Knoppix 9.1

[mouldy]

Been playing with some old computers to see if they still work with current linux. First a thin client with AMD G-T52R and 4GB RAM. This is a single core processor with "one thread". Meaning its a single core that can boot a 64bit system. It however is only 1.5Ghz... It booted 32bit version Knoppix off SSD installation, no problem. Even acceptably usable. I launched Kindle for PC in WINE 7.1. It worked until I tried using the dictionary function, WINE CRASHED leaving me back to desktop, Knoppix didnt crash and I could reopen Kindle on WINE if I wanted. Marginal but acceptable. Put it this way, you really dont want to try and watch streaming video in browser, dropped frames like nothing else. The only 64bit I got to boot was LXDE spin of Fedora 35 installed to a SSD. It booted...slowly. But once I opened Firefox, it crashed. I couldnt boot Fossapup.

Now another with similar processor is old HP DC5000 or might be DC5700, cant remember now. Anyway it has a hyperthreaded single core P4 processor, something like 2.8Ghz. Twice as fast as the single core AMD. It came with 32bit XP back in the day, 64bit was just marketing thing, really wasnt much 64bit anything out there at the time. Fine until one year my tax software sniffed for XP and rejected running on it. I think it could otherwise have continued to run, its TAX SOFTWARE, not something that does much other than ask questions and do calculations in background. No serious graphics involved. But anyway installed unactivated version win10 (64bit) and locked it down so no background processes running and no phoning home for updates. Takes forever to boot but runs ok once booted. Well of course the Knoppix being 32bit booted quickly and ran well. Nothing else would boot from SSD, so tried live dvds from usb dvdrom. Ok, Slacko 64bit was fastest (I didnt have any SSD installed version to try). Fossapup 9.5 64bit which wouldnt boot from SSD would finally boot as live dvd, but it wasnt happy about it and took longer than anything else. Fat Dog aborted during boot! Yea got a message popped up, aborted! Interestingly MX21 (64bit) though slow booting, was similar to win10 in time to boot, and once booted did fine. Fedora 35 and Manjaro and Debian 11 took extra long to boot from dvd, but finally did and were ok once booted.

Now moving up to super slow AMD E-350 dual core. Sure somewhere there might be even slower dual core processor, maybe some old ATOM, but it wouldnt be easy to find one. Didnt try the dvds. MX19 wouldnt boot. Neither would Fossapup. Interestingly LXDE spin of Fedora 64bit did best on it. Knoppix had no advantage here, though it also booted fine. Its weird but I think I almost prefered Knoppix on the AMD G-T52R over the E-350. I expect Slacko 7 might do well.

Anyway, my point, you really have to try different distributions especially on older hardware to find one that works best. Knoppix however impressed me by booting relatively fast from everything I tried it on and running pretty well. Its one you no longer hear much about. Initiation sequence starting......

[Clarity]

Knoppix was one of my favorites in past years: It was the first that I found containing successful use of persistence and boots to RAM. Also his inginuity for disabled users was a keynote. ... WONDERFUL!

Loved it at the time.

[mikewalsh]

@mouldy :-

G-T52R specs actually look quite respectable. It's even got support for vT. That's something of a moot point, though, 'cos ANY single-core processor is going to have its work cut-out to do much of anything nowadays.

Software is just becoming SO 'heavy'....

Mike.

[mikewalsh]

Whoo, I've finally done it. And it was well worth the wait.

I've toyed with the idea of Knoppix for years, on & off.....but the one thing that's always put me off was the installation. Given that I wanted it on USB, NOT a disc, all the guides I found involved lots of complex command-line stuff. And then, just this morning, I found a link to the definitive, easy-to-accomplish installation guide over at LinuxQuestions.org.

The answer was SO simple it was laughable. Let UNetBootin do it for you. And it has.....perfectly.

My GOD, this thing has some stuff installed. Mostly from the KDE Project.....but, for the first time ever, I have a fully-functional Compiz desktop "cube" - middle-click + drag to rotate - PLUS the old favourite, "wobbly windows"! Great fun!

All my favourite graphics & multimedia apps are already on here, so no need to install anything. Just need to copy over the 'portable' version of MooiTech's Photoscape, 'cos even WINE's already installed..... I shall then be 'set'.

Interestingly, despite selecting the appropriate download mirror for the 64-bit version, I appear to have 32-bit? At least, the kernel reports it's an i686 build, so.....I dunno. Mind you, it MUST be the 64-bit version, since both Openshot and KDEnlive only come as 64-bit these days. Have done for a few years, in fact.

So; what's with that i686 "MicroKnoppix" kernel..???

Posting from the built-in Chromium right now. All I NOW need to do is figure out how this "persistence' functions.

This one's definitely a "keeper"!

Mike.

[Grey]

PLUS the old favourite, "wobbly windows"! Great fun!

The wobbly windows looked good But my favorite effect was when the window rolled up into a paper airplane and flew down
I recently found out that it is possible to configure Linux Mint (Mate environment) for these effects.

[mouldy]

The mini knoppix is if you want to put it on a cd I think. Just basics without a dvd full of compressed software. The full version FILLS a dvd with compressed files. Its an amazing amount of software included on big version.

Now when you get to grub, hit F2 and/or F3 and get cheat codes. You can boot it with a 64bit linux kernel. But I think to maximize software, most of sofware is 32bit. But if you boot with 64bit kernel, assuming you have the libraries assume you can install 64bit software.

I "installed" it to a SSD (yes there is option to install to flash, SSD, or internal hard drive). This is their version of a frugal install, with compressed files and an overlay that lets you retain settings and installed software.

One thing i still havent figured out, it insists on writing over whatever file stores my pick of time zone, the default seems to be Eastern USA time zone. On reboot, no matter what you change it to, it reverts to that without using a cheat code. It also reverts to manual set on clock, one has to run ntpd in terminal.

But its very stable and other than the time zone quirk, boots fast on just about anything.

I have a 32bit version Debian 10 LXDE spin on dvd. Should try it as a comparison. But pretty sure Knoppix is faster. Not sure how, but it is, at least booted from usb SSD install. Nothing except some versions Puppy boot super fast from cd/dvd. Its slowest way to boot. I was however impressed how fast 64bit version Slacko 7 booted from think it was the DC5700. It was fastest and Fosssapup was the slowest. Fossapup just didnt like older hardware no way, no how.

[mouldy]

@mouldy :-

G-T52R specs actually look quite respectable. It's even got support for vT. That's something of a moot point, though, 'cos ANY single-core processor is going to have its work cut-out to do much of anything nowadays.

Software is just becoming SO 'heavy'....

Mike.

Yea a 1.5Ghz single core is going to struggle no matter what anymore. The HP DC5700 with the single core hyperthreaded P4 is just adequate. Its around 2.8Ghz so twice as fast as the 1.5Ghz AMD. The P4 can boot 64bit but its slow doing so, once booted however it does fine. Well mundane stuff, its no power house but you can use it without it feeling sluggish. It has 4GB RAM.

Honestly we are moving into era when I dont much want less than dual core around 3Ghz and unfortunately 4GB RAM becoming the minimum. CAn you run on lesser machine, sure, but dont expect miracles. Its not operating system nearly as much as things like browser. They are resource hungry anymore.

I didnt compare them directly but I think the consumer comparable processor to the G-T52R is E-240. Both single core AMD Bobcat family processors.

[mikewalsh]

@mouldy :-

I installed it to a 64 GB SanDisk Cruzer 'Fit'.....one of those tiny wee 'nano'-sized jobs. It's actually just a much bigger version of the very same model I installed Tahrpup 6.0 CE to all those years ago when I first started with Puppy.

I used an 8 GB Cruzer 'Blade' - cheap as chips, but quite serviceable - for the UNetbootin 'install'. That got me up and running, booting from menu.lst->Advanced, then selecting sdc to boot from (luckily, I had a 3rd drive attached to the system when I originally installed Grub4DOS, so it shows up under 'Advanced'. There's no UUIDs involved, only 'map' & 'hook' chainloader stuff.....)

I then used Menu->Knoppix->Install to flash drive to create a 'proper', permanent install.....along with a 30 GB 'persistence' partition, so the 'overlayfs' file will have plenty of space to grow..!

I'm dubious about the claim over 32-bit software; as I said, both the Openshot AND KDEnlive video editors have been 64-bit only for quite some time, so I'm curious as to how they run using a 32-bit kernel..... I don't really care;it all works nicely, an' that's the main thing. I'm happy with it!

I'll find out tomorrow if the few changes I've so far made have actually been saved.

Mike.

[xenial]

This laptop of mine must be going on for over ten years old..A free gift from my dad and it had vista installed.I wiped that off the drive and it seemed this machine was destined for servitude in the local tip.

However a chance article on puppy raised the bar slightly and so i decided to give it a shot and been here ever since.

it is a bloody miracle any modern browser runs on it but they do and with relative ease.
Really the only thing which dies is the internal hard drive and most people sling the laptop because of a few block errors etc.

This laptop has a few read errors on the drive but it still functions..
Is a brand new laptop really a necessity when second hand is just as good.

[mouldy]

Old computers can be quirky. I have been playing more with the HP DC5100 (yea thats finally definite what it is). Anyway noticed it had a SATA connection on motherboard. Ok, took SSD with 64bit MX-19 out of my daily driver and borrowed SATA cable too. Oh it liked that. Combo of using an SSD plus that internal SATA connection rather than usb, makes all the difference. Assuming the usb on this is on slow side. Its not as fast as my dual core daily driver but it comes close. Amazing for a single core actually. Remember its a hyperthreaded single core P4 so can run 64bit. On dual core, it doesnt matter much if I use usb or internal SATA connection for the SSD. Sure the SATA is faster, but not really noticably faster.

I am not going to bother but imagine if I moved win10 from the clunky old original mechanical hard drive, it would improve its performance too. It boots very slow. But only use it once a year for taxes so doesnt matter. Knoppix does nice on this computer but for some reason I cant tether with Azilink with Knoppix on this computer. Says refuses connection, tried various things and at this point pretty well versed with Azilink. Knoppix can tether with Azilink on other computers and I am tethered with Azilink on MX with this computer. So?? There isnt any actual Azilink software on computer, its on the phone. Need adb and openvpn on the computer, and a script to tell openvpn what it needs to do to connect to Azilink app on the phone. Meaning theoretically Azilink can connect windows or MAC computer too, any computer with adb and openvpn. Oh Fossapup does fine booted from SATA SSD like this too but isnt any faster than MX or Knoppix.

[Clarity]

EVERYONE...Be careful with this distro. It is a drug that you will get hooked on!

I know because I WAS a decade ago. It is so 'revolutionary' that I could not break away. If it had not been for my 64bit PC back then failing, I would still be on it. When getting another 64bit, I found Lighthouse here in Puppyland which was the closest to having much of what Knoppix had. And I merely forgot about it.

So this weekend, I revisited AND as @mikewalsh reports, its exactly as I remember...ease of use, RAM only choice at boot, Persistence still there, Multimedia features covered, and assistance to those with disabilities, and ...

Yep, its a keeper! So I will dedicate a PC for it and retire my Lighthouse64 that I have been keeping alive in favor of going back to the current Knoppix.

P.S. I THINK it is due for an upgrade as he does thru Linux Magazine, yearly.

Again, be careful...ANY 64bit PC will accomodate it and you'll spend a year finding all the nuggets this distro offer desktop users; this distro is a drug.

An incredible work of Art...er' "Technology".

P.S. As I remember, too, every package the author includes in the distro has a companion explanation on the web and in youtube. So this again adds to the ease of use along with the distro's friendliness. Nothing is hidden or has local (local to knoppix) "created only here" packages; thus all is found in open-source. Correct me if I am wrong on this point.

[tosim]

@Clarity You are so right! I first came across Knoppix in 1998, and over the years, "played" very slightly with it.
However, after reading your above post, I dl'd and installed it on a 64GB flash drive. Booted it, and suddenly over four hours
had gone by! WOW, it is impressive, loaded with tons of stuff. For anyone that may be interested, here is a link to the package
list: http://mirrors.sonic.net/knoppix/knoppi ... es-dvd.txt