New 32 Bit Puppys for Low RAM

[mikeslr]

Does anyone have personal knowledge of the RAM demands of recent 32-bit Puppys such as FocalPup32 or S15Pup 32-bit or the 32-bit VanillaDpup?

There's still a need for 32bit operating systems for 'old' computers, many of which are 'RAM-Challenged'. That need frequently shows up on posts in the Beginners Help Section. The newest Puppys with low-RAM demands I have personal knowledge of are dpup-Stretch and Bursterpup, both of which could reach desktop actually only reducing available RAM by about 68 Mbs (that is not including recoverable cache and buffers per Pupsys-Info's report).

Both those Puppys are now kind of 'long in the tooth'. I'd like to be able to recommend newer Puppys to newbies such as Blivon who is trying to put together an OS for his father. The computer ran Vista, has 1 Gb of RAM and its primary use will be to watch Youtubes. https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 14#p100514 To me, that suggests the need to have as much RAM as possible for a RAM-hogging Web-browser.

None of my surviving computers work well with 32-bit Systems; and asking people with actual experience is more efficient than setting up systems I won't use.

[williwaw]

To me, that suggests the need to have as much RAM as possible for a RAM-hogging Web-browser.

more RAM is always better, but what are the ways to optimize whats there?

is it the browser alone that hogs?

the excess javascript of the site visited can't help.

the streaming?

maybe a lighter browser, with a no script like addon, downloading instead of streaming.....
ie, probally not youtube

[amethyst]

If watching youtube videos is the main issue, the best thing to do is to avoid visiting the youtube website at all because it's extremely resource hungry. Watch youtube video via the players in DuckDuckGo or Bing. With everything streaming concerned, chromium based browsers works best for me. With only 1GB RAM, you will need swap. A dedicated swap partition will probably be best. I recommend this little 64-bit system: https://archive.org/download/puppy_linu ... less-1.iso. I use it with gnome-mplayer for my video needs (package is in the second post on that page. Works well for streaming and browsing too. I use Brave portable browser.

[peebee]

The VoidPup32 from @peebee should be able to run on those specs. Void Linux is extremely efficient and I had it run on an IBM T-42 laptop that has 1 G of RAM (officially), which htop will report 786 M of effective RAM.

Might be worth a try. The VoidPup's are well equipped, and are familiar in feel to most Puppy Linux desktops.

Download VoidPup32

Distro Collection ->puppy-linux-collection

[stevie pup]

@mikeslr I have 32bit VanillaDPup frugal installed to a portable hard drive, so I've done a quick test. Using Firefox to view this forum and a news channel open on another tab, also had Clementine music player running, and task manager showed it was using around 750Mb RAM.

I had it plugged into a 64bit laptop, as I don't have a 32bit machine to try it on. Must say I've never had any problems with it though. I don't suppose I really need it as all my laptops are 64bit, but one day I was thinking "what if", and I had spare HD knocking about, so that's how it came about. I did try some other 32 bit Puppies at the time, but a lot of them are getting pretty old, and I found in some cases that installing additional software (and getting it to work properly) was becoming a major pain.

I don't use YouTube, I use either SMTube or Freetube, but bear in mind Freetube is 64bit only.

I can't help wondering how much less RAM we would all need if it wasn't for all the ads and trackers on a lot of sites.

[wizard]

@mikeslr
@rockedge

We are always fighting an uphill battle with this age of hardware, especially laptops, due to cpu, ram and video limitations.

The closest hardware I have to @Blivon computer (Celeron 430, 1gb ram) is a Compaq v5000 with a AMD Sempron Mobile 3300 and 1gb ram. The CPU's are both from 2008-2009 and their benchmark scores are within less than 5%. Both have a Passmark v9 score of about 450. This hardware level would be what I consider the minimum for streaming internet video.

Dpup Stretch 7.5 has been my goto, but decided to test it against Void32 per rockedges suggestion.

Tested:
CPU scaling set to Powsersave to control CPU temperature
2gb swap file

clean frugal installs to internal hdd:
-stretch-7.5-uefi-k4.9.149
-VoidPup32-22.02+0

Loaded Palemoon 29.4.4 sfs
--added: Ublock Origin
-Palemoon run maximized
-video = California Trains 1 Hour (Youtube), run in DuckDuckGo viewer @ 360p quality in window

Observed results:
-running terminal free command showed Void32 had approx 250mb more available ram during streaming.
-Dpup Stretch playback was not always smooth
-Dpup Stretch system had unacceptable lag for all mouse clicks during streaming
-Void32 had far less system lag during streaming and smooth playback

On the tested hardware, Void32 would be the clear choice.

wizard

[wiak]

Whenever I want to stress-test RAM used I generally open my browser with a few Gmail login tabs. Each of these generally consume a couple of hundred MB of RAM. Yesterday, I checked and found logged-in Facebook and whatsapp web were similarly greedy. I'd therefore second the recommendation to avoid using YouTube site to watch videos, since no doubt RAM greedy.

BTW, if using recent Firefox, and perhaps not so recent, you can monitor the RAM tabs are using by going to about:processes

As for distro, if a Void32 variant works to reduce RAM used that would be nearest to ideal since Void Linux continues to support 32bits and provides very recent releases of apps and libs, and pretty good repos with excellent package manager.

A 'very' old computer may not work with newer browsers though because of limitations in its CPU

[wizard]

Further test on low spec hardware.

Computer = Dell D400 laptop
CPU = 1.3ghz Pentium M, Passmark = 298
Ram = 1gb

Tested as above post except:
CPU scaling set to Ondemand
100mb swap file
240p quality

Observed results:
-Void32 system lag increased, but usable, during streaming and mostly smooth playback

wizard

[mikeslr]

peebee --the creator of S15Pup, VoidPup, UPup32 (Bionic, Focal, Jammy) builds-- announces upgrades on this thread, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... p=375#p375. Always double-check that you are downloading the newest version. As of August 21, 2024, links to the latest --including Voidpup32-- can be found here, https://sourceforge.net/projects/pb-gh-releases/files/

[wizard]

JammyPup32 from @peebee viewtopic.php?t=5799 is a good choice for low ram (1gb) computers. In my same hardware test of internet video streaming it is better than older Puppies. It uses 20% less CPU and 100mb less ram than Bionicc32 and Dpup Stretch 7.5.

JammyPup32 is based on Ubuntu and is a long term support version. That plus easier access to more applications would make it a better choice than Void32, previously discussed.

See here for tested applications: viewtopic.php?t=9968

wizard

[wizard]

See this topic for Friendly-Jammy32 based on @peebee JammyPup32
viewtopic.php?t=9972

wizard

[mikeslr]

On 2024-02-08 peebee published an updated remaster of BionicPup32. Link to ISO, https://sourceforge.net/projects/pb-gh- ... 2_release/. Per peebee, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 96#p111796, if you are currently running a frugal install of the the original version just replace the .sfs etc in the frugal install directory from the .iso to update.

[mmmrr]

If watching youtube videos is the main issue, the best thing to do is to avoid visiting the youtube website at all because it's extremely resource hungry. Watch youtube video via the players in DuckDuckGo or Bing. With everything streaming concerned, chromium based browsers works best for me. With only 1GB RAM, you will need swap. A dedicated swap partition will probably be best. I recommend this little 64-bit system: https://archive.org/download/puppy_linu ... less-1.iso. I use it with gnome-mplayer for my video needs (package is in the second post on that page. Works well for streaming and browsing too. I use Brave portable browser.

how do i get to the player in duckduckgo?
ddg sends me to d/l a ddg browser...cheers, mm

[Clarity]

Hi @mikeslr

This might be of help to you as often times, a distro on one PC has various differing RAM uses than on others, in my experiences.

If you want to have a tool to allow quickly evaluating a specific distro on your platform(s), consider a simple USB like the Ventoy one describe on various locations on the forum that contain SG2D.

Simple to set up. And, once setup, use the simple USB forever to boot ISOs of your choice for evaluations that you choose. Also it can be used for production purposes in addition to evaluation of distros. Once setup, you merely download any ISO and boot directly to desktop.

If you think this will help ... Enjoy.
viewtopic.php?p=38449#p38449

[amethyst]

@mmmrr
Go to https://duckduckgo.com/ > search for anything, say youtube abba > click the Video tab (all videos relating to your search will be displayed) > click video you want to play > select watch here and make sure the option is ticked to save the setting.

[Clarity]

P.S. IF you do decide to setup a USB for booting ISOs to desktop, following those instructions is 'key' for several reasons to ensure handling all known ISO boot efforts for ALL of the PLDF distros.

Again, the Ventoy USB is made only once and is used forever in its lifetime to boot ISO and IMG files. It has been tested with all modern forum distros.

[mmmrr]

thanks amethyst.
i got halfway there.
yr info completes.
cheers, mm

[mmmrr]

this is frustrating:
clicked on video,
video begins,
clicked on 'watch here',
could not find 'save settings'
while looking, closed video.
restarted video,
could not find 'watch here'
uncheers, mm

[Opi5b]

Hello all! I am new to the board, but not new to Puppy.

I have two computers... one is Puppy Atomic Pup 19 that I use offline in an old ASUS eee 1000HE netbook.
This little gem works fine, and prints well. size is 150Mb on the download, and probably uses LESS THAN 1/2 GB storage.
The creator states its for 32bit eee computers with Atom CPU.
It has saved me from trashing an otherwise functional 'puter. NO browsing... FF27 is too old.
I keep browser for CUPS access.

The other is an OrangePI 5B that just got updated. Octo-core 4 A510 CPU and 4 MaliG610. its way small...
maybe 2 decks of cards stacked. Tossed in a BT keaul in yboard and finger mouse.
Wierd thing is you need a WIRED USB keyboard to set up the OS !!!

Paul in CT USA

MAY THE 4TH BE WiTH YOU

[Wiz57]

Welcome @Opi5b !
While I haven't used Atomic Pup, I did save my old Acer Aspire One AOA150 with an Intel Atom CPU and 1gb RAM from the dustbin! I've been using various versions of peebee's Slackware based puppies as well as an older Arch based one, all 32 bit. However, I do use it on the internet still, using Palemoon and Chromium (not Chrome). Can provide details if desired. Anyhow, nice to see yet another satisfied Puppy user!

Wiz

[rockedge]

in CT USA

Me too!

[wizard]

Here is a comparison of ram use for some of the newer Puppy's on a low powered single core 1gb computer. Although these will vary depending on the exact computer, they can be used as a relative reference. Use was checked immediately after booting.

Low powered computers using Puppy
Test hardware:
Compaq v5201 (2004):
cpu = 2.0ghz AMD Sempron Mobile 3300 32bit, Passmark v9 = 444
ram = 1gb ddr pc2700 (2x512)

Notes:
Frugal installs
Grub4Dos menu.lst file using pfix=nocopy,fsck
Ram Used taken from terminal "free" command
ZRAM increases available ram using compression, appears to be faster than using swap file or swap partition

ram-use2.jpg (20.28 KiB) Viewed 1319 times

wizard

[ozsouth]

s15pup32 -240919 ram usage (rough comparison - used i5 with 12Gb ram - my other pcs won't boot 32bit):

175mb upon boot
314mb with recent Palemoon
492mb with recent Firefox

[dimkr]

I wonder if you ran echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches before you measured RAM consumption. I bet most of the difference is page cache.

(And I wonder what the numbers would look like for Vanilla Dpup on the same machine, AFAIK all Puppy release in your list use xz compression and some have preinstalled known RAM hogs)

[amethyst]

I have a lowish end desktop, 2 gig Ram/2Ghz CPU. I didn't do any official testing but it seems to me that the Slacko Puppy's are the lightest on resources (also seems faster) on this old machine. Never used Slacko before but I'm impressed with it, also extremely stable. I use S15Pup64 as my 64-bit system but also have Jammy32 as my 32-bit system which also runs well (SPup32 is a bit lighter on demands but I'm running Jammy for variety). Both systems are also relatively small for newer Puppy's. The S15Pup64's base sfs is 230MB (max xz compression) and I do copy the system to RAM at bootup. I run Chrome portable from a dedicated small partition and normally have only one open tab at a time. Youtube is by far the biggest resource sucker of all the sites I generally visit but my system handles it well nevertheless. I also do lots of streaming without issues. Oh and I find that there's not much difference between the 32- bit and 64-systems in terms of performance nor the one being noticeably heavier on resources than the other. The only reason I actually use the 32-bit system sometimes is for my 32-bit Windows programmes which I run with a small 32-bit WINE version.

[tosim]

My IBM Thinkpad T43 has been sitting on the back desk with an older v of AntiX on it. Haven't turned it on for well over a year.
Am thiking now, of wiping the HDD and placing FriendlyJammy32 on it.
Do you recommend to do a frugal install from one of my puppies on it, and, firstly. any need for partitioning, as that will very
likely be the only puppy installed. However(covering all my bases), what would be best way to (frugally, of course) install
any additional puppies later on? Thank you for any suggestions on this.

[wizard]

@tosim

Your T43 supports USB booting, so just boot about any Pup from that and use Frugalpup to install Friendly and grub4dos.

any need for partitioning

Not unless you want to, just have a Linux ext3 or 4 partition for Puppys.

wizard

[wiak]

I don't have any older machines here anymore. Do they have trouble uncompressing zstd? If not, what on earth are people using slow-to-decompress xz compression for, and especially on old machines? Also if RAM is low, why copy the sfs files to RAM? Doesn't make any logical sense to me in terms of trying to get best performance. Is xz compression being used just to make the distro look smaller?

[rockedge]

Do they have trouble uncompressing zstd?

I have run into this recently. IBM T-42 laptop (2002?) can't deal with zstd and failed to decompress SFS's using this compression.

[dimkr]

I don't have any older machines here anymore. Do they have trouble uncompressing zstd?

My Eee PC netbook works so much better with zstd compared to xz. It's a single core CPU: applications start much faster with zstd and the CPU is not constantly busy. If this netbook can handle zstd, any "old computer" should and it's time to switch away from xz in distros aimed specifically at old hardware.

Also if RAM is low, why copy the sfs files to RAM?

Puppy doesn't copy everything by default, I don't remember the exact formula but I changed it so it tries to copy the more important SFSs first and it's limited to 50% of RAM. With a big Puppy and 1 GB of RAM, nothing is copied, but the use of xz and other size reduction tricks are footguns that trigger this copying and eventually translate into bad performance. Specifying pfix=nocopy became almost mandatory on truly old hardware, especially with a small Puppy (because a bigger one doesn't get copied to RAM and quite paradoxically, performs better).

However, as far as I see, a modern and full-featured distro is just too big to fit in RAM in a computer with less than 2 GB of RAM. In my 11.0.x dpup series I dropped copying to RAM and implemented vmtouch-like locking of the SFSs in page cache instead, but with automatic release on memory pressure. It's a win-win on old hardware: you get the same performance as copy-to-RAM, and it falls back to no-copy mode automatically when slowness is detected (without reboot). I'm addition, the copying happens in the background while you're already using the computer: it doesn't block the boot process. Also, I disabled automatic copying when booting from a SSD.