Taking a break from active foreground development.

[wiak]

In the early (May 2019) days of WeeDog Linux (including its 'FirstRib' root filesystem component) I wrote the following with good intentions and a lot of hope for its usefulness:

A key aspect of FirstRib build design is to use only two components to build the rootfilesystem: busybox + a native standalone static compiled package manager (currently Void Linux xbps package manager and for debian-based flavours: debootstrap).

The philosophy employed in FirstRib design is to keep [its two] build scripts short, simple, and modular, such that they are easy to read and understand, and thus easy to modify, develop, and maintain.

That design inherently allows FirstRib to construct a fully upstream- compatible root filesystem of any desired complexity, from that of a commandline only system, up to full desktop supported natively by the upstream distro repositories. A simply implemented optional plugin facility is also provided, which allows any developer to provide their own recipe additions for any desired-complexity of the resulting final build.

The build WeeDog initrd shell script is also short and simple by design, including generation of a short and simple initrd/init which uses overlay filesystem to provide frugal install save persistence, typical load squashfs capabilities (including currently unique ability to load uncompressed physical directories into the layers hierarchy), and copy2ram option

Good news is that WDL has maintained that simple philosophy, and led the way with overlayfs use, and some current Puppy dev systems have now at last adopted the philosophy of using busybox plus official upstream repo package managers in their underlying Puppy system designs rather than try and reinvent the package manager wheel with relatively slow and inaccurate PPM-type designs! Positive progress indeed. Currently these new (and not quite so new) Puppy developments includes:

VoidPup (32bit and 64bit variants), which is particularly interesting because Void package manager (xbps) is such a good fit for integrating easily into Puppy: viewtopic.php?p=44733#p44733

and

Vanilla Dpup (also 32bit and 64bit variants), which integrates Debian's dpkg/apt via an sfs addon (in basically similar manner, though with some refinements, to the WDL-contributed dpkg/apt sfs addon for FossaPup64 and BionicPup32): viewtopic.php?p=37654#p37654

Meanwhile, WDL build system is being usefully used to help construct recent Puppy forum "Kennel Linux" community distro KLV-Airedale and similar, including a lot of useful utility/system help from DebianDog's fredx181, so a lot of positive development activity going on that is hopefully good for the community and its several distro variants as a whole.

Above is the sort of positive effects on Puppy distro itself that I hoped the design philosophy of WeeDog would encourage and foster. There has admittedly been some resistance and friction from some quarters against many WeeDog originally implemented ideas, but good to see resistance is crumbling, or perhaps, per bigpup, 'Resistance is Futile'!!!

Whilst development of WeeDog continues, and also with my two young (10 and 16) sons' assistance, since it is the distro our family uses for serious business purposes, I myself, forum-wise will be putting up my feet for a while. That's mainly because of a recent health scare (and it being mid-summer here) but also because I don't feel I am particularly needed at the moment, if really at all (I designed my own need out in the simple WDL build system script plugin-extendable designs to some extent). KLV-Airedale, for example, which uses components from the whole Puppy forum universe is coming along nicely - not many developers involved (in any distro thread these days) I suppose, but nevertheless KLV in good capable hands regardless (rockedge being a rock in that respect), so, to a large extent, I feel I am not really needed in further progressing that very nice effort overall: viewtopic.php?p=44012#p44012

Wow, I love these KLV distros and also really (very much) VoidPup, the first actual Puppy distro to take my interest in any major way for over eight years in fact.

Interesting times.

wiak

[amethyst]

Get well soon wiak.

[tosim]

Please allow me to echo the reply by @amethyst above.

[TerryH]

Take care of yourself, enjoy your summer and get your health sorted.

[rockedge]

@wiak Go out and grab a lawn chair, find a shady spot. Sit around sipping some sweet tea, breath deep and get some rest and relaxation.

Just don't wander off too far.

[wiak]

@wiak Go out and grab a lawn chair, find a shady spot. Sit around sipping some sweet tea, breath deep and get some rest and relaxation.

Just don't wander off too far.

Thanks rockedge (and also amethyst, tosin, and TerryH). Already now doing so, but main event remains drinking coffee, a cereal beverage called 'Inka', and lots of Soy icecream (my favourite). Main health issue I need to cure is addiction to posting to this forum, this final final post for now being evidence of that

One 'passing' remark (excuse the pun) before I truly 'vanish' for a few weeks or months or whatever, is that I personally hope all developers and contributors to any project/distro discussed on this community forum will in future all make a point of 'doing their best' to identify related or earlier projects. There are many reasons to do so:

For one thing, it is a standard, considered essential characteristic of modern, professional and academic research. Even if you regard this as a hobby site, a certain amount of professionalism is always helpful in a forum involving technical creativity.

The accuracy of even limited citations tends to act as a measure of quality, of any new piece of work as a whole, since it provides interested readers historical perspective, which inevitably provides far more detail of the issues that have been identified and solved or improved upon along the way. Not referencing previous work, on any project of significance, not only limits understanding of what was involved overall, but also fails to respect and acknowledge that probably no work of value ever grew from empty ground.

We all stand on the shoulders of the hard work of those others whose (sometimes failed or miserable) attempts came before, and it comes across as somehow shallow, disrespectful, dishonest, and self-centred to ignore the accumulated-history of works that inspired anything present - and, perhaps, particularly in a small relatively close-knit community such as this one. We most all know much of what has already been worked on or discussed or contributed.

Whilst there is no need (or generally time) to provide intricate details of previous related or similar pieces of work, even a little acknowledgement to the members of the community as a whole makes this a better place and brings us closer together as a team of friends and like-minded individuals rather than making us come across as competitive egotists whose only interest is to glorify our own efforts. I know I too have been accused of sometimes endlessly talking about WeeDog Linux and to some extent I am guilty of that - it is my project afterall, I'm human, and it is more pleasurable, and even encouraging, when at least a few others can be encouraged to become interested in it too!

Nevertheless, whether recognised or not, I do generally try to make a point of identifying other works that led the way, inspired me somehow, or were particularly similar in any shape or form. I am far far from perfect though, so I no doubt have failed to give sufficient credit to others on many occasions, and I apologise for that, but really I do make a point of trying most of the time to record some history of events and work by others that led to my own efforts.

There is of course absolutely nothing wrong (and indeed it is necessary) to state why a new piece of work somehow or other represents an improvement over what has come before (or why use it?) but it would have been entirely ignorant of me to have not, for example, once cited the following at a time (a year ago) when I contributed an sfs addon for Fossapup64:

...
there have been discussions and some practical successes with using apt installed via PPM on Puppy but this FirstRib can provide a more flexible plugin/bolt-on different approach
...
2017 mikeslr discussing josephjp2424's pupjibaro jessie distro
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=940753
2018 how to use apt in Puppy thread by s243a (up to apt-cache search anyway)
(includes some general forum thread discussion on Pros/Cons of using apt in Puppy)
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... ?p=1010671

Back now to my Soy icecream. Despite having been a longtime, leather-jacketed long-haired biker for much of my earlier adult life, I adopted a vegetarian diet by the time I reached late teenage, and vegan-diet by the time I was around 40, though I'm no fanatic in that regard, and the rest of my household are anything but vegan in their own eating habits...sigh (I suffer in silence).

Will you hear from me again in yet another day or two? No you won't (even if mikeslr thinks I can't keep away). No, I am pulling my own plug and switching off for a while now (on this forum at least).

[puppy_apprentice]

a cereal beverage called 'Inka',

Is this Polish roast grain drink?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inka_(drink)
or you have in USA Scotland/New Zealand own Inka?

I like normal coffee but drink sometimes Inka with honey and milk or sour chocolate.

[fredx181]

Get well soon wiak.

+1

[Clarity]

+1

[wanderer]

rest up and get well soon
and say hi now and then if you feel up to it

wanderer

[mikewalsh]

Take your time and do whatever needs to be done.....even if it's just being lazy and putting yourself first for a while. And rest easy in the knowledge that you have inspired more folks here than you know......

Don't take any notice of our past, minor disagreements (as much my own fault as anyone's). You'll be welcomed back whenever you decide to put in an appearance again.

Get well soon, mate.

Mike.

[wiak]

Take your time and do whatever needs to be done.....
...
You'll be welcomed back whenever you decide to put in an appearance again.

Owing to another thread detailing user-concerns about the forum becoming less active, I thought I should make it clear that I have not myself 'left' the forum and continue to read just as many threads as usual in the background. I will be back, in active dev sense later, just not for a while. That's mainly because other matters have caught up with me and, being summer, and recovering from mild health issue, consider this a good time to slow down for a bit. It is certainly not that I have become bored or less enthusiastic and so on. And I don't myself consider Puppy world in any kind of terminal decline - in fact, I am even using a Puppy (VoidPup), regularly, for the first time in years simply because it moved on from relying on PPM (and I find Void repos/package manager a really, and exciting, good fit for Puppy-type builds - can be very reliable - alternative dpkg/apt are larger, more complex and tricky to get working 'perfectly' when Puppy system underneath, but for debian/ubuntu-enthusiasts I certainly feel that dpkg/apt Pups are worth working on except that DebianDog inevitably, because of its underlying Debian-system design, does that better).

Of course, I am most closely of all now following/experimenting with KLV-Airedale builds since I understand the relatively simple build procedures involved and like the fluidity and saving/layering flexibility of the overall project, as well as it proving to be very stable in overall operation (be that with XFCE, JWM/Rox or other easily created variants).

Certainly there are a lot of great distros out there in the overall Linux world nowadays, and some are very polished and do pretty much anything any 'user' would want - just a fact of life, but nothing I'd worry about - choice is better than no choice. Puppy itself probably needs to maintain an aim on remaining as small a release as possible - that helps its ability to run in RAM efficiently (since many distros can also run in RAM, but size can become an issue). The main thing would be that Puppy has to offer something that other distros don't or can't - limitations such as non-multiuser capable or poor package management are not an incentive for use, so uniqueness has to bring advantages and have a point no matter how much work goes into any Pup's development. Flexibility is another key characteristic that I think is very important - solutions that limit flexibility in order to achieve RAM savings or CPU efficiencies are going to limit their future appeal and usefulness because of their lesser flexibility; that's a compromise, but overall it is better to sacrifice a little RAM/CPU if much greater configuration/flexibility is a result - tons of RAM/CPU power nowadays.