Which Puppy Linux for a beginner?

[twigboy]

I'm looking over the offerings, which version, and perused the FAQ, looking for an answer to a simple question (it seems simple to me anyway):

• Which flavor, which of the collection of Linux distributions, should I choose?

I don't see neatly displayed or easily found the requirements for each or why one might be better than another for me. I have, for instance, an old AMD 64-bit Turion system with 2Gb RAM. The FAQ says:
Q: Come on! I’m not your beta tester. Tell me where to start at least.
A: Start with the latest Puppy.

So I see the Bookworm version (32 and 64 bit) -- that's the latest, right. Will that work with what I have? I also see listed the S15Pup64, Bionicpup64, Tahrpup (2?), Slacko (2?), as well as Lxpup and X-Slacko. Aren't these too old or are they still valid with updates/upgrades? https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/screenshots.html

[FloraMae]

Generally speaking, any puppy will work. I don't have enough experience with the puppies to offer specific suggestions for low ram situations, but I will say make sure to setup swap if you only have 2GB of ram.

To get an idea on age and end of life (EOL), check the distros the pups are loosely based on. For Bookworm that would be Debian Bookworm which is Debian 12. According to a search, Debian 12 EOL is June 30th, 2028.

For something like Bionic (Ubuntu), you can check out something like this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
to get an idea of EOL.

Generally, older will use less ram, but older is also closer to EOL, so just have to try them out until one works for you the way you want. I so far have settled on Bookworm because I'm more familiar with Debian but I do try other puppies off and on to see how they are.

This is where frugal installs to a hard drive can be useful. You might can also use something like Ventoy to try multiple distros easier and can be used to install to a disk. https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html (also https://portableapps.com/apps/utilities/ventoy-portable if on Windows).

[bigpup]

Puppy versions are produced by someone that wants to produce one.

It is up to that specific Puppy version developer what is in it for programs, features, general operation, etc.....

So there is always going to be several versions to choose from.

Each one slightly different from the others.

No one controls what Puppy version gets developed.

Puppy Linux and this forum do not stop providing older versions of Puppy.
Really, old hardware may not be supported in the very newest versions of Puppy.
An older version of Puppy may be needed.

So to answer your question.

Your hardware seems to meet minimum requirements for any of the latest versions of Puppy Linux.

Right now for a new to Puppy user.

I suggest you try BookwormPup64 10.0.6
It has the latest updates and features of Puppy Linux.

What Puppy version to use is really determined by you just trying a few of them and see what you like the best.

If you look at the topic for a specific Puppy version.
The date it was developed and released is a good clue for how new it is.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Puppy Linux does not do running updates like Windows and other operating systems do.

Usually if things get to really needing to be updated.

Someone will produce a new version of Puppy which will have the updates.

Individual programs you must just update the program if that is really needed.
(if it is not broken do not try to fix it applies here)

Web browsers are about the only programs that seem to constantly need updating.
They usually have an internal update feature to do that.

Some info here that is good read for a new to Puppy user:
viewforum.php?f=184

[OscarTalks]

• Which flavor should I choose?

Q: Tell me where to start at least.
A: Start with the latest Puppy.

My suggestion is to start with BookwormPup64
Stick with it for a while and try to resolve any issues you encounter (ask for advice here if need be)
Only if you find you are unable to get it working should you then begin to look at others

[wizard]

@twigboy

AMD 64-bit Turion

Is this a single core or a dual core (x2)? Will make a big difference.

You have a low power CPU and a small amount of ram, here is where I'd start:

F96CE_4, a newer 64bit distro with good memory management. I have this running on a low power dual core, 2gb ram
viewforum.php?f=197

You might also try Vanilla Dpup 9.3.x. I have not run this one for a while, but @dimkr is a top notch developer
https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/

If your CPU is a single core, then both of the above will probably be poor choices.

Regardless of which distro you choose, you should run: pfix=nocopy in your grub kernel line to conserve ram and speed up booting. If you can Increase the ram it will help performance.

wizard

[bigpup]

2GB of RAM is enough to operate with.

As long as you only run one program at a time.

I run Puppy Linux on computers with 2GB of RAM with no issues.

But when I stop using a program I completely close it.
Before starting another program.

Never try to have more than one program running at any time.

This really depends on the size of the program and how much RAM it uses to load into memory and run.

[twigboy]

@twigboy

AMD 64-bit Turion

Is this a single core or a dual core (x2)? Will make a big difference.

You have a low power CPU and a small amount of ram, here is where I'd start:

F96CE_4, a newer 64bit distro with good memory management. I have this running on a low power dual core, 2gb ram
viewforum.php?f=197

You might also try Vanilla Dpup 9.3.x. I have not run this one for a while, but @dimkr is a top notch developer
https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/

If your CPU is a single core, then both of the above will probably be poor choices.

Regardless of which distro you choose, you should run: pfix=nocopy in your grub kernel line to conserve ram and speed up booting. If you can Increase the ram it will help performance.

wizard

Thank you very much. Somewhat limited success, mostly not.

Yes, this is dual core X2 version. Tried F96CE and Dpup, Bookworm, as well as the Void version, and I believe the S15 but for mixed reasons none would work: won't boot (64 or 32 bit) or won't run wifi or trackpad. (I did put F96CE on another computer).

So, I have the 64 bit bionic on this AMD computer, but frankly, it needs a new web browser but doesn't appear to be a way to update. In my boot line it already has pfix=fsck. Shouldn't I keep that or is there a way to add the pfix=nocopy? nocopy gave about another 300+Mb available. Alas, if the browser won't update (firefox) I will hate to not use this laptop because it has the absolute best screen -- bright, even, colors, crisp and clear. Perhaps I'll look into turning it into a standalone display.

[wizard]

@twigboy

it already has pfix=fsck.

Change to: pfix=nocopy,fsck
That's a comma above.

Try one of @mikewalsh portable browsers from here: viewtopic.php?t=5104
Firefox or Chromium do OK on my system. Chromium uses a little less ram.

wizard

[bigpup]

This is something you need to read:
viewtopic.php?t=1819

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tried F96CE and Dpup, Bookworm, as well as the Void version, and I believe the S15 but for mixed reasons none would work: won't boot (64 or 32 bit) or won't run wifi or trackpad.

If Bionicpup64 is working OK.

Then I do not understand why these other versions give you issues.
Especially booting issues.

For WIFI and trackpad.
All of them are going to have slightly different ways to set these up.
You may not understand how to do it.

You need to understand one thing about posting on this forum.

We always need to know the specific Puppy version you are using.
Example:
BookwormPup tells us nothing useful.
Is it bookwormPup64 or 32
Is it BookwormPup64 10.0.4 or 10.0.6 (this matters, because it tells us for sure what version)

Best to give us the complete name of the Puppy version ISO.

[twigboy]

For WIFI and trackpad.
All of them are going to have slightly different ways to set these up.
You may not understand how to do it.

You need to understand one thing about posting on this forum.

We always need to know the specific Puppy version you are using.
Example:
BookwormPup tells us nothing useful.
Is it bookwormPup64 or 32
Is it BookwormPup64 10.0.4 or 10.0.6 (this matters, because it tells us for sure what version)

Best to give us the complete name of the Puppy version ISO.

Thanks. This is why I consider myself still a beginner -- I don't understand how to do the different fiddly ways to get things working if they aren't already.

And fair, vague mentions "it didn't work" doesn't help, so I'll try to start a running list here:
Bookworm 10.0.6 64 -- doesn't have wifi, no interface. Uses out-of-the-box (live usb) 1.1GB RAM (conky); less than 700mb available (listing from free).
Vanilla Dpup 64. Wouldn’t finish booting.
Dpup Wayland 64. Bt works (the first to do that) but no wifi. Only about 450 mb available
Retro 64. No wifi device or bt. 1.2Gb remaining
Voidpup 64. No trackpad. No wifi device. No BT. 1gb remaining
S15 64. No trackpad. No wifi device. 1.14ish gb remaining. No BT.
puppy-linux-collection

[twigboy]

Web browsers are about the only programs that seem to constantly need updating.
They usually have an internal update feature to do that.

Some info here that is good read for a new to Puppy user:
viewforum.php?f=184

I found that I could install the portable version of Firefox, and it updated (115.11). So I'll stick with BionicPup64 for a while longer.

If the Vanilla Dpup Wayland would have more available RAM, I'd probably go with that, if only to get BT, but it also doesn't have the wifi device. I would like to have BT working in Bionic-- tried the Janky thing and this pBluetooth.
viewtopic.php?t=1135 -- shows my headphones but won't connect.

And if there is a way to turn off the trackpad scrolling between workspaces, I'd like to do that too. It is a small trackpad and I am constantly unintentionally on the scroll part. It's an annoying device -- maybe I'l cover it.

[mikewalsh]

@twigboy :-

Re: the "wifi issue". My guess is it's a firmware problem; the kernel probably has the driver for your device, but Puppy isn't providing the necessary firmware to allow the two to "talk' to each other correctly.

Some info would help here. Can you run Pup-SysInfo for us (Menu->System->Pup-SysInfo system information); tab->Devices, then 'Network'.......and copy/paste the output in your next post, please?

(@ozsouth may be able to advise better than I can, but I'm pretty sure this will be at the root of the problem).

TIA.

Mike.

[ozsouth]

@twigboy - as Mike says above, firmware is the usual suspect & also need to check wifi adapter, via following:

Would you please run some tests to help us determine what driver/firmware you may need.
Open a terminal (console), please maximise it, then run the following (& post outputs here):

lspci -nn | grep etwork (that starts with a lowercase L, with pipe symbol in middle - often shift & \ keys)

and later,

dmesg | grep irmware

[mikeslr]

Let me disagree with those who've recommended the latest Puppy. Devs have to decide what to include keeping in mind what computers at that time use, how much space it will take to include something, and how much RAM will be required when that's copied into it. There is now available a 400 Mb fdrv.sfs which could be swapped for your current version which is not likely to have the firmware Bookworm's creator --with new computers in mind-- left out. That you can doesn't mean you should. The slogan used to be 'Newer Pups for newer computers; older Pups for older computers'.

Don't worry too much about what other Linux's consider End of Life. What that means is they no longer produce 'bug and security patches' and new software for it and archive the old software making it difficult (but not impossible) to obtain. Puppys have no EOL. The only new software you're likely to need are web-browsers, and some of Mikewalsh's portables can be used with Xenialpup64. Ubuntu Xenial Xerus was 'released' in 2016 and reached EOL in 2021. Mike's other portables are as likely to be functional under Puppys that old. Mike's complete list: https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 734#p48734

No even the challenge of maintaining security is that difficult. (1) Be careful what web-sites you access. Privacy and Security addons/extensions are available for all web-browsers. Use one or more to delete all unwanted accumulations before closing your web-browser. (2) Run web-browsers as 'spot', a limited user without permission to access any folder other than its own: rox can access that folder to transfer just the files you want out of it. (3) If you're booting from a USB-Key you're halfway there. By default nothing is written to storage unless you execute a Save. Keep/copy all datafiles on storage (not in /root/my-documents). When you reboot/shutdown Puppy everything then in RAM is deleted. Don't save unless you have a good reason. Download --but don't install-- debs and pets. Store them. Reboot and install and execute a Save before going online. User Mikewalsh's portable web-browsers: they aren't installed. You can run Puppys located on a hard-drive the same way, see https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 183#p97183

I recommend wizard's Friendly-Fossa, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=4681 for a 'newby'. It won't have any difficulty using t'other Mike's portables, and Puppy Package Manager can still access Ubuntu's Focal Fossa repositories. Wizard included many features to help a 'newby' transition to Puppys. If your computer has any difficulty with Friendly Fossa you might want to try BionicPup64-Revival, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 666#p90666. I unabashedly stole much of wizard's hard work and included it. Knowing that Ubuntu Bionic Beaver's repositories were about to be archived, I included 'the kitchen sink' in Bionicpup64-Revival and created a repository of other applications. AFAIK, many of t'other Mike's portables will function. Firefox and Pale Moon web-browsers do.

[twigboy]

@twigboy :-

Some info would help here. Can you run Pup-SysInfo for us (Menu->System->Pup-SysInfo system information); tab->Devices, then 'Network'.......and copy/paste the output in your next post, please?

Mike.

▶—— Network Devices ——◀

Ethernet controller [0200]: Marvell Technology Group Ltd. 88E8038 PCI-E Fast Ethernet Controller [11ab:4352] (rev 14)
• Kernel Driver: sky2
• Memory Used: 56.00 KB
• Path: /lib/modules/4.19.23/kernel/drivers/net/ethernet/marvell/sky2.ko
• Driver Version: 1.30
• Description: Marvell Yukon 2 Gigabit Ethernet driver

Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43228 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4359]
• Kernel Driver: bcma-pci-bridge

[twigboy]

@twigboy - as Mike says above, firmware is the usual suspect & also need to check wifi adapter, via following:

Would you please run some tests to help us determine what driver/firmware you may need.
Open a terminal (console), please maximise it, then run the following (& post outputs here):

lspci -nn | grep etwork (that starts with a lowercase L, with pipe symbol in middle - often shift & \ keys)

and later,

dmesg | grep irmware

Code: Select all

root# lspci -nn | grep etwork
05:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43228 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4359]

Code: Select all

root# lspci -nn | grep etwork
05:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Inc. and subsidiaries BCM43228 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4359]root# dmesg | grep irmware
acpi PNP0A03:00: [Firmware Info]: MMCONFIG for domain 0000 [bus 00-0a] only partially covers this bridge
[Firmware Bug]: _BCQ is used instead of _BQC
bluetooth hci0: Direct firmware load for brcm/BCM20702A1-0a5c-21f1.hcd failed with error -2
b43-phy0: Loading firmware version 666.2 (2011-02-23 01:15:07)
b43-phy0: Loading firmware version 666.2 (2011-02-23 01:15:07)
b43-phy0: Loading firmware version 666.2 (2011-02-23 01:15:07)
b43-phy0: Loading firmware version 666.2 (2011-02-23 01:15:07)

[ozsouth]

@twigboy - ah, you have 1 of the 'nasty 10' broadcom chips, needing a kernel-specific wl driver. I've made many.
See: viewtopic.php?p=10900#p10900
Install after appropriate download, by clicking on .pet in filemanager & when installed, try to connect.

For bluetooth, you are missing a firmware file: BCM20702A1-0a5c-21f1.hcd
Is in .pet attached below. Install after download, by clicking on .pet in filemanager

Wifi & Bluetooth should then be available - may have to reboot (creating a savefile or savefolder to retain software) to activate.

As for your touchpad, kernel may not be configured for it. Let's see how the first 2 issues go.

As for a suggested pup to try, F96-CE4 (kernel 6.0.12-FP) would be a good one to try, using .pets I recommended.
see: https://rockedge.org/kernels/data/ISO/F ... 6-CE_4.iso

[twigboy]

@twigboy - ah, you have 1 of the 'nasty 10' broadcom chips, needing a kernel-specific wl driver. I've made many.
See: viewtopic.php?p=10900#p10900
Install after appropriate download, by clicking on .pet in filemanager & when installed, try to connect.

For bluetooth, you are missing a firmware file: BCM20702A1-0a5c-21f1.hcd
Is in .pet attached below. Install after download, by clicking on .pet in filemanager

Wifi & Bluetooth should then be available - may have to reboot (creating a savefile or savefolder to retain software) to activate.

As for your touchpad, kernel may not be configured for it. Let's see how the first 2 issues go.

As for a suggested pup to try, F96-CE4 (kernel 6.0.12-FP) would be a good one to try, using .pets I recommended.
see: https://rockedge.org/kernels/data/ISO/F ... 6-CE_4.iso

I now have regrets. I went to that page, got the bionicpup64 pet (k4.19.23) to match the kernel I'm using. Ran it, locked my computer, no response, except the trackpad would still move the pointer. Hard restart was the only way to get it going again. Lost the network card, no device to configure. Lost the trackpad, connected a wired mouse. Lost the video card, even ran xorgwizard. Uninstalled the pet. No scuccess. I guess I'll save my files and eventually find something else that will run on this machine.

[ozsouth]

@twigboy - well, that's a first. Been downloaded hundreds (thousands?) of times & haven't had that happen - very occasionally it just doesn't work. Sorry that happened to you. As I said before, that wireless is a problematic chip in Linux.

[mistfire]

@twigboy

Did you try QuickPup64?

[twigboy]

@twigboy

Did you try QuickPup64?

No, but I will soon. Thanks.

[twigboy]

@twigboy - well, that's a first. Been downloaded hundreds (thousands?) of times & haven't had that happen - very occasionally it just doesn't work. Sorry that happened to you. As I said before, that wireless is a problematic chip in Linux.

So I started up live F96-CE4, popped in the new pet (k5.4.53), and voila, a network card working. Easiest network card setup ever. Thanks. Got it running but it is still sluggish and runs out of RAM quickly where the old didn't -- like one or two web pages. So it has the Firefox ESR that updates, working trackpad, and BT is working too. And somehow I flubbed up the personal storage which is limited to about 1Gb using a tar.gz file -- I'll figure that out later. I'll see what I can do with this.

[bigpup]

When booted and just stating the browser.
Is it set to use the Firefox home page?
If yes.
Make some other web site your home page.
Their home page is constantly downloading and changing what is on it.

Go into Firefox settings

Try adjusting or turning off anything that seems it would need to use RAM.
Some of this runs in the background all the time and eats up RAM.

Set Firefox update to only check for updates, but let you decide when to do it.
It will pop up a message that an update is available, but not download and install until you tell it to do the update.
If not set this way.
it will download the update and try to install it as you are using and going to web sites.

[wizard]

@twigboy

runs out of RAM quickly

Be sure you are using pfix=nocopy in your grub kernel line. On my system Chromium Portable uses a little less ram. Also make sure you don't have a swap file on your drive, otherwise F96 won't set up the zram.

ln the end, there's just so much you can get in 2gb of ram and browsers are ram hogs.

wizard

[greengeek]

Also make sure you don't have a swap file on your drive, otherwise F96 won't set up the zram.

Does this advice also relate to users who have a swap partition? Or just specific to swap file?
(Don't really know what F96 does with zram - i am wondering if it is similar to what most Puppies do with pseudo RAM when they boot in Live mode with a save partition present))

[bigpup]

Zram does not use RAM, but changes how RAM is setup to use.

It sets up the RAM to work a special way.

Both as normal RAM operations and as swap functions.

Plus the way it sets up RAM, makes it work like there is more RAM than is physically there.

Need to read about how it works:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zram

[greengeek]

Plus the way it sets up RAM, makes it work like there is more RAM than is physically there.

Need to read about how it works:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zram

I can't see how it makes the system work as if there is more RAM than is actually there. I would suggest that zram potentially speeds up a system that already has plenty if RAM but I think it will make the OP's situation worse. He needs MORE ram (or virtual RAM) - not FASTER ram.
I would recommend he retain a swap partition on a fast device.

[Clarity]

Hello @twigboy

I have a sneaking suspicion that you do not have SWAP partition or a SWAPFILE allocated on your system drive.

This is a major problem for your PC and the distros or Windows that you use on it. (Windows uses a paging file/device).

If you allocate either file/partition, your lockups will stop. I find it is a good excellent practice to have a SWAP-PAGE partition on EVERY PC I have ever used to avoid some of what you've experienced in lockups. There is NO harm to have one and NO harm in system stability. All forum distros KNOW what to do when they see a linux swap partition on the system drive at boot time. The SWAP partition should be the size of your RAM. In your case it should be 2GB. If you change RAM you should resize your SWAP size. Additional sodimm RAM upgrades for that laptop is dirt-cheap/give-aways assuming the motherboard allows so.

If you choose to create one, the terminal "free" command becomes your friend! It shows what's going on with your RAM.

Hope this helps.

[wizard]

@greengeek

Does this advice also relate to users who have a swap partition? Or just specific to swap file?

Don't know, but will test and report back. Do know that on my low power systems Puppy's with zram perform better than using a swap file.

wizard

[dimkr]

Zram does not use RAM, but changes how RAM is setup to use.

It sets up the RAM to work a special way.

Both as normal RAM operations and as swap functions.

zram is just a compressed region of memory. You can use it in various use cases where you want to read and write data that doesn't fit in RAM unless it's compressed.

Puppy's init script uses it for swap if you don't have a swap file or partition. When you're running low on memory, rarely used memory gets moved to swap and it's moved back to RAM on access. If swap is on a zram device, this data is still kept in RAM (instead of disk) but in compressed form, so your 2 GB of RAM can fit more than 2 GB worth of data.

Swap in a zram device can be many times faster than swap on disk because more often than not, reading from disk is slower than decompressing a compressed chunk of data in RAM. Puppy configures swap so it's used only when running really low on memory, so compression and decompression begin and increase CPU usage only in emergency situations.