[CLOSED] VoidPup32 & VoidPup64 development thread

[dimkr]

Could @jamesbond, or someone who has a copy, please re-post here the Void-package-woof-CE-format script (I think it was for that) that he originally posted on original community distro dev thread that bigpup deleted. I did not realise the important resource would be make to vanish without warning so have no copy of it but would like one.

And please provide the modified woof-CE you used to build this Puppy, otherwise other people can't reproduce/modify it and it's "closed source", in the sense that only one person has a secret recipe.

It's much easier to collaborate on one codebase when everyone has access to it. (And, woof-CE can run directly in GitHub, making it easy to build a Puppy even if you use another distro).

[mikeslr]

Just passing on another thought (before it is re-absorbed into the ether ). Another way to avoid the VPM-PPM conflict --a variation to using SFSes-- is to make use of adrv.sfses and ydrv.sfses to hold 'purely-puppy-purely ancillary-applications'. As you know Puppys --using a Puppy Kernel-- will always load on boot-up an adrv and ydrv if present. [Modify the initrd to make use of gyrog's work, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 801#p29801 and any number of 'alphabet drives' can be used].

amethyst has published an application --part of his nicOS-Utilities-Suite, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 983#p12983 which makes it easy [if and when necessary] to update adrvs and ydrvs --especially if the applications they contain are packaged to run from /opt. Just manually delete the old application folder; install the new and re-run the Save2SFS >adrv or ydrv module. Probably an 'easy ' mod to his script would enable it to be used with other 'alphabet' sfses.

And its one draw back --package managers don't know what's in 'alphabet drives'-- would turn out to be an advantage: VPM just wouldn't know they exist and wouldn't try to update them or their components.

[rockedge]

@peebee @jamesbond Excellent progress. So far VoidPup32 is running blazingly fast on a DELL VOSTRO 1500 laptop. With a Celeron CPU and 800 M of RAM. Connected via eth0 right away and so far is performing very well.

Code: Select all

Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 540 @ 1.86GHz
Min/Max Speed: 233/1866 MHz
Current Speed of Core 0:1866 MHz
Core Count: 1
Thread Count: 1

Frequency governor   : ondemand
Freq. scaling driver : p4-clockmod

CPU Vulnerabilities:
 itlb_multihit:KVM: Vulnerable
 l1tf:Mitigation: PTE Inversion
 mds:Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; SMT disabled
 meltdown:Mitigation: PTI
 spec_store_bypass:Vulnerable
 spectre_v1:Mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
 spectre_v2:Mitigation: Full generic retpoline, STIBP: disabled, RSB filling
 srbds:Not affected
 tsx_async_abort:Not affected

Core 0 (coretemp) : +60.0 C (high = +100.0 C, crit = +100.0 C)

Personal Storage Folder:
 Name: /VoidPup32/vpup32save-A
 Total Size: 73G 
 Free Space: 60G 
 Location: partition sda1

Memory Allocation:
 Total RAM: 987 MB
 Used RAM: 666 MB
 Free RAM: 321 MB
 Buffers: 93 MB
 Cached: 432 MB
 Total Swap: 511 MB
 Free Swap: 511 MB

 Actual Used RAM: 141 MB  	Used - (buffers + cached)
 Actual Free RAM: 846 MB	Free + (buffers + cached)

Kernel Release: 5.4.0 (i686)
Kernel Build: 5.4.164-kernel-kit@a69365a59efd
Build Date: #1 SMP Mon Dec 13 00:19:37 UTC 2021
Build GCC: 9.3.0
PAE Enabled: Yes

Kernel Command Line:
pdrv=5e1ddb8e-3549-4d64-8043-d35218195632  psubdir=/VoidPup32 pmedia=atahd pfix=fsck net.ifnames=0

Distro: VoidPup32 21.12
Window Manager: JWM v2.3.7
Desktop Start: xwin jwm

Development:
 Bash: 5.1.8
 Geany: 1.38
 Gtkdialog: 0.8.4 (GTK2)
 Perl: 
 Yad: 0.42.1 (GTK+ 2.24.32)
 --
 busybox: 1.31.0
 dhcpcd: 9.4.0
 Glibc: 2.32
 OpenSSL: 1.1.1l  24 Aug 2021, built on: Wed Aug 25 17:16:32 2021 UTC
 wpa_supplicant: 2.9

Username: root
Language: en_US.UTF-8
Keyboard: us
Timezone: GMT0

Firewall: Off (ip_tables not active)
Network Interface:  wlan0
Wireless Network: THX1135
Bit Rate=150 Mb/s Tx-Power=20 dBm 
Link Quality=70/70 Signal=-40 dBm 
Wireless strength: 100%
Session Data: Received 63.4 MB, Sent 56.6 MB
Monthly Data: Received 64 MB, Sent 57 MB

Hostname: voidpup32
Network IP Address: 192.168.1.11
Domain Name Server (DNS): 192.168.1.1
Hardware Address (MAC): 00:0B:81:93:64:45

Boot Partition: sda1 (Size 73G, Free 60G)
Boot File System: ext3
Boot Media: atahd

PUPMODE=12
PUPSFS=sda1,ext3,/VoidPup32/puppy_vpup32_21.12.sfs
PUPSAVE=sda1,ext3,/VoidPup32/vpup32save-A

Question, how are you retrieving the Void Linux repo index.plist originally to run the script on? Could you share an example of what and where?

[mikeslr]

Thanks, Keef, for the information about 'iptables'; and jrb for that about zoneinfo. Both firewall and 'set-timezone' appear to be working properly.
Thanks jrb for the information about osmo. osmo-0.2.10-i486-s10.pet also works. Note the 's'. This is also one built for 'slackos'. I first tried one built for xenialpup32 and discovered that under Voidpup32 it was missing libs.

[peebee]

Question, how are you retrieving the Void Linux repo index.plist originally to run the script on? Could you share an example of what and where?

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#!/bin/sh
#171221
echo "Fetching Void repo database archive"
rm i686-repodata
wget https://repo-us.voidlinux.org/current/i686-repodata

echo
echo "Extracting the xml database from the archive"
mv i686-repodata i686-repodata.tar.zst
tar --zstd -xf i686-repodata.tar.zst

echo
echo "Converting the Void xml database to the Puppy PPM format (@JamesBond)"
./cvt.sh > Packages-void32-current

echo
echo "Move [Packages-void32-current] to Woof-CE build directory"
echo "Enter to finish"
read

rm *.plist

[peebee]

And please provide the modified woof-CE you used to build this Puppy,

Not yet in a fit state!

[wiak]

Same with KLV-airedale developments; first the developer will install and manually tweak (maybe via chroot to the KLV root filesystem from host build system) and only when satisfied all is good (which might take a long time) finish modifying the main build script(s) appropriately to allow build-time duplication. Admittedly, all mods could theoretically be implemented in build scripts from the start, but that would be terribly inefficient (including in CPU resource usage) since if not working the build scripts themselves would need hacked and constantly rebuilt. Nevertheless, can still release interim isos that other users can experiment with and make suggestions for improvement including bug-fixes to the running distro - Edinburgh wasn't built in a day.

In my own current KLV-related development (alternative desktop manager) I'm not even releasing anything quite yet since I prefer most of the system to be in workable state before looking for bug-reports/feedback and certainly a while till build scripts updated to include everything I'm experimenting with. I have personally requested current KLV build script from rockedge, knowing it will not be in same state as iso-build at this stage, but only because a partially finished build script is okay for my own current alternative desktop dev needs. I only need his current iso release otherwise for general KLV testing/feedback.

It's perfectly understandable therefore that only an iso of VoidPup32 is available at this stage though of course it will be educational to see the final build script details to see how everything was successfully made to work. No point 'github-style' pushing till you are ready and sometimes it is 'difficult' to implement some work into easily reproducable build script form (not easy to script all human hacking actions, so takes a big effort to do so...).

Mind you, the earlier Puppies did not get published with any build scripts at all. Hence the interest people had in remastering (aside from the fact that remastering is an easier method to modify an original than to modify any build script system and particularly any hugely complicated one).

Also, often, to quote yet another cliche, too many cooks can spoil the broth - it is easy to pick holes in another persons work, which is not very helpful if not done constructively, and different people have different viewpoints anyway - best to hack early versions together in your own quiet time with general feedback taken into consideration...

[peebee]

Alpha+3 is available (now hosted on SourceForge) - see post #1

Delta from +0 is also available

VPM now 'knows' about the built-in packages

GParted is working (I think)

includes the iptables and zoneinfo fixes found by @Keef & @jrb Thanks!

[wiak]

VPM now 'knows' about the built-in packages

Well done, and to @jamesbond too on that one.
This Pup has a lot going for it. Very useful.

Downloading right now.

[hundido]

A beginner's experience:

I tried to install VPup32 manually. I copied the files, and then ran Grub2config, but Grub2config didn't find it.
I deleted all the files.
I ran Frugalpup to install VPup32, Slack64-8.2.1, and FossaPup64 to a USB. Grub2 worked there, and I had a newly installed USB. Looked like all 3 puppies installed just fine.
Using my Ryzen 5800x, I tried to boot VPup32.
I think it said, "Loading initrd.gz" or something where it hung. It was the 2nd line of text. I did a few things and came back. It was still there.
I hard powered off and rebooted using the same USB into the Slacko64-8.2.1 install I did at the same time, and am writing from that now. I'm about to try on a 32 bit computer and see if it works there.

[hundido]

I tried to boot it on my 32 bit Acer AspireOne and it booted and seems to work.

I tried again on my 64 bit Ryzen 5800x and it again hung at the second line, Loading initrd.gz

[mikeslr]

This will probably be my last post until Voidpup32 achieves sufficiently greater maturity that I can actually build anything using it.
I decided to explore the thought I had here about building an adrv or ydrv, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 130#p45130 so that applications which run under other Puppys could be used without Void Package Manager wouldn't have to know and throw a conniption fit. I hate wasting time and resources to rebuild what already exists. The problem with that is that Voidpup lacks many of the dependencies required by those applications.

ListDD could be installed and run. But the icons it uses are in not in a format supported by Voidpup. Tried some other things then finally got around to opening Menu>Setup>Void Package Manager.

void package manager.png (82.5 KiB) Viewed 59817 times

Compare that to sc0ttman's pkg-cli:

pkg-cli.png (410.46 KiB) Viewed 59817 times

I can make sense of pkg-cli. With a little effort I can probably learn to use it. Maybe having a nice list of instructions is sufficient for those accustomed to running apt-get via a terminal. But what happened to the idea that Puppys are supposed to be 'user-friendly'?
FWIW, pkg-cli seems to work fine under Voidpup32 except for the pkgdialog module. AFAICT, it requires ncurses which is lacking. Gpkgdialog runs. If I knew how, I could probably point it to Void's repositories.

[mikeslr]

But before I really call it a day, another desktop for Voidpup32, really courtesy of 01micko whose graphic I flinched.

vpup.png (11.11 KiB) Viewed 59813 times

[dellus]

Is it really from 01micko? I would love to have the original as svg. Do you know where I can get it? Have you added the lower body yourself?
Sorry for the deviation.

[wiak]

This will probably be my last post until Voidpup32 achieves sufficiently greater maturity that I can actually build anything using it.
I decided to explore the thought I had here about building an adrv or ydrv, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 130#p45130 so that applications which run under other Puppys could be used without Void Package Manager wouldn't have to know and throw a conniption fit. I hate wasting time and resources to rebuild what already exists. The problem with that is that Voidpup lacks many of the dependencies required by those applications.

I have the opposite view. I find it trivial to add new apps and utilities to VoidPup32. I'm actually not myself very proficient with xbps, which is the actual (underlying) official package manager for Void Linux repos, but I find that vpm frontend for xbps really easy to use (and love that it then provides the actual xbps command used). Void repos are pretty good and contain pretty much anything I really need or want to add to the Pup. However, it is true that pre-made sfs files for Pups may or may not work out of the box in VoidPup32 since the distro has been created as core/minimum as possible (which is great I feel) and so not bloated out with libs that most of the time might not be required. However, most programs report whatever libs are missing and it seems easy enough to me simply to use vpm at that time to install any missing (vpm s <partial_package_name> works very well to search for actual package names I find). Anyone wanting a more sophisticated gui frontend to xbps can simply install Qt5-based octoxbps and run-it-as-spot. I'm not suggesting this particular Pup is in fully polished state as yet - how could it be (?) - it is declared by its creator to be an alpha, but works pretty fine in my tests anyway (and I don't know Puppy configs so I'm just a 'user' of this distro in practice).

[mikeslr]

@ dellus,
No. I had saved it somewhere and stumbled across it while looking for something else. Neither my memory nor pfind can now locate the original which, AFAIR, indicated it's author. Originally it was formatted as a 'gif', a black drawing against a white background.
The only thing I can suggest is to reverse the process I used:

Take a screenshot large enough to capture a good bit of background.
Open that in gimp.
Create a New Image, using Transparency as the background.
Cut & paste into that a section sounding 'the pup'.
Select a color other than black or white for painting.
Use Zoom to increase the size; then Tools>Select>By Color Select to Select the White line drawing.
Select the white line drawing.
Paint the lines with the above new color.
Using the By Color Select tool, select the black background; then erase it.
Select the color you want for painting the line drawing.
Then, again, use Color Select to select the line drawing and repaint it.
Takes about as long to explain as to do.

[peebee]

Alpha+4 fixes the optical disk issue.

There is an issue with Frisbee - the "Connect" button is greyed out and inactive - can anybody help diagnose whats wrong?

[rockedge]

@peebee Thank you!

I will see how it goes with Frisbee and report what I find.

[rerwin]

The "Connect" button is greyed out and does not connect!
I can however establish wifi connections with both SNS and netwiz.
Just wondering if you can point me where I should go looking to investigate the cause?

peebee,
Thanks for contacting me about this problem. Rather than guess at what to tell you, I have installed VoidPup32, see the issue and will look into it today and during the weekend.

Richard

[rerwin]

Original message replaced. I'm a bit rusty on Frisbee.

If you double click on one of the connections listed, the Connect button becomes enabled. I am able to connect to my wireless network.

Curiously, when I tried this in ImpishPup32 Frisbee failed to respond with the prompt for a password or to connect. But only the first time, it prompted but then did not connect. That's a different issue.

[peebee]

If you double click on one of the connections listed, the Connect button becomes enabled.

Many thanks @rerwin - that sounds like it might be a GtkDialog issue (maybe)....

[peebee]

Alpha+5 is uploaded (iso & delta from +0) - see post #1 - just some further "tidying up".....

A ydrv to add LXDE is also now available - see post #2

[wiak]

Alpha+5 is uploaded (iso & delta from +0) - see post #1 - just some further "tidying up".....

A ydrv to add LXDE is also now available - see post #2

So, I've been playing with the alpha5 release with LXDE ydrv, which, being an openbox fan, I prefer.

Since recently been using weX for screencast and so on with KLV-airedale, I thought I'd test it on this voidpup32 as well. To install it, first I needed giblib so did:

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vpm i giblib

Then I simply used the dotpets (wex and 32bit version of scrox required) I'd uploaded long time back for LxPup. You can download them from the following post:

viewtopic.php?p=1102#p1102

and then simply click on them in filemanager and they should install.

I also manually installed fredx181's gifsel-enc to my /usr/local/bin, though that step is optional, so that I could make a quick animated gif (attached) - I should have made it bigger I suppose (weX has a button in its config gui that immediately loads up gifenc-sel to make an animated gif of the just recorded video/screencast).

Finally, I installed mpv. Just for fun I originally tried doing that via PPM; seems to work but was very slow, but didn't run so I simply used xbps via vpm again, and that worked fine (pretty big install but not so big as the likes of vlc or even mplayer):

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vpm i mpv

wiak

[peebee]

devx & kernel_sources are now available - see post #1

[mikeslr]

Hi peebee,
I ran into a problem with Alpha5; not with the necessary files but with the ydrv.sfs. I decided to start from scratch, so wiped my prior including its Save and downloaded the new ISO. Unpacked that to a folder and booted into it. Everything seemed to go well until I rebooted attempting to create a SaveFile. The SaveFile wasn't created. Tried again, this time attempting to create a SaveFolder. No SaveFolder was created.
So I moved the ydrv into a 3rd level folder in order to keep it, but not have it used on boot-up. This time a Savefolder was created. Moving the ydrv back into place, it was used on reboot.

Less important, but it just doesn't look 'professional'. The 'synchronize time on each boot-up' and 'initial configure wifi' are in the wrong order. 'Synchronize' comes first and --if you only have wifi not yet configured-- fails.

[peebee]

I ran into a problem with Alpha5; not with the necessary files but with the ydrv.sfs. The SaveFile wasn't created.

The 'synchronize time on each boot-up' and 'initial configure wifi' are in the wrong order. 'Synchronize' comes first and --if you only have wifi not yet configured-- fails.

Thanks @mikeslr
Will investigate 1.
Don't really understand 2. ?? I think you're trying to synch time from a timeserver? This Pup is no different to any other (recent) in this regard..... Clearly the synch won't work until you have an internet connection........ What are you thinking should be changed in order??
Thanks
peebee

[MagicZaurus]

Just as a feedback. I tried to boot the ISO in a VirtualBox VM (Version 6.1) and it boots, but doesn't start X. Was also not successful with the xorgwizard to get to the desktop also.

So far I'm running BionicPup32 and Fossa64 on a daily basis without any problems in VirtualBox. Also UpupHH was not a problem to boot to the desktop. Maybe some difference in drivers for this VoidPup.

[BologneChe]

Just as a feedback. I tried to boot the ISO in a VirtualBox VM (Version 6.1) and it boots, but doesn't start X. Was also not successful with the xorgwizard to get to the desktop also.

So far I'm running BionicPup32 and Fossa64 on a daily basis without any problems in VirtualBox. Also UpupHH was not a problem to boot to the desktop. Maybe some difference in drivers for this VoidPup.

I also tried this version under Virtualbox (my computer does not take 32 bit versions). I have had similar problems to you without being able to solve the whole thing (via xorgwizard). But this Puppy is a version in development ... we will follow the project closely

[peebee]

Alpha+6 iso and delta from +0 uploaded - now includes perl_tiny - see post #1

LXDE ydrv also updated (@radky)

[mikeslr]

,,,
Don't really understand 2. ?? I think you're trying to synch time from a timeserver? This Pup is no different to any other (recent) in this regard..... Clearly the synch won't work until you have an internet connection........ What are you thinking should be changed in order??
Thanks, peebee

"This Pup is no different to any other (recent)". I think your right and it wasn't a criticism of your work. They all do it wrong. A Woof-Thing?
The first time you boot into any Puppy, the QuickSetup first-run settings opens automatically. When you click "OK", the Psync Time Server Synchronizer GUI appears. Unless you manually start the Internet Connection Wizard and establish a connection (as by clicking its icon on the taskbar --something a newbie wouldn't know) the Internet Connection Wizard will not appear until you click "Sync to time server" . And as you've noted, "Clearly the synch won't work until you have an internet connection."

Ist Start Sequence.png (287.02 KiB) Viewed 59777 times

If the Psync Time Synchronizer routine is at all necessary, it should follow the establishment of an internet connection. Perhaps like what occurs with regard to setting up a firewall if Simple Network Setup is chosen: When a connection has been established and set, the Firewall setup GUI is triggered.
Psync Time Synchronizer can always be started via Menu>Desktop>Psync Time Server Synchronizer*. One of settings you can make on the QuickSetup dialog is your location (else it defaults to, IIRC, the Devs). When Psync Time Synchronizer appears the timezone is already entered. The only new choice a User has before clicking "Sync to time server" is whether or not to put a check in the "Synchronize your clock at each system startup". I wonder if there is a sizeable percentage of users who DO NOT want their operating systems synchronized to their time zone (or any time zone)?

p.s. Thanks for Alpha6. I'll let you know if the Save problem I had with 5 is still present.

-=-=-=-
* This, more accurately, should be on the Setup sub-menu. But that Sub-menu is already cluttered. A lot of our menu listings are hold-overs from a time before there were Wizards and radky's JWM Control Panel. AFAIK, settings are made under xfce [maybe openbox and others not JWM] and the 'Major Distros' by first opening a Control Panel. There are no specific menu entries. IMHO, the only specific menu entry under JWM should be to up-date the Menu. And that only because its something frequently needed when you are 'fleshing out' your system. Maybe something to consider when developing a Puppy for the modern era.