Running Puppy linux from DVD for classroom

[wizard]

@boczniak767

Been testing different methods and this one seems to work. Since I have no experience with changing languages, I'd need you to try it. You might find it less complicated than you outlined above.

FossaPup64 9.5.
-boot system
-make custom changes
-install nicOS-Utility-Suite-2022.pet
-delete all files in /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild
-reboot (create save file or folder during shutdown)

-Menu>Utility>nicOS-Utility_Suite
-check Save2SFS

nios1.png (32.07 KiB) Viewed 772 times

-click OK
-check Choose Work Area, Save to ydrv, Exclude existing adrv and ydrv

nicos2.png (25.47 KiB) Viewed 772 times

-click OK
-choose your work area

nicos3.png (34.87 KiB) Viewed 772 times

-click OK

Be prepared to wait. When it's complete, the work area directory will open
containing: ydrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

-move the ydrv file to /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild
NOTE: you can also add any extra files you want on the DVD by copying them into /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild

-reboot WITHOUT save file or folder
-make no settings
-Menu>Setup>Remaster Puppy liveCD
--at the directory already exist message, click Keep
--at the /tmp/root message click OK
--at the /tmp/etc message click NO

One advantage of this method is all changes are in the ydrv, so if you need to change your custom settings, leave all the files in /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild and just create a new ydrv and replace the one in /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild.

When you run Menu>Setup>Remaster Puppy liveCD again it will jump right to the ISO creation step.

wizard

[boczniak767]

Thank you @wizard . I've tested similar method but without SaveFile.
For a while I thought it succeeded but NO, I've edited my previous long post to describe what happened.

Definitely I'll try your method.

[boczniak767]

@wizard I've checked your method. It is in fact faster and more user-friendly.

Two remarks:
As I don't have /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild I have to create it.
Also during second reboot I don't have option to save or not save changes in file/folder

It saved all settings except:
1. icons' placement - the same problem as described with "moving" icons
2. keyboard, it is still reversed to US - it seems that this phenomenon is visible on other computers than the one on which remaster has been done.

But Firefox is now default browser.

Just now I've spotted other problem, now my "arrow up" key triggers screenshoot

Definitely there is a problem with translating keyboard settings by X in Fossa. As I wrote earlier in Jammy only keyboard setting was preserved.

Nevertheless, huge thank you for your time.

I think I'll try to save changes to DVD during reboot and we see what will happen...

[mikeslr]

Not to drive you completely nuts ['though I've been accused of having that propensity ] so consider the following as 'For Your Information'; somethings you might want to consider before making your Final Remaster.

The reason there are so many Puppys is that by definition Puppys (other than Remasters) are created using an application known as 'woof'. Woof makes use of the binaries of a Major Linux Disto Version, and builds into the Puppy being 'woofed' direct access that Distro Version's repositories. In theory, any Distro can be used. In practice, the Distros woofed have mainly been Slackware, debian, Ubuntu and recently Void.

Puppy is not a 'rolling release'. To update it entirely, one has to either woof a new version, or remaster the old version. With the exception of the core/foundation glibc libraries, pretty much everything else can be updated without having to woof a new version. An operating system can only have one glibc version: many of its applications may break if you change it. And even a woofed new version can not include a new glibc unless the 'Source' Distro updated the glibc. [But there are techniques for building applications with other glibc versions]. So, when debian, Ubuntu or Slackware publishes a new OS, it's not uncommon for some Puppy Dev to woof a new Puppy binary compatible to it, and publish that new version. This often results in other Puppy Fans eventually creating remasters of that Puppy.

666philb published Fossapup64_9.5 on Sep 20, 2020, woofed from the Ubuntu focal fossa of April 20,2020 and such 'bug-fixes' as Ubuntu may have published by then. It’s not uncommon after a Puppy’s initial release for its Dev to respond to suggestions, and especially calls for ‘bug-fixes’. I don’t recall, but perhaps 666philb did that. However, 666philb has not been active on the Forum for the last couple of years. So it’s best to consider Fossapup64_9.5 as having been ‘locked’ around September 20, 2020; and that includes the applications which it provides if you use Menu>Setup>Quickpet.

Puppy Devs/Fans have continued to publish newer application and newer versions of application which Fossapup64_9.5 can use. Generally, you’ll find them in the Additional Software Section, viewforum.php?f=7. The OP of each Thread will usually identify which Puppys the App being discussed will function under. ‘No-Arch’ applications can almost always be used in any Puppy. But I want to make certain you are aware of a couple Sections of the Forum particularly significant for Fossapup64_9.5, and why.

I generally follow the advice “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” But when I do a remaster, I want to update as much as possible anything relating to Security, accessing the Web, and the convenience in User Customization. You’ll find rerwin’s latest network managers here, viewtopic.php?p=2241#p2241. You’ll find radky’s latest JWM-Desk here, viewtopic.php?p=32274#p32274. A link from that post will lead you to radky’s other ‘PupMates’ here, https://www.smokey01.com/radky/PupMates.html. That Webpage shows the last publication date of application.

There have been many new applications specifically created for Fossapup64. You’ll find them in this Section, viewtopic.php?t=1239. Ones I think especially worth considering are jasper’s applications having to do with accessing the web, including Openssl. I suggest scanning that entire Section; but I think Jasper’s contributions begin here viewtopic.php?p=73987#p73987. Perhaps scan backwards from the end as I noticed some updates to his earlier updates.

Recently, ozsouth has published a series of Fossapup64 Remasters. You’ll find them on this Section, viewforum.php?f=119. Fossa-Mid is, I believe, the last ‘fleshed-out’ OS. It has built-in many of the new versions of applications ozsouth then compiled. That page has a list. But if you don’t want to ‘start from scratch’ by using Fossa-Mid, scanning thru ozsouth’s ‘closed’ thread will reveal links from which applications ozsouth and others created can be downloaded; such as those from here, viewtopic.php?p=92892#p92892.

As always, if you incorporate an application not specifically built for your Puppy (and Fossa-Mid is not identical to Fossapup64_9.5) always test before making that application a permanent part of your Puppy.

TBH, if you have the time and inclination, I’d recommend using Fossa-Mid for your project; or wizard’s Friendly-Fossa, viewtopic.php?p=43902#p43902 updated with applications from ozsouth’s Thread and the Fossapup User Contributed Packages Section. Sorry I didn’t think of that earlier.

[mikewalsh]

@boczniak767 :-

I'll say this. Over the last 9/10 years, I've re-mastered perhaps 3 times.

The first time, I was still quite new to Puppy. I used the built-in mechanism, followed the instructions - though probably not as closely as I should have done! - and what I ended up with was sort of what I wanted, but a lot of stuff wasn't right, and it was an awfully big 'final product'.

The next time, a couple of years on, I again used the built-in mechanism. However, this time I went through everything in greater detail, tweaking stuff before creating the ISO, annnd......it STILL wasn't completely right.

The last time I tried this, about 2 1/2 yrs ago, I took a different approach. It wasn't like I was going to "release" this Puppy - it was just for personal use - so instead of using any kind of re-master mechanism built by someone else, I decided to do everything manually. I opened-up the Pup I wanted to modify, copied the entire contents to a 'working directory', and went through everything with a fine toothcomb, level by level, directory by directory, file by file. It took me ages, but this time everything was exactly as I wanted it. Rebuilt the SFSs, and created my ISO after that.....and even after burning to disc, those modifications were still preserved.

This is one of those things that you discover. Stuff doesn't always work in quite the way that you, personally, might expect it to....

(*shrug...*)

Mike.

[boczniak767]

So I tested "writing changes to DVD" it was fun and settings were preserved when tested on THE SAME computer.

In case of Fossa, on different computer Polish keyboard was reversed to US. So it is issue specific for this flavour.
In case of Jammy, everything looks fine but after third reboot system just don't boot. It halted on "Probing EDD (edd=off to disable)... ok".***
When I tried on different PC and in boot menu selected "load SFS" then It started to boot but stooped with errors during save-read.

So now I wonder if I could do as @bigpup wrote - launch puppy from DVD at each computer in classroom, make changes and save them on hard drive. And expect that changes will be restored on each new boot? And it doesn't require any admin password? I want to stress that I don't want to install whole system permanently but use DVD with small save files/directories.

Now I'm considering: F96-CE_4, Bookworm, S15 as I can see they are based on current OSes.

Edit *** It also happens when I create save folder on hard drive.
I don't know if it is relevant but I'm making my tests mainly on laptops.

The last option is to use remastered Jammy, mentioned in one of my first posts.

And if that also fails I'll just use JSlinux for teaching command-line using Windows. Either way I'm using Overleaf for teaching LaTeX already so I can live with that all situation.

BTW "1. Customisable within minutes → remasters." should be removed from the main Puppy page. It leads people like me to this labyrinth of wasted time...

[bigpup]

It also happens when I create save folder on hard drive

You cannot make simple statements and expect us to exactly understand.

What happens?
What Puppy version?
Booting it how?
If save is on the internal drive, where exactly on the drive?

If when you boot you see a bunch of different options for how.

Choose the first one.

That should be a normal boot, that should work.

[boczniak767]

What happens?
What Puppy version?
Booting it how?
If save is on the internal drive, where exactly on the drive?

If when you boot you see a bunch of different options for how.

Choose the first one.

That should be a normal boot, that should work.

What happens? - finally I followed your suggestion to save changes on internal hard drive of computer. At reboot it asked me where I want it, showing two partitions with the largest marked as "suggested" so I agreed. I've also agreed it to make "save folder" rather than file.
Then I selected to not encrypt the folder.

I've followed similar procedure when saving settings on DVD.

What Puppy version? - FossaPup64 9.5

Booting it how? - I've rebooted the system after save. I've also tried to boot it both on the same and other computer.

If save is on the internal drive, where exactly on the drive? - the folder was placed in the top directory on this partition

In fact I used to choose the first boot option, trying with the second one only if the former failed.

[bigpup]

What exactly are the computers?

You say mostly laptops, but what make and model?

With Puppy being as small in size, it is impossible for one single version to support all possible computers.

That is why there are always several Puppy versions.
Each one is better for specific computer hardware.

[bigpup]

In case of Fossa, on different computer Polish keyboard was reversed to US.

Is this only issue with using it?

[boczniak767]

What exactly are the computers?

Ok, so I've used laptops: old Asus F3E (Intel Core2 duo CPU T5250 computer with 4Gb RAM), two new Dells (vostro 5471, vostro 15) and for testing also powerfull HP Z series desktop computer with 24 cores and 128Gb RAM.

In fact I've used linux on DVDs because I assumed that one DVD will work the same regardless of computer type and setup - after all stuff is loaded to RAM.

[amethyst]

What exactly are the computers?

Ok, so I've used laptops: old Asus F3E (Intel Core2 duo CPU T5250 computer with 4Gb RAM), two new Dells (vostro 5471, vostro 15) and for testing also powerfull HP Z series desktop computer with 24 cores and 128Gb RAM.

In fact I've used linux on DVDs because I assumed that one DVD will work the same regardless of computer type and setup - after all stuff is loaded to RAM.

The specs of your oldest machines are better than the machines I'm running the latest Puppy (Bookworm Pup64) on. I suggest you try it.

[wizard]

@boczniak767

Two remarks:
As I don't have /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild I have to create it.

Menu>Setup>Remaster Puppy liveCD creates that directory the first time you run it, I assumed you had run Remaster Puppy liveCD before.

Also during second reboot I don't have option to save or not save changes in file/folder

You can reboot and change as many times as you want, as long as it's done BEFORE nicOS Save2SFS. Also, Save2SFS does a final save before running.

1. icons' placement - the same problem as described with "moving" icons

My test which include background, icon removal, icon add and icon move changes have all remained
correct when booting the remaster.

2. keyboard, it is still reversed to US - it seems that this phenomenon is visible on other computers than the one on which remaster has been done.

I don't have an answer for this yet. If I just boot from the files in puppylivecdbuild the keyboard setting is Polish, which is correct, but if I create an ISO from those same files and burn a DVD it reverts to U.S. This suggest its related to booting from the DVD.

Just now I've spotted other problem, now my "arrow up" key triggers screenshoot

Menu>Desktop>JWMDesk Manager
-JWM Hotkey
edit exec:defaultscreenshot
-change Key = Print (or key of your choice)
-apply
-quit

wizard

[boczniak767]

So do I understand correctly, it is best to run DVD and make save (either on DVD or on hard drive) on exactly that computer on which it will be eventually run?
So my tests using other computers is bad idea? I assumed that I can make DVDs or at least test setup with save folder in advance, for example in my room at work or at home using any computer.

In the classroom there are HPs and Dells (all desktop computers). I can't check right now the exact models and specifications. I'll provide them if IT team responds to my e-mail or when I just go to the classroom next week.

[puppy_apprentice]

I have an old computer (from 2000). It cannot be booted from USB only from CD. So I boot from CD and in the isolinux menu I point to the path to the USB save file. The system boots with the settings from the save file.

Your students can use any pedndrive with FAT file system.

Or try installing Puppy on a pendrive. Save all settings to a save file on that flash drive. Then create an ISO image from that flash drive and burn it to DVD.

[Clarity]

So do I understand correctly, it is best to run DVD and make save (either on DVD or on hard drive) on exactly that computer on which it will be eventually run?
So my tests using other computers is bad idea? I assumed that I can make DVDs or at least test setup with save folder in advance, for example in my room at work or at home using any computer.

In the classroom there are HPs and Dells (all desktop computers). I can't check right now the exact models and specifications. I'll provide them if IT team responds to my e-mail or when I just go to the classroom next week.

In my classroom setups in the past, I have a folder on each and every computer where the sessions are saved. I place the folder for sessions on the system's drive.

In a distant past when booting from DVDs, I saved the sessions back to the DVD.

But, I find that using the system drive is both convenient and faster. I recommend you name the folder the same of every computer you have so that it is easy for you to maintain and help when necessary. There is no special requirement to keep the sessions on the root of a drive. Its easy; but using a folder name that is meaningful to you I would recommend.

Either will work without problems. Your choice.

Hope tihis helps

[boczniak767]

In a distant past when booting from DVDs, I saved the sessions back to the DVD.

I've seen that this feature is experimental, as written in red in windows presented during save.
A the same time from your post I see that save to DVD must be old thing...

[wizard]

@boczniak767 76

After more testing, it appears that FossaPup64 9.6 will retain the language settings. It was created in 2023 and has Firefox as the default browser.

If it will run on your computers, the remaster procedure is slightly different than for FossaPup64 9.5. Let me know if you would like instructions for it.

wizard

[boczniak767]

Let me know if you would like instructions for it.

@wizard Oh yes, please, if it is not a problem, you have helped me a lot already...

[pp4mnklinux]

@boczniak767 :

If u are interested about using a PuppyDistro for classroom, I recomend you to use F96CE_XFCE_FUSILLI.

It makes students love linux, it gives the students another idea of what linux is. I hardly recomend it to you, because I used it with my university students, and I make them install it, love it and work with it.

Give it a try....

You can watch the way it works at this video.- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-XPD1XwCKE&t=38s

You can find more info at this puppy linux sub-forum.- https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewforum.php?f=201

VISUALLY ATRACTIVE.- works fantastic.-

You gonna love it.-.... for sure.

CHEERS.

[Clarity]

... I've seen that this feature is experimental, as written in red in windows presented during save.
A the same time from your post I see that save to DVD must be old thing...

Yes, the ability to boot AND also to save to DVD goes back decades. Still works! And is a way to run forum distros without any need to disturb or touch the PC's system drives.

And actually, DVD management of sessions has a built-in feature unavailable in maintaining sessions on a PC's drive by all forum distros except 1.

Its a choice that users or admins can make for the community they are in.

Choice is yours.

[boczniak767]

@boczniak767 :

If u are interested about using a PuppyDistro for classroom, I recomend you to use F96CE_XFCE_FUSILLI.

VISUALLY ATRACTIVE.- works fantastic.-

Thanks for input but this system looks very computationally intensive - the classroom's computers would be killed.
Does fusilli use compiz? I know this look from Knoppix. I think it is pretty distracting, I'm fan of simple desktops. For example I loved simple Win XP design and now I'm a fan of simple LXDE desktop - I use Lubuntu on my two main computers.
But of course it is matter of taste.

[Clarity]

If you merely want an extremely clean desktop and want a simple solution to support a classroom of students, I have a working solution to do that as well.

It is simple, easily tested for evaluation, and does NOT require you to INSTALL anything on the classroom for the solution to provide what you indicate.

It is @fatdog based and DOES NOT REQUIRE TO CHANGE ANYTHING ON YOUR Lubuntu LAPTOPs/admin-PC for the solution to provide the service for classroom PCs to boot.

Let me know via a PM if this interest you.

[boczniak767]

If you merely want an extremely clean desktop and want a simple solution to support a classroom of students, I have a working solution to do that as well.

It is simple, easily tested for evaluation, and does NOT require you to INSTALL anything on the classroom for the solution to provide what you indicate.

It is @fatdog based and DOES NOT REQUIRE TO CHANGE ANYTHING ON YOUR Lubuntu LAPTOPs/admin-PC for the solution to provide the service for classroom PCs to boot.

Let me know via a PM if this interest you.

@Clarity
Before I ask you for this distro I'd like to return to begining and outline what I need:
system which will boot from DVD and have already Polish locale (keyboard is the most important) and Firefox as browser (to support websites as Overleaf, I saw that both Light and Palemoon don't work with such websites). So students don't have to change settings each time.
Also the system should boot and work as fast as possible. I've seen already that after booting Puppys are very fast.

[Clarity]

... Before I ask ...

If you want a DVD only solution, I recommend @wizard offer to you.

There, he outlines a remaster for a base DVD that can be used. It will work.

My solution needs nothing on the local PCs for it to work. This means NO DVDs needed, no local installs, no ... and your students will work as you expect.

Again, it extremely easy to do and doesn't require much more that a few minutes for you to test and evaluate. In your test, it becomes extremely clear what is happening. This is not complicated nor is it complex. SIMPLE!

Excepting that no DVDs are needed locally, seems to check all the boxes you're asking.

PS: Hold for a moment while I research Overleaf. This website is unknown to me.

[wizard]

@boczniak767

Try this.

F96-CE_4

-boot system
-make custom changes
-reboot and create save file or folder

-delete all files in /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild

-Menu>Utility>nicOS-Utility_Suite
-check Save2SFS

nios1.png (32.07 KiB) Viewed 431 times

-click OK
-check Choose Work Area, Save to ydrv, Exclude existing adrv and ydrv

nicos2.png (25.47 KiB) Viewed 431 times

-click OK
-choose your work area

nicos3.png (34.87 KiB) Viewed 431 times

-click OK

Be prepared to wait. When it's complete, the work area directory will open
containing ydrv_fossapup64_9.6.sfs

-move the ydrv file to /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild
NOTE: you can also add any extra files you want on the DVD by copying them into /mnt/home/puppylivecdbuild

-reboot WITHOUT save file or folder
-make no settings
-Open a terminal
--type: remasterpup2
--press: enter
--click: Remaster CD
--at the directory already exist message, click Keep
--at the /tmp/root message click OK
--at the /tmp/etc message click NO

wizard

[Clarity]

@wizard, should one explain how to make the ISO from the steps that would be used for DVD creations?

[wizard]

@Clarity

In this case the OP appears to have the skills that let me skip some of the click by click steps. The remaster script leads you to the ISO creation with a couple of clicks at the end.

wizard

[amethyst]

Guys, it's extremely easy to make a new iso with my remaster script if you have the original iso at hand. The easy way: run the remaster script and choose the option to also make an iso > when you get to the stage for making the iso and are prompted to copy over files, mount the original iso (or load the cd/dvd) and copy ALL files (EXCEPT the base sfs ie.the puppy_....sfs file and boot.catalog) from the original iso/cd/dvd to .../NewPuppy. Click OK and the new iso will be created.

[wizard]

@amethyst
@boczniak767

Just tested nicOS-Remaster-Classic on F96-CE_4 and appears to retain the settings and work well. Compared to the standard remaster method outlined above, I'd judge it a little simpler. You do lose the feature of having all changes contained in the ydrv. Also, the resulting image was 124mb larger.

I'll document the procedure and post today.

Thanks
wizard