Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

bigpup wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 6:24 am

This topic will tell you how to use a program pet package to install a program:
viewtopic.php?t=1819

It will also tell you what section of this forum to find pet packages.

For BookwormPup64 there is this topic of programs installed and tested on it:
viewtopic.php?t=9637

The first link looks like something I might be able to work with! The second link is waaaaay too advanced for me. That's the type of complexity my brain struggles with.

stevie pup wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:53 pm

tigerflag wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:46 pm

Most instructions in linux are somewhat incomplete. They'll say things like "download the package and then start it up" but there's usually a bunch of steps omitted that are assumed the reader knows how to do.

I either have to watch someone do it with all the steps or have instructions written in excruciating detail, or I won't understand.

Couldn't agree more. Let's say it takes 7 steps to perform a task, then I need to know what each of the 7 steps are, in detail. It's no good telling me step 1 and step 5, then assuming I know the rest, because the chances are I don't.

I spend so much time scratching my head I'm surprised I haven't worn a groove in it.

Exactly! I'll never forget buying the Slackware Essentials book ("for beginners" lol!) to learn Slackware. It told me that the way to open a terminal is to do CTRL+ALT+F2 (which I eagerly did), but it didn't tell me the command to get OUT of said terminal and back into X! I had to do a hard shutdown then boot up again. The whole book was like that!

If a distro's designed for experts then it's totally fine for the instructions to omit a lot of steps. The problem experts have with writing instructions for beginners and average users is that, even though well-intentioned, they've forgotten all the little things they didn't know before they became experts. I had always been under the impression that Puppy was for average users, but I guess with the complexities introduced by all the packaging problems it's an expert's distro now.

vtpup is really good at writing instructions!

tigerflag wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:40 pm

I had always been under the impression that Puppy was for average users, but I guess with the complexities introduced by all the packaging problems it's an expert's distro now.

Well there is no one Puppy distro any more, and some require more technical knowhow than others. Back in the early Puppies written by Barry Kauler things were simpler because the number of additional programs you could run was limited. BUT Puppy came with already installed applications that presumably were enough for everyday computer needs.

Installation was also much easier when computers were less locked down, and generally had a CD drive. You made a CD of the OS, and set your computer to boot from a CD, and boom, you were in. It was great! Super fast compared to anything else, super efficient of processor and memory needs. It was unique, and actually relatively standardized.

Now, computers are locked down to start Windows by the manufacturer, CD/DVD drives are no longer found on computers, and people want the latest and greatest hardware: processors, touchpads, audio components, and wifi capabilities. People want access to tens of thousands of programs to run on highly disparate combinations of this hardware. Thus it is harder to just come up with ways to get various Puppys installed and working. "Hardware" is now not fixed physical components anymore, but physically programmable at a low level with "firmware" much of which is proprietary to manufacturers, and goes through rapidly changing iterations.

In other words, the world of computers themselves is far more challenging for any operating system to keep up with.

True Puppies still have generally the same number of on-board applications for a regular user. So they can actually be thought of as simple operating systems.

Getting a later Puppy installed, unfortunately can present technical challenges because of the computers themselves. Once you know how to do it, it seems easier for subsequent Puppy installs, but there is a lot of jargon, and a bunch of unknown computer variables that have to be dealt with in that first install.

vtpup wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 8:29 pm

tigerflag wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:40 pm

I had always been under the impression that Puppy was for average users, but I guess with the complexities introduced by all the packaging problems it's an expert's distro now.

Well there is no one Puppy distro any more, and some require more technical knowhow than others. Back in the early Puppies written by Barry Kauler things were simpler because the number of additional programs you could run was limited. BUT Puppy came with already installed applications that presumably were enough for everyday computer needs.

Installation was also much easier when computers were less locked down, and generally had a CD drive. You made a CD of the OS, and set your computer to boot from a CD, and boom, you were in. It was great! Super fast compared to anything else, super efficient of processor and memory needs. It was unique, and actually relatively standardized.

Now, computers are locked down to start Windows by the manufacturer, CD/DVD drives are no longer found on computers, and people want the latest and greatest hardware: processors, touchpads, audio components, and wifi capabilities. People want access to tens of thousands of programs to run on highly disparate combinations of this hardware. Thus it is harder to just come up with ways to get various Puppys installed and working. "Hardware" is now not fixed physical components anymore, but physically programmable at a low level with "firmware" much of which is proprietary to manufacturers, and goes through rapidly changing iterations.

In other words, the world of computers themselves is far more challenging for any operating system to keep up with.

True Puppies still have generally the same number of on-board applications for a regular user. So they can actually be thought of as simple operating systems.

Getting a later Puppy installed, unfortunately can present technical challenges because of the computers themselves. Once you know how to do it, it seems easier for subsequent Puppy installs, but there is a lot of jargon, and a bunch of unknown computer variables that have to be dealt with in that first install.

You're right, and it's sad. "How progress takes away what forever took to find" ...

I guess I'm a fossil because for my simple needs on my old equipment BionicPup is still just perfect. It's the Crown Vic of distros! The only reason I want something with a recent kernel is for this new iProda N97 mini-PC. So far I'm hating it. It fights me booting into anything but pre-installed Windows. Getting into BIOS is a nightmare (you boot up pounding the ESC key for BIOS but it boots into windows. You shut down. Do it again. Only on the third boot pounding ESC will it let you into BIOS. That's insulting! Then it boots up Windows again even though I disabled booting from that drive. It's proprietary cr*p like this that makes me loyal to Linux.

In case the problem is with the .iso I made, I've ordered a USB stick with PCLOS on it. If it ignores that, too, then I'm shipping it back and getting an old micro/mini/tiny Dell, HP or Lenovo that plays well with Linux. Those might even still work with BionicPup!

Sorry, I'm just venting now. Thanks again for all your help.

@tigerflag,

I also have problems remembering bash-codes; well TBH, the verbs, nouns and their modifiers in any language other than --and sometimes even-- English. Maybe this will help: https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=13122.

You can have your web-browser print it as a pdf. Then move the pdf into a folder on /mnt/home. Mine's named /my-notes. Left-Click the desktop drive icon which, on boot-up, indicates it already mounted. Then Right-Click an empty space and from the pop-up Menu select New>directory. Give it a name.

mikeslr wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 9:44 pm

@tigerflag,

I also have problems remembering bash-codes; well TBH, the verbs, nouns and their modifiers in any language other than --and sometimes even-- English. Maybe this will help: https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=13122.

You can have your web-browser print it as a pdf. Then move the pdf into a folder on /mnt/home. Mine's named /my-notes. Left-Click the desktop drive icon which, on boot-up, indicates it already mounted. Then Right-Click an empty space and from the pop-up Menu select New>directory. Give it a name.

Thank you very much for this!

tigerflag wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:46 pm

For example, when playing cribbage I can count the pegholes at a glance but adding up the symbolic numerals on the cards to make 15 is much more difficult, and it never gets easier with practice.

I can sympathize. My own grandkids gleefully peg my missed 15's.

Most instructions in linux are somewhat incomplete. They'll say things like "download the package and then start it up" but there's usually a bunch of steps omitted that are assumed the reader knows how to do.

Have you considered choosing a project based on the strengths of the documentation? Or at least how easy you find it to comprehend some writers instructions over others? Both these projects have Puppy origins and provide documentation written by the developers.

https://bkhome.org/linux/easyos-a-simpl ... ution.html is a good enrty point for EasyOS and
https://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/#home for Fatdog

williwaw wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 10:19 pm

tigerflag wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:46 pm

For example, when playing cribbage I can count the pegholes at a glance but adding up the symbolic numerals on the cards to make 15 is much more difficult, and it never gets easier with practice.

I can sympathize. My own grandkids gleefully peg my missed 15's.

Most instructions in linux are somewhat incomplete. They'll say things like "download the package and then start it up" but there's usually a bunch of steps omitted that are assumed the reader knows how to do.

Have you considered choosing a project based on the strengths of the documentation? Or at least how easy you find it to comprehend some writers instructions over others? Both these projects have Puppy origins and provide documentation written by the developers.

https://bkhome.org/linux/easyos-a-simpl ... ution.html is a good enrty point for EasyOS and
https://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/#home for Fatdog

Thank you! I'm intrigued by EasyOS because it doesn't use .iso . Given my difficulties creating .iso images anything else might be better! I considered it awhile back but the documentation was over my head. I'll give it another good look. Hopefully I can understand it.

tigerflag wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:49 am

Hi All,
I recently bought a new mini-pc that requires a newer kernel so I installed BookwormPup64 10.0.8 (x86_64) on a thumbdrive, hoping to install it.

If you are willing to install to a thumb drive in order to test before making the install to the mini, you will have everything you need onboard. Not a bad plan at all, and one Barry avocates for and the primary reason EasyOs is supplied as an .img

https://easyos.org/install/how-to-write ... end_for_dd

williwaw wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:39 pm

tigerflag wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:49 am

Hi All,
I recently bought a new mini-pc that requires a newer kernel so I installed BookwormPup64 10.0.8 (x86_64) on a thumbdrive, hoping to install it.

If you are willing to install to a thumb drive in order to test before making the install to the mini, you will have everything you need onboard. Not a bad plan at all, and one Barry avocates for and the primary reason EasyOs is supplied as an .img

https://easyos.org/install/how-to-write ... end_for_dd

Ahh, but you see those directions are totally beyond my skill level. Anything that requires commandline is totally "no-go" for me.

I really need a distro pre-installed on media that I can boot up and run live or install.

tigerflag wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:54 pm

williwaw wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:39 pm

tigerflag wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:49 am

Hi All,
I recently bought a new mini-pc that requires a newer kernel so I installed BookwormPup64 10.0.8 (x86_64) on a thumbdrive, hoping to install it.

If you are willing to install to a thumb drive in order to test before making the install to the mini, you will have everything you need onboard. Not a bad plan at all, and one Barry avocates for and the primary reason EasyOs is supplied as an .img

https://easyos.org/install/how-to-write ... end_for_dd

Ahh, but you see those directions are totally beyond my skill level. Anything that requires commandline is totally "no-go" for me.

I really need a distro pre-installed on media that I can boot up and run live or install.

not sure where you will find a puppy preinstalled on a USB, but EasyDD is a simple interactive graphical application. To make it easily and universally usable with all linux flavors, it does need to be run with three simple commands. you could cut a few steps by downloading easydd and EasyOs while booted into your bookwormpup USB when plugged into your mini, and make an install directly to the mini or another USB should you choose.

1. download by pasting each of these links into your browser address bar
http://bkhome.org/files/easydd.gz
https://distro.ibiblio.org/easyos/amd64 ... -amd64.img

2. create a folder with anyname inside your downloads folder and move each item into your newly created folder

3. right click anywhere inside that folder window in the file manager to bring up a context menu.
choose window > terminal here. A terminal should come up.

4. run each of these three commands in the window that opens...
wait for the prompt # to return before running the next command.
# gunzip easydd.gz
# chmod 755 easydd
# easydd
easydd will offer some self explanatory choices.

If you are not installing to a second USB and wish to install to the internal drive on the mini, please understand you need to save any files you wish to keep from the internal drive to a different drive.
easydd will also offer sufficient warning to this effect also.

should you install to a second USB for testing, easydd will be found as a menu item and the command line will not be needed for a final install to the internal drive

williwaw wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:19 am

tigerflag wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:54 pm

williwaw wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:39 pm

If you are willing to install to a thumb drive in order to test before making the install to the mini, you will have everything you need onboard. Not a bad plan at all, and one Barry avocates for and the primary reason EasyOs is supplied as an .img

https://easyos.org/install/how-to-write ... end_for_dd

Ahh, but you see those directions are totally beyond my skill level. Anything that requires commandline is totally "no-go" for me.

I really need a distro pre-installed on media that I can boot up and run live or install.

not sure where you will find a puppy preinstalled on a USB, but EasyDD is a simple interactive graphical application. To make it easily and universally usable with all linux flavors, it does need to be run with three simple commands. you could cut a few steps by downloading easydd and EasyOs while booted into your bookwormpup USB when plugged into your mini, and make an install directly to the mini or another USB should you choose.

1. download by pasting each of these links into your browser address bar
http://bkhome.org/files/easydd.gz
https://distro.ibiblio.org/easyos/amd64 ... -amd64.img

2. create a folder with anyname inside your downloads folder and move each item into your newly created folder

3. right click anywhere inside that folder window in the file manager to bring up a context menu.
choose window > terminal here. A terminal should come up.

4. run each of these three commands in the window that opens...
wait for the prompt # to return before running the next command.
# gunzip easydd.gz
# chmod 755 easydd
# easydd
easydd will offer some self explanatory choices.

If you are not installing to a second USB and wish to install to the internal drive on the mini, please understand you need to save any files you wish to keep from the internal drive to a different drive.
easydd will also offer sufficient warning to this effect also.

should you install to a second USB for testing, easydd will be found as a menu item and the command line will not be needed for a final install to the internal drive

The bookwormPup stick failed after one use. Something about Bad Shim Signature and needing to install a kernel (I don't even want to think about it).

I'm on my main computer. Do I download all of the above and follow those commands on this PC then transfer it to a USB stick, or can I do this directly on a fresh USB stick to make a live bootable USB?

BTW, you folks are AWESOME!

tigerflag wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:01 am

I'm on my main computer. Do I download all of the above and follow those commands on this PC then transfer it to a USB stick, or can I do this directly on a fresh USB stick to make a live bootable USB?

I would repurpose the USB
From your main computer, I would boot and download the two files.

What Os is you main computer? Can you run as root and relocate the two downloads to a newly created folder in /root?
if so, open the terminal and try the command pwd
if it returns /root then run the command cd new_folder_name
then run the three commands. If easydd doesnt pop up, try ./easydd

williwaw wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:40 am

tigerflag wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 4:01 am

williwaw wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:19 am

not sure where you will find a puppy preinstalled on a USB, but EasyDD is a simple interactive graphical application. To make it easily and universally usable with all linux flavors, it does need to be run with three simple commands. you could cut a few steps by downloading easydd and EasyOs while booted into your bookwormpup USB when plugged into your mini, and make an install directly to the mini or another USB should you choose.

1. download by pasting each of these links into your browser address bar
http://bkhome.org/files/easydd.gz
https://distro.ibiblio.org/easyos/amd64 ... -amd64.img

2. create a folder with anyname inside your downloads folder and move each item into your newly created folder

3. right click anywhere inside that folder window in the file manager to bring up a context menu.
choose window > terminal here. A terminal should come up.

4. run each of these three commands in the window that opens...
wait for the prompt # to return before running the next command.
# gunzip easydd.gz
# chmod 755 easydd
# easydd
easydd will offer some self explanatory choices.

If you are not installing to a second USB and wish to install to the internal drive on the mini, please understand you need to save any files you wish to keep from the internal drive to a different drive.
easydd will also offer sufficient warning to this effect also.

should you install to a second USB for testing, easydd will be found as a menu item and the command line will not be needed for a final install to the internal drive

The bookwormPup stick failed after one use. Something about Bad Shim Signature and needing to install a kernel (I don't even want to think about it).

I'm on my main computer. Do I download all of the above and follow those commands on this PC then transfer it to a USB stick, or can I do this directly on a fresh USB stick to make a live bootable USB?

From your main computer, I would boot and then plug in the USB (presuming you want to repurpose the USB to EasyOs)

download the two files and run the three commands as described above. when the easydd app offers you to install to the USB, select the approiate radio button.

reboot from the newly created USB.

Thanks! I will try this.

I was editing my post, when you posted, as it occured to me your main desktop may not be puppy.
please review the edited instructions.

williwaw wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 5:02 am

I was editing my post, when you posted, as it occured to me your main desktop may not be puppy.
please review the edited instructions.

My main desktop and Lenovo Thinkpad laptop both run BionicPup64, thanks. I will be sure to note your instructions.

Can't repurpose the broken Puppy thumbdrive as my system won't even allow me to delete the files on it. I've never had that happen before. I tossed it in the trash. Murphy lives here.

it should go easier with bionic, as boinic runs as root and you can work from any folder.

the last command easydd may still need to be ./easydd tho, depending on where your new folder is located.

the drive may be salvagable, but perhaps another day.

I can't remember bash code either. So this is what I'd do to follow williwaw's recipe.

Start your text editor in Bionicpup. Then copy the commands from this post into it, leaving a space between each line: Those spaces make copying easier later on. [The 4th line will only be necessary if the condition williwaw mentioned exists; but it's best to be prepared].

gunzip easydd.gz

chmod 755 easydd

easydd

./easydd

Save the text file as "Install-Easy-OS-Instructions" to /root/my-documents.

Is LxTerminal installed in your BionicPup? If so, life is easy. You can open LxTerminal from the Utilities Menu. With both Lxterminal and the above text file open you can --one line at a time-- highlight each line in their order in the text editor, select copy. Then switch to Lxterminal. Select from its Menu Edit>paste and press the Enter/Return key.

If you don't have Lxterminal [and you can't install it into Bionicpup64] you may have to use Urxvt, also on the Utilities Submenu. After highlighting and copying a line from the text file switch to Urxvt and 'middle-click', easy if your mouse has a scroll button. Harder if not.

A question before I start: I salvaged the broken BookwormPup thumbdrive by reformatting it with GParted to FAT32.

Should I keep it at FAT32 or use a EXT3 or something? Should I flag it as bootable? That was actually 2 questions...

Thanks!

if you are going ahead with easyos on your salvaged USB, you do not need to do any disk prep with gparted or the likes.
easydd will will clone the easyos image which already has the partitions needed.
it would also be polite to start a topic in the easy section of the forum as your new efforts are not pertinent to bookwormpup.

if you are continuing on with bookwormpup efforts, you can do it all with fat32 or add a ext3 and do a manual frugal install. although easiest would be to use an installer program such as frugalpup.
newer versions are available if you are working from bionic

Holy Moly! EasyOS WORKED! And it feels like BionicPup. Thanks to y'all, I finally have a bootable thumbdrive! It only took 3 attempts. The first time it failed to download the .gz extension. The second time the thumbdrive failed; the same one that failed with BookwormPup. I'm throwing it in the trash. The third time worked with a SanDisk drive fresh out of the package.

Thank you all SO much! You're incredible!

If I have any questions about EasyOS I'll ask in the Easy forum (they're running for cover now...).

I'm marking this thread SOLVED. Thank you again. I'm truly grateful.

tigerflag wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:24 pm

Holy Moly! EasyOS WORKED! And it feels like BionicPup. Thanks to y'all, I finally have a bootable thumbdrive! It only took 3 attempts. The first time it failed to download the .gz extension. The second time the thumbdrive failed; the same one that failed with BookwormPup. I'm throwing it in the trash. The third time worked with a SanDisk drive fresh out of the package.

Thank you all SO much! You're incredible!

If I have any questions about EasyOS I'll ask in the Easy forum (they're running for cover now...).

I'm marking this thread SOLVED. Thank you again. I'm truly grateful.

easyos is designed to work well from a thumb drive and the quality of the thumbdrive does matter.
with a working thumbdrive there is no reason to be in a hurry to get the drive in the mini up and running, although there is no reason not to. I like easy and like bookwormpup as well, and I hope no one here at bookwormpup thinks the advice to try easyos is a put down of bookwormpup or a "try this instead advice". the simplicy of getting an easyos .img dd to a stick is the reason for going off topic.

other puppies, including bookwormpup can be added to your new USB if you want to review other offerings, and if you do decide to put easyos on the internal drive, you can launch easydd from the menu > setup > EasyDD frontend for dd, and do not have to do the download or terminal commands.

williwaw wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 1:31 am

tigerflag wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:24 pm

Holy Moly! EasyOS WORKED! And it feels like BionicPup. Thanks to y'all, I finally have a bootable thumbdrive! It only took 3 attempts. The first time it failed to download the .gz extension. The second time the thumbdrive failed; the same one that failed with BookwormPup. I'm throwing it in the trash. The third time worked with a SanDisk drive fresh out of the package.

Thank you all SO much! You're incredible!

If I have any questions about EasyOS I'll ask in the Easy forum (they're running for cover now...).

I'm marking this thread SOLVED. Thank you again. I'm truly grateful.

easyos is designed to work well from a thumb drive and the quality of the thumbdrive does matter.
with a working thumbdrive there is no reason to be in a hurry to get the drive in the mini up and running, although there is no reason not to. I like easy and like bookwormpup as well, and I hope no one here at bookwormpup thinks the advice to try easyos is a put down of bookwormpup or a "try this instead advice". the simplicy of getting an easyos .img dd to a stick is the reason for going off topic.

other puppies, including bookwormpup can be added to your new USB if you want to review other offerings, and if you do decide to put easyos on the internal drive, you can launch easydd from the menu > setup > EasyDD frontend for dd, and do not have to do the download or terminal commands.

That is very cool! Once again, thank you. I hope no one here thinks I'm dissing Bookworm. I'm sure it's great for those who have the skills for it; it's just not a good fit for me. It's so nice to have choices. If I can install Tor and a few games (which is what started this whole thread) then EasyOS will do well for me. Heading over to the EasyOS forum to learn