KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

mikewalsh wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:25 pm

@Clarity / @wiak :-
so
So far as I'm aware, a save-file will run from almost any storage, regardless of format.....because of the "internal" Linux file-system.

Yes, the tricky bit is to make sure it uses a read-writable format (e.g. squashfs won't 'easily' do for save purpose since read-only unless unsquashed and then squashed again later), but ALSO to mount the savefile you first have to mount the partition it is in and you have to make sure you have mechanism to mount that containing partition as read-write also - that can be difficult (for example, for ntfs partition, older Linux kernel itself could only mount ntfs partition read-only (unless external ntfs-3g driver and its dependencies was available) so savefile at top layer was therefore itself only read-only (so couldn't save to it...).

But now that kernel contains ntfs3 inbuilt driver we no longer need ntfs-3g available to the initramfs, so matters have improved greatly. In new KLV, I am using that ntfs3 to mount the containing partition and thus the ext4 (or whatever) savefile also ends up in required read-write condition.

During recent initial experiments, things went wrong, because I had made a simple coding error (without noticing it) and as a result I thought busybox mount wasn't working with ntfs3, but fortunately a comment from mistfire made me check that again to find that was not the issue, and then I found my own simple mistake quickly thereafter... A wrong fact, belief, or simple experimental error can sometimes prevent a development occurring! Very simple to add savefile support in the end actually - complexity just comes from initrd/init logic being pretty complex to deal with the huge number of flexible arrangement the initrd/init used here can provide - tricky simply because one simple code mistake in initrd/init can result in dreaded kernel crash or similar on boot!... It is difficult to be as perfect, coding-wise, as computer sometimes demands... one quote or comma or bracket out of place and BANG, and can be difficult to debug in such circumstances when nothing is going! Debug is actually easier with KLV than most distros since much of the boot initrd work is actually done in external to cpio-compressed initrd inside the simple text file w_init; that file is making my dev work on WDL initrd much much easier than continually having to uncompress the cpio-initrd-archive and so on.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by Clarity »

+1 @mikewalsh

I have on extremely rare occasions ever saved to a save-file.

I have always used save-folders for all uses, except @FATDOG distros where I use its multimedia means. It afford me the ability to discard any specific session I find faulty. Even those FATDOG sessions are saved in my house-keeping folder "/Sessions" on a system's drive.

I NEVER USB!!!...for some very obvious reasons.

My current item raised is my curiosity of any remaining drawbacks that would exist for having PUP session's save-folders saved to NTFS partition; as, Does the kernel NTFS support overcome any of the prior concerns for NOT providing save-folder support to NTFS?

If the current Kernel support overcomes any past concerns, we may benefit in that ability. Then, any 'converts' coming here from a Windows environment "could" have save-file & save-folder to NTFS in the same way that save-file & save-folder is provided for Linux filesystems (EXT2/EXT3/EXT4). One less modification that a Win machine user would need to make to take the advantage that save-folder provides over save-file.

Linux has been maturing for 20 years, this year.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

Clarity wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:00 am

Does the kernel NTFS support overcome any of the prior concerns for NOT providing save-folder support to NTFS?

I doubt this because of symlinks, but I don't know. Whilst ntfs is said to support symlinks since Vista, these are probably not Linux-style symlinks and we are talking about save folders for Linux and with Linux-style symlinks in them. Easy enough to try it (with the new initrd, though I haven't yet) - would just use default w_changes and see if upper_changes folder worked correctly on ntfs (after creating a few files and symlinks to test it) - I'll report my finding later. Might be other issues than symlinks that I don't know about though.

I now have my savefile all working from new WDL initrd media, RAM0,1 and 2 w_changes modes okay to ntfs or vfat partition. One issue is with RAM2, the save2flash script will need modified slightly since:

Code: Select all

if [ "$(mount | grep /mnt/layers/uc_ro | grep /dev/)" ]; then

won't detect that uc_ro is in fact mounted correctly when savefile mechanism I'm employing is used. I tried to keep compatibility but that is one place I can't. However, note to myself at least, the following certainly works (though I'll leave fredx to determine what the second grep is needed for anyway):

Code: Select all

if [ "$(mount | grep /mnt/layers/uc_ro | grep rw)" ]; then

Of course you need the new WDL initrd (ver 6.0.0) to try it. All going, but final tidying up and last minute tests to do. Lots of code alterations were done to adjust the w_changes logic appropriately so bugs might have been introduced. Time will tell.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by bigpup »

It is my understanding, that a save folder, will not work on fat, ntfs, or any non Linux format (which is a file system).
The reason is, the file system (which a format is) is not a Linux file system.
What is in the save folder, is a Linux file system layout, that will easily layer into the operating file system.
This file system, in the folder, is directly controlled by the format (file system).

The save file will work on any format (file system), because it has a full Linux file system, inside of it.
Think of it as a Linux file system inside a file.

The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

Yes, but it was a valid question as to why a save folder won't work. Certainly there is no issue every mounting or using any Linux filesystem, be that as a read-only squashfs or a read/write ext4 or similar formatted image file. However, since my above post I double checked if symlinks were an issue with ntfs - didn't seem to be - the ntfs filesystem (used from Linux distro) allowed creation of symlinks though it was just a simple test. My suspicion is the issue will be that ntfs doesn't maybe support the concept of inodes (or does so differently) and one consequence of that might be that neither aufs nor overlayfs will merge correctly. When I tried with savefolder on ntfs filesystem, the boot did get quite far but then crashed out with errors and a final login prompt (but password didn't get me in). I have no knowledge as to underlying reason other than my suspicion about inode workings, but was worth a try despite us all knowing that savefiles can be used if the initrd supports them. Ntfs certainly didn't work with save folders though.

By the way, I wouldn't suggest trying such experiment yourself - very risky - you never know what unforeseen results you might cause to your ntfs formatted partition... I suspect I will have to clean mine up now. Result for now is that you shouldn't try and use save FOLDER with ntfs partition, save FILE should be fine

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by fredx181 »

Not sure, but isn't the problem with ntfs that file permissions are not preserved ?

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

fredx181 wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:18 pm

Not sure, but isn't the problem with ntfs that file permissions are not preserved ?

Yes, I've read that before too. But in my quick (dangerous I feel) test, overlayfs itself didn't seem to like my using an ntfs filesystem in one of the layers (the top rw one). I really think must be other inode-type issues that overlayfs (and likely aufs) don't appreciate. I tried turning xino=on (in kernel docs about overlayfs), but I have no idea what if anything that would do to help - it didn't. Of course it could all come down to permissions handling indeed.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by Clarity »

In my sketchy research/review of the old forum, seems the idea of past NTFS concerns were

  • permissions (security in nfs terms)

  • links (shadows in ntfs terms)

  • corrumptions (requiring MS utils to resolve)

It is here that we should consider if NTFS in Linux kernel addresses these concerns.

Knowing Tovalds as we do, I AM CERTAIN, that these were topics on his list when deciding that the time is right to add this NTFS support into Linux.

Given things as we know them, curiosity has set in wondering if these 3 concerns no longer are an issue in the way NTFS is built into LInux. That said, iff

  1. the security is consistent,

  2. and the links are consistent,

  3. and Linux does NOT introduce corruption

then is NTFS, now, acceptable for the Puppy model for save-folders. (I use "consistent", here, meaning 'matching')

NTFS is 35 years old, thusly, this is NOT a new FS technology. (this has NOTHING to do with the above statements)

P.S. Should this topic be moved to the open forum somewhere. It is NOT my intention to focus this subtopic in KLV. It does have applicability to all Linux PUPs which use the PUP's session model.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by rockedge »

Perhaps there is a tip on why Thunar will not remember connection details when using network connection features?

Thunar see or can be directed to LAN SAMBA shares but can't "save" the password(s), no matter what is selected.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by williams2 »

ntfs-3g seems to be stable and reliable.
So ntfs3 should be able to become stable too, if it isn't already.

symlinks in a Linux file system (ext, tmpfs) to any target on any file system, including fat/vfat/ntfs work, of course.

ntfs-3g seems to support symlinks (soft symlinks, anyway.)
ntfs has it's own kind of symlinks, and AFAIK, ntfs-3g seems to support the ntfs native links.

ntfs-3g does allow file names with characters that MS Windows does not like at all.
For example, Linux is quite happy with file names with the colon character.
MS Windows does not like colons, at all.
chkdsk.exe will move such files to found001
AFAIK, ntfs-3g has an option to refuse to allow file name characters that MS Windows does not like.

Linux has limited ability to repair corrupted ntfs file systems.
ntfs really should not be used as if it is a Linux file system.
ntfs-3g has limited (or non-existent) ability to repair and to defrag ntfs file systems.

For example, puppy_bionicpup64_8.0.sfs has 488 files with at least 1 colon character in the file name:

Code: Select all

# find /initrd/pup_ro2/ | grep ':'
/initrd/pup_ro2/usr/share/usb_modeswitch/6000:1000
/initrd/pup_ro2/usr/share/usb_modeswitch/8888:6500
/initrd/pup_ro2/usr/share/usb_modeswitch/ed09:1021
# find /initrd/pup_ro2/ | grep ':' | wc
    488     488   25102
# 
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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

By the way, the little 'experiment' I did with Clarity's comments in mind when booting from ntfs and seeing effect of using a save 'folder' rather than savefile, did indeed cause a serious issue with underlying ntfs partition that my Windows install relies on. I thought so, because I noticed a file that was on the directory had 'vanished' and I was pretty sure I hadn't deleted it myself. No idea why, but turned out I needed to start Windows 10 and use chkdisk utility to 'repair' the filesystem (it had become read-only as a side effect, so in Linux neither ntfs-3g nor ntfs3 allowed me write access to it till after that chkdisk operation, which took a good hour to complete...). i.e. be warned not to meddle tooooooo... much with ntfs.... when using overlays.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

@rockedge

Despite that 00modules approach having been quite useful allowing older Puppy aufs-only-builtin huge kernel+modules to temporarily load overlayfs module into the initrd, without having to actually copy it in there, the facility does have some serious drawbacks. If, as you say, your KLV kernels now come with overlayfs built in then there is no need to use that old 'trick' and I plan to retire it with a view that most kernels should be getting compiled here nowadays with overlayfs buillt in support.

The disadvantage is that the 'load trick' results in /usr/lib/modules being a read-only directory when sfs file used for 00modulesXXX.sfs. That is not the case when using an uncompressed directory. And that read-only situation can have odd side-effects at some other times - I can't remember the details but I have had issues because of it. On the other hand loading the sfs modules and firmware as normal overlayfs layers has no such ill-effect. I only used the trick for kernels that needed quick immediate access to that external overlayfs module, but totally no need once built into the kernel.

Great thing is I can take that mechanism out of the initrd/init itself since it is actually done inside the w_init, and then the same method can still be optionally used by simply making available a custom w_init, which keeps that trick active (since the external to initrd version of w_init takes precedence). Weedogit installed upstream distros pretty much never employ that mechanism anyway since their kernels are not usually huge kernels so weedogit.sh script has not choice but to manually copy the main disk-media-access modules (as well as any overlayfs module) into the initrd itself prior to re-cpio-ing it again.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

Changed my approach to the 00modules matter - I plan to leave it in as an option for legacy Pup kernel/modules. Will just require a grub kernel line activate argument.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by rockedge »

@wiak I agree with leaving the 00mod as a legacy option enabled on the kernel command line

A good idea for sure.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

New initrd-latest.gz uploaded. It is version="6.0.0"; revision="-rc1" Date: 28 Aug 2022

This is first revision to WDL initrd for around 5 months, which is testament to its stability - hope this one proves same stability - should do, the alterations mainly only really to do with savefile use.
Please test and use this one in any future KLV-Airedale releases (all going well that is...)

Previous get_WDLskelinitrd_latest.sh script should fetch that latest skeleton initrd.gz.
The 'get' script is in usual place here: https://weedoglinux.rockedge.org/viewto ... p=355#p355
(I usually find link addresses like that via the WeeDog - HowTo - Cheatsheet).

Tested all main modes with underlying ext4, ntfs, and vfat partitions (a few crazy flexible options not tested, but hopefully fine)

Tested with KLV installed onto vfat usbstick with savefile (of type ext4) called upper_changes.ucimg, and similar installs onto ext4 and ntfs partitions.

Whether savefile gets used or not depends on simple logic:

1. If WDL initrd finds savefile (w_init looks for extension .ucimg) it presumes you want to use it, so that savefile is used rather than any savefolder present (no matter the underlying filesystem type).
You can disable the savefile and let savefolder take precedence, therefore, simply by changing its extension (when I want to disable savefile I just make extension .ucimgD, but whatever...).
2. If booting KLV from vfat or a ntfs partition, RAM0 (no persistence mode) works whether you have a savefile or not.
3. On vfat or ntfs, if savefile present then all of w_changes direct to media, RAM0, RAM1, and RAM2 work (save2flash to the savefile works fine out-of-the-box).
4. On vat or ntfs if savefile not present and you tell grub2 you want to use w_changes direct to media, or RAM1 or RAM2 modes, WDL initrd warns you that is not possible on these format types and boots you into RAM0 mode instead.
5. Of course, if no savefile present then WDL initrd will work as before if booted from any Linux formatted partition, but as I said gives you RAM0 mode if booting from vfat or ntfs.

All seems to be going well. So to test, all you will need is to make an empty savefile with extension .ucimg in bootfrom directory (extension is important here for the WDL initrd search) using the likes of below command (can use different bs= if you wish and count size to whatever end size you want):

Code: Select all

dd if=/dev/zero of=upper_changes.ucimg bs=4096 count=16384 2>&1
mkfs.ext4 -q -m 0 upper_changes.ucimg

NOTE WELL:

This initrd only needed a little bit extra code but its an initrd so easy for me to break it! Needs testing - there could well be introduced bugs, but all good in testing for me thus far. Please report any issues...

If you continue to also provide an external w_init (which is good to do), please make sure it is the new version. Just check that external w_init in editor for its version number up the top, should be: version="6.0.0"; revision="-rc1" Date: 28 Aug 2022

Since KLV-airedale includes overlayfs driver in its supplied kernel, new builds of KLV do not use the original load modules 'trick'. You still put the modules under 00modules sfs name, but you need to rearrange the sfs contents slightly: the structure inside needs the modules under /usr/lib/modules rather than previous used /lib/modules. Firmware sfs was already in correct /usr/lib/firmware hierarchy so fine already.

I have also kept the legacy method, but that is not preferred since has side-effect of leaving final modules directory read-only after the switch root. The new method fixes that. If however you are ever using old method you can trigger the code that handles that by including grub kernel line argument w_00modules=lib (or w_00modules=usrlib if your sfs set up in that hierarchy instead). However I do not advise using that legacy method (not only the read-only result but also now needs that extra grub kernel line argument). That kernel line argument is not needed at all with the new method at all so best not to use legacy method now.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by Clarity »

Looking forward to testing the next ISO file with the latest initrd v6.0-rc1

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by rockedge »

Testing initrd v6.0-rc1 in an existing KLV-Airedale-beta17 setup with modified 00modules SFS that has both /lib/modules and /usr/lib/modules built in.

So far all testing runs are successful.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

The following linked post by mistfire, which says that Pupmode 13 type save (like RAM2) could include deleting contents of the the RAM-held upper_changes, after a save2flash procedure, if followed by a mount remount command would be extremely important (since allows freeing up potentially a great deal of RAM) would be a fantastic and useful discovery. Unfortunately, I have not been able to confirm it can be done (and failed in experiments of my own long time back to do same clearing of RAM). Yes, I know it works with aufs (and Puppy uses that flush RAM mechanism), but never seen it successfully acheived with overlayfs... I'm hoping mistfire is correct and can demonstrate exactly how he manages it. His current explanation, when tried by myself (according to my understanding of it), didn't work for me:

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 016#p66016

Of course we can make new overlayfs layers involving previous ones (i.e. nested) with overlayfs, which I've documented longtime back (Apr 2019 post) and talked about the other day since worth experimenting further to see what can be achieved with that (idea being to somehow move root to new overlay hierarchy thus created after nesting - some kind of pivot root). Re: loading sfs on full installed distro - gives link to original Apr 2019 details on howto (though can also be done this way via overlayfs on frugal installed distro):

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 985#p65985

That new nested filesystem is something I already planned to experiment further with (after all these years from my original experiments with it) but mistfire's claim is much simpler to do right away so hopefully he can explain exactly how he achieves it.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by rockedge »

@wiak
I started getting warnings in the get_WDLskelinitrd_latest.sh script about the http: links in the script! Owncloud complained and converted the wget to https:. So I changed the wget statements in the get script.

changed script ->

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
# Creation Date: 20Jun2020; Revision Date: 14Mar2022
# Copyright wiak (William McEwan) 20Jun2020+; Licence MIT (aka X11 license)
# revision rockedge (Erik Schoepplenberg) 05Sep2022

progname="get_WDLskelinitrd.sh"; version="504"; revision="-rc2"
resource=${progname#get_}; resource=${resource%.sh}

case "$1" in
	'--help'|'-h'|'-?') printf "Simply execute this script with command:
./${progname}
to download $resource
to the current directory\n"; exit 0;;
	'--version') printf "$progname ${version}${revision}\n"; exit 0;;
esac

printf "\nPress Enter to download $resource\nor press Ctrl-C to abort download\n" 
read  # Stop here until the Enter key is pressed or Ctrl-C to abort
wget -c https://owncloud.rockedge.org/index.php/s/HRZhsnouSm3Gpf3/download -O modify_initrd_gz.sh && chmod +x modify_initrd_gz.sh
wget -c https://owncloud.rockedge.org/index.php/s/CXixDo8Dd2rtxSQ/download -O initrd-latest.gz
wget -c https://owncloud.rockedge.org/index.php/s/8aFjxy5QrjfyI8o/download -O w_init-latest

exit 0

Works again smoothly! KLV-Airedale-beta19 will have the v 6.0.0 initrd

Further tools for savefile creation and management will need to be incorporated into the KLV-Airedale design to open up vfat and NTFS formatted partitions to offer expanded system persistence options.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

Ah, ok, I'll change to https. I made it http in tests because earlier the owncloud setup wasn't accepting my https attempts. Maybe it was just a certificate blip at the time I made it.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by rockedge »

Ready for download is KLV-Airedale-beta19 in the usual place -> https://rockedge.org/kernels

With more information and a direct download link in the first post.

This KLV-Airedale-beta19 is equipped with @wiak 's new version initrd v6.0-rc1 to supply the initrd.gz
The kernel's 00Module SFS file structure has been modified by moving /lib/modules to /usr/lib/modules

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

rockedge wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 3:07 am

Ready for download is KLV-Airedale-beta19 in the usual place -> https://rockedge.org/kernels

With more information and a direct download link in the first post.

This KLV-Airedale-beta19 is equipped with @wiak 's new version initrd v6.0-rc1 to supply the initrd.gz
The kernel's 00Module SFS file structure has been modified by moving /lib/modules to /usr/lib/modules

Posting from it now and in RAM2 mode with savefile.ucimg I made before so included my connection info and all working well with save2flash. I also tried mistfire's experiment of deleting what was saved from RAM/upper_changes followed by a mount -o remount / which also working fine - that removal stuff is to do with snapmergepuppy eventually if implemented of course - rather than directly to do with WDL initrd - no hurry to see that implemented. Time will tell if mistfires QuickPup runs into trouble with that overlayfs-related detail. His overlayfs-based Puppy initrd is experimental for now, whereas most of WDL initrd is long established (except for that recent savefile support).- Come to think of it, I will now quickly edit w_init to see if a symlink works for RAM2 savefile use instead of current mount --bind. If so, and I can't see why not, I have to determine which is better - I am happy it is easy to try new mods simply by editing external text file w_init.... Quickly checked and symlink works fine for uc_ro in savefile use, but that messes up fredx181's save2flash script - I'll just leave uc_ro as a bind mount for now since all works without needing more/different code in save2flash, and just for savefile use anyway - maybe think about that again later, but I like the bind mount for its simple all still working out-of-the-box result for now.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

In beta19 KLV. I finally got round to configuring my xfce4 such that I could tile windows and thought I'd share how to do that important configuration:

Settings -> Window Manager

Select Keyboard Tab

Scroll down till you see:

Tile window to the top. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + Cursor Up (this on my laptop keyboard by the way).
Tile window to the bottom. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + Cursor Down
Tile window to the left. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + Cursor Left
Tile window to the right. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + Cursor Right
Tile window to the top-left. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + Home (on my laptop Home was via fn key-Cursor Left btw)
Tile window to the top-right. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + PgUp
Tile window to the bottom-left. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + PgDn
Tile window to the bottom-right. Select that and press Clear. Then press Edit and Press Windows Super Key + End

Finally, despite fredx181 mentioning that Whisker Menu uses a bit more RAM, frankly all most all decent XFCE distros use Whisker Menu - it is great and worth the little extra RAM.
To change you KLV to use that instead of current rubbish messy Applications Menu...
Right click on taskbar panel, and choose Panel Preferences -> Items tab, then
press the +Add button, scroll down to find Whisker Menu and Add that, and move it up to top of the list.
Then, still in Items tab, select the previous Applications Menu and press the -Remove button.
Then close Panels Preferences, save2flash if in RAM2 mode, and reboot.

You won't regret that change to Whisker Menu - it is such a relief and great to use.
And as for the new tiling functionality - how on earth did you do without it!

One complaint - screen too bright on boot. I adjust that (ah, it's brightness and tint I adjust - haven't tried the battery icon but it doesn't save my setting for reboot!!! I haven't myself yet looked into why or if can be fixed.

I'm really now thinking of adopting KLV as my main distro when not doing business-related work (when I have to use Zorin lite full install). KLV is the most efficient xfce desktop distro I've tried - and I've tried many, and whisker menu hardly effects that comment at all! I just need to see if I can get cups going with my tricky HP inkjet printer, which doesn't like most hplip versions for some reason (works fine on Arch-based distros though, such as Endeavour, but Zorin lite can't do it...).

NOTE: But there is one xfce4 plugin I highly recommend (stole this from Zorin Lite):

Code: Select all

xbps-install -Sy xfce4-docklike-plugin

Then you don't bother using that ugly wee top panel with apps on it. Just put them in xfce4-docklike-plugin on bottom panel. It is great, but I don't have time to describe how to use it - read the docs.
https://docs.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfc ... ugin/start
To be honest, I haven't figured out how to get xfce4-docklike-plugin to work in KLV yet, but its great once it is working so I'll do that tomorrow...

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by Clarity »

FYI

Whiskermenu is mentioned here in another distro on Distrowatch

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by fredx181 »

Some info about save (or not) at shutdown or on demand (save2flash) when booted wirh w_changes=RAM2
Also how to change the default to "No Save" (so waiting 10 seconds will NOT save the session then)
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 545#p66545

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by rockedge »

@fredx181 I am going to add this small change to the KLV rootfs, to have "no save" as default choice for save2flash

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by fredx181 »

rockedge wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:28 pm

@fredx181 I am going to add this small change to the KLV rootfs, to have "no save" as default choice for save2flash

So I guess you like better No Save as default, why ? (just curious).

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by rockedge »

@fredx181 I personally like "Save" as the default. But observing what other users tend to do when using w_changes=RAM2 mode it seems that in situations when using KLV with the rootfs compressed as SFS making the base KLV rootfs read-only, so using KLV for on-line banking and other sensitive data exchange scenarios not saving a session is important. And perhaps the first choice. We'll observe and look at how it is in actual use to decide on keeping it this way.

I can always change it back. I kept the original as /usr/local/bin/snap-ex-original in the rootfs.

The next goal is to get grub2config to work stable in KLV

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by Clarity »

@Shinobar's GRUB2Config ... excellent idea or something comparable built-in accessible via Menu.

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Re: KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

Post by wiak »

The attached shows xfce4-docklike-plugin in action. It is really nice because it allows lots of app icons on taskbar panel (docked) and when you hover over an icon you get preview of all windows showing how many instances of that app are open and you can click to open (one or all) or X to exit any instance. Big advantage over normal little panels, but also because opened apps do not fill up the task bar at all.

The version I am using of xfce3-docklike-panel is not the one from Void repo, but one compiled by Zorin - nice advantage is that the previews appear horizontal rather than stacked vertically one above the other - this is much more convenient and takes up less vertical real estate when in use. It is a great facility and a definite reason to make XFCE a go-to desktop choice for me. As you see I also use whisker menu (but xfce4-docklike-plugin works fine with Application Menu too) because once configured the way I like it I much much prefer it to the Application Menu alternative despite a few MB more RAM needed to run it.

I'll try to make upload a tar.gz later (or maybe xbps package) so you can try that zorin version of xfce4-docklike-plugin, but may take me a while to prepare it.
EDIT: Didn't make tar.gz, but instead attached tgz of zorin version plus my docklike.rc config file to post below: https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 592#p66592

Attached gif made with wex, which includes button to immediately use Fred's gif encoder on the captured screen video.

Bit difficult to see what I'm doing: I'm just right-clicking with the mouse, starting at firefox icon on the dock and then thunar icon followed by geany icon then terminal icon then mtpaint icon and then the gif loops.
Each time I click icon the windows for that app all open up, and on initial hover over each app icon you see a preview of how many such apps are open but temporarily hidden or minimised. (all three open but hidden terminals do pop up, but one is positioned over the top of the other so looks like just two...).

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