Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Changing the app mix on the main iso
Moving the app from the main iso to a legacy sfs file
Could also serve as a reason for a point release

Wanderer

I think everytime we do a point release
We should change the wallpaper
Helps to distinguish between releases
And is less boring.

Wanderer

"Aim small, miss small"

@mikeslr :-

As I mentioned previously, my experience with Slackos is that --while they provide superior graphics and possibly sound (others say so, my hearing isn't acute enough to notice), there are fewer applications which will run OOTB.

It's the old chestnut, Mike. Just as Slackos are famous for being very stable, courtesy of their "parent", they're also famous for being "light" on OOTB dependencies.......thereby requiring a lot of TLC to get them "fully-fettled".

(*shrug...*)

T'other Mike.

dimkr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:36 am

https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... 9.6-alpha1

Thank you for your new offering.
Tried it briefly.
There are few things failing but the important one is that out of the 3 package managers (PPM, PM-ng, apt-get/synaptic) non of then work as they are all without repo info and they all fail to update their repositories.

apt update fails only because your clock is set incorrectly. I can't "fix" this without dropping SNS in favor of a proper network manager tool with NTP support and that's a big change. People will criticize such a move, and it's beyond the time and effort I can dedicate to this.

Spent much of the afternoon trying to give S15 a fair shot. Which to me means, a Puppy which though having applications most people will find useful can be 'fleshed out' by an ordinary user to meet his needs without growing beyond reason. That's one of the reasons why I like portables and AppImages. When not in use they require no RAM. And when not wanted, they require no storage space.

Turn out that the package from here https://www.mediafire.com/file/dfyqep7a ... 7.pet/file was the best way to enable the use of portable web-browsers. Once installed it enabled every portable web-browser to work and AFAIK I tested all of them. I had intended to replace it with something using PPM. But AFAICT, that pulled in more files than were needed. The above package was evidently built by someone who understands Slackware. I don't.

My other objective was to put together a small package of Qt5 libraries which previous exploration seemed to be required by several portables and AppImages. Allowing PPM to download packages which seem relevant (then packaging them as an sFS) resulted an SFS occupying over 200 Mbs of storage. So I picked a couple of portables and AppImages I actually use, ran ListDD and hunted among the libraries I had just acquired for those ListDD reported missing. Some were still missing.

I think I'd best leave fleshing out S15 to those who understand Slackware and/or can compile. I'll be interested to see what they do. As I said, I like S15.

dimkr, can the network manager you created for VanillaDpup be ported to Fossapup64? That might also solve the ethernet problem MikeWalsh experienced. Or is that idea whose time-hurdle you expressed in responding to retiredt00?

I've downloaded your 9.6-alpha and will explore it tomorrow.

hi all

just for general information

i note that woof-ce supports 3 distros

debian
ubuntu
slackware

what would be the best one to follow long term

wanderer

Uploaded 9.6-alpha2 at https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... 9.6-alpha2. It replaces SNS, Frisbee and netmon_wce with ConnMan, connman-gtk and connman-ui.

dimkr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:23 am

ConnMan, connman-gtk and connman-ui.

Is there an indication of network operation there? Well, that is, do icons blink in the system tray when uploading or downloading files, near and far screens, respectively?

dimkr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:23 am

Uploaded 9.6-alpha2 at https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... 9.6-alpha2. It replaces SNS, Frisbee and netmon_wce with ConnMan, connman-gtk and connman-ui.

Thank you for the update.
Looks better
I did notice few misses though
Browser icon on Desktop is not configured to point to palemoon
Conky GUI opens but conky never starts
dunst settings does not running
Redshift GUI does not run
inkscape does not run
notecase does not run
easytag does not run
PM-ng GUI is there but does not do anything
During boot the kernel complains about udev rule 55 and 88 (if I noticed correctly)
Finally atp-get now works fine however it takes ~300MB storage just to update the repos so an 1GB storage file would be the minimum for a usable system.
Thanks again

dimkr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:23 am

Uploaded 9.6-alpha2 at https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... 9.6-alpha2. It replaces SNS, Frisbee and netmon_wce with ConnMan, connman-gtk and connman-ui.

You and rockedge are offering a Fossapup64 9.6

Rockedges post is here:
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=7234

His topic would be a good place to work on Fossapup64 9.6.

Could you two get together and help each other produce this Fossapup64 9.6?

We will all help you both in finding and fixing any issues!!!

Your version does seem a little more improved, with added features, programs, tweaks, etc.......

I do like the network connection program in your version, but Network Wizard does offer a lot of options, for people that may want to have those options.

If you are going to have Quickpet.

Quickpet -> Drivers are going to have to offer drivers compiled for kernel 5.4.221
The ones now offered are for kernel 5.4.53

I'll ask again, before I move on to other things: any volunteers to test this ISO thoroughly, rebuild old packages, upload them to the repo and fix issues (especially quickpet)?

I'm sorry-would like to help, but I just do not have the knowledge to do what is required. However, I wish to
offer my thanks for all that you do here.

Anyone can test and post problems they find!
Even offer ideas on what needs to be in it.

@dimkr

That is why I say you need to get with rockedge.
He can do a lot of what you ask.

I can test and find issues!

Some issues I may be able to offer a fix for.

Probably will be able to offer some compiled drivers.

I do not have access to download stuff to the Puppy repository at ibiblio.org

Maybe rockedge can.

That is really where whatever is produced, needs to finally be stored for download.

I am going to check and see what ibiblio.org requires to be able to put stuff in Puppies repository.

I know there are several people on this form that can do it.

Has the decision been made that FossaXXXXXXX is going to be the flagship on Distrowatch? Maybe that should be sorted out first so we know which distribution to test thoroughly and vigorously. Just to be clear - Fossa64 will be my suggestion too (although I don't use it myself but I think it's the logical choice), have suggested that from the beginning.

I think it doesn't matter which candidate we choose to represent Puppy on Distrowatch if everybody is waiting for somebody else to do the work.

dimkr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:27 pm

I think it doesn't matter which candidate we choose to represent Puppy on Distrowatch if everybody is waiting for somebody else to do the work.

I think it's extremely important to know which candidate is chosen so that forum members (or those who are in the position to test, help and make suggestions) can focus on that specifically as far as the distrowatch entry goes.

Everyone can test!

But getting to final release, is something needed, before making a final choice for Distrowatch.

Still got S15pup to consider.
It to is still geting tested and bug fixed.
But it does offer a 32bit and 64bit version.
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=7227
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@dimkr
Have you looked at the Fossapup64 9.6 topic by rockedge?
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=7234

People are working on it.

Your version of Fossapup64 9.6 needs to be posted there and the two versions need to be combined.

Your version is offering some improvements, new programs and ways of doing stuff.

Let's work on it in that specific topic.

hi all

the well being of the puppy community

is more important than keeping the distrowatch page updated

if it becomes dormant

when we eventually submit an update

it will be made active again

and nothing existential will be lost

so my advice is that the people doing the work take it slow (or take a break)

i think that continuing to discuss the plan on this thread is a good idea

since it will help us focus our energies

but the most important thing is to relax and take it easy

we already have a ton of completed puppy and puppy inspired distros to play with

.

wanderer

I'm not familiar with Ubuntu derivatives, but am testing S15 (works well for me) as I have used Slacko derivatives almost exclusively.

wanderer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:43 pm

hi all
but the most important thing is to relax and take it easy
we already have a ton of completed puppy and puppy inspired distros to play with

wanderer

Yeah, too easy to burn out in this fast paced world.

I think it's kind of cool to see how it's lighting a fire under people to polish up their current projects. And although fossapup has only 2 years left of ubuntu repos, I've been looking forward to maybe seeing an updated version. It's a solid go-to OS when it's all said and done. It's been my work OS since it came out. It convinced me to delete Windows from every machine I own.

That being said, I'm really investing time in KLV. I think it's got cutting edge potential, even though void doesn't have the largest repo selection, it's kind of right up our alley in terms of small size and speed, while easy to keep up to date security wise, because it can get system wide updates from Void Linux.

That being said, I'm turning into a puppy linux freak now, not content with any one OS, but bouncing around and planning to use and try them all. Like my dad used to say, "Why have a stereo with 5 knobs when you can have one with 10?"

geo_c wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:35 am

That being said, I'm really investing time in KLV. I think it's got cutting edge potential, even though void doesn't have the largest repo selection, it's kind of right up our alley in terms of small size and speed,

I'm still working away on a new FirstRib-based Arch Linux, and tonight cut out a lot of packages I tend to prefer keeping in my builds - but I wanted to see if I could make a build as small as KLV-airedale (which as you know uses Void Linux packages), but I couldn't easily do it. One major stumbling block was the X drivers in /usr/lib/dri; in KLV these are all symlinks to libgallium_dri whereas in Arch they are all individual drivers, which adds a couple of hundred MB! I don't even see that directory in Puppy; so no idea where Puppy gets its 3D accelerated graphics drivers on the system - well, actually I know nothing about that side of linux so maybe these are nothing to do with 3D graphics - X and acceleration and so on, so DRI, DRM and so on really mean nothing to me - fortunately it all just works or I'd definitely be tempted to simply give up rather than read even more docs I'd rather not bother reading.

Oops, was just commenting on that KLV comment and didn't notice was the nominations for puppy thread. Nevertheless, I would like to know how Puppy handles these same dri drivers or if it has them and where? People talk about using modsetting driver with Intel graphics so maybe all the dri stuff is irrelevant - seems unlikely...

wiak wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:29 am

One major stumbling block was the X drivers in /usr/lib/dri; in KLV these are all symlinks to libgallium_dri whereas in Arch they are all individual drivers, which adds a couple of hundred MB!

They seem like a couple hundred MB, but they are hard-links (not symlinks). In EasyOS, there are actually only two files inside /usr/lib/dri, the others are hard-links to those "real files". Each file appears to be 27MB or 17MB, total of 15 files. However:

# du -m /usr/lib/dri
43	/usr/lib/dri

...that is the actual size.

If they are not hard-links, then you have an incorrect distro.

Yesterday I took S15Puppy64_22.11RC2 out for a spin. Very polished. The inclusion of GTK3 libraries solved many of my prior issues. OOTB all current portable web-browsers functioned, and there were two comprehensive video editors available: shortcut (only needed jack) and Olive. [KDEnlive would need Qt5 libraries; not sure what's needed for openshot --maybe a slacko build as an SFS]. The included osmo was fully functional, An already available version of pwidgets could be installed; and interesting, once installed pwidgets showed sections to manage its configurations,

Perhaps the best way to handle Qt5 is to make it available as an SFS. Then, like devx or 32bit compatibility, it could be sfs-loaded when needed, unloaded when not, or not down-loaed if never needed.

Will have to spend more time exploring to see if there are any 'rough-edges' such as the lack of some Right-Click menu tools. But if we had to make a choice today between Fossa64-9.6 and S15Puppy64_22.11, the latter has my vote. This from someone who the last 5 years has almost always run debian/Ubuntus.

mikeslr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:12 pm

Perhaps the best way to handle Qt5 is to make it available as an SFS.

Hi @mikeslr

There is a Qt5 sfs at https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... -ydrv/Qt5/
built to satisfy the needs of LXQt.....

would be interested to know if it would be more widely applicable.
Thanks.

@geo_c :-

geo_c wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:35 am

That being said, I'm turning into a puppy linux freak now, not content with any one OS, but bouncing around and planning to use and try them all. Like my dad used to say, "Why have a stereo with 5 knobs when you can have one with 10?"

Heh.

I think many Puppians go through the same stages with our favourite canine.

In the first couple of years, we'll try out everything in sight; not just the new, up-to-date ones, but also spend time exploring the archives and digging up some of the oldies-but-goldies.

Over time, we'll realise that certain Puppies tend to serve our needs and work better for us than others. So, we'll begin to concentrate on those. We'll perhaps customize one, and find that it works really nicely, and we like the way it looks. So naturally, we'll then try to customize the others to work the same way. Then, our minds may turn to ways of attempting to share stuff, since we realise that duplication of everything wastes space, and makes it a nightmare to keep things up-to-date.....

Welcome to the world of the "hard-core" Puppians.....bitten by "the bug", and hopelessly ensnared!

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:43 pm

@geo_c :-

geo_c wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:35 am

That being said, I'm turning into a puppy linux freak now, not content with any one OS, but bouncing around and planning to use and try them all. Like my dad used to say, "Why have a stereo with 5 knobs when you can have one with 10?"

Heh.
In the first couple of years, we'll try out everything in sight; not just the new, up-to-date ones, but also spend time exploring the archives and digging up some of the oldies-but-goldies.
Mike.

I guess I'm the opposite, because I've been using puppy for 15 years or so, and I always used the latest official mainstream OS. Now I realize they are all good at their particular bent, and I feel like taking them for a spin. I think the lack of an "official puppy" for a couple of years has helped steer me to this realization.

Perhaps the 'official build" for the masses should be called Layman's Pup

But I guess that's the idea with Friendly Fossapup.

BarryK wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:56 pm

wiak wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:29 am

One major stumbling block was the X drivers in /usr/lib/dri; in KLV these are all symlinks to libgallium_dri whereas in Arch they are all individual drivers, which adds a couple of hundred MB!

They seem like a couple hundred MB, but they are hard-links (not symlinks). In EasyOS, there are actually only two files inside /usr/lib/dri, the others are hard-links to those "real files". Each file appears to be 27MB or 17MB, total of 15 files. However:

Code: Select all

# du -m /usr/lib/dri
43	/usr/lib/dri

...that is the actual size.

If they are not hard-links, then you have an incorrect distro.

Ah, hard links - I missed that, thanks.