use the Busterpup 32 from josejp24, thank you very much! Sorry for the little windows...) because of XFCE4 (did give me, in a Puppy, to have a commutable keyboard through hitting CRTL + CAPS, all other Puppy resists usually to that use) and I have, in the remastered version a new folder, name -> 0 <-, so it is always on top, and a line in /etc/fstad to connect sda6 as home folder. at remastering time, I un-comment that line to avoid to save 3/4 TB in the Puppy remasterisation but I restaure it as Puppy remaster ask if I will change at about finish time somewhat in /etc ! It is so simply to avoid to need some save file ... I can't understand the other Puppyists and developers!

Thanks, OK let me try to understand (don't know much about refracta):

Quoting from Refracta README:

refracta2usb:
Creates a live-USB from a live-CD iso file or from a running
live system.

refractainstaller:
Installs a running live CD or USB to hard drive, copying any additions
or changes that were made during the live session.

refractasnapshot:
Makes a bootable live-CD image from your installed system, copying any
additions or changes you've made to the system.

Re: « how are changes going to be saved ?»

Say I made a bootable live-CD image and use refracta2usb to make a live-USB and I boot it.
Simple question: If I change e.g. the wallpaper, how is it saved at next boot ?
Using Save file ? Save partition ? (similar as Debian Live, "persistence" labeled) Or add a .squashfs or .sfs with the change included, or... ?
Or do I need to make a new snapshot again to include the new wallpaper setting ?

refracta tools are only tools and methods.

each has it's own conf.file. one file is present for average needs.

with a exclude list, you can let fall down or include complete parts of your system.

if you transmit it to other, you can exclude all sensible hidden files or folders.

if you use yourself your snapshot, you will probably not exclude your ~/.mozilla with all your cookies, passwords etc. You need then on all PC's excepted perhaps on, in my case, my travel laptop!

The build is extremely fast (on adequate PC's. My actual PC is i7 with only 4 core und 8 GB RAM, my last PC (that I continue to use sometime has 7 core and really faster).

But GENIAL is the installer, after you have learnd the succession of the great number of (clear) options...

Not answering my question how changes are saved once you boot a live-USB.

It is not designed specially as method to build live CD's: It is a method to snapshot your changes, all the changes if you don't exclude somewhat! Only the config file makes it usuable as method to create CD images to use the image as live-installation!

if you start live the CD image, your ~/ data are protected in live usage else if they are present. to get then again, you must install. The usernames (for both superuser and every day user) and password are not protected but can be easily changed. if you have enough RAM, you can install in the RAM to do it fast and immediately re-snapshot to save that neutral version of both pairs (pair root/. and user/. or user/. or, in extix builds from Exton user/live). if something crashes, it is probably in this part of the system...

refracta is also a complete small distribution derivated from Devuan. Best is to test it: https://get.refracta.org/files/daedalus/ (is only ab. 6 month as daedalus became "stable" and uses the normal depositories from Devuan).

refracta to usb:

I never use that! all with -> dd <- and never some problem but

images under 4 GB always in FAT16

and

if the 4 GB (*1 card did good work last use with precedent snapshots, directly use dd (without new table + without new formating + without mark again flag "boot" ! Yes, that goes well!)

dd if=/root/Downloads/*iso of=/dev/sdb status=progress

but, very important, your PC see your USB port as -> sdb <- (control it in gparted!)

Over 4 GB image size squashed you must format the bigger stick of course in fat32... No problem all is the same!

(*1 the size of the USB memory can be each one. I did install Puppy on a stick with 2 TERRA bytes. Puppy did start but the reste of the 2 TB was not usuable on my old PC's (as they have not the right USB Port! : the 2TBstick did react so as if it was written by an USB1 port...)

@fredx181

I've having trouble following this too and think we are battling a big language barrier. Looking at the refracta programs and oui's post, the best I can tell it is something like what AntilX and MX Linux use for their frugal installs.

wizard

Refracta is an operating system designed for home computer users. It provides a simple and familiar layout that most users will find very comfortable.

Refracta also includes special tools - refractainstaller, refractasnapshot and refracta2usb - that allow you to customize your installation and create a live-CD or live-USB of your running system. These tools will work on most Debian or Devuan-based systems.

seems that using these tools to build a frugal type installation then with some kind of custom persistence mechanism to preserve any configuration changes added in.......I read and speak German but that hasn't helped making either thread any clearer.....yet.

I remember reading about Refracta on the Devuan message board.

I don't remember the details, but it's another layered/live file system like Puppy, Anti-X or Debian Dog/Porteus that does all the usual stuff you'd expect it to.

please calm!

I note I loose actually my time instead to continue my tutors in 3 tongues (de - en - fr), it is a big job, to discuss with people not ready to

try and experiment yourself!

The above link to refracta, ok, bring you to a to derivate iso (it is the reason why I did not use it: I will only use the tools and depositories of Debian/Devuan, I only prefer NO-SYSTEMD), I remember the link

https://get.refracta.org/files/daedalus/

You can alternatively test following link

https://e.pcloud.link/publink/show?code … u7khtj1gSV

(this one is the mirror of the result I will rich not any more with the design from star but using only the depository from Debian / Devuan and their completely normal tools without to have to know before that some special design).

both fit on a key / memory card with only 2 GB size!

yes, you are right! it is not Puppy linux; I did correctly write "like" (the hidden moon face is also the moon although it is different)!

both iso's include the refracta tools and demonstrate the power of then!

I am sorry: Debian does nothing more excepted to constantly reduce our choices and Ubuntu did KILL modern Linux for millions or perhaps billions of users having only poor i386 pc's...

oui wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:15 pm

please calm!

I THINK what is being proposed is a method to transform a running distro (albeit a PUP) into a full installed version where sessions are eliminated.

Its just another form of placing a running system in a simgle operation running as has been typical since 1984.

Knoppix and Puppy were couple of the first mainstream distros that offered an alternative to a 'single system image without the need for persistence'. Thus the concept that each of these purport is that you have a never-changing base with all system changes maintain in a persistence format. In Puppyland, we call this Frugal no matter if you boot it from CD/DVD/read-write media/ISO file; as it follows the concept of an never-changing base with additions added in the form of persistence.

IN what we refer to as a full-install is an all-in-one file-system that can run from RAM or read-writable media that does NOT have a built-in concept of persistence. Thus single system, full system, whatever its called is, by each user, a constantly changing OS operation same as traditional Unix, DOS, Windows, FreeBSD, ChromeOS, EASY, etc.

Thus Refracta is a utility service to take the system it is running in and create a single-system, full-install leaving out the concept of persistence, IMHO.

Again, this is a personal observation. I recognize that it may not be universally agreed.

In order to build Puppy Linux like distro. The following conditions must be met:

1. The rootfs must be layered filesystem
2. The initrd can load save file, mount image files, build rootfs, and switch root
3. The kernel modules don't include inside initrd. Instead it contains in a separate image file.
4. Can create save files and load it upon boot
5. Can load sfs modules (optional)
6. The kernel must have builtin modules for USB, Storage devices, filesystems, and layered filesystem.

@mistfire: If you use the proprieties according you items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 of your list, not automaticly from system, but extra, DAILY, you, yourself in for example your terminal invoke the binaries being actors of those propriety and more, I agree with your note.

but: how many Puppists do that

and

why are those proprieties needing in Puppy and not in other systems ?

@clarity:

oh no, no, no!

also Puppy

can save the session, yes, it's right!

but it can't start, or very difficult, start today with the exact knowledge and full changes of the session from yesterday and restart tomorrow in one of those both sessions categories as you want because a remaster is NOT a snapshot of your actual situation and offers only few options and the restart is very ugly with all the little greeting and quitting windows being not so programmed that they disappear themself after 10 seconds but stay on the desktop requiring action to get then away...

Please, try the snapshot! you will soon see the difference...

Here is my (cleaned ) bash_history to install Refracta Linux, Daedalus version, for AMD 64.

The SNAPSHOT that you need is here:

https://get.refracta.org/files/daedalus ... 9_1853.iso

Burn it on a USB stick as above

Install the no X in a fresh partition starting with the live USB stick version

install following /home/user/.bash_history (=simple text file as user named "user" with passwd "user", root would be "root") into that subdirectory

restart as user "user"

and begin to play with the CURSOR UP key of your keyboard and follow the instructions hints and tips

(read see perhaps first beginning with the bottom, not at the top! )

and enjoy your fresh new install from the stable Devuan = Debian without systemD.

After finishing, you get an ISO with ab. 1,5 GB size that you can start in RAM like a Puppy and have to fat it with your loving apps with synaptic or aptitude or, as I do, apt!

A commande line office is preinstalled!

#
## TOP (top = the last commandes are on top! the first commandes are at the foot! Look at the bottom of this bash_history snapshot!)
#
# The base installation is complete!
# UUID=YOU 'LL FIND IT USING GPARTED	/home/user/0	ext2	defaults	0	2
# Line to add in /etc/fstab see precedent line! In gparted look under tab "Partition" the last item "Information"!
# add the precedent line (adapted to y REAL situation) in /etc/fstab
sudo mkdir /home/user/0
# y can now test. if all good bind y sd6 (my data partition) in /etc/fstab. 
# usefull line for /etc/jwm/system.jwmrc:  <Background type="image">/usr/share/slim/themes/default/background.jpg</Background>
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm  network-manager dbus-session-bus libteam-utils polkitd-pkla  policykit-1 modemmanager ppp dnsmasq-base dns-root-data libmbim-utils libqmi-utils usb-modeswitch wireless-regdb comgt wvdial network-manager-openvpn sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm  network-manager dbus-session-bus libteam-utils polkitd-pkla  policykit-1 modemmanager ppp dnsmasq-base dns-root-data libmbim-utils libqmi-utils usb-modeswitch wireless-regdb comgt wvdial network-manager-openvpn kde-plasma-desktop konsole konqueror  synaptic gparted mgp qml-module-org-kde-kitemmodels slim
# complete y install with slim if n already done with jwm!
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm  network-manager dbus-session-bus libteam-utils polkitd-pkla  policykit-1 modemmanager ppp dnsmasq-base dns-root-data libmbim-utils libqmi-utils usb-modeswitch wireless-regdb comgt wvdial network-manager-openvpn sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm  network-manager dbus-session-bus libteam-utils polkitd-pkla  policykit-1 modemmanager ppp dnsmasq-base dns-root-data libmbim-utils libqmi-utils usb-modeswitch wireless-regdb comgt wvdial network-manager-openvpn kde-plasma-desktop konsole konqueror  synaptic gparted mgp qml-module-org-kde-kitemmodels > 4zKDEappLauncher
# actually, there were an error: y have to install above dependency to really get the app launcher of KDE
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm  network-manager dbus-session-bus libteam-utils polkitd-pkla  policykit-1 modemmanager ppp dnsmasq-base dns-root-data libmbim-utils libqmi-utils usb-modeswitch wireless-regdb comgt wvdial network-manager-openvpn sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm  network-manager dbus-session-bus libteam-utils polkitd-pkla  policykit-1 modemmanager ppp dnsmasq-base dns-root-data libmbim-utils libqmi-utils usb-modeswitch wireless-regdb comgt wvdial network-manager-openvpn kde-plasma-desktop konsole konqueror synaptic gparted mgp > IKDE> IKDE
# now install KDE minimum, ab. 1 GB actually!
# reboot now 
nano /etc/network/interfaces
# get demark all lines in above file
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm  network-manager dbus-session-bus libteam-utils polkitd-pkla  policykit-1 modemmanager ppp dnsmasq-base dns-root-data libmbim-utils libqmi-utils usb-modeswitch wireless-regdb comgt wvdial network-manager-openvpn > Iinterfaces
startx
# y can now look at /etc/jwm/system.jwmrc and add the picture of slim or do it later after z install of KDE a probably make a ss for justKDE!
# Note : z interactivity of z consoles F1, F2, F3 etc is great! w CTRL+ALT+DEL y can reboot y PC!
# (to return to console enter "exit" in the open terminal or go to z nxt console w CTRL+ALT+F2)sudo xinit
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc sudo wordgrinder xorg menu jwm > /home/user/IxorgMenuJwm
# STEP 20: installg X and jwm
# y have now a ISO "smartCLdate" (smart commande line actual at the date)
sudo refractasnapshot
sudo umount mnt # y don want to ss all y data (my = 1TB!) in the ISO
#event. remove all exc. wordgrinder!
deborphan
sudo apt auto-remove
# one "reboot" here wld be best!
sudo apt upgrade
sudo apt upgrade > u0
# STEP 10: refresh y system end'g w.ss
# if y partition too small, y dnt get some iso! clean y "/home", if possible, make "room" and do:  cd /home & ls & sudo rmdir snapshot & cd work & sudo rmdir iso & sudo rmdir myfs & cd .. sudo rmdir work & cd ..
sudo rmdir /home/snapshot
sudo mv /home/snapshot/* /mnt/target_path # y have ranger! use it...
# do that after each ss! I 'lln repeat those instructions!
sudo mount /dev/sda6 /mnt # sda5 i my swap, sda6 my ext2 data partition!
# move y ss as y 'lln record it again in z nxt ss (y can complete z target path!)
sudo ss # refractasnapshot
# make y first rSS (refractaSnapShot)
sudo ln -s /usr/bin/refractasnapshot /usr/bin/ss
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc wordgrinder
sudo apt install alsaplayer alsa-tools aptitude clex cups deborphan didiwiki gpm info links2 ranger samba sc wordgrinder > /home/user/IaplayerAtoolsAptiClexCupsDorphanDidiGpmInfosLinks2RangerSambaScWgrinder
# STEP 01: y now can install a small <command line office> : all that work in commande line (links2 without picture function but works! with didiwik allows smart writing with bold, underlined a italic!)
# feed now (or later, if y prefer a full install of the next steps! but dnt forget!!!) y /etc/apt/apt.conf !
sudo apt update
# STEP 00: after install using  a refractainstaller, the depository dates in the actual system are empty, update to get the dates again!
#
## BOTTOM = BEGIN HERE ABOVE LINES!
#
chown user:user -R /home/user/*
xrandr -o left
xrandr -o  normal
setxkbmap us intl
alsamixer

I recommend to install the real KDE office if you will have a smart Linux starting directly from the ISO (see that thread at the Devuan forum https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=49137#p49137 ). The installation of some star office family office is to install an fully developed adult mammoth in the basket of a puppy trow !

Experiment using apt install somewhat > Isomwhat.txt what each app will use of the installed capacity and what combinations like apt install abiword gnumeric evince will do compared with install calligrawords calligrasheet and, and nothing in this case as konqueror IS a document viewer and as browser presinstalled! And check parallel which «suggested» and «recommend» you will perhaps miss, depending of your jobs, if you don't install then, alternatively for ex. abiword can't offer to you at all (in the old forum, I did write a detailed howto in 3 languages feelfull some administrative form exactly (administrative background and integrate perfectly text, eventually form the sheet from an app as OOsheets - this is probably, today after the transition to Gnome3, still NOT possible with the office combination of Gnome , or have you some different experience?).

I am a step further now:

https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=6521.

But I will continue to translate in de and fr the above thread slowly as it is not so urgent: the new method is ACTUALLY (depending of the actual situation at the Ceres = SID depository from Devuan! It can tomorrow become impossible to use is some packages are so actualized that dependencies are missing! It is so in SID !!!) is better, easier and don't need some explanation . But it is based on the above things!