Tahr Pup 64-bit: what's your opinion?

[amethyst]

Anyone using this Puppy and if so your experience? The first Puppy to be also available in 64-bit, I think. I used the excellent 32-bit for a long time.

[s243a]

Tahr is/was a great pup but I don't think that there have been any new releases / tweaks / remasters released in quite a while.

[bigpup]

Very good version of Puppy Linux.

However, it is getting old.

With newer Linux software (especially newer versions of browsers) you really need to use a newer Puppy version.
The needed versions of support software is not in Tahrpup.

You do not say what the computer has for hardware.
The newest official version of Puppy is Fossapup64 9.5
It supports a lot of the older computers, as well as newest ones.
I suggest try it.
It has the latest versions of about everything and does work for very new browsers.
Same person developed Tahrpup and Fossapup64 9.5.
So, Fossapup64 9.5 is kind of the newer version of them.

[mikewalsh]

Tahr 64 was a good Puppy in its day.....but those days are a long way behind us now.

Its biggest issue was always that Ubuntu temporarily kicked the cat among the pigeons with Trusty, and returned to the older avconv instead of using the better-developed & more supported ffmpeg. This led to all sorts of necessary dodges & workarounds, simply to have working audio & video.

It also may not support certain newer audio chips. I re-visited Tahr briefly last year with jrb's 'lite' version, and had to transplant Xenial64's kernel simply to get any sound out of the thing.....Tahr was always equipped with the now, frankly elderly 3-series kernels. Hardware has moved on, and if you want to use Puppy with slightly LESS old hardware then you'll now need a newer version.

Don't get me wrong; yes, it was indeed Phil's first ever 64-bit Puppy, and yes, it was something of a learning curve not only for him but for the community, too. We're all of us 'beta' testers, when it comes down to it! But he made his usual marvellous job of it.

My personal recommendation for a 'threshold' Puppy that manages to bridge the gap between supporting both older hardware AND newer software has to be its successor, Xenialpup64 7.5. It straddles the gap comfortably ATM, though I wouldn't like to say how long that situation will remain...

I'll never go as far as Bigpup and always recommend the very newest Puppy all the time. I'm one of these folks who like to let technology prove itself, and to thoroughly settle down and become totally 'stable' before I start using it as a 'daily driver'. However, that's not to say that I don't look at the newer Pups; I have a fully-fettled Fossapup64 set up and running, though I only go into it occasionally for now. And it would be churlish not to at least look at the newest offerings; after all, Phil, peebee, josejp7474, mistfire, etc, go to a lot of trouble to produce Puppies based on the current offerings. I think they at least deserve an appraisal..!

Mike.

[rockedge]

I've been able to swap to newer kernels in Tahr with success. I add a static version of ffmpeg. I still use Tahr64 as an Apache2 server that is a reverse proxy gateway. That being all it does, it's awesome.

[mikewalsh]

I've been able to swap to newer kernels in Tahr with success. I add a static version of ffmpeg. I still use Tahr64 as an Apache2 server that is a reverse proxy gateway. That being all it does, it's awesome.

Kernel 'upgrading' is simple enough; I was able to use Xenial's k4.9.58 without any problems. And I like using John van Sickle's static ffmpegs across the kennels anyway; I've always found part of Puppy's audio/video issues is often related to the very elderly - and stripped-back - versions of ffmpeg it comes with, OOTB.

JvS's static builds are, quite frankly, one of the best additions you can make to any Puppy.

Mike.

[s243a]

I've been able to swap to newer kernels in Tahr with success. I add a static version of ffmpeg. I still use Tahr64 as an Apache2 server that is a reverse proxy gateway. That being all it does, it's awesome.

Kernel 'upgrading' is simple enough; I was able to use Xenial's k4.9.58 without any problems. And I like using John van Sickle's static ffmpegs across the kennels anyway; I've always found part of Puppy's audio/video issues is often related to the very elderly - and stripped-back - versions of ffmpeg it comes with, OOTB.

JvS's static builds are, quite frankly, one of the best additions you can make to any Puppy.

Mike.

Can you use the static builds of ffmpeg with the browser?

[amethyst]

Concerning older Puppys and browsers (works for Palemoon and Seamonkey at least) let me just bring OscarTalks's post to your attention: viewtopic.php?p=13436#p13436
I can confirm that video and audio for all youtube videos and live streams works perfectly for me with Precise (after doing the config change in the browser).

[s243a]

Concerning older Puppys and browsers (works for Palemoon and Seamonkey at least) let me just bring OscarTalks's post to your attention: viewtopic.php?p=13436#p13436
I can confirm that video and audio for all youtube videos and live streams works perfectly for me with Precise (after doing the config change in the browser).

I simple project for someone might be to remaster tahrpup, by replacing the browser with one of the versions you mentioned and make sure the links to the repos used in the ppm are still valid and if not fix them.

[amethyst]

Concerning older Puppys and browsers (works for Palemoon and Seamonkey at least) let me just bring OscarTalks's post to your attention: viewtopic.php?p=13436#p13436
I can confirm that video and audio for all youtube videos and live streams works perfectly for me with Precise (after doing the config change in the browser).

I simple project for someone might be to remaster tahrpup, by replacing the browser with one of the versions you mentioned and make sure the links to the repos used in the ppm are still valid and if not fix them.

Constant updating of the PPM will be required for that suggestion as newer browser versions are released regularly. What I do - Edit the base sfs by deleting the builtin browser completely (do this manually because the remove builtin packages tool does not always do a good job). Then use sfs addons for my browser of choice. I don't install stuff and don't use a savefile/folder either.

[s243a]

Concerning older Puppys and browsers (works for Palemoon and Seamonkey at least) let me just bring OscarTalks's post to your attention: viewtopic.php?p=13436#p13436
I can confirm that video and audio for all youtube videos and live streams works perfectly for me with Precise (after doing the config change in the browser).

I simple project for someone might be to remaster tahrpup, by replacing the browser with one of the versions you mentioned and make sure the links to the repos used in the ppm are still valid and if not fix them.

What I do - Edit the base sfs by deleting the builtin browser completely (do this manually because the remove builtin packages tool does not always do a good job). Then use sfs addons for my browser of choice. I don't install stuff and don't use a savefile/folder either.

Someone could still package something like that as an ISO, which would include the extra sfs for the browser. If no one provides an updated version of tahrpup, then at this point many people won't use it given that it is older. These days I've been recommending precise light over tahr because JRB updated precise with the preceise light release. No one has done this for tahr so I don't tend to recommend it.

[amethyst]

Just use the newest Palemoon browser with Precise/Tahr. It works OOTB. BTW - I use my own version of Precise myself, jrb's version has too many leftouts.

[s243a]

Just use the newest Palemoon browser with Precise/Tahr. It works OOTB. BTW - I use my own version of Precise myself, jrb's version has too many leftouts.

For a new user, it is much easier if I can just point them to an iso that works as-is. If I have to be like:
1. Fix the links to the repos
2. Install this browser
3. And use this version of puppy

then I'm inclined to point them to a puppy that just works as-is rather then expect the new user to do all this tweaking. This usually means stretch/bionic or newer but in some cases it means precise light or Slacko 5.7.2 CE. If someone wants to make more good older alternatives then I can recommend them.

[amethyst]

Just use the newest Palemoon browser with Precise/Tahr. It works OOTB. BTW - I use my own version of Precise myself, jrb's version has too many leftouts.

For a new user, it is much easier if I can just point them to an iso that works as-is. If I have to be like:
1. Fix the links to the repos
2. Install this browser
3. And use this version of puppy

then I'm inclined to point them to a puppy that just works as-is rather then expect the new user to do all this tweaking. This usually means stretch/bionic or newer but in some cases it means precise light or Slacko 5.7.2 CE. If someone wants to make more good older alternatives then I can recommend them.

None of the released puppys have the very latest version of browsers anyway, I think browsers should just be excluded from all official releases. BTW - the officially released Precise of 6 years ago works with the latest Palemoon as said without any tweaking.

[mikewalsh]

TBH, nobody with any sense installs browsers in Puppy via the PPM anyway. As you say, they're always seriously out-of-date, and half the time they need 'tweaking' to work under Pup in any case, since they're set-up for a 'sudo'ed' multi-user environment.

Browsers are one of the few items that you NEED to keep up-to-date, 'cos that's where most of the crap comes into your system. This is why several of us spend so much time maintaining a choice of browsers for the community to access.....and although not everyone agrees with me, my personal opinion is that the 'portable' browser concept fits Puppy to a tee. Which is why I produce so many of them.

Mike.

[bigpup]

Fossapup64 9.5 is basically the updated version of Tahrpup64 6.0.5
With a newer kernel for newer hardware support, along with needed drivers and firmware.
Newer versions of about everything else.
Does it support really, really old hardware?
Should work on anything from Pentium 4 onward.
May need to swap out the kernel with a series 3 or 4 to get a little better older hardware support.
Hardware support is mostly the kernel, what it still supports, and what hardware features it is expecting to be able to use.

[TIFTAF]

@ mikewalsh
I agree with your statement.

First of all I have been using Precise-5.7.1. until recently.
I have been using Palemoon since its first release, together with Precise-5.7.1. until palemoon-28.15.0.linux-i686.tar.xz.

Palemoon-28.16.0.linux-i686.tar.xz did no longer work with 5.7.1. because of a change to gtk3 I believe.

That was the reason why I switched to Tahrpup64 6.0.5 CE. Here
Palemoon-28.16.0.linux-x86_64.tar.xz and following versions work without a problem.

Personally I prefer older puppies like Precise and Tahrpup, because they are not as run over by “wizards” as those newer puppies. KISS ( Keep it simple..... ) is my goal.

As I did with the older Precise I am just in the process of removing applications out of Tahrpup, which I do not have any need for.
Precise, by the way, was the only puppy I actually had working Bluetooth with, ever since the release of “bluetooth-precise.pet”. Both ways, that is.
I really do hope to get blue-tooth working in Tahrpup.

JRBs Precise is rather unfinished and because of peasywifi, which is a pain in the neck, is not at all of interest to me.

As you said...... the most important application in puppy is its browser, but of course updating all applications to the latest version is very important too.

Updating Precise 5.7.1 once again, would be extremely nice to start with, especially because of the promise of a working blue-tooth, which would be a great bonus and should be incorporated from the start.

My sincere thanks for all your hard work for puppy and for listening to my humble opinion.

TIFTAF

[amethyst]

Okay, so the last version of Palemoon that worked out of the box with Precise is 28.15/16 then (haven't checked myself). I've been using 28.14 which I still run on newer puppys too. So apart from Precise I'm also using Bionic. Both running with the series 3 kernel of Tahr. I've been a bit disappointed with Stretch 7.5. It started out well but the more I've used it the more stability issues have come to the fore. Back to the trusted ubuntu based puppys then.

[mikewalsh]

@amethyst :-

Okay, so the last version of Palemoon that worked out of the box with Precise is 28.15/16 then (haven't checked myself). I've been using 28.14 which I still run on newer puppys too. So apart from Precise I'm also using Bionic. Both running with the series 3 kernel of Tahr. I've been a bit disappointed with Stretch 7.5. It started out well but the more I've used it the more stability issues have come to the fore. Back to the trusted ubuntu based puppys then.

Odd you should say that. Stretch did exactly the same thing for me. It started out really well, showing lots of promise.....but the more I used it, and the more things I tried doing with it, the more unstable it became for me, too.

I wouldn't like to say if that's any indication of radky's work not being 'up to snuff', as it were, or not; I seriously doubt it, since his other stuff runs really, really well. Must just be 'Stretch', because DPup "Buster" 32 - so far- is rock-solid.

Mike.

[amethyst]

@amethyst :-

Okay, so the last version of Palemoon that worked out of the box with Precise is 28.15/16 then (haven't checked myself). I've been using 28.14 which I still run on newer puppys too. So apart from Precise I'm also using Bionic. Both running with the series 3 kernel of Tahr. I've been a bit disappointed with Stretch 7.5. It started out well but the more I've used it the more stability issues have come to the fore. Back to the trusted ubuntu based puppys then.

Odd you should say that. Stretch did exactly the same thing for me. It started out really well, showing lots of promise.....but the more I used it, and the more things I tried doing with it, the more unstable it became for me, too.

I wouldn't like to say if that's any indication of radky's work not being 'up to snuff', as it were, or not; I seriously doubt it, since his other stuff runs really, really well. Must just be 'Stretch', because DPup "Buster" 32 - so far- is rock-solid.

Mike.

Yeah, well it's unfortunate about Stretch. I remember another poster also complaining about odd behaviour (some menu entries suddenly becoming unresponsive, I had that too). I also had ROX windows becoming unresponsive and freezing to a halt leading the whole system to shutdown. So of course, being used to great, stable puppys in the past, I immediately got rid of it from my system, now relegated to the eternal puppy graveyard. Life is just too short to struggle with unstable operating systems.

[TorC]

Tahrpup64 is old but still functional. ffmpeg is installed, no trouble with youtube on Firefox 60.9.0 esr. No kernel upgrade yet, but it's in the works.
IMO, those who cannot make it work have not tried hard enough.

The way things are going, I will have to upgrade later this year, sometime, however. We'll see.

[gychang]

How can I install brave browser on stock Tahrpup64 frugal install?

I am just experimenting, fossapup64 works with brave but was wondering if any easy way....

[bigpup]

Try using this Brave portable package.
viewtopic.php?p=859#p859
download, unzip, locate where you want. Click to open, click LAUNCH to start. Simple. PepperFlash updater included.

mikewalsh is very good at putting everything needed in his portable packages.
That is what a portable package is. Not dependent on a specific Puppy Linux OS version.

Any issues you may have.
Look further down in that topic for other posts.

[rockedge]

I've had success using a recent static version of ffmpeg that is downloaded and extracted to /root/my-applications and replace the stock ffmpeg with symlinks to the newer static version.
Of course it is possible to extract it anywhere else as well or just overwrite the stock versions.

These static versions that have worked are here ->
https://johnvansickle.com/ffmpeg/

[666philb]

How can I install brave browser on stock Tahrpup64 frugal install?

I am just experimenting, fossapup64 works with brave but was wondering if any easy way....

i've managed to get brave and chrome working in tahrpup64.

first off update the ppm and then install .....

binutils (needed to install newer debs)
dpkg (note this is already installed but re-installing updates it. needed to install newer debs)
xkbcommon
libnss (just the ones already installed to update them)
libgtk-3

now grab brave from github https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/releases and install
also you need a new palemoon so install this and update it http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pe ... x86_64.pet

now copy all the libs from /opt/palemoon into the brave folder in /opt

launch brave ..... brave-browser --no-sandbox --test-type
or set to run as spot

not sure if completely working just tested with a youtube video and was fine with that

[s243a]

How can I install brave browser on stock Tahrpup64 frugal install?

I am just experimenting, fossapup64 works with brave but was wondering if any easy way....

i've managed to get brave and chrome working in tahrpup64.

first off update the ppm and then install .....

binutils (needed to install newer debs)
dpkg (note this is already installed but re-installing updates it. needed to install newer debs)
xkbcommon
libnss (just the ones already installed to update them)
libgtk-3

now grab brave from github https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/releases and install
also you need a new palemoon so install this and update it http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pe ... x86_64.pet

now copy all the libs from /opt/palemoon into the brave folder in /opt

launch brave ..... brave-browser --no-sandbox --test-type
or set to run as spot

not sure if completely working just tested with a youtube video and was fine with that

Hello @666philb, I think there might be some interest in this system if you decide to release it. It would be a good starting point for a containerized or chrooted brave-browser. To get a better idea of what I'm talking about see post:
viewtopic.php?p=18486#p18486

[mikewalsh]

Hi, gang / Greg :-

I'm not entirely certain, but I believe my Chrome-portable works in Tahr64.....or did up till a year ago. I haven't really looked at Tahr64 for at least that long; not much reason to these days.

I think all I did was to upgrade the ffmpeg package with one of JvS's 'statics' (been using 'em for a while now.) Worth a try, at any rate.

I know the Iron64-portable definitely worked, and that's a pretty close imitation of Chrome, even down to looking & acting exactly the same....

Iron-portable

Chrome-portable

I gave up on the Brave-portable package a while ago; too many issues, and there's a limit to the number of packages I want to maintain. Chrome, Iron, Vivaldi, and PaleMoon (not to mention the portable-Skype and -Zoom packages).....that's quite enough to keep a body busy..!

Mike.

[amethyst]

I had a problem with video not playing with a new Palemoon browser in Precise. If I remember correctly, I did not upgrade ffmpeg but only changed a setting in about:config of Palemoon. Changed the value of media.libavcodec.allow-obsolete to true and everything worked. Worth a try.

[nbah07]

I am using jrb's tahr64 Light. I managed to install chrome v88 pet with "get_browser" found on ppm. From the readings, tells me I should consider make load a sfs instead, for perfomance - maybe next bootup with pfix=ram. Same websites doesn't choke inspiron 1525 against a Porteus-4.0-openbox 32bit firefox-esr. The notebook's resource management is way better, it doesn't heat keyboards top, etc. I use it for web browsing and office, but will get things back on track and play with niche software, data recovery for example.
I would like to request grub2-tools-extra for converting isolinux to grub2 config. Would be possible; thanks! packaged with grub2-common

PS. Besides, I've downloaded 64-bit of Bionic, Xenial, Buster, Stretch puppies/dogs for some hopping time, but I can't see why to move out from Tahrpup 64 light_jrb.

found also a perl script for the converting task: [ perlmonks , org / ?node_id=928102 ]

[bigpup]

From the readings, tells me I should consider make a sfs instead

that is just info about another way to package and run a program.
There is no need to do it if you have it installed and running OK.

SFS packaged programs are programs packaged in the form of a SFS file.
Everything is in this one file.
Puppy Linux runs as a layered file system.
In Puppy Linux to use a SFS package of a program.
You load the SFS package into the running layered file system, not install it.
It appears to be installed, but it is just added as another layer.
Unload the SFS package and it just removes that specific layer.