With the Recent Quittings and Resignations......

[rockedge]

I deleted 2 Topics just now. Why?

Because I feel disheartened and defeated. All of you must be a lot smarter, more caring, better informed and educated than myself because these Topics made me more upset at what people said to each other than the subject the topics were about.

Leaving the topics open and free...criticism......wanting to close it...criticism.....

we have water in the holds and the engines are sputtering here at Puppy Linux and we are down to 1 maybe 2 developers but blah blah blah about a topic none of us will EVER FIX.

This makes me really sad because it looks like the ship is going down. I guess I'll try to see if we can get some headway and put the bow into the wind.

[rockedge]

The declining quality of Puppy releases and Puppy development practices

Right from woof-CE on GitHub......great.

[d-pupp]

@rockedge
I don't know if this will help but I feel the same way. The world is spinning in a bad direction. It seems like you can't win no matter what you do or don't do. So all you can do is your best.

I agree with you it wasn't the topics that were the problem it was the way people were treating one another and that to seems to be world wide and getting worse. It use to be that we could agree to disagree...Not so much anymore.

Hang in there.

[dimkr]

The declining quality of Puppy releases and Puppy development practices

Right from woof-CE on GitHub......great.

For those who want the source of this quote:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... sions/4209

[wizard]

@dimkr

Over the last couple of years I've come to appreciate your tremendous skills, talent and contributions. I hope you will reconsider and return in the future.

Gratefully
wizard

[wizard]

@rockedge

Because I feel disheartened and defeated

Rock, I'm not sure why, this was a topic participated in by a TINY fraction of the forum members. I thought the participation analysis done by @proebler was most telling and hope he will publish that again here.

There have been multiple members suggesting limiting the scope of the forum, and this event was a prime example of the destructive effect of such discussions here. Divisive and inflammatory topics have no benefit to Puppy Linux.

@Clarity suggested that the Admins and Mods should be the only ones involved in defining what and what is not acceptable. I second that suggestion.

The ship is fine and you're still the Captain.

Thanks
wizard

[fredx181]

There have been multiple members suggesting limiting the scope of the forum, and this event was a prime example of the destructive effect of such discussions here. Divisive and inflammatory topics have no benefit to Puppy Linux.

@Clarity suggested that the Admins and Mods should be the only ones involved in defining what and what is not acceptable. I second that suggestion.

Let me agree and disagree (and finally perhaps we agree to disagree )
Shut down the off-topic area ? I disagree (and probably many others too, I guess), and IMO it's too easy to say "just throw away what may cause problems".
Sure: "the Admins and Mods should be the only ones involved in defining what and what is not acceptable" but some trouble could have been avoided if there was better communication between the Mods with each other (at least with @rockedge) before making such a drastic decision by locking a complete thread.

Anyway, Erik, you did fine by opening a poll, and the democratic decision was to delete the thread so you did all you could

[bigpup]

Nothing new is going on.

The only one that was a constant developer of Puppy Linux was barry K.
Even he left Puppy Linux and turned it over to others to continue.
But he left it in a such way, that it could still be continued.

01micko was suppose to takeover the job, of having the final say, in what was Puppy Linux, and keeping up the legal requirements of the name.
But he seems to be doing nothing with Puppy Linux. (maybe some small part of Woof-CE the build system).
So I am not sure anyone is doing, what he was tasked to do.

People come and go and will continue to do that.
That has always happened in the years Puppy Linux has been around.
Nothing new!

I think it is more about people getting tired of working on Puppy Linux.
Maybe want to do something else.
No one here, does this work on Puppy Linux for any reason, other than they just want to do it.
To everyone, this is a hobby, not a paying job, that they have to do!

There are more people involved in Puppy Linux, than I have ever seen, since version 3, when I started using Puppy Linux.

Look at the different sections of this forum and all the different Puppy or Puppy like versions, being offered.

Puppy Linux development is alive and well!

I do sometimes wonder, if some of the efforts to reinvent the Puppy wheel, would be better spent, trying to just polish it to a blinding sparkle
Example of polishing the wheel:
Putting apt in Puppy was long overdo.
Giving full support to booting on UEFI computers.

[HerrBert]

I recall beeing offended in the german forum a while ago...
All i can say is, i repeat: political and religious opinions don't belong to an objective forum. If you offer a platform for this kind of discussion you may have to expect other than political correctness.

[bigpup]

Only because the statement was made.

Rockedge and the moderators of the forum are all together on what should and will be done to moderate this forum.
He has made it very clear, on what he expects us to do, and is fully behind us, doing it.
He has given us the freedom to make decisions, on what to do.

there is a moderators section of the forum, that only rockedge and moderators can access.
Issues do come up and differences on what should be done are discussed.
But the bottom line is always what rockedge decides!!

Deleting spam, is the only thing the moderators do not hesitate in doing

[fredx181]

there is a moderators section of the forum, that only rockedge and moderators can access.
Issues do come up and differences on what should be done are discussed.

I haven't seen any talking there ("Admin's and Moderators") about the "...hamas..." topic.

[bigpup]

I guess none of the moderators or rockedge thought it needed to be discussed.

What one of the moderators did was OK by them.

[fredx181]

I guess none of the moderators or rockedge thought it needed to be discussed.

What one of the moderators did was OK by them.

I see, silence = agreement .

[bigpup]

I guess none of the moderators or rockedge thought it needed to be discussed.

What one of the moderators did was OK by them.

I see, silence = agreement .

Go look at the log, see who actually deleted it, and the reasons why.
.
.

[Clarity]

Speaking as NON-moderators and for users who are here because of technology, I offer one-last idea for this forum's direction (in light of the several others I have presented for thought).

Old moderators may agree with this idea, too.

Remove Off-topic for a period of 6-months. AND during that time, monitor the impact of that particular action.

I think if you are willing, you will find something surprising.

@rockedge I, for one, have been 'PROUD" of the efforts you have done overall in this forum. For a fleeting moment, you might agonized with this, but, like all unplesant things, we make changes and move-on. Do not be discouraged as you values to everyone here is noted! I wont go into the many-many reasons I post this to you. Smile!: As some (many) of us are standng with you!

[dancytron]

All I'll say is that there are literally thousands of places on the internet to argue about the Middle East, some where you can interact with people with real world experience on the ground.

There is only 1 place to develop Puppy Linux and only about 10 places where people understand that layered file systems are the correct way to set up personal computers.

[rockedge]

thought it needed to be discussed.

I thought we already did that.

Go look at who actually deleted it and the reasons why.

I did. Because I had to pay too much attention to it and it became burdensome for me and the risk I alone would face if legally challenged is too high.

Already have been threatened before.

There are many professionally run social media sites and forums for these serious discussions, this just happens not to be one of those.

This forum is about Puppy Linux, Kennel Linux, DebianDogs and VanillaDpups. Frugally installed layered operating systems is the name of the game.

[proebler]

Rock, I'm not sure why, this was a topic participated in by a TINY fraction of the forum members. I thought the participation analysis done by @proebler was most telling and hope he will publish that again here.

this was the result of the analysis of Topic pages 1,5,10,15 .... 55 :
Number of posts 337, posted by 23 members
172 posts (51%) by just 3 members
205 posts (60%) by just 4 members
237 posts (70%) by just 5 members
258 posts (76%) by just 6 members

[wiak]

All I'll say is that there are literally thousands of places on the internet to argue about the Middle East, some where you can interact with people with real world experience on the ground.

There is a difference if it was the case that any of us decided to go to one of these "thousands of places on the internet" for any such off-topic social discussion: many of us do not 'know' any of the members of such sites very well since we never use them. This forum has been running for a very long time and thus we somewhat know many other members here - that off-topic section allows us to talk with people we thus know, like on a coffee break. I imagine that is one of the reasons why @fredx181 does not support the removal of off-topic, and I am also in two-minds about it. The truly-off-topic threads are bound to get heated sometimes though - we are human beings with opinions that often differ greatly.

[Grey]

Personally, I don't understand what's going on again. Even I had calmed down a long time ago, although I kind of belonged to that "very TINY fraction". Two themes were deleted and a new one was created to suffer. Plus, there is still a second topic in the Announcements.

Deleted and fine. What's so special about it. We are not sadomasochists

[wiak]

The main issue, as I see it, is indeed concern about potential legal matters.

[ozsouth]

@dimkr - Thankyou for your excellent contributions. Most of us don't have the ability to do a fraction of what you've done. I apologise if my obtuse methods (which stem from my limited ability) have in any way pressured you. Hopefully you can keep Vanilla Dpup going well.

@rockedge - Seems another difficult season is upon us. Please make whatever decisions you need to make the workload bearable. I appreciate what you do. Thankyou.

[dogcat]

Thanks for your volunteering to help mr. dimkr and I hope you have great success in your next endeavor.

dimkr has been indicating for a while he was not a permanent fixture and would eventually stop working on woofCE. That you people think he is leaving because of a thread he was participating in is foolish, if he had such thin skin as you guys are suggesting I think he would have left a long time before now due to the aggression displayed toward him by wiak and rockedge when he first showed up in this forum. He was not welcomed with open arms if you can remember back that far.

As far as concerning an off-topic area, by all means lets reinvent the wheel and put as many corners and edges on it so it can't roll unless it has the blessings of the most vociferous complainers.

John Murga had it right with the off-topic section, if you can remember back that far. A little section at the very bottom of the forum that you had to be logged in to even see. But the same people that had issues with that part of Murga's forum have reappeared here with the same disregard for everyone but their own wants.

P.S. I hate this markup language LOL!

I

[rockedge]

I hate this markup language LOL!

Definitely BBCode isn't the best solution always, so also regular Markdown is included and can be used instead.

That you people think he is leaving because of a thread he was participating in is foolish

Never did, I knew he was slowing down on woof-CE for some time now. He has been mentioning it before so never once thought this had anything to do with any threads.

[Clarity]

@dogcat This is NOT the OLD FORUM. That forum started before the age of Social Media, today.

This forum was started and its structure has progressed significantly from the old forum.

The topic, at hand, is what is best for THIS "Puppy Linux Discussion Forum"

It is my understanding that this is a modernization forward from the OLD.

Hope this comment does not offend as this post, by me, is NOT intended for such.

[rockedge]

The main issue, as I see it, is indeed concern about potential legal matters.

Yes this is the main reason. Potential legal issues and pressure from the host provider better avoided.

[dogcat]

The main issue, as I see it, is indeed concern about potential legal matters.

Yes this is the main reason. Potential legal issues and pressure from the host provider better avoided.

I see a different main issue for the forum. That is the potential to be attacked by people that wish to shut down all free speech on the internet in the way the old Murga forum was attacked that affected this forum. Cancel culture and the rewriting of history is currently happening everywhere. I had to stick my mom-n-pop site behind Cloudflare due to the attacks.

You already had to get a new hosting provider at least once due to that. Big PITA dealing with that cost and shuffling around. But my view is as a user, not the site owner. In reality there are few directions you can turn and only you can decide which is best for what you believe in.

Thanks for hosting.

[Clarity]

@dogcat

... That is the potential to be attacked by people that wish to shut down all free speech on the internet in the way the old Murga forum was attacked that affected this forum. ...

I strongly disagree with this statement and the concept you are pushing.

This is some sort of notion that others should be allowed to go anywhere and say anything you feel you want to.

This site doesn't publish such in its mission. Its support is really defined in its title and is further supported in the limited literature of purpose.

This post by me, a mere member like yourself, probably wont sway your position, but, maybe in looking at this site, it will help

[mistfire]

Here's my two cents here.

Puppy was to suppose to be progressive yet supports legacy hardware. However the development got stuck on its. The goal of supporting circa 90's and 2000's hardware is no longer worth it on this year 2024. Since most legacy computers still used was in 2010's. Maybe it's time to move forward and change the target computer support. Also, there are many unmerged Pull Requests on woof-ce. Failing to review and merge sometimes disappoints contributors and abandoned the project.

Sometimes some puppy core scripts are cryptic (especially the initrd init script) and hard to improve and analyze.

If you want to make Puppy better. Here is one of my take

• Improve Out-of-the-Box experience

• Improve package management and SFS loading

• Improve bluetooth support since bluetooth speakers were all at rage

• Improve modern hardware support

[bigpup]

Puppy versions have already moved to supporting very new computer hardware.
Any version that is using the series 6 Linux kernel is providing that support.

For sure the newer versions of Puppy handle basic setup very much better than the older versions do.

Package management.
I do not think is ever going to be 100% perfect. About as close to perfect is what is offered in the Additional Software section of this forum.
Adding apt to newest versions of Puppy is well needed, but even it can have issues.
Puppy big issue with software, is not having a single repository of software, specifically compiled for a specific Puppy version.
Welcome to Linux software

Improve Out-of-the-Box experience
Not sure how much more could be done, unless you make Puppy work exactly like Windows or a MAC
Make all the programs look like the same programs in Windows or MAC.
The first time startup settings, seems about as hand holding and simple, as you can make it.
Course it has help, but we know.
People do not need to read no stinking help!

Go do a fresh install of Windows 10 or 11 and still tell me Puppy is hard to use out-of-the box.

But sure tweaking is always good to keep looking for.