Grub2config replaces Grub4Dos

[Clarity]

Question: Should this subsystem be submitted/added to WoofCE or, in the very least, be evaluated for inclusion-replacement in the modern PUP's Menu system?

Curious

[gychang]

I like to install ubuntu followed by fossapup64 to my main UEFI PC desktop. Only hard drive is a NVME disc. I plan to install ubuntu first (auto partition sets EFI (bootloader) in 2nd partition on lateest ubuntu). Can I install FP64 in a separate partition and use grub2config to dual boot and auto configure grub boot loader?

[Tahrbaby]

Good afternoon

Does anyone know where we stand on this subject as its gotten confusing?

I find myself in a predicament dual booting on one of my two desktop PC's.
One is fine as it has UEFI and I can boot using 'Limine' all my various Puppy's plus two variations of the latest Mint releases and also Windows 11.

However,my old P4 computer with Legacy and dual booting the very same OS's and using Grub4dos will not boot Mint (although it did in the past).
I have to use Grub2 supplied with Mint unfortunately
So,to boot puppy,I have to insert a USB stick with Grub4dos installed.

Having read through from the beginning of this thread,I feel this may be the tool to use to be able to boot all my OS's without the need to use a USB stick using Grub4dos.

I have 4 partitions,the first sda1 has Windows(NTFS) installed.2nd and 3rd partitions(EXT4) have Mint variations and sda4(EXT4) all Puppy's which are in separate directories.

Could I theoretically install the above Grub2config .pet in a Puppy,run it to find all OS's and install it safely to a partition using EXT4 or are there a lot of doubts cast over it?

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

[rcrsn51]

I have to use Grub2 supplied with Mint unfortunately

I would let Mint be the primary bootloader and use its 40_custom file to handle your Puppy installs.

[Tahrbaby]

I have to use Grub2 supplied with Mint unfortunately

I would let Mint be the primary bootloader and use its 40_custom file to handle your Puppy installs.

Thank you rcrsn51.Will follow your advice

[mikeslr]

I would have given the same advice as rcrsn51. But he beat me to it. . So I'll suggest an alternate.

Acquire a (it can be small* and cheap) USB-Key from a reputable manufacturer. Install grub2config to it, but let it create grub.cfg listing for all operating systems on your computer. If grub2config installed to a USB-Key can boot Puppys and Mint, it should be able to also do that if installed to your hard-drive. Shinobar's OP is, AFAIK, the only post suggesting an exception to the use of grub2config:
"Only one case the Grub2config does not support:
When you clean install Ubuntu Linux and/or derivatives on a legacy BIOS PC, the partition sda1 is ext4 formatted. See, viewtopic.php?f=155&t=3931"

* A large USB-Key comes in handy to test anything without jeopardizing OSes on a hard-drive. The emphasis is on reputable manufacturer. Not all 'cheap' USB-Keys are of equal quality.

Rather than experiment, I boot my desktop using a USB-Key. grubconfig has listings for Windows7, Linux Mint and --at any given time-- a half dozen Puppys: my 'daily-driver' and whichever others I'm currently exploring. Rarely, but occasionally, USB-Keys can fail. So I have 2nd USB-Key as a back-up I occasionally update. Updating is as simple as plugging in both keys and copying grub.cfg from main USB-Key to the spare, overwriting it old gub.cfg. If I don't plug in such USB-Key, Linux Mint's boot-loader will offer to load either Linux Mint or Windows. But I don't have to boot into Linux Mint just to update its grub2 to play with a new Puppy.

[BarryK]

I find myself in a predicament dual booting on one of my two desktop PC's.
One is fine as it has UEFI and I can boot using 'Limine' all my various Puppy's plus two variations of the latest Mint releases and also Windows 11.

However,my old P4 computer with Legacy and dual booting the very same OS's and using Grub4dos will not boot Mint (although it did in the past).
I have to use Grub2 supplied with Mint unfortunately

Does that mean Limine also would not boot Mint on the old P4 computer?
If so, very curious to know why. If you want to investigate that further, I have posted in this Limine thread, to invite ongoing development:

viewtopic.php?p=73609#p73609

[mikewalsh]

@Tahrbaby :-

It's true I run Puppies almost exclusively. For the odd occasions when I try out a mainstream distro, I'll install the whole thing to an external USB 3.0-connected SSD, tell GRUB2 to install the bootloader TO that drive.....then I'll "chain-load" the external drive from Grub4DOS.

Works for me.

(You'll find with any question like this, you're going to get a whole slew of biased opinions, depending on individual user's personal preferences. Some here LIKE Grub2; me, I can't stand the thing.......I feel it's overly-bloated for what it actually does. In the long run, the best course of action will always be to try out several, find one that works for you.....and stick with it. Which kinda goes without saying, really.)

Mike.

[Tahrbaby]

Does that mean Limine also would not boot Mint on the old P4 computer?
If so, very curious to know why. If you want to investigate that further, I have posted in this Limine thread, to invite ongoing development:

viewtopic.php?p=73609#p73609

The problem I have is,I'm unable to install Limine to this P4 computer.
When I run Limine from the installed .pets it states the computer has UEFI and requires changing in bios but when I go into bios there is no UEFI,it doesn't support it.
From what I read it did say that Limine can be installed to older bios machines but maybe Im reading it wrong?

[Tahrbaby]

I would have given the same advice as rcrsn51. But he beat me to it. . So I'll suggest an alternate.

Acquire a (it can be small* and cheap) USB-Key from a reputable manufacturer. Install grub2config to it, but let it create grub.cfg listing for all operating systems on your computer. If grub2config installed to a USB-Key can boot Puppys and Mint, it should be able to also do that if installed to your hard-drive. Shinobar's OP is, AFAIK, the only post suggesting an exception to the use of grub2config:
"Only one case the Grub2config does not support:
When you clean install Ubuntu Linux and/or derivatives on a legacy BIOS PC, the partition sda1 is ext4 formatted. See, viewtopic.php?f=155&t=3931"

* A large USB-Key comes in handy to test anything without jeopardizing OSes on a hard-drive. The emphasis is on reputable manufacturer. Not all 'cheap' USB-Keys are of equal quality.

Rather than experiment, I boot my desktop using a USB-Key. grubconfig has listings for Windows7, Linux Mint and --at any given time-- a half dozen Puppys: my 'daily-driver' and whichever others I'm currently exploring. Rarely, but occasionally, USB-Keys can fail. So I have 2nd USB-Key as a back-up I occasionally update. Updating is as simple as plugging in both keys and copying grub.cfg from main USB-Key to the spare, overwriting it old gub.cfg. If I don't plug in such USB-Key, Linux Mint's boot-loader will offer to load either Linux Mint or Windows. But I don't have to boot into Linux Mint just to update its grub2 to play with a new Puppy.

@mikesir

Yes,I did try your above suggestion a couple of days ago,installed grub2config to a USB stick containing several Puppys.It did appear to find everything on the stick and also my Mint installs/Windows on the internal SSD.
But I stopped short of installing grub2config to the internal SSD due to several comments in this thread which seemed to suggest it was causing some issues with things.

[Tahrbaby]

. Some here LIKE Grub2; me, I can't stand the thing.......
Mike.

Agreed Mike.I find it so difficult to understand or edit compared to Grub4dos.

[Clarity]

... But I stopped short of installing grub2config to the internal SSD due to several comments in this thread which seemed to suggest it was causing some issues with things.

I dont think their problems match your environment.

I think the utility is solid on your system. As such it should be worry-free and you'll get a lot of mileage out of it. @shinobar , its creator, did some intensive investigations before coming up with this grub2config "gem".

[BarryK]

Does that mean Limine also would not boot Mint on the old P4 computer?
If so, very curious to know why. If you want to investigate that further, I have posted in this Limine thread, to invite ongoing development:

viewtopic.php?p=73609#p73609

The problem I have is,I'm unable to install Limine to this P4 computer.
When I run Limine from the installed .pets it states the computer has UEFI and requires changing in bios but when I go into bios there is no UEFI,it doesn't support it.
From what I read it did say that Limine can be installed to older bios machines but maybe Im reading it wrong?

That is a bug in Limine Installer. Uninstall the PET.

Instead get the latest Limine Installer from link provided in above URL.

Alternatively, you don't need to use the Limine Installer, limine can be installed manually. The Limine github page has docs:

https://github.com/limine-bootloader/limine

Arch Linux wiki also; see link in URL my previous post.

[Tahrbaby]

Does that mean Limine also would not boot Mint on the old P4 computer?
If so, very curious to know why. If you want to investigate that further, I have posted in this Limine thread, to invite ongoing development:

viewtopic.php?p=73609#p73609

The problem I have is,I'm unable to install Limine to this P4 computer.
When I run Limine from the installed .pets it states the computer has UEFI and requires changing in bios but when I go into bios there is no UEFI,it doesn't support it.
From what I read it did say that Limine can be installed to older bios machines but maybe Im reading it wrong?

That is a bug in Limine Installer. Uninstall the PET.

Instead get the latest Limine Installer from link provided in above URL.

Alternatively, you don't need to use the Limine Installer, limine can be installed manually. The Limine github page has docs:

https://github.com/limine-bootloader/limine

Arch Linux wiki also; see link in URL my previous post.

Hi Barry
Sorry,slightly confused.
I uninstalled the Limine installer pet but I cant find any alternative to the 1.3.pet from the URL's?

[BarryK]

The problem I have is,I'm unable to install Limine to this P4 computer.
When I run Limine from the installed .pets it states the computer has UEFI and requires changing in bios but when I go into bios there is no UEFI,it doesn't support it.
From what I read it did say that Limine can be installed to older bios machines but maybe Im reading it wrong?

That is a bug in Limine Installer. Uninstall the PET.

Instead get the latest Limine Installer from link provided in above URL.

Alternatively, you don't need to use the Limine Installer, limine can be installed manually. The Limine github page has docs:

https://github.com/limine-bootloader/limine

Arch Linux wiki also; see link in URL my previous post.

Hi Barry
Sorry,slightly confused.
I uninstalled the Limine installer pet but I cant find any alternative to the 3.13.pet from the URL's?

I posted a tarball on Oct 3, don't think any changes since then. You would have to expand the tarball and do a manual install:

viewtopic.php?p=68474#p68474

The latest Limine Installer is on github, as individual scripts, not as a PET:

https://github.com/bkauler/woofq/tree/m ... -installer

...but don't think anything has changed since Oct 3.

[Tahrbaby]

... But I stopped short of installing grub2config to the internal SSD due to several comments in this thread which seemed to suggest it was causing some issues with things.

I dont think their problems match your environment.

I think the utility is solid on your system. As such it should be worry-free and you'll get a lot of mileage out of it. @shinobar , its creator, did some intensive investigations before coming up with this grub2config "gem".

Thanks Clarity
Was rather hoping someone may say that,and it does seem to be an extra easy alternative to the Grub4dos I was used to.
I also know Shinobar does sterling work

[Tahrbaby]

That is a bug in Limine Installer. Uninstall the PET.

Instead get the latest Limine Installer from link provided in above URL.

Alternatively, you don't need to use the Limine Installer, limine can be installed manually. The Limine github page has docs:

https://github.com/limine-bootloader/limine

Arch Linux wiki also; see link in URL my previous post.

Hi Barry
Sorry,slightly confused.
I uninstalled the Limine installer pet but I cant find any alternative to the 3.13.pet from the URL's?

I posted a tarball on Oct 3, don't think any changes since then. You would have to expand the tarball and do a manual install:

viewtopic.php?p=68474#p68474

The latest Limine Installer is on github, as individual scripts, not as a PET:

https://github.com/bkauler/woofq/tree/m ... -installer

...but don't think anything has changed since Oct 3.

Thanks Barry

Bit above my level that so will have to wait and see if any kind soul can build an alterative installer .pet

[fredx181]

(You'll find with any question like this, you're going to get a whole slew of biased opinions, depending on individual user's personal preferences. Some here LIKE Grub2; me, I can't stand the thing.......I feel it's overly-bloated for what it actually does. In the long run, the best course of action will always be to try out several, find one that works for you.....and stick with it. Which kinda goes without saying, really.)

True that GRUB2 is very complex, tons of options.
But you can use it in a very simple way too, very similar to grub4dos;
For example this simple stanza for grub4dos (frugal install in folder "pup") (in menu.lst):

Code: Select all

title Puppy
find --set-root --ignore-floppies /pup/initrd.gz
kernel /pup/vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash psubdir=pup pfix=fsck,copy
initrd /pup/initrd.gz

Converted to GRUB2 stanza (in grub.cfg):

Code: Select all

menuentry "Puppy" {
insmod part_msdos 
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --set=root --file /pup/initrd.gz
linux /pup/vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash psubdir=pup pfix=fsck,copy  
initrd /pup/initrd.gz
}

Compare the two, to see the slightly different syntax, it's easy to learn IMO.
Just examples above, there are of course many options to "set root", e.g. by label or uuid .

[amethyst]

@fredx181
Never used Grub2 but that looks simple enough. Just the insmod entries are unfamiliar to me. Is it always the same for those two entries as shown in your example and what does it mean?

[geo_c]

Just examples above, there are of course many options to "set root", e.g. by label or uuid .

At one point in time, maybe 6 months ago I was setting up a USB UEFI hard drive. I believe what I did was install the grub2 pet in fossapup. The thing was I couldn't find a menu entry for it, and I had no idea how to run it.

Now when I install KLV-airedale using grub4dos in fossapup, I use stanzas that set root using UUID and it works.

So does that mean I'm unwittingly using grub2 somehow?

Code: Select all

title Linux KLV-airedale20-2 (sda1/KLV-airedale20-2)
  find --set-root uuid () a230772e-1e96-4041-8d05-c597cde60d1c
  kernel /KLV-airedale20-2/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=a230772e-1e96-4041-8d05-c597cde60d1c=/KLV-airedale20-2 net.ifnames=0
  initrd /KLV-airedale20-2/initrd.gz

edit: thinking through that scenario, I'd have to say I'm not using grub2config because there are no grub boot folders or anything involved, and the boot screen is grub4dos. I've used grub2config I believe when running SG2D usb stick. But grub was setup already in the image I downloaded.

[fredx181]

... Just the insmod entries are unfamiliar to me. Is it always the same for those two entries as shown in your example and what does it mean?

Not really sure, but I think it's for to support FAT32 and also Linux filesystem.

[rockedge]

I have been experimenting with Grub2config running and working in KLV-Airedale. So far I can get it see the drives/partitions but it can not identify fs_type to actually install the boot loader. Anybody familiar with the code?

[Clarity]

edit: ... I've used grub2config I believe when running SG2D usb stick. But grub was setup already in the image I downloaded.

Not exactly sure of what you are viewing, but SG2D has nothing to do with PUPs, DOGs, or Grub2config.

As far as I know, its author merely used the Worldwide product supported by manufacturers (GRUB2) to afford the ability to merely launch ISO files. ONce launched, the distro, itself, manages the hardware with its own boot manager, MENU, and operational aspects. In almost every case, the booting PUP ignores or has NO knowledge that SG2D had launched it from any of its operational aspect.

SG2D is merely an ISO file list and launch service to the user. It also list the other OSes it finds installed on any system it is booted on. It changes nothing for/on-behalf of the ISO files or booting distros or the OSes it is told to launch.

The following statement is OUTSIDE of the scope of this thread. Its about an overlooked feature of GRUB2 by many.

• GRUB2's foundational aspect is a terminal environment with many Linux commands useful in its console as well as a command level ability to do what is seen in the lines we see in a PUP's menu.

• As shared by @fredx181 GRUB2 can be as simple as using its menu stanza same as is done in other boot managers (grub4dos, lilo, extlinus, syslinux, etc). OR one can lift the hood to the console and do whatever one wants.

• It really is simple...only complex to those who find it different overlooking the very fact that a stanza is a stanza. Unfamiliarity is always scary in our human existence. Like language when we land in a foreign nation with a different native tongue to the familiar one(s) we use.

Thus, in the case of @shinobar's Grub2config, he provides us, it intends to make it easy to transition for those who see this pathway. it has taken awhile for this to catch-on in this community.. I see value in it being included in the base of WoofCE PUPs, but that is up to the developers and their distros. But, I do understand that their reluctance might be because of a fear of some negative reactions. Yet, I know this fear will diminish over time.

[geo_c]

edit: ... I've used grub2config I believe when running SG2D usb stick. But grub was setup already in the image I downloaded.

Not exactly sure of what you are viewing, but SG2D has nothing to do with PUPs, DOGs, or Grub2config.

Thus, in the case of @shinobar's Grub2config, he provides us, it intends to make it easy to transition for those who see this pathway. it has taken awhile for this to catch-on in this community..

Thanks, that clears it up. You're saying grub2config is a puppy utility for the implemtation of grub2 and isn't a function of grub2 itself.

[Governor]

@geo_c @Clarity

I can't get the Grub2config to work because I have problems with my drives.

My internal drive is apparently hosting the system files (even though I am booting from a CD), so I guess that is why it is locked.
How can I save files or settings to a locked drive?

The other drive is a USB hard disk which I do not want to boot from, but why is it locked?

Thanks!

[geo_c]

@geo_c @Clarity

I can't get the Grub2config to work because I have problems with my drives.

My internal drive is apparently hosting the system files (even though I am booting from a CD), so I guess that is why it is locked.

If your settings are being saved to pupsaves on the nvme drive, which we established in another thread by running PupSys-info, then that drive isn't locked. And it's not showing in pmount as locked either. What you said before is that grub4dos reports "no useable file systems found" or something to that effect. I have no explanation for that, except for the possibility that you might booted into a savefile on that drive and grub4dos can't see the overall filesystem (I don't think that is normally an issue though.) That's why I have suggested trying to boot from the CD using option "0" so that no savefile is involved.

How can I save files or settings to a locked drive?
The other drive is a USB hard disk which I do not want to boot from, but why is it locked?

I don't know, anyone else know? Why could his USB hard drive be locked if it isn't a system drive?

[TerryH]

@geo_c @Clarity

I can't get the Grub2config to work because I have problems with my drives.

My internal drive is apparently hosting the system files (even though I am booting from a CD), so I guess that is why it is locked.
How can I save files or settings to a locked drive?

The other drive is a USB hard disk which I do not want to boot from, but why is it locked?

Thanks!

This image shows that it is the partition containing your puppy files. This is indicated by the small puppy image to the right of the partition name(nvvme0n1p1). The partition is locked, this is so you can't unmount it. It is definitely mounted.

As for the grub/grub2 configuration programs, I've never used either, I use grub2 which i have manually setup. Grub2config will be looking for a fat32 partition, which I believe should be the first partition on a drive. As you only have the ext4 partition, that is why it returns that a valid partition is not found.

So, if you want to boot only using the internal nvme drive you will probably have to start again, create a fat32 partition as the first partition on the internal drive. The fat32 partition only needs to be small a few MB is sufficient. Generally advice given is to create a partition of 100MB. This partition requires the 'boot' and 'esp' flags to be set.

Otherwise, you will have to create a USB boot drive only, so again a fat32 partition with 'boot' and 'esp' flags set. This you would then point to the puppy files you have on the internal partition.

Just wondering why you have the small 9 GB ext4 partition at the end. Seems a waste as it is. Were you intending it to be a swap partition? Possibly have and additional partition for data other than puppy files. This can be useful if you want to start with a fresh puppy install.

[Governor]

@TerryH
I read several times that ext4 partitions were best for Linux, and that is the reason I did that. I read that a swap file is a good idea in case the OS runs out of memory and that is why I made the little partition, but I doubt anything is set up correctly. I can do it all over again, I just want it to work.

I need to be able to work on various FAT32 (possibly NTFS) USB drives. I realize now that the way Puppy works is not the traditional MSDOS or Windows way and maybe I don't even need a dedicated Linux partition, but I am just guessing here.

I am tired of using so much time and effort trying to get an acceptable OS and I likely would have given up by now if I hadn't erased my Windows partitions. I appreciate all the good people offering to help and I know much more now than when I began, but unfortunately, I still haven't gotten off the ground.

What I find really frustrating (just a few examples):

• Not being able to do a simple file search is killing me. Today I tried to upload a file using Firefox and the GUI that opened via Firefox was seemingly absent of any search or configuration possibilities. I used 5 minutes looking for a file I know I have, but was unable to find.

• On boot, some of my settings return and a few do not. I have screen problems every single time I boot up. Even after getting an acceptable desktop where everything is visible and the horizontal refresh is high enough to avoid eyestrain, everything on the screen is slightly stretched horizontally and all images are a little distorted. Sometimes the monitor goes black, and I then open the laptop but that screen is black because I had to turn it off in order to get the monitor to a workable state to begin with, and then I have no choice but to reboot

• Sometimes the mouse just stops working. At that point it is [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[Backspace].

• Drives I wish to work on are locked and I can't edit or save files.

• When I make a new boot thumb drive, none of my configuration settings are included.

• When downloading files, it takes a long time to find out where to download them to, and sometimes I can't find them again, or it takes a long time to find them. There must be a way to make shortcuts, or generate a list of recent/often used directory locations, but I have not found it

• I got Audacity to work, but then it said it could not save the file I was working on to a FAT partition.

[TerryH]

@TerryH
I read several times that ext4 partitions were best for Linux, and that is the reason I did that. I read that a swap file is a good idea in case the OS runs out of memory and that is why I made the little partition, but I doubt anything is set up correctly. I can do it all over again, I just want it to work.

The little partition is not created as a swap partition, you need to convert it to 'Linux swap' using gparted.

I need to be able to work on various FAT32 (possibly NTFS) USB drives. I realize now that the way Puppy works is not the traditional MSDOS or Windows way and maybe I don't even need a dedicated Linux partition, but I am just guessing here.

You can use fat32/NTFS, however as you have removed Windows, linux file system types give you greater flexibility, i.e. using a save folder than a save file.

I am tired of using so much time and effort trying to get an acceptable OS and I likely would have given up by now if I hadn't erased my Windows partitions. I appreciate all the good people offering to help and I know much more now than when I began, but unfortunately, I still haven't gotten off the ground.

Just hang in there.

What I find really frustrating (just a few examples):

• Not being able to do a simple file search is killing me. Today I tried to upload a file using Firefox and the GUI that opened via Firefox was seemingly absent of any search or configuration possibilities. I used 5 minutes looking for a file I know I have, but was unable to find.

At least 2 people have previously advise that puppy has a builtin file search pfind. Menu > File System > pfind.
Or you can just type pfind in a terminal and pfind will be executed.

• On boot, some of my settings return and a few do not. I have screen problems every single time I boot up. Even after getting an acceptable desktop where everything is visible and the horizontal refresh is high enough to avoid eyestrain, everything on the screen is slightly stretched horizontally and all images are a little distorted. Sometimes the monitor goes black, and I then open the laptop but that screen is black because I had to turn it off in order to get the monitor to a workable state to begin with, and then I have no choice but to reboot

I can't offer advice on this, I have no experience using an external monitor with a laptop. Maybe getting the setup on the laptop right, then reintroduce the external monitor.

• Sometimes the mouse just stops working. At that point it is [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[Backspace].

Sorry, I can't offer assistance.

• Drives I wish to work on are locked and I can't edit or save files.

Do yourself a favour and stop using the USB drive that is locked. It's making your issues harder to solve.

• When I make a new boot thumb drive, none of my configuration settings are included.

A boot drive is to boot, it won't contain your installation settings, that is what you create a save for.

• When downloading files, it takes a long time to find out where to download them to, and sometimes I can't find them again, or it takes a long time to find them. There must be a way to make shortcuts, or generate a list of recent/often used directory locations, but I have not found it

If you are downloading with a web browser, the settings of the web browser should indicate the folder which you download to. If the browser is being run as root, the downloads would probably be located in /root/downloads
Running the browser as spot(unprivileged user) downloads would be in /home/spot/downloads.
also as mentioned above, use pfind to assist locating files.

• I got Audacity to work, but then it said it could not save the file I was working on to a FAT partition.

As mentioned earlier, I think that locked USB drive is an issue.

[greengeek]

I have been experimenting with Grub2config running and working in KLV-Airedale. So far I can get it see the drives/partitions but it can not identify fs_type to actually install the boot loader. Anybody familiar with the code?

Is there anything unusual about fs_type in your installation? Does Gparted accurately show what you have?