Running Puppy linux from DVD for classroom

[boczniak767]

Hi,

I was looking for fast liveDVD linux for my classes. I can see that Puppy is really fast and I will hapilly use it but I have two concerns:

1. I've tried some Puppy flavours (Void, Fossa, Jammy) and I see that none of them prompts to remove media (DVD) before shutdown/reboot.
How can I fix it. I.e. when my pupils turn-off computer DVD will remain in the drive and I don't want that. I'd have to reboot each machine and collect DVDs myself...

2. I've tried to remaster FossaPup to make iso image with Polish localization. Unfortunately after booting the remastered DVD I was again welcomed with regional settings window. How could I ensure that localization (keyboard and locale) are stored in remastered version?

Best Wishes,

[bigpup]

About removing the DVD.

Puppy ISO image burned to a DVD is designed so you can remove the DVD after it boots to the desktop.
All of the complete normal Puppy stuff and programs are in RAM and the DVD is no longer needed.

so the DVD can be removed at any time after getting to the full working desktop.

This is so the DVD drive can be used for other DVD's.

Now, on first shutdown, when asked to make a save to store changes, settings, etc... in.
Choose to place the save on the computers internal drive.
The save is always mounted read/write and is not loaded into RAM.

So when you boot the DVD and it is using the save on the internal drive.

Nothing on the DVD is needed and can be removed while you are running Puppy version.

If you make the DVD burn open ended not closed.
You can choose to put the save on the DVD.
But if this is done.
The DVD always needs to be installed so the save can be read/written to.

[dancytron]

I didn't test it in Puppy, so it might be one of those things you have to install in Puppy, (I'll check and edit this later). It works in Debian Dog Buster on my Thinkcentre all-in-one.

Code: Select all

eject -r

.

in the terminal should open the drive bay.

Code: Select all

eject --help

has lots and lots of options.

You could write a little bash script that opens the drive bay and then runs the logoff script, or something similar.

--Dan

edit: tested on Bookworm64 Puppy and "eject -r" worked. That's the only Puppy I have on this computer.

[wizard]

The attached script will eject the CD/DVD drive, pause for 3 seconds, then shutdown. Put it in: /root/my-applications/bin/ and then use Rox to drag and drop a link onto the desktop. You can rename to whatever you like, then ask your students to use that icon to shut down the computer.

Be sure to set the file permissions as executable.

wizard

[wizard]

Here's how to do a remaster that will save all your changes in FossaPup64 9.5.

Post number 9 on the program: 95fix.sh
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 603#p17603

wizard

[mikeslr]

About Localizations: I have never tried. But I think they would require the same procedure as changing from other 'default' settings. That can be accomplished in two ways:

(1) Remaster. That is, change the default localization settings, Save to a SaveFile or Folder, Reboot, then run a remaster application. The trick with remaster is that during the process you have to copy the folder in /root in RAM to their corresponding locations in your temporary 'build-directory's' /root folder. Maybe do the same with /etc.
(2) Create or modify a ydrv or an adrv. All the Puppys you mentioned can use both a ydrv.sfs, and an adrv.sfs. Some of the Puppys you mentioned already have one, the other or both. These are file-systems which on boot-up are copied into RAM and have priority over the contents of the base.sfs. For example, the base.sfs for fossa_9.5 has the name puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs. It was published with an adrv bearing the name adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs. [In general, see these two posts regarding How Puppys Work, viewtopic.php?t=5818 and viewtopic.php?t=6526]. You can change the default settings and customizations by creating or editing adrv.sfs, ydrv.sfs or both. The only difference between adrv.sfs and ydrv.sfs is that the contents of adrv.sfs will have priority in your system, lower only to the contents of your SaveFile/Folder and current changes in RAM not yet Saved.

Amethyst has published a Suite of tools, viewtopic.php?p=12983#p12983 I recommend installing if not already present: check your Utilities Submenu. Both Remaster tools are less error-prone than the older (builtin) Remaster. I think the Remaster-Alternative requires no user intervention (i.e., the copying of contents from /root) but has the 'downside' of also copying the settings and customizations then employed on the computer from which it ran. [These, however, will be superseded by the settings and customizations you make and preserve in a SaveFile/Folder].

The Suite also includes the Save2SFS application. This can be used to create or modify an adrv.sfs. or ydrv.sfs. It will also automatically 'capture' settings and customizations.

FYI, the way I use the tools in the Suite is to use Remaster 1st and ONLY if there's something I want to remove. Otherwise I just use Save2SFS as it is fast, requires no User interventions --avoiding Human Error-- and even if there is some duplication of files 'on Storage' only the files from the adrv/ydrv will be in RAM after boot-up.

[mistfire]

You can try QuickPup64

[mikewalsh]

@wizard :-

Probably wouldn't take much doing to modify my own TrayControl.....the wee GUI utility I put together for opening/closing optical drive trays, and which runs from a wee icon in the notification area.

Just another idea. There's all kinds of different approaches to this one, eh?

Mike.

[wizard]

@mikewalsh

You're right Mike, the optical drive control can be configured in many ways. I've used a eject program and desktop icon for several years and find it most useful on laptops where the drive and button are on the side of the computer.

On desktops you can use the same thing, but with a toggle, so if you click it when the drive is closed, it will open and if you click it when the drive is open, it will close (I have four desktops sitting on the floor).

I'm sure if @boczniak767 can tell us any other goals and functions needed we can help get the right configuration.

wizard

[mikeslr]

Actually, boczniak767 wrote: "I'd have to reboot each machine and collect DVDs myself...". So what is needed is for the eject routine to be triggered on shutdown. [Probably not necessary and counter-productive if triggered when only rebooting].

[wizard]

@mikeslr

Mike, see my post above with the script: eject-shutdown.sh I believe that does what was requested.

wizard

[mikeslr]

@wizard, I saw it yesterday. By this morning it was already a blur. But distinct enough to suggest that the posts which followed lead in the wrong direction.

[boczniak767]

First of all thank you all for input.

Great thanks to @mikeslr, although nicOS didn't help me I've realized that there is no fully automatic way to remaster Puppy.

nicOS Remaster-Alternative also required copying files (vmlinuz, initd.gz,...).

So I had to find some patience and read this https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=71349

Eventually I've successfully remastered Puppy using default tool. In fact Puppy still prompts to set regional settings and main locale is set to default USA BUT for me important thing is that keyboard is set to Polish so I can tell students to just click OK .

As of DVD tray, as DVD can be removed I just make "remove DVD after startup" holy rule at my classes.
But, @wizard thanks for script It works as charm, I'll include it in remaster just in case.

I'm quite surprised that when I included firefox in installation (copying also files from /root/etc to /tmp/etc) it preserved also settings as history and open tabs.
I have just remember to clear history and any personal info after preparing DVD for my classes.

I've now to learn how to remove preinstalled software, for example I don't need Light browser...

[mikeslr]

Again, this is something I haven't done (don't work with DVS) but AFAIK, should work.

In Puppys the SaveFile, SaveFolder or an adrv or ydrv is used to preserve settings, customizations and User-installed applications. I think you should be able to create a master DVD, leave it open, add your customizations, write a Save to the DVD, then clone it.

The same is true with 'external' applications. Web-browser, including firefox, often have to be Updated. Mikewalsh publishes portable web-browser (and other applications). See, viewtopic.php?p=48734#p48734 for the 'almost' complete list, and viewtopic.php?p=68191#p68191 for his portable-wine.

Portables are like Window-portables. You just download the archive, unpack it and move the unpacked folder to the location of your choice. AFAIK, that could be on your DVD. His portables write their settings and customizations to their own respective folders, create menu entries from wherever they are, and most (including firefox) can be updated. So it wouldn't be necessary to burn new DVDs just to update web-browsers.

The downside, of course, is that a Writable DVD can be written to by anyone.

p.s. You might want to check offerings in the Additional Software Educational Section. viewforum.php?f=98

[boczniak767]

I think you should be able to create a master DVD, leave it open, add your customizations, write a Save to the DVD, then clone it.

Do I understand correctly, that I can add (burn) new files to my DVD created from iso?

The same is true with 'external' applications. Web-browser, including firefox, often have to be Updated. Mikewalsh publishes portable web-browser (and other applications). See, viewtopic.php?p=48734#p48734 for the 'almost' complete list, and viewtopic.php?p=68191#p68191 for his portable-wine.

Portables are like Window-portables. You just download the archive, unpack it and move the unpacked folder to the location of your choice. AFAIK, that could be on your DVD. His portables write their settings and customizations to their own respective folders, create menu entries from wherever they are, and most (including firefox) can be updated. So it wouldn't be necessary to burn new DVDs just to update web-browsers.

The downside, of course, is that a Writable DVD can be written to by anyone.

Good point, during my classes the browser will be frequently used so I want it to be as secure as possible.
This is one of the reasons I choose "JammyPup" as I believe it is based on current Ubuntu Jammy so is up to date (most up to date Puppy?) - correct me if I'm wrong.

Do I understand correctly, that I can install portable Firefox in /root and then copy it to /tmp/root as other stuff and it will work after remaster?

As I want ensure that browser is good enough to work with for example Overleaf (it doesn't work with Palemoon) I want to use Firefox. Unfortunately in my created test DVD it extended boot by one minute (in fact it is not bad for me but I'd like to provide students as fast system as possible). I'll try Slacko (and SlackwarePup) as I see it has Firefox preinstalled so maybe it will boot faster.

EDIT I switched to Fossa, I thought that if it is on the main Puppy page then it must be somehow official.
And I was positively surprised as it include special browser installer with multiple entries.
So I installed Firefox, it was old version but it was successfully updated

[bigpup]

Do I understand correctly, that I can add (burn) new files to my DVD created from iso?

If you burn the ISO image to the DVD and do not do a closed burn.

Then the DVD is still open to do more burning files to it.

I guess, if you have a remastered version burned to the DVD and and if it is using a save on some other drive.
You could burn files to the unused area and still be able to remove the DVD at any time.
but these files would not be in the normal operating file system.
/mnt/sr0/ most likely would be their location to the operating file system (sr0 is usually the DVD/CD drive).

Normally we burn a CD/DVD install not closed, so you can burn the save to the CD/DVD and use the save from that location.
When the save is updated the new updates are burned on the DVD.
But running this way the DVD does have to be installed.

There was a feature of running this way, that after boot up was complete, and everything was loaded in memory.
You could remove the CD/DVD.
But any changes are going into a save ramdisk in memory that uses system RAM.
At shutdown it would ask to put the CD/DVD back in the drive, so the shutdown process could update the save on the CD/DVD.

With all the updates and changes to how Puppy works, not sure it does still do this.

I have not used CD/DVD installs in years.
Need to do one and try it to see if it will still do this.

[boczniak767]

Here's how to do a remaster that will save all your changes in FossaPup64 9.5.

Post number 9 on the program: 95fix.sh
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 603#p17603

wizard

Ok, so I followed this post.

But first what I've changed in FossaPup

1. after system startup set all regional settings (locale, time, keyboard) to Polish
2. turned-on firewall with only ssh and CUPS permitted
3. Installed Firefox using "easypup" (or something similar, the icon with big dog head)
4. Launched Firefox, it updated itself successfully. Then I changed some seetings, also installed adblock and set duckduckgo as default search engine
5. I've set Firefox as default browser
6. Removed some shortcuts from desktop
7. Added script eject-shutdown.sh provided by @wizard

Then I followed post about 95fix.sh exactly as described

After iso creation and booting new DVD everything was preserved (including icons' placement) BUT NOT: Polish keyboard and default browser setting (which I set to Firefox). Even though Firefox works and has everything set as requested
I wonder how it is possible if all stuff from /root and /etc has been copied to respective directories in /tmp ???
Obviously something hasn't been copied.

Funny enough, as I wrote in previous post in Jammy situation with localization was reversed (preserved ONLY Polish keyboard setting and rest set to US)

I'll appreciate help. I'm trying to get it work for three days now. I use linux and command line at daily basis but I'm too dumb to solve it.
Basically I'd like to have possibly most lightweight system with Polish locale setting and up to date Firefox. It don't have to be Fossa, Jammy,... just anything which would work - so if other Puppy flavours are easier to remaster - please let me know.

[wizard]

@boczniak767

It don't have to be Fossa, Jammy,... just anything which would work

It will be best if we pick just one and work through the problems, let's use Fossa.

I wonder how it is possible if all stuff from /root and /etc has been copied to respective directories in /tmp ???

If you open 95fix.sh in Geany you'll see that it copies both of those directories. I have never done a remaster with a language/keyboard change and that might be saved in another location.

Will do some research. Hopefully one of our other members knows where those settings are stored.

wizard

[greengeek]

I have two concerns:
1. I've tried some Puppy flavours (Void, Fossa, Jammy) and I see that none of them prompts to remove media (DVD) before shutdown/reboot.
How can I fix it. I.e. when my pupils turn-off computer DVD will remain in the drive and I don't want that. I'd have to reboot each machine and collect DVDs myself...

You do not have to reboot the PC to eject CD/DVD .
Unfortunately you cannot trust students to follow instructions so you have two choices:
1) Modify Puppy so it will not shut down until it has ejected the CD/DVD itself.
or:
2) Make a modified paperclip (straighten out one side) so that you can push the paperclip into the CD/DVD unlock hole and allow the drive to release the disc. This is quicker than rebooting then ejecting CD.

[greengeek]

nicOS didn't help me I've realized that there is no fully automatic way to remaster Puppy.

True.
Which is your preference - boot from CD/DVD - or boot from hard drive or usb stick?

[greengeek]

You can try QuickPup64

Any link?

[one]

You can try QuickPup64

Any link?

Hi @greengeek,

you find it here:

(by @mistfire Fri Sep 15, 2023)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EYmni- ... CQQLHP4u5S

peace

[MochiMoppel]

@boczniak767

1. I've tried some Puppy flavours (Void, Fossa, Jammy) and I see that none of them prompts to remove media (DVD) before shutdown/reboot.
How can I fix it. I.e. when my pupils turn-off computer DVD will remain in the drive and I don't want that. I'd have to reboot each machine and collect DVDs myself...

Based on @wizard 's script

Code: Select all

eject
sleep 3
wmpoweroff

I've added a simple prompt, which tells your pupils what to do and give them whatever time they need to remove the DVD. After they pushed OK the tray will close. It only prompts when there is still a DVD in the slot. If they already have removed the DVD before; then the script goes straight to wmpoweroff

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash
if  [[ $(blkid /dev/sr0) ]] ;then
	eject
	Xdialog -msg "Please remove DVD now\n\nWhen you are done, press OK" 180x80
	eject -t
fi
Xdialog -info wmpoweroff 180x80

Note that the last line Xdialog -info wmpoweroff 180x80 allows testing of the script without actually shutting down. When you are comfortable that it works replace the line with wmpoweroff

If you find that some kids push OK without removing the disc it would be possible to put the dialog into a loop and repeat the prompt until the disc has been removed, but I'm sure your pupils behave well and always do what they are told to do

[mikewalsh]

.....but I'm sure your pupils behave well and always do what they are told to do

^^^ Lololol!!!

Yeah, riiiiight.....

Might be a case of wishful thinking there, Mochi. Definitely NOT if they were anything like MY year-group back in the 70s..!

Mike.

[boczniak767]

I hope I'm not happy too fast (of course, see edit at the bottom) but Guys, I succeeded
although with some workarounds

1. So I was fixed to use FossaPup
2. I've installed @amethyst suite viewtopic.php?p=12983#p12983 as advised by @mikeslr
3. I've also placed on a desktop shortcut to eject-shutdown.sh from @wizard
4. I've done some customizations as outlined in viewtopic.php?p=99181#p99181
Of course locale and firewall customizations have been done first, I have to synchronize clock as it was two hours late
I've also changed icons' scheme (to minimal) and placement with JWM Desktop Manager - so it was at the LEFT side

5. As I read details about Puppy internals provided here viewtopic.php?t=5818 I started to think, that the most important file is adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
6. So i launched nicOS Save2SFS and saved settings to adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

And I saved it to /mnt/sda3 (it is important as I've used this partition later)

7. Then I launched nicOS Remaster-Alternative as from my earlier trials I knew that *.sfs files can be added
I've checked all options (BTW there is usefull help for each tool)

I proceeded till this window

I experimented regarding copying directories. After all manual copy of /root and /etc don't give anything new.
BUT I've recalled that in 95fix.sh link https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 603#p17603 provided by @wizard there was step which copied PuppyPin to PuppyPin-norm and PuppyPin-sml.
I thought that it caused that desktop changes was saved during one of my earlier remasters.
I've searched for PuppyPin and found it in my remaster directory /mnt/sda3/PuppyRemaster/root/Choices/ROX-Filer. The important point is that PuppyPin-norm and PuppyPin-sml are old (BTW, I can see that checking modification times are crucial in remastering) so I copied PuppyPin to PuppyPin-norm and PuppyPin-sml in this directory.

Then I clicked OK in Final Check window.

8. So I arrived to this window

And here is obvious error which I've selected. Even though in my first attempt I hadn't copied boot and so DVD didn't booted.

So I decided to copy my adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs created in step 6. and copy everything from /mnt/sr0/ without overwriting newer files

Details on image, please look at files' modification times (I've sorted it according to date, newer first)
The window at the left is my NewPuppy directory.

Finally I clicked OK and created my .iso file.

It turned out that localization was completely preserved, along with firefox and it's customization. Even wallpaper (which I've changed) was saved.
But still, Palemoon was default browser. Situation with icons was funny, every one remained on desktop but the automatic-ones (ie. these setup in step 4.) was now at the RIGHT side.

9. So I decided to make a Reamster of Remaster (as I though it will e faster and I'm rrrreallly tired making customizations over and over again...)
As in the remaster the placement of shortcut to eject-shutdown.sh was preserved I deduced that if you move icons manually placement is conserved if you do it automatically then you should be prepared for surprise.
So I reorganized icons manually in the left top corner. As Firefox was still not default I decided to remove any shortcuts to Palemoon from desktop (manually and using JWM Desktop Manager).
Then I tried to remove Palemoon package using "Remove Build-in packages" from menu but it was not successful after remaster.
I've added shortcut to Firefox (drag and drop from localization given by which firefox command), It has default icon for executables (#!) so I set the icon to this called mozilla... in icon directory (I don't remeber where it was).
I've also added shortcut to Firefox to tray using JWM Desktop Manager

9. So again I've remastered system in the same manner as above.

10. Summing-up. Now I have system with Polish regional settings and firewall with only ssh and cups allowed. After reboot the start screen with these settings is not showing.
There are also two shortcuts to Firefox, one at desktop and one at the tray. Palemoon eventually was not removed but now it is "not default" as launching Firefox is easier and Palemoon is buried in main menu.
The system boots 3 min 43 s at my old (bought in 2008) two-core (Intel Core2 duo CPU T5250) computer with 4Gb RAM.
I'm so happy I haven't throw-out this old machine. It is perfect for testing. If something works good on it then it will work very-good at computers in the classroom.

I know this post is complicated and not necessarily tidy. I hope it preserves the method for both other users and me. Feel free to edit it if you find something erroneous. Even though the topic is still actual as not every customization was successfully done.

Edit Of course I was happy to fast. I've tested my remastered FossaPuppy on my home computer and it turns out that Polish keyboard setting was reversed to US. Oh no Is it possible that locale is set differently on different PCs when using the same DVD? Hey maybe there are terminal command which would set keyboard locale so I can make a script for it, similarly as with ejecting DVD? Nevertheless I'll check it on different computer. Super sad

From help to settings:

So still I don't understand...
my keymap contains "pl" so as requested. Why this translates correctly on one computer but no on other?

[boczniak767]

2) Make a modified paperclip (straighten out one side) so that you can push the paperclip into the CD/DVD unlock hole and allow the drive to release the disc. This is quicker than rebooting then ejecting CD.

So there are three options

• Students remove DVD after startup

• Students remove DVD using eject-shutdown.sh

• I remove DVD using paper clip (Thanks, I've known this trick but haven't realized that it will be useful here )

Which is your preference - boot from CD/DVD - or boot from hard drive or usb stick?

I'll use DVD, they are cheap and if some of them broke or will be missed I'll not cry.

[amethyst]

2) Make a modified paperclip (straighten out one side) so that you can push the paperclip into the CD/DVD unlock hole and allow the drive to release the disc. This is quicker than rebooting then ejecting CD.

Thanks, I've konw this trick but haven't realized that it will be useful here

I've used @wizard script already but the hardware option is good as a backup.

Which is your preference - boot from CD/DVD - or boot from hard drive or usb stick?

I'll use DVD, they are cheap and if some of them broke or will be missed I'll not cry.

You can make an entirely read-only system with a frugal install to harddrive or usbdrive and you can save your changes easily to read-only format too. I wouldn't recommend the CD/DVD option at all, it's slow and cumbersome. And - you do not have to do a remaster at all, I see you have already downloaded some of my tools which is all you really need to make a read-only system. BTW - click the help button of the save2sfs module of the nicOS-Utility-Suite. This will give you valuable information how it works. I did read your previous post and happy that you have moved to a successful, working puppy but please consider what has been said in this post, it's definitely the better option.

[boczniak767]

I wouldn't recommend the CD/DVD option at all, it's slow and cumbersome.

The problem is that I have classes in two rooms. One of them have Linux mint installed so it is OK.
But the second one has old computers, I think newer than from 2008 but still...
They have Windows preinstalled and some of them crashes sometimes.
The IT team of my department is not helpful so I'm on my own.

So I need completely flexible and independent method to make my classes technically unproblematic and predictable.
Also I don't want to buy USB sticks as I have a lot of DVDs. I also can't say students that they have to bring their own USB drive.

After all, after loading everything to RAM the system runs very quickly. Even browser starts quickly.

[amethyst]

I wouldn't recommend the CD/DVD option at all, it's slow and cumbersome.

The problem is that I have classes in two rooms. One of them have Linux mint installed soit is OK.
But the second one has old computers, I think newer than from 2008 but still...
They have Windows preinstalled and some of them crashes sometimes.
The IT team of my department is not helpful so I'm on my own.

So I need completely flexible and independent method to make my classes technically unproblematic and predictable.
Also I don't want to buy USB sticks as I have a lot of DVDs. I also can't say students that they have to bring their own USB drive.

You can make dual- boot systems with those machines that do have Windows and other LInux systems already. DVD's are SLOWWW...

[boczniak767]

Oh, I was not precise. I use DVD+RW (purchased specifically for this purpose by my department). So I can burn different OS'es as needed.

So you can imagine I don't want to just throw out disks.

Besides, it shows students that in Linux world there is something like Live distribution. Of course I realise that for students CDs and DVDs are just "Antique" stuff (probably like for me diskettes).

BTW, I'm surely from the CD generation