Austere browsers for modern websites?

[dogle]

Faced recently with lots of ‘browser not supported’ messages and freezeups on my now-dated Palemoon, it’s time for me to grasp the nettle and move on.

Mike’s terrific work has offered us a host of portable browsers:
viewtopic.php?t=5104

However, my own browsing needs are somewhat unusual and quite limited, so I shall be very grateful for any steers in the right direction for choice of best candidates for these.

Most of my online time is spent reading, and I really don’t need (or even want) video and audio facilities, or any ‘social media’ .... what I do need is:

- decent security for financial transactions

- good privacy and garbage-suppression means

- suitability for old machines with no more than 4GB RAM, and perhaps less ( 32-bit capability would be ideal, but that’s getting to be a big ask now ).

I’ve never been keen on Firefox, but see some appreciative comments here recently on Brave - might that be a good place for me to go for a first shot?

[pp4mnklinux]

Hi, you can receive thousands of suggestion about what is the best browser, mine is try, try and try....because you must find not the best, but the best for you.

viewtopic.php?t=8668

Hope it helps,

________________

REMEMBER:- the best browser for Puppy Linux depends on your personal preferences and needs. It is recommended to try out a few of these browsers to see which one works best for you.

[mikewalsh]

@dogle :-

Brave's 64-bit only, I'm afraid....

Mike.

[bigpup]

What exact version of Pale Moon?

now-dated Palemoon

Seems to indicate you are not updating Pale Moon.

Give me a link to some web site where it is an issue using Pale Moon.
I want to see if it is an issue for me using the latest version of Pale Moon.

What specific Puppy version are you using?

[mikeslr]

You're probably better off with firefox or firefox-esr as current 32-bit versions are still available and can be updated (as long as mozilla or someone publishes newer versions). There are many configurations and addons to enhance the privacy and security they provide OOTB. Look in the Additional Software Section>Browsers & Internet Section for Mikewalsh's portables. I wrote this recipe for 'hardening' firefox, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 203#p19203 a little more than two years ago. So apply discretion regarding the suggested Addons. There are now alternatives which may be better.

Chromium (the test-bed for Chrome and 'Clones') went '64-bit-Only' two years ago*. But you may find that Mikewalsh's 32-bit portable Iron, available from here, https://mega.nz/folder/rDhWTb6R#tc5D8vz ... r/HSp2AIBb will still be acceptable to the Websites you frequent. OOTB it has configurations almost identical to Ungoogled-Chromium. Added security and privacy can be obtained with extensions.

Iron32 Addons.png (142.5 KiB) Viewed 1679 times

I'm posting from it now running Bionicpup32. It will run under Puppys as old as xenialpup32; maybe tahrpup32.

If you have to 'go 64bit', I recommend the 64-bit version of Iron for the reasons given above. While Brave has now received the recommendation of the Slant community, it does receive profits from advertising if you follow the links provided by its search engine to its preferred clients. Using it, I find that sometimes the websites providing the most relevant information I'm seeking get buried.

Slimjet is alternative 'Chromium clone' --less gimmicky than Vivaldi. Both can use the same Extensions as noted above. Again, mikewalsh has provided portables.

He has also provided a portable for Ungoogled-Chormium. Only 64-bit. It's publisher's objective is privacy. But while possible, it's a PITA to add extensions. Hence, my preference for Iron.

The only draw-backs regarding Iron and Slimjet don't detract from your objectives. They have to be run-as-spot under Puppys employing pulse-audio in order to produce sound.

* Edit: Seems I was mistaken. See my follow-up post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 852#p88852

[rockedge]

Give me a link to some web site where it is an issue using Pale Moon.

Login at cvs.com

Or paying a bridge toll in NYC

www.tollsbymailny.com

[pp4mnklinux]

http://www.tollsbymailny.com/

Slimjet 39 the same problem

FF 112.0.2 the same problem

chrome... opera....

So the problem could be this page... I think

Have a nice day.-

[rockedge]

@pp4mnklinux The site will not allow certain IP addresses it seems. I used Firefox last night to pay the toll for the Whitestone Bridge in New York City. Palemoon will see a page that reports an error has occurred. Polyfill extension might help but a switch to FF or Opera works.....but I am in Connecticut 50 miles from the bridge so the IP is accepted.

Believe me the site works......New York City wants it's money and they don't play nice if they don't get it.

They also except cash or check in the regular mail or by telephone. Even can hand deliver it.... Somewhere they might mention only Chrome or Firefox

[mikeslr]

Well, I'm not sure who else we have to thank, but Thanks to peebee there are newer versions of 32-bit Chromium and Ungoogled-Chrome available from here, https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... /chromium/.

[8Geee]

Not very austere... but I use FFesr-78.15 (32bit) everywhere. Shopping, banking, Youtube, etc. Don't bother if other Social Media sites interest you. Only nitpik is my Credit Co. pukes on it... have to use dumb phone to pay.

If you choose this, ClearURLs, uBlock, and CSSexfil are highly recommended add-ons. You also might want to add a "distribution" folder to prevent FF auto-updates: add-ons will still update as needed.

Regards
8Geee

[dogle]

Hey, pp4mnklinux, are you clairvoyant (I nearly said fey, until I realised that has a gloomy association in your fine part of the world ... perhaps more appropriate to myself!) or is it just ‘great minds think alike’? - - you see, when I kicked off this thread early this morning I had no idea you had started your similar thread in the Users’ patch just a few hours earlier:
viewtopic.php?t=8668
- splendid idea on your part, because your thread has already got off to a great start and long may it continue ‘cos in these times of rapidly-moving browser goalposts it makes complete sense to share our recent experiences, to benefit everyone by the avoidance of countless hours of fruitless individual experimentation within the community. Dare I suggest that you might just edit your OP to encourage more explicit postings by contributors? - just f’rinstance, I have already found geo-c’s more detailed post on use of LibreWolf most useful -
viewtopic.php?p=88798#p88798
Anyway, top marks!

=> bigpup et al., yes, you are dead right .... my current Palemoon is not quite ready to take its stance alongside great-uncle Charlie’s ‘difference engine’ in the South Kensington museum, but is still pretty antique - about version 2.3.0 of some 4 years ago. It’s just that it has been working well until it became flaky fairly recently - all credit to the developer - and on the basis of ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ I’ve been afeard of fiddling with upgrades lest I break it.

As to ‘difficult’ websites, my searching has come up with an interesting link to an allied problem:
https://www.ghacks.net/2022/05/05/fix-p ... ification/

- and I feel pretty sure that I’m going to have to explore the matter of useragent massaging to lie about my browser status, e.g. interesting post by amethyst last year:
viewtopic.php?t=5062

(I feel sure that there used to be a Puppy user-agent-fixer .pet, or similar, but can’t find it now - anyone have a link?)

Huge thanks to all for your superb ‘gen input to this thread to date.

[mikeslr]

user-agent-fixer. Look for an addon. IIRC, they go by such names as User-agent switcher or faker or chooser. OOTB, the current Palemoon has something named 'User Agent Status' with the cryptic description "Tinker with the useragent on the status bar". I don't know what it does.

But you can install int Palemoon an 'Addon' named 'Classic Addons Archive' from here, https://github.com/JustOff/ca-archive. Palemoon uses the 'old/pre-firefox-quantum' architecture, so in theory can use the archived addons which installating the Classic Addons Archive' make available. There are 9 available, one offering several versions. Finding one, and the right version is 'hit or miss'.

But firefox changed its architecture because of security questions regarding the old architecture. [Waterfox publishes two versions; one based on firefox-quantum, and the other called 'classic' based on the old architecture. A warning about security concerns pop-up each time you start Waterfox-Classic].

For that reason, when engaging in any transaction that exposes financial identifications firefox or firefox-esr is recommended over palemoon with any and all addons.

[geo_c]

I have already found geo-c’s more detailed post on use of LibreWolf most useful -
viewtopic.php?p=88798#p88798

So if you find you do want to take the appimage approach with LibreWolf, here's what I do:

I locate the appimage in a folder on /mnt/home, so something like:
/mnt/home/portableAPP/LibreWolf-img

Then I run the app image by clicking on it in Rox, which in most puppies will run it. (If it doesn't that would be another matter outside of my knowledge.) LibreWolf appimage creates a folder /root/.librewolf when it runs.

I then shutdown LibreWolf.

Next I move the /root/.librewolf folder to the /mnt/home/portableAPP/LibreWolf-img folder where the appimage resides (though I suppose it could be anywhere, tidy to keep in the same folder as the appimage.)

Then I create a symlink in /root pointing to /mnt/home/portableAPP/.librewolf

Next run LibreWolf and configure it. If you have multiple linuxes installed you can symlink the profile file into each of them. And then of course you can copy the /mnt/home/portableAPP/LibreWolf to any other device, it's truly portable in that regard as long you symlink the /LibreWolf-img/.librewolf folder to /root first.

[Fossil]

At the moment (I use several browsers with a complex mixture of Puppies) Firefox 78.15.0esr 32-bit, Ublock, Quant-privacy search engine, HTTPS Everywhere, and...., although not a browser, but very much a part of browsing...., a 'Host' file, which is very similar in structure to Ublock preventing dubious sites from causing problems, but readily tailored to individual preferences and very simply updated. A much underrated part of the Internet security blanket and found within almost every 'Pup' under the menu heading 'Internet - Pup-Advert-Blocker'. A simple text file, downloaded either via the program or from a specialist website then pasted directly into the 'Host' file. Easy and very efficient.

[Jasper]

Why not try a text based browser?

https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 920#p88920

[houndstooth]

@dogle you can use a newer Pale Moon in a different location. You can even run both versions at the same time if one is run as spot & the other root.

If the builtin is in /opt/palemoon or /usr/lib/palemoon, I would put the update in /root/my-applications/palemoon.

If memory was a concern I would run it standalone on external media.

On light, full-featured criteria it really can't be beat on a desktop. All the major browsers are bloated.

[Pikaxhu]

My experience:

Lately using ungoogled chromium, 32 bits under bionic on dual core dell 1545, with 3Gigs ram.
https://slackware.nl/people/alien/slack ... /pkg/14.2/

Take a look at:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... /browsers/

Very update pitstop for browsers. Thanks to Peebee.

Regards

Pika

[dogle]

Oyez, Oyez, let it be known that yesterday (16MAY23) Palemoon announced a new ‘major’ release -
http://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml

Humph! After having tried to massage useragent to encompass Firefox via Palemoon to regain access to snotty websites, without success, I decided to ‘bite the bullet’ and risk an ‘upgrade’ - but no luck, ‘not available’! - because it seems that 32-bit ‘upgrades’ are not thus far available to linux users, but only to those so unfortunate as to remain M$ slaves ! - only 64-bit linux version offered.

Adding to my frustration, today my attempt to download Mike’s portable Firefox from NZ via my antique Palemoon (actually 28.8.4, not 30-series) resulted in a crash at the end of the download .... grrrrrr !... leading to a very reluctant, ugly power-off, loss of download and hopeful fsck on restarting ( anyone know of a keycode which can gain a terminal with which to kill the browser when things freeze up? ... as in when in all else including Ctrl + Alt + Backspace has ceased to be effective ).

Anyway, hearty thanks to all again for the splendid tips and info. in this thread - and please forgive me if due to current ‘existential’ personal issues “I may be gone for a long time".

[mikeslr]

mega.nz is finicky. But to use any of Mikewalsh's portables from there you can first create your own. You'll only have to do this once.

Step 1. You can download almost the latest firefox from here, https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/in ... on-firefox.

Step 2. It downloads as a tar.bz2. Right-Click, select UExtract and within the extracted folder you'll find one just named firefox. Move the 'firefox' folder wherever you want. It's actually a portable.

Step 3. But to function under Puppys you'll need the Extralibs package from here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 470#p42470.

Step 4. As that post says: "To Use: Download and UExtract the tar.gz. Move the 'extralibs' folder and the appropriate script [ff or firefox, smky for seamonkey] into your firefox or seamonkey folder and start your application by left-clicking the script."

Edit: Menu creation package deleted. It requires more than just the script. I have to go out. I'll rebuild and edit the above post when I get back. If I remember.

[mikewalsh]

@dogle :-

It's not so much a case of 32-bit upgrades not being "thus far" available for Linux users. It's a case of 32-bit builds not being available from Moonchild Productions, PERIOD. They've followed the general trend which says that 32-bit architecture has had its day.....and have switched to 64-bit ONLY.

Most developers & software houses have done the same, many already quite some time ago.

64-bit is itself getting quite long in the tooth. Although not in general use until around 2007-2008, it actually kicked-off with Intel's ill-fated "Itanium" architecture (ia64) all the way back in June of 2001. It became easily-available to the masses when AMD developed the legendary Athlon64, in late 2003/early 2004, utilising 64-bit extensions to the original x86 architecture, and the ability to run in what was known as "long mode".

32-bit-only processors haven't been manufactured for at least 15 years.

--------------------------------

There ARE 32-bit builds of Palemoon available, but these are strictly third-party compiles by individuals "sanctioned" to do so with Moonchild's "approval". He's quite fussy about them being built in an exact, specific manner, utilising a secret "recipe" only shared with a lucky few.

I create the 32-bit portables utilising builds by a guy called Steve Pusser. He does keep up with releases, but I have so much on my plate these days with looking after Mama that I don't always keep up with them myself.

Mike.

[Insanitor]

Chromium is probably the most complex browser.

Firefox seems be in the middle between complexity and speed.

Seamonkey is lightning fast. Great for YouTube.

All work on that system configuration.

[mow9902]

@dogle

I would also offer Waterfox (originally based on firefox code). 64bit only, but well maintained. Works well on my (very old) DELL laptop.
https://www.waterfox.net/en-US/

[mow9902]

@dogle

I just checked these two sites:
https://www.cvs.com/
https://www.tollsbymailny.com/en/home/index.shtml

Both of them work using iron browser and Watefox - BUT ONLY if the IP address is in the US (which I tested using my VPN service)

[peebee]

Chromium (the test-bed for Chrome and 'Clones') went '64-bit-Only' two years ago

Chromium is still available 32-bit (atm from Debian, Slackware & Void) - it's only Chrome that went 64-bit only......

[fernan]

Nobody mentioned Vivaldi, but that's my only choice when I don't use Firefox ESR (in slow machines).