How to do FULL install (Not Frugal!) of S15Pup 64 in 2nd partition?

[chilibowl]

Hello Fellow Puppy Linux users+exPerimenters .

I have down loaded S15 Pup 64 and I seem to like it ~despite what others may say about its "ugly"GUI -lack of wall paper .
I want to install it along side my Fossa Pup64 in its own halve of the Hard drive (in SDA2) . I have performed a FULL install of the Fossa Pup 64 (in SDa1) & seem to have NO problems SOO FAR as to use-ability of that distro. -Despite a good bunch of Forum members-who say its Not good to do a FullInstall . Ijust am used to doing it that way.

Ihave installed Slacko 7.0 onto my SDA2 partition , Using only FRUGAL install& I have trouble Ripping DVD-s onto it -so I suspect that the Frugal install is not as useable for Multi Media applications as a Full Install .

Iwant to perform this Full Install!! Equipment as FOLLOWS --- - HP DC 1500 Desktop - Pentium 4 LGA775 4 GB ram -No overclocking -Radeon Vid Card --320 GB Hdrive -Sata

[amethyst]

Hello Fellow Puppy Linux users+exPerimenters .

I have down loaded S15 Pup 64 and I seem to like it ~despite what others may say about its "ugly"GUI -lack of wall paper .
I want to install it along side my Fossa Pup64 in its own halve of the Hard drive (in SDA2) . I have performed a FULL install of the Fossa Pup 64 (in SDa1) & seem to have NO problems SOO FAR as to use-ability of that distro. -Despite a good bunch of Forum members-who say its Not good to do a FullInstall . Ijust am used to doing it that way.

Ihave installed Slacko 7.0 onto my SDA2 partition , Using only FRUGAL install& I have trouble Ripping DVD-s onto it -so I suspect that the Frugal install is not as useable for Multi Media applications as a Full Install .

Iwant to perform this Full Install!! Equipment as FOLLOWS --- - HP DC 1500 Desktop - Pentium 4 LGA775 4 GB ram -No overclocking -Radeon Vid Card --320 GB Hdrive -Sata

A frugal install is every much as functional as a full install and has many more advantages. If you save your session changes it works like a full install would work. One of the big advantages of a frugal install is that you can actually have many Puppys frugally installed on the same partition and choose which one to run. DO A FRUGAL INSTALL. It could be as easy as manually copying the Puppy files and editing the boot configuration file.

[bigpup]

I have trouble Ripping DVD-s onto it -so I suspect that the Frugal install is not as usable for Multi Media applications as a Full Install .

Then you are doing something wrong.

But with no specific info on exactly what you are doing and using what program to do it.
No way for us to give you a fix.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are some specific features of Puppy Linux that are only provided by a frugal install.

frugal installs:

Can be put on any partition any format, any type storage device.

They load more of Puppy into RAM. Runs faster.

If RAM usage is an issue.
You can choose to not load into RAM. Will start faster, but run slower. (basically like a full install runs)

Easier to backup, because all changes, settings, are in the save. The core Puppy files never change. Only what is in the save changes. All you have to do is copy the save to have a backup.
If Puppy really gets messed up. Just delete the save, and replace it with the backup save. Everything back to the way it was, before you messed it up.
All settings, configurations, added software, etc......

Can store the save, on a different drive or partition, from the one the frugal install is on.

Can make several saves to use, if you want to have different setups, configurations, and added software setups.
Choose the save to use when it boots.

Using a save file,
It can be stored on any format.

Can control what gets saved or not saved, when running in pupmode 13.
Can easily, try something, and as long as you do not update the save, it is not a permanent change.
Something goes wrong or do not want it.
Just do not update the save and it is gone.
Back to the way everything was, before you did whatever.

You can easily load or unload SFS program packages.
This lets you use a program without actually installing it to Puppy. You will have to use this option to fully understand it.

Can install multiple versions of Puppy on the same partition.

All of Puppy is placed in a directory (folder).
You can have many Puppies on one partition.
All completely separate from the other.
All in different directories (Linux term for folder).

Full installs:
Must be installed to a Linux formatted partition.
Uses the entire partition.
Main advantage is it uses less memory to boot to desktop.
Does not use layered file system.
Works best for compiling.
Does not run into size limit that a save file has on a fat32 format.

[mikeslr]

If you have problems with an application running from a 'Frugal Install' the likely reasons are either that Puppy or its handling of that application because the operating systems of a full install and a frugal install are identical!

You can only run a 'Full Install' from a Linux formatted partition. But if you have a Linux formatted partition you can create a SaveFolder on it, and once again --as with a Full Install-- your operating system can make use of that entire partition without ever having to make any further changes.

There are, however, some practical differences: (1) With a Frugal Install you can usually undo any problem you encounter and can backup your SaveFolder so that if there is a un-fixable problem you have a 'fall back'. With a Full Install any problem --including the inadvertent and unrecognized infection of malware-- is almost always un-fixable requiring that you wipe your system and rebuild from scratch. (2) You can configure a Frugal Install so that it only writes to storage on demand, thus preventing malware from ever getting into your permanent operating system. Full installs immediately write to storage and have NO MECHANISM to prevent that.

(3) A Frugal Install is very efficient in managing RAM, moving information into and out of RAM Cache so that almost all RAM is available to be used to manipulate that information. Still some RAM is being used to store an application's instructions so will not be available that would be available under a Full Install. With 4 Gbs of RAM there is little reason to believe that 'unusable for manipulation of information' RAM will make any significant difference. But if the boot-menu stanza for your frugal install includes the 'no copy' argument, I don't think even that difference exists.

A Full Install was developed when computers typically only had 256 Mbs of RAM; about 15 years ago. It has not been worked on since then. Today, it is rare that a computer has less than 512 Mbs of RAM; and there are very few (if any) Puppys published in the last 5 years which will function, at all, from a computer with less than 512 Mbs of RAM.

All that being said, AFAIK there is a way to do a 'Full Install'. But its been hidden to prevent newbies from inadvertently being mislead into thinking it is better resulting in our having to give advice as to how to unscramble the resulting mess. I don't recall how to 'unhide it.'

If you promise to NEVER ask for help WHEN you have a problem with a Full install I'm sure someone will explain what you have to do.

[peebee]

I suspect that the Frugal install is not as usable for Multi Media applications as a Full Install

Frugal install should be identical to Full install with regard to "Multi Media applications".......

If you must - see viewtopic.php?p=79135

[mikewalsh]

@chilibowl :-

Almost certainly a good part of your problem is that Pentium 4. Yes, I know it's a 64-bit version, and yes, I know Intel touted the P4s as being 'multimedia-ready'. Never was a bigger lie uttered by a major corporation; the P4s are useless at doing anything multimedia-intensive.

I should know. I used to run one myself.......and frankly, I was glad to see the back of it.

I regularly video-edit and record live streams, etc, from multiple different 'frugal' Pups. In the early days with Puppy I, too, didn't understand the insistence that 'frugal is better'. Since running them that way, I agree with the premise.....and nowadays, I wouldn't give a full install house-room.

Horses for courses.

Mike.

[wizard]

@chilibowl

Using only FRUGAL install& I have trouble Ripping DVD-s onto it -so I suspect that the Frugal install is not as useable for Multi Media applications as a Full Install .

I still have some P4 systems much like yours and they still work well for many tasks. The trouble you are having may not be related to a difference between frugal or full installs. As you move up the Puppy evolution chain you are pulling a more demanding system load. To put it in @mikewalsh terms, the wagons getting bigger, but you got the same small horse.

Do some tests, same distro, full install vs frugal. Be sure to have a generous swap file. Post back with your results, we'll be interested.

Thanks
wizard

[mikewalsh]

@chilibowl / @wizard :-

Heh. Yah, Wiz has put it better than I did. The analogy is truer than ever; Puppies, unfortunately, ARE steadily getting larger, more complex and more demanding. It's not their fault, but rather just the way OS development is going; consequently, you need a CPU with more 'legs' to cope with everything additional going on in the background.

Indeed, P4s - preferably later ones! - are still "functional", but that is an OLD design, long since superseded by much lower-powered, far more powerful & efficient processors that will run rings round them and leave them standing in the dust....

Mike.

[ozsouth]

I suspect @chilibowl is having the same issue that used to make me think I had to have a full install for kernel compiling -
if you run frugal & want to use a lot of disk space, you MUST mount a hard drive partition & cd into that (or make it your
DVD ripping destination), OTHERWISE once your ram is exhausted, you will run out of space.

[mikewalsh]

I suspect @chilibowl is having the same issue that used to make me think I had to have a full install for kernel compiling -
if you run frugal & want to use a lot of disk space, you MUST mount a hard drive partition & cd into that (or make it your
DVD ripping destination), OTHERWISE once your ram is exhausted, you will run out of space.

@ozsouth :-

Makes sense.

I have a half-dozen "WORK" areas set-up on my 3 TB secondary data drive, sym-linked into Puppy where I can access them immediately.....yet the 'work' - of course - is occurring externally to Puppy itself. This drive, amongst others, is set to auto-mount at boot, since most Pups are 'sharing' a fair few common items from that same drive...

Mike.

[bigpup]

chilibowl has left the building.

We are talking to to each other.

[peebee]

chilibowl has left the building.

We are talking to to each other.

Snap - I was just about to say that

[wizard]

chilibowl has left the building.

We are talking to to each other.

Take heart, many times those left reading the topic learn much from the discussion even after the OP disappears.

Thanks
wizard

[mikeslr]

chilibowl has left the building.

We are talking to to each other.

Take heart, many times those left reading the topic learn much from the discussion even after the OP disappears.

Thanks
wizard

As I did. In the hope of making the advice on this thread easier to find, I've summarized it here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 294#p81294. Feel free to correct any errors I may have made or add any advice to that thread you may think useful.

[bigpup]

chilibowl has left the building.

We are talking to to each other.

Take heart, many times those left reading the topic learn much from the discussion even after the OP disappears.

Thanks
wizard

I totally agree about the info could provide help to others.

But making a topic and never replying to anything given to try and help!
that is like talking to someone and walking away, while they are still speaking

[geo_c]

I totally agree about the info could provide help to others.

But not making a topic and never replying to anything given to try and help!
that is like talking to someone and walking away, while they are still speaking

Maybe @chilibowl has no operating system to boot at the moment!

[chilibowl]

Yes-Chilibowl is BACk after much needed work on other Matters!!!

BTw I DID install the s15Pup 64 withb only a"frugal" install - since i DID NOT want to Toast my Hard-Drive!!

Imust say it works very well as a Dual -boot system with the FOssa Pup .

Btw how is Security on this Distro as of Present??? March 24 2023!!

Computers are justa Tool usually leanered by a Fool,,,

adios- chili-bowl

[Flash]

@chilibowl, if you're still listening, ripping DVDs takes a lot of memory. 4 GB of RAM may not be enough to do the job properly. Do you have a swap partition?

[bigpup]

Btw how is Security on this Distro as of Present??? March 24 2023!!

AS good as any other version of Puppy Linux.

Depends on what your definition of security is.

[pp4mnklinux]

I share your oppinion. I used xenial pup fully installed and I am amazed with the way it works.

Now im using a modded versión of F96 C3 installed frugal into a pen drive and in sime.days I'll install it frugal in one of my disk particions.

That mensaje, I love full puppy install, but I don't dislike frugal ones.

I think the best is knowing how and when use each one.

Hello Fellow Puppy Linux users+exPerimenters .

I have down loaded S15 Pup 64 and I seem to like it ~despite what others may say about its "ugly"GUI -lack of wall paper .
I want to install it along side my Fossa Pup64 in its own halve of the Hard drive (in SDA2) . I have performed a FULL install of the Fossa Pup 64 (in SDa1) & seem to have NO problems SOO FAR as to use-ability of that distro. -Despite a good bunch of Forum members-who say its Not good to do a FullInstall . Ijust am used to doing it that way.

Ihave installed Slacko 7.0 onto my SDA2 partition , Using only FRUGAL install& I have trouble Ripping DVD-s onto it -so I suspect that the Frugal install is not as useable for Multi Media applications as a Full Install .

Remember, no one knows your needs better than u, and with computers you are the one who know what u need, haha.

Iwant to perform this Full Install!! Equipment as FOLLOWS --- - HP DC 1500 Desktop - Pentium 4 LGA775 4 GB ram -No overclocking -Radeon Vid Card --320 GB Hdrive -Sata

[chilibowl]

Ok -addressing this to BUG PUP ,

how is security with that D Distro Ihave ??

Is it ok to use with the built in Firewal setup?? via a typical american Ethernet Ip set up (via DHCP) ??

or should i get into some Vastly more complicated Firewall setup or VPN???

adios-chilibowl

[sucuklu yumurta]

Frugal install should be identical to Full install with regard to "Multi Media applications"

there's a bit of a difference.
it makes a slight difference, frugal video play works fine, the same video has some difficulty with full installation

[mikeslr]

Answering the question "How safe is a frugally installed Puppy compared to other distros?" As safe or safer.

On bootup frugally installed Puppy copies into RAM it's entire operating system with the exception of its SaveFile or SaveFolder. These are mounted. With that exception [but see my last paragraph], on each boot-up you have a pristine operating system because --with the exception of the SaveFile/Folder-- the components of the operating system on storage are READ-ONLY and RAM is 'wiped' on reboot/shutdown.. Human errors and malware can't effect them.

The primary 'Achilles heal' of a Frugally installed Puppy is its READ-Write SaveFile/Folder. The web is the 'mother of all malware'. I've tested running applications 'run as Spot' and --if you have properly configured 'Spot'-- your Puppy system is just as secure as a major 'Linux' that isolates the USER's Home Folder from the applications. Spot's download and upload folders are similarly isolated from the rest of your system. It is also as secure as using a firejail. Secure but not private. Hackers can still 'fingerprint' --identify your specific system, Puppy or otherwise. Web-browser extentions/addons can help prevent this to some extent.
More security can be had by (a) using a reputable VPN, a Web-browser built into a Chroot, or EasyOS which runs applications (even entire alternate operating systems) in a container or Puli which has modules to foil hackers.

With any Puppy the potential threat from hackers to a SaveFile/Folder can be entirely eliminated by employing amethyst's nicOS-Utilities-Suite's Save2SFS, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 983#p12983. It enables you to substitute READ-ONLY adrv and/or ydrv for a SaveFile/Folder. But, of course, you loose a SaveFolder's flexibility of auto-expansion as needed. There are two easy workarounds. (1) You can have a SaveFile/Folder. You don't have to be on line while performing video rendering. So, you can add a second boot Stanza: one boots pfix=ram (e.g. boot without employing the SaveFile/Folder) and one using a SaveFile/Folder. Or (2) perform the video rendering externally.

However, I recall reading that on reboot/shutdown, the contents of a Swap are not entirely cleared. I could be wrong. Someone who knows more about this might have some ideas.

[amethyst]

But, of course, you loose a SaveFolder's flexibility of auto-expansion as needed.

What do you mean with this?

[mikewalsh]

But, of course, you loose a SaveFolder's flexibility of auto-expansion as needed.

What do you mean with this?

@amethyst :-

I would guess, Nic, that Mike is merely referring to a save-folder's ability to expand, or 'grow' up to the maximum size permitted by the available space in that partition......as opposed to the older save-file, which is of fixed size.

Mike.