KLV-Airedale-beta+ Released, Ready for Download

[wiak]

(kernel modified) KLV-AIredale beta14 now successfully booting on my secure boot enabled HP Probook 430 G8 laptop from its internal nvme SSD drive via its Zorin-installed grub2, which like an official Ubuntu grub2 requires signed kernels thereafter. Boots from the Ubuntu/Zorin grub2 installed onto the internal nvme SSD - no usb stick required this time.

i.e. I'm using pristine KLV-Airedale beta14 but swapping in signed Zorin kernel, modules and fireware.

It is probably worth documenting how to do this since many users may first use the likes of Ubuntu or Zorin as their first attempt to try Linux in dual-boot configuration with Windows 10 or 11 and, thereafter, that Ubuntu-style grub2 will not boot KLV-Airedale with its supplied unsigned kernel.

Details now in WeeDog-related howto here: viewtopic.php?p=57731#p57731

NOTE: I did have the hope that:
set check_signatures=no
at grub2 boot, might be usable to stop the signature checking, but thus far I have not managed to get that to have any effect. It is described here: https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manua ... signatures
Maybe someone else will have more success with that?
Possibly the following contains some other solution, but too much involved and too little time to try: https://askubuntu.com/questions/1313033 ... bootloader
https://ruderich.org/simon/notes/secure ... and-initrd

[wiak]

The beta14 using Zorin kernel, modules and firmware going well for me on this secure boot HP laptop.

One extra thing I did was that, after pristine install and kernel swap, I unsquashed 07KLV-airedale_rootfs.sfs, deleted it, and renamed the resultant squashfs-root as upper_changes. Of course it is much bigger being unsquashed (around 1.6GB instead of 463MB I think), but has great advantage that when I then add new packages they are saved directly into that same upper_changes - that's a big advantage when doing system upgrades with xbps-install -Syu. i.e. has similar advantages as a full install but still has overlayfs for adding in extra layers. That's the special arrangement rockedge sometimes refers to as a pseudo full install - I really like it since saves having to merge parts together for a remaster - just using the system IS the remaster in this arrangement... and could squash the upper_changes up anytime if wanted though I prefer to leave it uncompressed in that pseudo full install arrangement since disk storage space is cheap anyway and system probably a bit more responsive that way too.

As I said, I'm also using an unsquashed 01firmware/ and 02modules/ directory arrangement, so easy to simply copy new firmware and modules into these since just normal directories rather than read-only sfs files; that's a major advantage of this system which allows use of either sfs files or normal directories as layers, or a mix of both when suits.

[wiak]

I'm a big fan of Osmo. But, if I recall correctly, it didn't run OOTB under some recent 'Puppy-Variants': Weedoged?

Download (not sure if libgringotts is needed but I think so...):
osmo xbps package for Void Linux (KLV-Airedale64) at https://owncloud.rockedge.org/index.php ... V9vjQe8pMS
libgringotts xbps package for Void Linux (KLV-Airedale64)- at https://owncloud.rockedge.org/index.php ... ujxZqJgbNN

DISCLAIMER: I have no idea if these are correct/fit-for-purpose but worked for me. Use at own risk, but should be fine.

I partially learned a new skill today but haven't documented anything in my cherrytree brain yet so this is just a preview 'proof' of me succeeding to create xbps app using Void's xbps-src system recipe. Actually I don't know how I managed but manage I did... Did all of the following on KLV-Airedale64 beta14 albeit with my Zorin kernel, modules, firmware alteration (but the steps will work on normal KLV-Airedale too of course: ok, so this is no HowTo).

If I ever get my act together, I'll post details, but goodness knows when - I have a ton of things I'm supposed to be attending to right now that have nothing to do with forum matters.

Rainlender2 may be great or better of course - I haven't tried it or checked its package size: viewtopic.php?p=57890#p57890

My Osmo works, but seems to be a bit imperfect. The Contacts GUI is off the side of the window when I now check it. This is GTK+3 compiled version of Osmo. Just noticed I compiled 0.4.2, but there is a 0.4.4 apparently available - I'll try a second xbps-src 'compile' now... (easier said than immediately done... I need to calculate new SHA256 checksum for the osmo upstream src package first and put that in the xbps-src 'recipe' (template) ... Oh well, later...

EDIT: so I downloaded the main osmo 0.4.4 source file from https://sourceforge.net/projects/osmo-pim/ and did a sha256sum on it and put that in the xbps-src template for osmo and re-ran the 'xbps-src pkg osmo' command to compile that latest version. Amazingly worked so now have that running, but not bothering to take new screenshot. Still have same gui problem with 'Contacts' though... sigh (maybe something to do with GTK+3 implementation???). No idea really how I managed this much so far. But basically I consider all dev work just a matter of blundering along with whatever little knowledge I have (or can read) and hoping for the best. Linux dev work is typically just a long string of simple, relatively logical, steps. Get them right and in correct order, and get the big surprise of whatever it is 'working' or more likely fail... Aaahhh... I just moved the middle window divider along a bit and now 'Contacts' GUI is fine! Luck per usual.

Meanwhile, the way I made this was to read the following two documents and just went for it:

https://linuxiac.com/void-linux-xbps-pa ... g-packages
https://github.com/void-linux/void-pack ... sues/21359

[wiak]

It used to be the case (and possibly still is) that the life of a laptop battery gets shortened if you let it discharge too far or habitually over-charge it or leave it charging all the time.
I've also read that if you are storing a Li-ion battery it is better to have it charged to 40 or 50% capacity prior to storage since destructive chemical reactions are very significantly less when not stored fully charged (something like that).
I still have some old Li-ion batteries for my old HP Elitebook 2530p machine from 2008 and they still hold a few hours operating charge... I always store them in an airtight box in my fridge (NOT freezer, which would likely destroy them, and air-tight so no moisture/humidity gets to them) and store them pre-charged to 50%. So seems to work for me... It is all risky I suppose.

However, just in case it does help, in usage, I also habitually get cron to run the following simple shell script to tell me to unplug laptop once charged to around 85% and also tells me to plug it in if charge falls to 40% or below. That also minimizes how long the laptop is connected to charger and, on average the battery therefore always stored somewhere between 40 and 85% and never fully charged. In my experience, nothing shortens the life of a Li-ion battery more than keeping the laptop continually plugged in - heat being the killer I suppose...
Some may disagree, but here is the 'battery saver' script I use with my KLV-Airedale install (and Zorin full install for that matter). Per the comments/instructions at the top of the script, crond is required (that's what the cronie package provides) and the crontab -e line is arranged to check the battery state every 5 seconds. I generally store the script in /usr/local/bin per the crontab -e command.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
# Program: battery.sh. Modified from example given in below link.
# https://askubuntu.com/questions/1230418/battery-monitor-for-ubuntu-20-04/1375473#1375473 post: Ensei_Tankado
# To run every five minutes as user
# use crontab -e and add line:
# */5 * * * * /usr/local/bin/battery.sh
# You need crond (cronie) so:
# xbps-install -Sy cronie
# ln -s /etc/sv/crond /var/service/ 
# You also need to substitute you own audio files for paplay to use below
export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/$(id -u)

V1="Charging"

V2=$(grep -w "Charging" /sys/class/power_supply/BAT?/status)

V3=$(grep -Eo '[0-9]{1,}' /sys/class/power_supply/BAT?/capacity)

if [ "$V1" = "$V2" ] && [ "$V3" -ge 80 ]; then
    notify-send -u critical -i "battery-symbolic.symbolic.png" "Remove Charger!"
    paplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/phone-outgoing-busy.oga
fi

U1="Discharging"

U2=$(grep -w "Discharging" /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status)

if [ "$U1" = "$U2" ] && [ "$V3" -le 45 ]; then
    notify-send -u critical -i "battery-symbolic.symbolic.png" "Plug in Charger!"
    paplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/phone-incoming-call.oga
fi

I'm a real fan of old-time cron and don't need fancy gui's to control it (crontab -e use is fine for me once I check the meaning of each field...).
Who needs osmo anyway???! Easy enough to use cron to wish me Happy Birthday each year.

[geo_c]

I'm trying now to do an install of KLV-14 to /sda1 from the iso, and having no joy at all. I'm booting up in fossapup, mounting the iso, copying the files into a directory on /sda1 called /KLV-airedale and running grub4dos, then inserting the menu1st lines found in the boot folder. That results in kernel panic. I'm not sure at this point how to install from an iso without actually burning a cd or making a USB isobooter, which I suspect shouldn't be necessary.

The stanzas look like this:

Code: Select all

title Linux KLV-airedale (sda1/KLV-airedale)
  find --set-root uuid () da16ff94-d099-4561-82fd-8de2946bf467
  kernel /KLV-airedale/vmlinuz root=UUID=da16ff94-d099-4561-82fd-8de2946bf467 ro 
#                      root=/dev/sda1
  initrd /KLV-airedale/initrd.gz

title Find Grub2\nBoot up grub2 if installed
  errorcheck off
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img
  kernel /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /boot/grub/core.img
  kernel /boot/grub/core.img
  errorcheck on

[rockedge]

@geo_c It should go pretty straight forward and it sounds like you set it up. Try to manually edit menu.lst and use one of these example boot stanza's to start KLV-Airedale

In your case the KLV directory should be named /mnt/sda1/KLV-Airedale-beta14
Run blkid in a terminal to find your partition's UUID.

Code: Select all

title KLV-Airedale-beta14  (UUID)
  uuid 01cec708-a02c-4fce-8656-50f9700d951f
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-beta14/vmlinuz  w_bootfrom=UUID=01cec708-a02c-4fce-8656-50f9700d951f=/KLV-Airedale-beta14 net.ifnames=0
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-beta14/initrd.gz

This example uses /mnt/sda1

Code: Select all

title KLV-Airedale-beta14  (/mnt/sda1)
  root (hd0,0)
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-beta14/vmlinuz  w_bootfrom=/mnt/sda1/KLV-Airedale-beta14 net.ifnames=0
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-beta14/initrd.gz

[wiak]

I'm trying now to do an install of KLV-14 to /sda1 from the iso, and having no joy at all. I'm booting up in fossapup, mounting the iso, copying the files into a directory on /sda1 called /KLV-airedale and running grub4dos, then inserting the menu1st lines found in the boot folder. That results in kernel panic. I'm not sure at this point how to install from an iso without actually burning a cd or making a USB isobooter, which I'm suspect shouldn't be necessary.

The stanzas look like this:
...

Yes, the menu.lst stanzas you used won't work. You need a w_bootfrom argument (not root=) and the directory stipulated in the stanza must be exactly the one you have the extracted KLV iso files in (according to what you tried, I presume that is simply /KLV-Airedale). The menu.lst stanzas suggested by rockedge should work fine (once you name the KLV directory exactly as it actually is). If still doesn't boot just post back again with what you used and we will work it out. Don't include any Puppy-related arguments either - KLV initrd is completely different from Puppy initrd.

Using UUID method is definitely to be preferred to the likes of /mnt/sda1 (personally I never use that) since Linux often changes the /mnt/sdaX on different boots (though that is only usually a problem with usb connected sticks and drives I think - but for definite success I'd definitely suggest you use blkid to find the UUID of the partition and the first menu.lst stanza rockedge suggested that uses UUID method.

[geo_c]

@wiak and @rockedge thanks!

Those stanzas did indeed indeed work! I'm posting from KLV-beta14's firefox.

I'll be developing this install a little and hanging on to the upper_changes for awhile. I like having more pups to play with.

[wiak]

@wiak and @rockedge thanks!

Those stanzas did indeed indeed work! I'm posting from KLV-beta14's firefox.

I'll be developing this install a little and hanging on to the upper_changes for awhile. I like having more pups to play with.

Enjoy the KLV-Airedale journey geo_c. It has a lot going for it, including plenty to develop and polish and perfect, but is really very flexible once you appreciate how to use all its various RAM modes and up to 99 overlay filesystem layers. I'm always meaning to try a version that drops down to using just openbox and Lxpanel (or tint2) since that would be even more resource efficient, but frankly it is pretty good as it is anyway in that sense.

Whilst you can use the GUI octo-whatever xbps package installer application, I prefer raw xbps-install for which the link I posted earlier is a good introduction: https://linuxiac.com/void-linux-xbps-pa ... g-packages

And of course Void Linux docs are pretty good including on runit service handling, which really puts the power at your fingertips: https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/services/index.html
and knowing what Void repo apps are available is nicely catered for at: https://voidlinux.org/packages/
and if something not there, the xbps-src mechanism (which I've only recently successfully, to my amazement, tried), also catered for somewhat in above linuxiac link, is a bit like Arch Linux AUR in operation, and has much to commend it (but its not necessary for most users to understand or employ really).

And special mention should be given to the work of fredx181 in providing various powerful utilities, some adapted from Puppy world and some from the DebianDogs, as well as the ever-enthusiastic, constantly updated work of mikewalsh, who has worked hard to ensure all his Puppy-used portable apps, browsers and so on, work equally well on KLV-Airedale.

In terms of the initrd overlayfs functionality, you may find a lot of useful information here (including other w_bootfrom information and similar): viewtopic.php?p=36426#p36426

[mikewalsh]

@geo_c :-

@wiak and @rockedge thanks!

Those stanzas did indeed indeed work! I'm posting from KLV-beta14's firefox.

I'll be developing this install a little and hanging on to the upper_changes for awhile. I like having more pups to play with.

Heh. Strictly speaking, this is NOT a Pup (or a Dog).....it's something of a new direction for the community, a way of trying to produce something a little more "mass-market" perhaps. Something that won't come as quite such a rude shock to those weaned on mainstream distros.

You'll find many of the 'portables' I've produced will run happily here.....including MuseScore, LMMS and Reaper! Keep us posted on your thoughts, anyway.

Mike.

[geo_c]

And special mention should be given to the work of fredx181 in providing various powerful utilities, some adapted from Puppy world and some from the DebianDogs, as well as the ever-enthusiastic, constantly updated work of mikewalsh, who has worked hard to ensure all his Puppy-used portable apps, browsers and so on, work equally well on KLV-Airedale.

In terms of the initrd overlayfs functionality, you may find a lot of useful information here (including other w_bootfrom information and similar): viewtopic.php?p=36426#p36426

Thanks for the resources. I already ran a couple of @mikewalsh browsers, as mainline Firefox is no fun for me! Since I recently came to understand and utilize the power of symlinks, I also linked some profile folders to my system directory outside the 'save.' It all works great.

It occurs to me now, that when I was originally trying to setup the install, if I simply would have inserted the correct UUID for my /sda1, then the menu1st entries included in the iso /boot directory probably would have worked, and I think I will do that so that I get all the RAM upper_changes options. I might have to tweak a couple of the lines. But I'll play around with that also.

[geo_c]

@geo_c :-
Heh. Strictly speaking, this is NOT a Pup (or a Dog).....it's something of a new direction for the community, a way of trying to produce something a little more "mass-market" perhaps. Something that won't come as quite such a rude shock to those weaned on mainstream distros.

You'll find many of the 'portables' I've produced will run happily here.....including MuseScore, LMMS and Reaper! Keep us posted on your thoughts, anyway.

Mike.

Point taken, however it still has the 'feel' and versatility of puppy for me. Hey, it runs as root! And it has ROX. I symlinked some of my ROX settings and bookmarks from fossapup.

Edit:
Maybe a new term is order, CyberPup?

[wiak]

Hi @rockedge:

I am having an issue with my KLV beta14, which may or may not be to do with me using Zorin kernel.

On pristine creation, it seems to work fine.
Then I update with xbps-install -Syu
and installed cherrytree and a few other apps I can't remember.

After all that, when I run Applications(menu) -> Logout -> Restart

my system goes into endless fault loop with some issue to do with evbug reports (evbug input 11). Only way out is to keep power-switch on laptop pressed.

I don't know xfce set up or operation but have deduced that Restart seems to run program: xfce4-session-logout, but that's a binary file and I don't see what to do thereafter to track down what's going on. I do suspect update maybe wrecked my Zorin kernel use, but only I can determine that I guess. Seems unlikely though, I've checked in upper_changes and there has been no update to firmware or modules so all there should be stable. I will keep trying. EDIT: from terminal, shutdown -f now, works fine, and system seems to work fine while logged in...

EDIT2: Have just confirmed all fine on first boot, but issue begins on my system immediately after doing xbps-install -Syu. I'll try later with proper pristine KLV-Airedale (using its default kernel), via usb boot that works on this machine to see if Zorin kernel related issue only.

However, I also realise I do not understand how the Application menu is constructed. I have checked /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu but that seems to be a slightly different arrangement (or maybe I just don't get how it creates, for example, "Internet" section. I note that there is no ~/.config/menus area with a copy of that .menu file in it (to modify). Could you please let me know if any special menu configuration file is being used, and if so, where is it?

EDIT3: So the good news, for rockedge and probably everyone else but me..., is that there was no above evdev issue/problem when I repeated xbps-install -Syu with pristine KLV-Airedale beta14 using its own default kernel. So my issue is related to my using Zorin kernel ... pity ... no idea why the problem really, but I can actually still use that as long as I end my session with shutdown -r now. Or I can use the usb-stick to boot nvme SSD installed pristine KLV, which is probably best for now for me. So, no problem for anyone else - just me, and I do have those workarounds. I may or may not look into the matter further (too many other things to do), but definitely would still appreciate information about how the Applications (start menu) is being constructed, such as where the config file for it is.
EDIT4: My goodness, I've built it a few times and same consistent evbug issue when using Zorin kernel (after system upgrade), but suddenly system is working again normally. Must be a timing glitch. Oh well, time will tell. As I said, this is NOT a KLV issue actually - it is simply an issue I have when trying to use Zorin kernel with KLV rootfilesystem so not for others to bother about.
EDIT5: Good news for me!... Seems to be a minor timing glitch when using Zorin kernel with KLV. I was running with both external keyboard and mouse connected via usb2 hub to single usb port on the laptop. When I plug them instead into separate laptop usb ports all seems to be fine (thus far). Looks like all fine for me afterall (and should the glitch arise again, I found that Restart worked fine even then if I first did: sv stop udevd, but now I don't even need to do that).
EDIT6: Drat! The glitch returned on next boot. Oh well, not a big deal for me; sv stop udevd prior to Restart working fine; I'll just use that and hope future Zorin kernel will work better with KLV.

I still want info about how the Applications start menu is created (where its config file is) etc, thanks!

[fredx181]

However, I also realise I do not understand how the Application menu is constructed. I have checked /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu but that seems to be a slightly different arrangement (or maybe I just don't get how it creates, for example, "Internet" section. I note that there is no ~/.config/menus area with a copy of that .menu file in it (to modify). Could you please let me know if any special menu configuration file is being used, and if so, where is it

From what I understand is that it reads the file /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu which is connected to the xfce-.... category files inside /usr/share/desktop-directories .

[wiak]

However, I also realise I do not understand how the Application menu is constructed. I have checked /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu but that seems to be a slightly different arrangement (or maybe I just don't get how it creates, for example, "Internet" section. I note that there is no ~/.config/menus area with a copy of that .menu file in it (to modify). Could you please let me know if any special menu configuration file is being used, and if so, where is it

From what I understand is that it reads the file /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu which is connected to the xfce-.... category files inside /usr/share/desktop-directories .

That's what I also thought Fred, but the menu order seems a bit different to that specified by /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu. "Internet" seemed out of order. Maybe I just interpreted that wrongly.

[fredx181]

However, I also realise I do not understand how the Application menu is constructed. I have checked /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu but that seems to be a slightly different arrangement (or maybe I just don't get how it creates, for example, "Internet" section. I note that there is no ~/.config/menus area with a copy of that .menu file in it (to modify). Could you please let me know if any special menu configuration file is being used, and if so, where is it

From what I understand is that it reads the file /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu which is connected to the xfce-.... category files inside /usr/share/desktop-directories .

That's what I also thought Fred, but the menu order seems a bit different to that specified by /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu. "Internet" seemed out of order. Maybe I just interpreted that wrongly.

Yes, I think I see what you mean that's a bit confusing, in xfce-applications.menu it's called Network:

Code: Select all

        <Name>Network</Name>
        <Directory>xfce-network.directory</Directory>
        <Include>
            <Category>Network</Category>

Which is the name that should be specified in the .desktop launcher Categories=Network
But in /usr/share/desktop-directories/xfce-network.directory it says Name=Internet and that's how it appears in the Menu .

[wiak]

Not on my computer just now (Android) but I am enlightened by what you explain Fred. Thanks!

[fredx181]

Hi @rockedge and @All

I've been working on an Openbox addition for KLV-Airedale, for now as a SFS (not sure, perhaps a .xbps package with dependencies installed would be better ):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/rs9 ... v.sfs?dl=1 (size=3MB)
Perhaps useful for anyone who doesn't like XFCE very much for some reason.
It's not perfect yet, just sharing to see if there's any interest, anyway suggestions for improvement are very welcome.
Not as complete as the XFCE setup, e.g. perhaps needs some more added, like keyboard-layout chooser etc...
Recommended to add 11openbox-klv.sfs to the folder where the main .sfs files are located and reboot (I didn't test yet with loading 'on the fly', so not sure if that will work OK).
On the root of the XFCE menu there will be an entry "Start Openbox".
Once in Openbox there's an entry in the menu "Start XFCE" to get back to XFCE.
In Openbox there's on top of the menu "Desktop Manager" to be able to switch between a Desktop provided by Rox pinboard and the other, tint2 bottom and top panel.

Screenshot Openbox with Rox pinboard and tint2 bottom panel:

Screenshot_748x421.png (498.89 KiB) Viewed 1519 times

[rockedge]

@fredx181 Excellent! I'll try it out soon.

At the moment I have found that since last week I can not compile and install Zoneminder-master on KLV-Airedale-beta14. I have been struggliing to get an install script to work that just 2 weeks ago installed Zoneminder and all of the web server services using the same script. Odd stuff...

Something to do with gsoap and gsoap-devel and openssl.so.1.1 conflicts is causing failure at 97% complete, which is somewhat frustrating.

So I used an old PLUG file and built a KLV similar to the WeeDog64-Void from earlier on. Uses a JWM - Rox desktop and with some pre config with nothing special or really configured and modified yet. This KLV build uses the Void Linux kernel 5.15.41_1 and the initrd.gz is built using @wiak's WDL build scripts to extract the vmlinuz and insert the kernel modules into the initrd.gz

This KLV variant unbelievably efficient with RAM and htop shows a handful of processes running and CPU loads are minimal at 0% when the system is idling. The JWM - Rox desktop has a very small footprint compared to the XFCE4 desktop in KLV-Airedale.

Zoneminder compiled successfully after some adjustments in this KLV which is a huge relief since I was worried something broke in Void Linux and was causing the package build failure. So ZM is running nicely in this quickly built KLV operating system using a PLUG from the second generation WeeDog's.

I will need to track down what is going wrong now in KLV-Airedale-beta14. Last know successful ZM install via script was on a KLV-Airedale-beta13 and beta12.

Also I will look into the XFCE4 menu builder, I kind of forgot exactly how it works.........

[wiak]

On the root of the XFCE menu there will be an entry "Start Openbox".
Once in Openbox there's an entry in the menu "Start XFCE" to get back to XFCE.
In Openbox there's on top of the menu "Desktop Manager" to be able to switch between a Desktop provided by Rox pinboard and the other, tint2 bottom and top panel.

Yes, that worked for me. Took me down to a login and after entering root/root took me to openbox desktop (and vice-versa) going back to XFCE (can autologin be arranged?). Uses a bit less initial RAM in openbox/tint2 of course.

The sfs package is small (being just a few MB) but I do think an xbps package version would be even better (especially for the pseudo full-install upper_changes I use, since xbps-install -Syu keeps that up-to-date with newest package versions). I imagine the openbox/tint2 KLV-Airedale will also run more responsively on older machines and I guess not too tricky to then remove unnecessary XFCE components (especally in that pseudo full-install arrangement where the whole of 07KLV sfs is kept in uncompressed state (renamed to upper_changes). Remastering is another option for that purpose of course.

Nice to use openbox/tint2 with KLV-Airedale; for some reason I've always liked its simplicity, but slightly more powerful in some important ways than JWM (e.g. JWM doesn't allow you to drag/drop file from filemanager down to app minimised on panel; both openbox/tint2 and XFCE do). Nevertheless, JWM/Rox combination would be very familiar for many and low resource using. I imagine an xbps package (or sfs) could be constructed in similar fashion for JWM/Rox in similar fashion by someone familiar with good JWM/Rox configuration.

[fredx181]

The sfs package is small (being just a few MB) but I do think an xbps package version would be even better .... ...

Thanks for testing, yes I'll work on xbps package soon.

(can autologin be arranged?).

Yes, a bit inconvenient, the need to login, I agree. The login required is a result from the change from startx to exec startx in /etc/profile.d/autologin.sh
We made that change because of weird behavior when typing from console (trying to login as other user and/or back to root, as discussed earlier).
This change in /etc/profile.d/autologin.sh may fix things (so only needed then to type 'startx' to start the Desktop after exit X):

Code: Select all

# autologin on tty1
if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ] && [ "$(fgconsole)" -eq 1 ]; then
  if [ -z "$(pidof -x startx)" ]; then
  startx
  else
  exec startx  # remove the exec if you want back to tty1 on exit X
  fi
fi

Perhaps reboot required to apply, not sure.
From what I tested there's no weird behavior typing from console as it was some time ago and exiting X will stay logged in, so then only typing 'startx' needed.
Please test when you have time, and @rockedge can you test this too ?

[geo_c]

So I've made a desktop link for LibreWolf, and ROX, imported all my ROX mime-icons and options from fossapup, loaded my high contrast custom GTK2/3 themes and everything is running nicely. I installed KLV on the internal HD's of two different laptops. Happily, my sfs of XFE runs with no problems.

For some reason though, dragging an icon from the Applications menu to the desktop works for LibreWolf and ROX, but not for XFE which has an entry in the Applications>System menu. I dragged it onto the desktop and looked at the desktop file and the exec line is just a simple exec=xfe. At first it was telling me that I was opening the program from an insecure location, but gave me the option to run it anyway. On reboot it simply opens the desktop file with Geany. I haven't really used XFCE desktop much, and wondering if the desktop file is a puppy thing, or something common to other desktops. I always thought it was puppy only.

[rockedge]

@geo_c In xfce4 the way is to copy the someapplication.desktop file (or symlink) from /usr/share/applications to /root/Desktop which will put the icon on the desktop, which then can be moved around. Otherwise right click on the desktop and select Create Launcher.

XFCE4 operates differently than the JWM and Rox pinboard set up that is in most of the Puppy Linux variants.

[wiak]

Yes, a bit inconvenient, the need to login, I agree. The login required is a result from the change from startx to exec startx in /etc/profile.d/autologin.sh
We made that change because of weird behavior when typing from console (trying to login as other user and/or back to root, as discussed earlier).
This change in /etc/profile.d/autologin.sh may fix things (so only needed then to type 'startx' to start the Desktop after exit X):

Code: Select all

# autologin on tty1
if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ] && [ "$(fgconsole)" -eq 1 ]; then
  if [ -z "$(pidof -x startx)" ]; then
  startx
  else
  exec startx  # remove the exec if you want back to tty1 on exit X
  fi
fi

Perhaps reboot required to apply, not sure.

Sorry, tried, but didn't work for me Fred. Still wanted root/root login (I also tried rebooting first). I haven't looked into it further myself.
EDIT: Best if rockedge could test it though since I only have my modified KLV that uses Zorin kernel and maybe that causes issues I'm not aware of.

[rockedge]

@fredx181 @wiak I will be testing the Openbox addon later on today!

[geo_c]

@mikewalsh

Just a quick report of my portable experience in KLV. I had some issues with Musescore-portable. Initially it hung on the 'start tours' screen. So I figured maybe I'd try linking to my fossapup profile, which by-passed the start tours and booted, but the main window appeared devoid of any controls, menus, or functions whatsoever. So I'm not sure what the issue actually is. I have a vanilla appimage of Musescore and that ran just fine. So I don't think it's the executable. I also tried to fire up Xnview-portable. That one didn't do anything as far as I could tell, nothing in the task manager.

If they are working for you, then perhaps it's something to do with my KLV configuration. I'm using persistent changes boot, and have an upper-changes directory, using the stanza that @rockedge provided a few posts up in this thread.

I like the idea of using portables as opposed to installs, as I can have consistent preferences/recent-docs/default-directories/etc across different pups.

[mikewalsh]

@geo_c :-

Me, I'm still running with the bog-standard install. I haven't tried ANY of these different types of saves/changes/ways of doing things. KLV works fine for me as-is, so that's one thing I haven't bothered to experiment with.

This is one of the things about developing stuff. Even if it's not something you'd ever use yourself, you STILL have to think of all the different ways in which other people might wish to use it.....

(*shrug*)

In all honesty, constantly altering & changing things, and constantly re-booting the same OS, over & over, again & again, in order to try out all the varied changes is NOT something that has ever really "done it for me". If bog-standard does what I want, that's how it remains.

Bog-standard "Airedale" does everything I want. Stat. (I'm a developer's dream, me. Or not.....depending on how you look at it! )

Mike.

[geo_c]

@geo_c :-
Me, I'm still running with the bog-standard install. I haven't tried ANY of these different types of saves/changes/ways of doing things.

If bog-standard does what I want, that's how it remains.

Mike.

I had to look up the definiton of 'bog-standard." Is this what you mean?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bog-standard

If so, I thought I was using it. But I don't know, these developer threads are difficult to keep up with!

[fredx181]

Here's a xbps package of the the Openbox addon (earlier shared as SFS):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/gld ... .xbps?dl=1
Indeed, as William said, this is better because the packages (dependencies) can be updated (if available).
Small fix : Thunar in Openbox shows icons now on the right-click menu.
---------------------------------------------------------

Yes, a bit inconvenient, the need to login, I agree. The login required is a result from the change from startx to exec startx in /etc/profile.d/autologin.sh
We made that change because of weird behavior when typing from console (trying to login as other user and/or back to root, as discussed earlier).
This change in /etc/profile.d/autologin.sh may fix things (so only needed then to type 'startx' to start the Desktop after exit X):

Code: Select all

# autologin on tty1
if [ -z "$DISPLAY" ] && [ "$(fgconsole)" -eq 1 ]; then
  if [ -z "$(pidof -x startx)" ]; then
  startx
  else
  exec startx  # remove the exec if you want back to tty1 on exit X
  fi
fi

Perhaps reboot required to apply, not sure.

Sorry, tried, but didn't work for me Fred. Still wanted root/root login (I also tried rebooting first). I haven't looked into it further myself.
EDIT: Best if rockedge could test it though since I only have my modified KLV that uses Zorin kernel and maybe that causes issues I'm not aware of.

It would be strange IMO if a kernel influences a basic user-space thing such as a script in /etc/profile.d, if so, it's very wrong I'd say.

[williams2]

The login required is a result from the change from startx to exec startx in /etc/profile.d/autologin.sh

In some Pups, startx is identical to xwin,
often, because startx is just a symlink to xwin.

In some Pups, startx is the Ubuntu startx,
and is completely different to xwin.
(for example, in BionicPup64, startx is the Ubuntu startx)

xwin contains code that is needed by Puppy.
In the Ubuntu startx there is no code that works with Puppy's idiosyncrasies.

If you try to startx using Ubuntu's startx, that is asking for trouble.

Using xwin should always work properly.

For Puppy, a line in /etc/inittab is responsible for auto login.

tty1::respawn:plogin

which executes /bin/plogin