Windows 11 is Here (Almost)

[sonny]

Microsoft is trying to get away with murder… again

[sonny]

Winsanity.png (225.61 KiB) Viewed 948 times

[sonny]

Puppy Linux: No updates but essence!

Puppy.png (166.19 KiB) Viewed 943 times

[sonny]

https://youtu.be/J8phSH6cuS0

Please pay attention closely what these people say (including their body languages) ...

1. "Windows 11: Modern, fresh, clean, beautiful!"

Hey dude, where were "safe", "secure", and "private"?
Last time I checked, bigpup said, "The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue..."

2. "To serve you the docs and the apps you need..."

Right, "you don't need safety, security, and privacy from this new Windows but new "makeups" and new "features" (psst ... to distract you like candies to children and to make you forget the essence of an OS).

ASAIR I did not hear any of them mention anything "security" and "privacy" but new features, new features, new features...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[mikewalsh]

Pfffftt..... Who cares? I shall never be on that side of the fence again, as long as I live. (Not if I have owt to do wi' it, anyroad...!)

Mike.

[sonny]

Pfffftt..... Who cares? I shall never be on that side of the fence again, as long as I live. (Not if I have owt to do wi' it, anyroad...!)

Mike.

Mike, what about a little help for "those on the other side of the fence who are staggering to the slaughterhouse"?

[mikewalsh]

Pfffftt..... Who cares? I shall never be on that side of the fence again, as long as I live. (Not if I have owt to do wi' it, anyroad...!)

Mike.

Mike, what about a little help for "those on the other side of the fence who are staggering to the slaughterhouse"?

^^^

[mikeslr]

Mike, what about a little help for "those on the other side of the fence who are staggering to the slaughterhouse"?

I know you didn't mean me. But even from a deep sleep I respond the "Mike", or "Ike" or "bike"

You can open a paddock's gates --pun intended --, viewtopic.php?p=26898#p26898. Getting sheep to break "out of the Windows jail" is --to continue mixing metaphors-- a horse of a different color.

[sonny]

Hello Sir Mike!
Are you and mikewalsh the same person?

[wizard]

This "update" has the potential to obsolete millions of business class computers. I'm guessing there will be a lot of "push back" from those users, who comprise the bulk of MS's cash cows.

wizard

[sonny]

Windows is just Microsoft's "pawn".
It "sacrifices this" in order to "secure that".
It "sells this" in order to "buy that".
It "distracts", "diverts", and "deceives".
That's my "prophesy".

[mikeslr]

Hello Sir Mike! Are you and mikewalsh the same person?

I've said this before. Reports of there being billions of people is part of a disinformation campaign. There are only about 10,000 who keep changing their clothes. Changing names is another ploy.

Well, you've found us out. Mike Walsh and I are the same person even though we are on different sides of the Pond. This is made possible because of the miraculous birth of my father. According to the US Census Records he was born 'in the old country' a year after his mother emigrated to America. Only the last sentence is true. Unless, of course, this post is also part of the disinformation campaign.

p.s. Only Mike Walsh is eligible for Knighthood. Even when offered the opportunity I declined a military commission. So referring to me as "Sir" is inappropriate. Doctor, maybe, but that's another story.
The truth is (a) I'm lazy; and (b) I come from a part of the country where people speak fast, and sounds get blurred. So the handle "mikeslr" sounds exactly the same as my name "Mike Kessler" and I have less to type.

[sonny]

Good to know, Sir!

[sonny]

Hello Sir Mike! Are you and mikewalsh the same person?

I've said this before. Reports of there being billions of people is part of a disinformation campaign. There are only about 10,000 who keep changing their clothes. Changing names is another ploy.

Well, you've found us out. Mike Walsh and I are the same person even though we are on different sides of the Pond. This is made possible because of the miraculous birth of my father. According to the US Census Records he was born 'in the old country' a year after his mother emigrated to America. Only the last sentence is true. Unless, of course, this post is also part of the disinformation campaign.

p.s. Only Mike Walsh is eligible for Knighthood. Even when offered the opportunity I declined a military commission. So referring to me as "Sir" is inappropriate. Doctor, maybe, but that's another story.
The truth is (a) I'm lazy; and (b) I come from a part of the country where people speak fast, and sounds get blurred. So the handle "mikeslr" sounds exactly the same as my name "Mike Kessler" and I have less to type.

Life is sexually-transmitted

[sonny]

"Microsoft’s Windows 11 BSoD to Become Black
Windows 11 was launched last month and will be available as a free update to existing Windows 10 users - although some devices are unable to run the new system, which requires a minimum of 64 gigabytes of storage and 4 gigabytes of RAM.
Microsoft will wind down Windows 10 in 2025.

BlackSoD.jpeg (128.88 KiB) Viewed 755 times

Another visual change is that the start button has been moved to the bottom centre of the screen from the bottom left."

11.jpg (53.29 KiB) Viewed 755 times

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57695586

[dancytron]

This "update" has the potential to obsolete millions of business class computers. I'm guessing there will be a lot of "push back" from those users, who comprise the bulk of MS's cash cows.

wizard

Which means the latest Windows 7 era desktop computers will drop down to less than $50 or so, which is Raspberry Pi territory.

[sonny]

This "update" has the potential to obsolete millions of business class computers. I'm guessing there will be a lot of "push back" from those users, who comprise the bulk of MS's cash cows.

wizard

Which means the latest Windows 7 era desktop computers will drop down to less than $50 or so, which is Raspberry Pi territory.

If I were SN, I'd switch the name from "Windows 11" to "Windows 19".

[williwaw]

Requirements:
1 GHz dual-core 64-bit processor
4 GB RAM
64 GB storage
UEFI, Secure Boot support
Trusted Platform Module version 2.0
DirectX 12 compatible graphics
720p resolution display

The hardware should have a TPM chip, which may not be the case for some PC builds or laptops. Fortunately, it is not all bad, you may just need to enable it from your BIOS settings including the Secure Boot support, to make your PC eligible.

Technically, processors older than Intel 8th gen and Ryzen 3000 series are not officially supported as per Microsoft’s official documentations

They are obligated to throw a bone to their loyal hardware cronies? My guess is they could back off on this if it looks like they will loose too many customers

what's with Windows Subsystem for Linux? assimilation?

[wiak]

This "update" has the potential to obsolete millions of business class computers. I'm guessing there will be a lot of "push back" from those users, who comprise the bulk of MS's cash cows.

wizard

Which means the latest Windows 7 era desktop computers will drop down to less than $50 or so, which is Raspberry Pi territory.

Yes, lots of cheap old desktop computers. I'd rather have a Raspberry Pi nowadays though. For one thing I have quite a number of old Win7 grade computers cluttering the place up. For another, I personally am concious of the greedy energy consumption of most old desktop computers - in a year the extra energy they 'waste' could contribute to a new more energy efficient machine. But if you don't have a computer that is good for running your Linux on then of course good to have that new availability of not so terribly old desktops. Basically the market is becoming flooded with old technical gear though, rendering most of it junk and therefore landfill - that's why new computers should by law have easy recycling capability built into their design and sale model.

[mikewalsh]

Storage requirements; 64 GB, huh? What the f**k are they doing with all that space, mmm..? To think I used to consider XP's meagre 3 or 4 GB "greedy"....

And then you need to allow at least 3-4 times that additionally on top for "Shadow Volume copies". I didn't used to believe folks that have told me over the last few years that a 500 GB drive was barely big enough for Win 10 to run 'efficiently'. Jeeez.....

Mike.

[rcrsn51]

And a Puppy ISO used to be 100MB. Now it's 400MB. Talk about bloat!

What happened to the good old days when Puppy would run on a Pentium II with 128MB RAM?

[BologneChe]

This "update" has the potential to obsolete millions of business class computers. I'm guessing there will be a lot of "push back" from those users, who comprise the bulk of MS's cash cows.

wizard

Which means the latest Windows 7 era desktop computers will drop down to less than $50 or so, which is Raspberry Pi territory.

Yes, lots of cheap old desktop computers. I'd rather have a Raspberry Pi nowadays though. For one thing I have quite a number of old Win7 grade computers cluttering the place up. For another, I personally am concious of the greedy energy consumption of most old desktop computers - in a year the extra energy they 'waste' could contribute to a new more energy efficient machine. But if you don't have a computer that is good for running your Linux on then of course good to have that new availability of not so terribly old desktops. Basically the market is becoming flooded with old technical gear though, rendering most of it junk and therefore landfill - that's why new computers should by law have easy recycling capability built into their design and sale model.

Your comment is sensible and relevant.

[sonny]

And a Puppy ISO used to be 100MB. Now it's 400MB. Talk about bloat!

What happened to the good old days when Puppy would run on a Pentium II with 128MB RAM?

Just make all apps optional (including browser, like Porteus 4 does).

[wiak]

And a Puppy ISO used to be 100MB. Now it's 400MB. Talk about bloat!

What happened to the good old days when Puppy would run on a Pentium II with 128MB RAM?

Just make all apps optional (including browser, like Porteus 4 does).

Exactly. Main value that remains for most use-cases of such small distros remains the ease and speed of download. But 400MB nowadays just as easy and quick to download as 100MB was some years ago - a GByte or two isn't really a major issue either (just drink a coffee whilst it downloads). If you upgrade all the Puppy apps via PPM and add the likes of gimp and full inkscape and so on the Pup save file/folder soon swells to a GB and more in practice anyway (of course it does - the apps have big dependencies - all you can do is trim the language-related files and docs in the end).

However, as far as usage goes most all machines within the past dozen years have plenty of hard drive storage space and size of overall distro on disk has nothing whatsoever to do with the running memory the distro needs and uses unless you want to copy the distro into RAM prior to using it (which wastes a lot of valuable RAM in practice). In fact a Puppy frugal install that is configured by default to run the distro from RAM uses a lot of RAM - fortunately you don't need to run a frugal installation in copy2ram mode (that mode was mainly useful on old systems that had slow to access hard drives, but alas these same old systems had an even bigger problem with very little usable RAM memory already anyway so a bit of a Catch22 situation there).

But... if you really want a tiny downloadable core distro still, then the likes of tinycorelinux can still provide a very useful example of that - but there is a problem that always basically existed even then (and probably always will) - such distros only remain small if you don't need to install anything other than its own repo-provided slimmed down small apps (such as mtpaint, small editors like geany and leafpad, gnumeric and so on) - same issue with Puppy really (though using external sfs modules is a way of sharing such unavoidable big apps between multi-installs) - as soon as you need a modern browser, up shoots the on-disk hard disk storage size (which isn't as I say really a problem) and up and up goes the system RAM usage big time (which is the real issue we all wish we could avoid, but alas, cannot really since the main issue is more to do with heavy webpages such as modern javascript-based and so on).

Actually, even in 2007 or so, when I regularly also used tinycorelinux I found that the final size of the installation was no smaller than Puppy Linux once I installed the browser and other apps to bring it up to the same specs - same applies today. Same goes for the DebianDogs, for example, pretty much the same download size as Puppy Linux and same or equivalent frugal install modes (copy2ram capability and so on) but once I install the apps I want the save folder is usually several GBytes in size, and I don't consider myself a particularly heavy apps user (but who doesn't want full Inkscape, full gimp, Kdenlive or similar, and nowadays various Electron-based types of apps for handling our Cloud stored needs?). Can't avoid it, call it bloat if you like, but the sophistications available nowadays go way beyond just word processing and simply reading the news on our web browser - and most everyone all the provided Cloud-provided sophistications and social media communications apps, and cloud storage facilities, and can no longer really do without them (or wouldn't want to do without them). Question is: how simple can we realistically still make a distro without greatly limit its wanted usability - my observation is: not much really - not once we install the extras "needed".

Package management is a really complex problem in practice. It's no wonder that even the big distros no longer depend on their traditional repo package manager offerings to cater for all needs. Rather, for 'trickier' more complex apps they defer to snaps and flatpaks and Appimage-type install solutions - thus accepting that download/disk-storage 'size' is not the issue that plagues us.

But yeah, lets go back to ascii-text and ascii-art only. A lot can be done with ascii-handling systems alone. In a few MBytes (or kilobytes even)... Alas that dumping old computers (even with Puppy Linux on them) over to Africa and other developing areas of the world is no solution to anything either - they use Facebook and Tik-Tok too - so, Android smartphones pretty useful (but obsolete quickly too) - Raspberry Pi's...useful for years. Old computers - a mountain of pollution that is dirty and dangerous to recycle in current practice.

Nothing wrong with big distros (accept that many here want to run them as 'root' user - but that can be achieved too with help or knowledge how to do it - but brings its own problems nowadays with need for security sandbox apps and so on, that don't easily run as root...). For speed and efficiency just learn to replace their shiny bloated desktop environments with a simpler GUI frontend such as one using the likes of openbox Desktop Manager and tint2 (panel) - or Joe's Window Manager that comes with its own panel with a little less resource usage but not quite so much facility. Plus pcmanfm or Rox or similar for a desktop pin board and a boot init that allows frugal installation modes. That's basically what we do here. Easy here to take an official Ubuntu or Slackware or whatever root filesystem and adapt it in the same way (I often do exactly that) - then you end up with dependable full compatibility with the upstream repo too.

Stop worrying about 'initial' download size - so many people wasting so much of their time trying to get their tiny download distros working properly with all the apps they want to somehow install - what a never-ending battle - what a waste of precious human lifetime hours!!! Face it...times have changed - Apps get developed and improve all the time - but only upgrade when you want to of course!!!

Having said all that... if mucking around trying to get your distro exactly as you want it is a hobby you enjoy occupying all your time with then Puppy is perfect for your needs You can use up even more of your time writing and contributing build plugins for constructing your own WeeDogLinux systems (so I'm not blaming Puppy) and re-configuring a full Ubuntu system can use up all your life spare time too if you continually change your ideas and plans and preferences. It's a great hobby in fact, and I'm not joking - it is as satisfying hobby as any other so in that scenario there is no need to worry about the millions of human labour hours being used to address Puppy issues either.

Or use Windows 11 when it comes, and God help you.

wiak

[PuppyandCo]

And a Puppy ISO used to be 100MB. Now it's 400MB. Talk about bloat!

What happened to the good old days when Puppy would run on a Pentium II with 128MB RAM?

The penalties and risks of carrying on using that PC in 2021 are small though. As the junk PCs pile up, I stop wanting 1 updated PC that can do 10 jobs simultaneously and instead have 10 old PCs doing 1 job each. Writing a letter on a Pentium II is the same as on a Core-i7, unless they find a way to speed my brain up.

This makes Windows less relevant, as the whole point was being able to switch between activities. There is some environmental impact, but (i) I've lost patience with being told about it, and (ii) it's not all for the worse. I have more PCs on standby, but I demand fewer new ones to be manufactured, and the amount of processing is (not falling, but) rising by less, since apps aren't being left on in the background of each other, and I can often continue using older versions of applications that are less resource-hungry.

If this continues, I really only write and read on this PC so it might not need a full-colour, backlit display anymore. Could go back to solar-powered crystal-on-substrate.

Windows 11 feels like Microsoft are again serving the market a sandwich of an unmentionable sort. This time the business users might start to fall not because of anything to do with the product but because of automation - an AI can write 100 sales emails in parallel without needing 100 windows licences. Gamers, as their other stubborn market, increasingly have a choice between buying a new PC to run a new generation of derivative, uncreative tosh, or a Linux pc running all the good old stuff on emulators. Each successive next generation of games gives less justification for hardware increases - they can put more polygons in the trees, but someone would have to draw them all and I wouldn't notice if they did.

[wiak]

And a Puppy ISO used to be 100MB. Now it's 400MB. Talk about bloat!

What happened to the good old days when Puppy would run on a Pentium II with 128MB RAM?

There is some environmental impact, but (i) I've lost patience with being told about it, and (ii) it's not all for the worse. I have more PCs on standby, but I demand fewer new ones to be manufactured, and the amount of processing is (not falling, but) rising by less, since apps aren't being left on in the background of each other, and I can often continue using older versions of applications that are less resource-hungry

Well, what you say about environment issues is true I think. By far the greatest environmental cost/footprint is likely to be in the manufacturing process, so I take back some of my previous comment... In that view keeping old machine running is better option for the environment. In my (poor) defence, I was talking from the perspecitive that I have been given a relatively much newer (but several years old) laptop for free recently (a core m vPro mobile fanless HP Elitebook Folio 1020-G1 laptop), and from the point of view that newer machines than the likes of old PIII-class can be obtained cheap or for nothing nowadays anyway - tons and tons of such much newer lower power consumption machines (especially if laptops not desktops); these replacement already exist so do not involve new manufacturer. I also want to save even a wee bit electricity - the power bill saving might help pay for my daily coffee (well at least a few cups of coffee per year I hope). I myself have several PIII laptops and a P4 class desktop cluttering up my house cupboard. However, from years ago, I also have several, over 12 years old, very low powered Core2Duo (low-voltage/power CPU models). So none of these needed to be manufactured for my benefit - they are flipping 'old'... but the old Pentium III machines are just useless for what I do nowadays - I'd post them to you but bad for the environment to fly them over...

Having said that, my over 12 years old low-voltage/low-power Core2Duo CPU laptops are still going strong and for a few more perfectly useful years yet. In that vein, what dancytron says is equally useful - these business Windows7 class machines (especially the laptops) will have many years of environment-life left in them yet for us Linux users. You'll be chucking out your old Pentium III junk soon then I hope (or into your house cupboard like mine). Longer term, computer makers need to be forced to design machines for easy recycling, which they certainly don't do now.

[JASpup]

And a Puppy ISO used to be 100MB. Now it's 400MB. Talk about bloat!

What happened to the good old days when Puppy would run on a Pentium II with 128MB RAM?

I see an analogy to my WM position.

JWM Puppy is slightly more stable than XFCE, but not enough to reject the latter. Judging by Task Manager and qualitative performance, there's not a big system resource difference either.

So once you're using a modern computer, even a budget box, you don't need JWM, same way you don't need a 100/128 Puppy.

The question becomes: what are we giving up & gaining for the bloat?

I'm still torn on WMs, like ice cream flavors, but resources influence that thinking.

[bigpup]

what's with Windows Subsystem for Linux? assimilation?

That is Puppy Linux, slowly taking over control of Windows OS, and turning it into Linux OS.

[sonny]

We use devices like computers, smartphones, tables, etc to get the job done with maximum result and minimum resource.
OS alone won't get the job done but the apps.

I am forced to use Windows because of Rufus, ProShow, etc etc. The only Windows own module I use is File Explorer.
64GB of storage? Just to use its File Explorer?
Windows snowballing* has no essence, "size" only.
*"Going downhill"

[JASpup]

Do users update their WinOS beyond the service packs & auto updates, or do they just buy a new machine?

I never have, though I'd been wrestling with XP on an old 98 box months back.

I think that's the capital point.

Gates' social contribution dwarfs his wealth.

You need Windows 11 because time is passed & profits are demanded.