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I used Smartchk:
First on my old HDD ― which it said was failing; which I suspected.
Then on the new HDD ― for which it didn't show any information; so I guess it doesn't support this Smart thing. Also using the smartctl GUI from PPM ― it showed that the new HDD and new SSD - don't support it.
So can I use some other\general tool?
(edit: conclusion - there isn't a way \\ to see physical signs and move the files to a different drive)
How are these new drives connected to the computer?
From the smartchk topic:
NOTE: Drives connected by USB may not work. Otherwise, if nothing is reported your Puppy may
have conflicts with the included smartctl versions. Install smartmontools from the package manager
and try agaIn. Smartchk will automatically use that smartctl version.
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected 
How are these new drives connected to the computer?
The 2 HDDs with USB; the SSD is Internal NVMe.
@puppy_apprentice:
Used HDSentinel:
• It worked on the Old HDD ― nothing new.
• Worked on the SSD.
• Didn't work on the new HDD:
Code: Select all
The status of the hard disk is unknown.
This USB storage device does not provide more information about itemself.Who is the manufacturer of this drive. Which model. I will avoid it if I want to buy a new one.
Some infos:
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=357598
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... hard-drive
https://www.baeldung.com/linux/storage- ... eck-health
HdSentinel reads smart data from all my drives (5yrs old or more).
I think you will find the problem is not the drive, but in the USB interface.
wizard
Big pile of OLD computers
The USB interface has to have the capability to pass the smart information.
A lot of them do not have this ability.
So drives using USB are most likely not going to provide Smart information.
They will not do it on my computers, for drives connected by USB.
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
I use usb external case (SATA III, compatible with earlier SATAs) for external drives.
wizard wrote:I think you will find the problem is not the drive, but in the USB interface.
MrAccident wrote:The 2 HDDs with USB
One hdd is working.
Another not.
If they use the same cable in the same computer it is drive problem.
If they are external drives with own cables so maybe the usb socket is too loose. I had a case where one usb cable (cheap) did not have a good contact and the system either did not see the drive at all or the drive appeared and disappeared on the desktop. Changing the cable helped.
One hdd is working.
Another not.If they use the same cable in the same computer it is drive problem.
External USB drives have an interface, also called a bridge, in the case that converts SATA to USB. That is the part that does not allow the SMART data to be accessed. There are some bridge chipsets that do comply with SMART, but you have to research which ones. If @MrAccident takes the drives out of the USB case and attaches them directly to a SATA cable he will be able to read the SMART parameters.
wizard
Big pile of OLD computers
Ok. But i have Seagate external drive (fortunately with proper chip) but if I wanted to remove such a drive from the case (there are no screws) I would lose the warranty. So if you have a a such a disk with bad chip and packaged in a sealed case - it is a disk (disk as a product - enclosure+disk+bridge -that you buy in the store) problem.
I have never bought such an external drive (with problematic bridge) and have not checked the drives for SMART before buying. Western Digital and Seagate external backup drives always have a proper usb interface. That's why I wonder what manufacturer releases such drives - problematic products? China "nonames"?
I believe if a manufacturer is selling external disks with "stripped" SMART feature the disks are not good quality. I guess the right bridge is not that expensive relative to the drive to save on it?
@puppy_apprentice:
Seagate Basic 5TB USB 3.0 External Hard Drive, Gray (STJL5000400)
I switched between the 2 HDDs, disconnecting them from their separate cables, preserving the locations of the cables ― and the results are the same.
Is there a tool - that directly probes the drive? Either here-&-there strategically or the whole drive?
That's why I wonder what manufacturer releases such drives - problematic products? China "nonames"?
I believe if a manufacturer is selling external disks with "stripped" SMART feature the disks are not good quality.
No good answer for your questions, name brands will most likely comply, but no guarantee since there are no standards or requirements for SMART compatibility. Personally, none of my "no name" USB external drives support SMART. That does not mean the drive itself is poor quality, since I have tested them accordingly.
wizard
Big pile of OLD computers
MrAccident wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2023 3:27 pmSeagate Basic 5TB USB 3.0 External Hard Drive, Gray (STJL5000400)
Try SeaTools for Linux:
https://www.seagate.com/pl/pl/support/d ... /seatools/
Or, if you have access to a Windows computer, check the hard drive on it (you'll know if it's a system problem).
No store in Poland provides information about the lack of SMART for this drive.
If you don't care about the warranty then you can follow wizard's advice and rip the drive out of the case 
But first try SeaTools.
@puppy_apprentice:
Thanks. Haven't thought of searching for SeaGate software.
The results don't help much though:
◇ In the Status section: the SSD ― is the only one that has a green ✓, and it's a brand-less SSD; the old HDD(also SeaGate) ― has an orange circle with with an Exclamation Sign; the new HDD ― has a Question Mark.
◇ The new HDD ― indeed is missing the SMART section in the Details. It recognizes the drive ― so probably - it really doesn't have SMART.
◇ The tests ― show a very simple information: "test started, test aborted, test started, test passed" etc.
So I didn't really understand how good is the health of the new drive, nor the old. Hopefully - by the time the new drive will be roughly old enough to need a test ― they'll have a better program.
Windoze - is probably my last hope. I have access to a computer with it ― but will it be able to test an ext4 drive?
MrAccident wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 11:10 pmWindoze - is probably my last hope. I have access to a computer with it ― but will it be able to test an ext4 drive?
SMART feature is independent of file system. Windows can only display information that the drive is unformatted or that it has a bad file system.
You can download SeaTools bootable version. It should be in .iso format, so you can prepare bootable CD or add it to GRUB/Syslinux boot menu.
You can try Ultimate Boot CD - special bootable CD with many diagnostic tools - include SeaTools too (and others for Hitachi, Samsung and etc.).
I hope that this disk has SMART, but Basic in it's name may mean - no SMART. You can always send e-mail to SeaGate and ask about SMART in their disks. As you will in the future buy a drive you will know which models to avoid.
Edit:
For SSDs, perhaps the most important SMART parameter is how many times the disk cells were overwritten. So a SSD (for backup) without SMART is like a usb stick with better cells and TRIM feature. Should work without problems for 5 (or even 10 years).
Some computers have SMART checking in BIOS:
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/om ... 3152626-16
I've prepared for myself bootable emergency W7 CDs (made with PowerISO). Only file manager and CMD (windows console):
32bit Expire after 7days
64bit Expire after 7days
Check disk S.M.A.R.T info from CMD
You can use any (almost) portable disk checking app in those emergency W7.
@puppy_apprentice:
It says Basic. It most likely doesn't have SMART ― because SeaTools showed the SMART information for the other SeaGate drive and for the unknown SSD; so obviously it should show it for their drive. That's probably why it was the cheapest HDD, duh.
So which tools can work without SMART?
None.
For my SSD HDSentinel show this:
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Estimated lifetime: more than 1000 days ----> SMART #231
Total Written: 184 GB ----> SMART #241, HEX B8If you don't have SMART info you have to predict life of your disk 'manually'.
My disk capacity is 224GB. It has QLC NAND cells which supports a maximum of 1,000 write cycles.
So far I've written 184GB. So 184GB/224GB is 0.82 write cycles. I'll start to worry after 500 write cycles.
You don't have the total number of GB saved from SMART, so you'll have to calculate it yourself. You have to remember how many times you filled the SSD to the max and convert that into write cycles
Maybe EXT4 file system count total bytes written to the disk and you can read that data. I don't know.
You have to remember how many times you filled the SSD to the max...
I won't be able to do this ― because: some things I keep forever, some things I download and then delete.
The thing I've noticed ― is that for the old HDD - HDSentinel showed corrupted sectors, and said that the drive writes around them; is that how it works in HDDs? Cause if so - I should be able to see that \ that it takes longer to to things, for instance - videos\audios start to stop - like it happens now with the old HDD, and in Gatotray - there's the yellow hills etc. Also my CherryTree file became corrupted (I was able to save the text from it. So I'll see a lot of signs - before the actual collapse? (unless of course there will be a mechanical failure before that).
P.S. - I'll have a backup of everything on another drive.
HDD's and SSD's are very different animals. In the case of HDD's once they start developing bad sectors they will continue to degrade and fail, the advice is to copy all of the data to another drive, do a secure erase of the old drive and recycle it.
wizard
Big pile of OLD computers
20 years ago I had a disk with bad blocks/sectors. I used tools from Ultimate Boot CD. Some remapped bad sectors/blocks to good ones (HDDs have a certain pool of free sectors). Some repaired the bad blocks. One tool listed all the bad sectors with information where on the disk those sectors were located. This allowed me to create partitions where the drive was error free. But as wizard wrote, once you have errors on the drive and can hear grinding, it's time to move the data to a new drive.
You can backup all the data from that disk and try low level format. But you have to start to move confidential and important data to another drive.
once you have errors on the drive and can hear grinding, it's time to move the data to a new drive.
That was my point ― that I'll have time to move the files - before it Fails.
Thanks
I'm going to have 1 HDD for all my files, and 1 for a backup of all those files, using Grsync. Copying all the files from the old HDD ― there were quite a few corrupt files. So I thought it can be a good way to know when one of them will start to malfunction (since it doesn't have SMART).
So my question is - am I going to see the corrupt files ― no matter which of the HDDs is the one I'm copying from and which I'm copying to?