Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

thanks rockedge

looks fantastic

thanks for doing all this work

i will email distrowatch

wanderer

radky wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:23 am

PS - The delayed release of upstream Debian Bookworm 12.6 is now scheduled for 29 June 2024. Consequently, the upcoming BookwormPup64 10.7 should be available shortly thereafter.

It's the first time the developer of a "mainstream" Puppy has this degree of commitment: doesn't disappear after one release and keeps building point releases with bug fixes and security updates. Thank you @radky!

hi rockedge and everyone

the email to distrowatch giving them the link to our new bookwormpup submission page has been sent

thank you rockedge and everyone for all your work

wanderer

One small consideration:

In the statement below, maybe remove "See Note-1 below" since that comment does not actually exist in this presentation.

Fixed the text!

Perhaps there should be a link inserted for a second page that contains all of the change logs? I feel like it would satisfy the tech savvy to have such a page added to the portal page.

If so can someone provide me with a document that has the change logs listed so I can construct the page?

dimkr wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 12:56 pm

It's the first time the developer of a "mainstream" Puppy has this degree of commitment: doesn't disappear after one release and keeps building point releases with bug fixes and security updates.

OK - message received loud and clear - S15Pup & BookwormPup32 are not "mainstream" and the regular updates are not noticed or appreciated! I may as well "disappear"!

https://sourceforge.net/projects/pb-gh-releases/files/

peebee wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 4:04 pm

OK - message received loud and clear - S15Pup & BookwormPup32 are not "mainstream" and the regular updates are not noticed or appreciated!

I'm sure many users appreciate your work.

However, the woof-CE commit log is very quiet (<10 commits per month?), while BookwormPup64 includes extra fixes and improvements. BookwormPup32 lags behind BookwormPup64 and isn't 100% equivalent because nobody volunteered to continue https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/4279. If Puppy development is a tree, then the BookwormPup64 leaf is more green than other woof-CE leaves, which use the same woof-CE and same (unmaintained?) .pet packages.

please peebee

you are creating great work
and have created great work
without you puppy would not exist

what started as an attempt to be inclusive
has gotten out of hand
and become an unintentional slight to people who have for so long created so much

my primary distro is upup32
it is without peer
and i cannot thank you enough for all your work

please continue your work
and realize that everyone appreciates what you do

wanderer

dimkr wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:18 pm

I'm sure many users appreciate your work.

However............

You sound just like about every film producer and or director I've worked with....."that really had something....but......".

@peebee don't take @dimkr's statements literally....the guy has room for improvement with the weak social engineering skills.

I'm German...I know when someone is talking plainly (cultural thing) or being a dick. You might have to look up the slang but I am assuming you get the gist.

dimkr wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 5:18 pm

BookwormPup64 includes extra fixes and improvements. BookwormPup32 lags behind BookwormPup64 and isn't 100% equivalent

What is different other than the advertised differences?? Not had any reports of differences!

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 6:24 pm

You sound just like about every film producer and or director I've worked with....."that really had something....but......".

Hey, it's good to know, Rick!
Are you a former film producer or director or screenwriter?

An old friend of mine, who used to work in Hollywood for decades
told me that the majority of actors are jerks.
I replied that a similar fact applies to IT where the majority of
developers have inflated egos (sad but true).

Everything on our forum is 100% voluntary. Nobody writes checks.
No one is under any responsibility. We do what we do.

Are you a former film producer or director or screenwriter?

Gaffer, in German, Beleuchter and Oberbeleuchter. I did set lighting for cinematography, documentaries and television. And a few music videos. Did some lighting for a private theater in Hamburg Germany for a year. Usually my boss was the Director of Photography, 1st Camera or whoever was holding one and was responsible that the content looks good.

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 3:13 pm

Perhaps there should be a link inserted for a second page that contains all of the change logs? I feel like it would satisfy the tech savvy to have such a page added to the portal page.

If so can someone provide me with a document that has the change logs listed so I can construct the page?

Changelog for each release of BW64:

viewtopic.php?p=89021#p89021

@peebee - please don't disappear. Your work is much appreciated by many - especially me. It seems that Slackware 64bit (& 32bit in general) doesn't have as high a user base as Debian 64bit does now, or as many folk working on it.

peebee wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:53 pm

What is different other than the advertised differences?? Not had any reports of differences!

The list of "advertised differences" can't be correct if BookwormPup64 is built with one woof-CE tree (with many changes) while BookwormPup32 is built with stock woof-CE.

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/4279 is very partial (I even wrote what's missing in the PR description), it doesn't include all the changes done to woof-CE to produce 10.0.6.

You'll get very big output if you do a recursive diff between BoomwormPup64 and BookwormPup32 (what I did to find these changes and extract them).

As I said earlier, the woof-CE commit log is very quiet (correct me if I'm wrong), so if you want more "free" bug fixes and polish, maybe you'd want to find these differences and upstream them.

dimkr wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:52 am

peebee wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:53 pm

What is different other than the advertised differences?? Not had any reports of differences!

The list of "advertised differences" can't be correct if BookwormPup64 is built with one woof-CE tree (with many changes) while BookwormPup32 is built with stock woof-CE.

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/4279 is very partial (I even wrote what's missing in the PR description), it doesn't include all the changes done to woof-CE to produce 10.0.6.

You'll get very big output if you do a recursive diff between BoomwormPup64 and BookwormPup32 (what I did to find these changes and extract them).

As I said earlier, the woof-CE commit log is very quiet (correct me if I'm wrong), so if you want more "free" bug fixes and polish, maybe you'd want to find these differences and upstream them.

Don't understand any of that! What are the "differences" (from a user's perspective) that concern you????

As I understand it (@radky please confirm) - BWP64 as released is a local "enhanced" rebuild of the Github published BWP64.

BWP32 is a Github build using stock Woof-CE and therefore contains all the changes to woof-code in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 99a4dc37b2 and the woof-distro changes were already there for BWP32 because they were copied over from the released BWP64.....

peebee wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:58 am

Don't understand any of that! What are the "differences" (from a user's perspective) that concern you????

They don't concern me because I don't use BookwormPup32. But they should concern those who want to build something based on BookwormPup64, or build a TrixiePup64 when the day comes. If these differences don't go into woof-CE, they will be lost to time like the modifications FossaPup64 (and those before it) had.

peebee wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:58 am

BWP64 as released is a local "enhanced" rebuild of the Github published BWP64.

It isn't, according to its /var/packages.

peebee wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:58 am

BWP32 is a Github build using stock Woof-CE and therefore contains all the changes to woof-code in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 99a4dc37b2..

... and this commit contains only some of the "enhancements".

I give up, I'll just let my PRs rot in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pulls and won't submit others. If you, as the only active woof-CE member, don't care about feeding woof-CE with the code from the Puppy release featured in puppylinux.com and distrowatch, nobody should care. I'll just continue development in my fork and won't try to get any improvements or fixes merged into upstream woof-CE.

Ok enough fighting. Instead answer the following questions about the Puppy the settle down the some community problems?

1. What is the flagship Puppy release?
2. What kind of woof-ce build system is based from in order to contribute PR's?
3. Who will majority lead the project?
4. What is the puppy's target hardware?

mistfire wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:05 am

4. What is the puppy's target hardware?

I would add 5. - what are the goals of the woof-CE project?

Without a good answer, it's unclear what PRs are going to be merged and what PRs are going to rot there forever.

nobody should care

Now you insult more than you realize. @dimkr we are all totally aware of the challenges and your concerns.

I have concerns as well.....like maybe any response at all that a portal page is built in hours and ready to go. Nada (that's Spanish) positivity from you at all. Here I am hustling to get your complaints addressed and these responses from you are astounding.

I give up, I'll just let my PRs rot in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pulls and won't submit others.

Wow. Taking the ball and going home? You know what? I have the power to merge commits so today I will put down everything else and review the push's and merge merge merge. Maybe all of it. Good enough?

@dimkr Sorry I haven't stepped in and done the merges. I will now though. And I'll be a lot more all over it because I'm setting aside everything else that is fun for me to take care of this so you don't feel disrespected. This will now be a project with deadlines and timelines. You've asked enough for it and now that is what will happen.

NO MORE deciding what a Puppy is....we already know it and said it enough...for months if not years. Already spent hours and hours writing or formatting text for this answer in detail so that's established as far I can see.

3. Who will majority lead the project?

Looks like a dwindling choice....so as @wiak suggested I will now be in charge. Do I get a pay raise?

@wanderer What is the status report on the Distrowatch reaction to your emailed submission of the portal page(s)?

You know why James Cameron hired me as the expedition gaffer for his documentary? Because I get stuff done under extreme stress and challenging conditions using what is available and I seemed to be able to promote teamwork in harsh environments working with absolutely crazy people with opinions.

rockedge wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 1:35 pm

3. Who will majority lead the project?

Looks like a dwindling choice....so as @wiak suggested I will now be in charge. Do I get a pay raise?

Since dimkr wants his own fork of Woof-CE (greatly modified and using debootstrap and thus Debian-based only now as far as I know) so that he can freely work on that without his builds getting messed up by old code and others pushing code he isn't keen on, which seems pretty reasonable in the circumstances of official woof-CE situation nowadays, would it be possible to:

fork dimkr's Vanilla Dpup as simply one branch of official Puppy woof-CE. If so that would at least partly cover the Debian side of things with (dimkr) cleaned up code that could then be used as an official Puppy. I suppose cherry-picking future stuff from dimkr repo would be a possibility or simply letting the two diverge.

Eventually, maybe, someone with sufficient dev skills could later start some new Slacko line (or the likes of peebee could continue to use old woof-CE Slacko code)?

Anyway, I'm not used to using git in multi-branch hence asking this question. Presumably, from what I've read dimkr say on various occasions, he wouldn't care one way or the other if Vanilla Dpup was forked to become an official Pup??? (Hopefully I'm not throwing any cats into any pigeons by wondering about this 'possibility').

Some people seem to like Vanilla Dpup, and some people don't because not what they are used to compared to traditional Pup builds. But perhaps it would be possible to take a forked Vanilla Dpup and modify it a bit so it becomes more traditional Pup look-and-feel in terms of what some people don't like about current Vanilla Dpup (I don't know much about Vanilla Dpup myself since only every booted it to check out my Ventoy setup and not really played around with it). Well, I'm not sure about my last comment since presumably would mean possibility of continuing to use JWM/Rox/gtkdialog/GTK+2/GTK+3/X..., which may well be no longer possible anyway... but nevertheless, other changes could be made that might appeal more to traditional Puppy users(???)

My own feeling is that it seems to me that Puppy has to change and Vanilla Dpup probably a reasonable path in that direction at least as far as Debian side of things go, but dimkr may be a bit hard core in some ways in terms of what should be allowed and not allowed so a fork into official Puppy might be a way to use the best of it, but with more flexible (and, yes, maybe unwise) additions(?)

I took a look at https://bwpup.puppylinux.com/. Seems fine to me with one exception:

"run completely from an internal hard drive in its own partition." should read "run completely from an internal hard drive in its own partition or folder". Emphasis of one of Puppy's strong points added.

Regarding the difference between BookwormPup 64bit & 32bit: Perhaps change "32 and 64 bit versions are available." to read "64 bit, with a similar 32 bit version available." Later on in the post there's a paragraph specifically about the 32 bit version. That is sufficient information in an 'Advertisement' to alert anyone that there are going to be differences. Anyone desiring/needing a 32 bit operating system cares only about its functionality; not how it differs from a 64 bit system you may not be able to use.

peebee, your work is outstanding. You are one of the mainstays of this community.

While dimkr's critique is important, it is only so because it has brought to our attention hopefully correctible issues. If we are going to continue to insist that Puppy Linux is an operating system created using woof, than we should know the problems involved in doing that, especially when we can fix those problems.

hi rockedge and everyone

this is the ongoing report about distrowatch

i have emailed them the link to our new bookwormpup page
i have as yet ( unsurprisingly ) received no response
i will continue to email them about once a week as i did before
until they attend to adding/correcting the info on the distrowatch page
luckily they have changed the date and the screenshot
so we are up to date ( except for all the other info ) for at least 1 year
it is interesting to remember that last time they did not return my emails
but they did eventually change the screenshot

i would advise patience
since apparently the wheels can move slowly over there

wanderer

What's going on ?

GREAT JOB. Many thanks to all involved.

@mikeslr Good tips...thanks for those.....I made some adjustments that you recommended.

Please take a look and see what you think

Bookworm web portal

hi rockedge

beautiful job

looks amazing

thanks for doing all this
and in record time

wanderer

rockedge wrote: ↑Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:34 pm

Bookworm web portal

Maybe change the title to "BookwormPup"? BWPUP can confuse new users that can't find the BWPUP forum.

@rockedge

A well laid out and informative web portal, thank you.

If one of these things interest you, read on.

I rather feel that the word things should be deleted.

So would now read If one of these interest you, read on

To refer to a distro as a thing doesn't sound very respectful or install confidence to visitors.

IMHO a small but eye enhancing change.

@rockedge, you may wanna take a look at...

Prompt, not code, to create any website instantly:

https://websim.ai/

wanderer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 17, 2024 3:24 pm

hi rockedge and everyone

this is the ongoing report about distrowatch

i have emailed them the link to our new bookwormpup page
i have as yet ( unsurprisingly ) received no response
i will continue to email them about once a week as i did before
until they attend to adding/correcting the info on the distrowatch page
luckily they have changed the date and the screenshot
so we are up to date ( except for all the other info ) for at least 1 year
it is interesting to remember that last time they did not return my emails
but they did eventually change the screenshot

i would advise patience
since apparently the wheels can move slowly over there

wanderer

I have not followed all of this thread, only read the first few pages, and this last page.

Regarding Distrowatch, my experience with them is always immediate response.
I didn't even have to tell them when EasyOS 6.0 was released; somehow they just picked up on it and announced it.

So I'm thinking if they are not responding to your emails, they have perhaps become annoyed.

It is best to have everything in place, absolutely everything, then just one email suffices.

"Everything" would be:
Announcement
Release notes
Photo(s)
Package list
Links to download, web site, forum, developer site

My 6.0 announcement is an example:

https://bkhome.org/news/202406/easyos-s ... eased.html