Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Available for download is KLV-Airedale-RT with full Real Time Kernel 6.6.0-rt15. Uploaded 11/16/2023

The RT version is using the rootfs SFS from KLV-Airedale-sr10 with the kernel 6.6.0-rock-rt15 and is equipped for using pipewire for audio support. The main rootfs was fully updated/upgraded on 02/11/2024 and is identical to the KLV-Airedale-sr10 rootfs.

The Cortile tiling window manager has been installed to provide a tiling window manager option layered on top of the XFCE4 desktop environment.

Download directory

Direct download

Updated the rootfs to include the grub2config package.

In a VM

qemu-system-x86_64 -name "Boot KLV-RT ISO file" -enable-kvm -m 2G -smp 2 -vga std -device AC97 -net nic -net user -rtc base=localtime -cdrom KLV-Airedale-RT.iso

Desktop emerges from a GRUB4DOS menu taking KLV's default option (RAM0)

.

I finally got around to booting up this new RT, posting from it now.

So far all seems to be working fine.

On this machine however, it takes a good 1:45 seconds to get past the "loading udev, waiting for devices to settle" message. Not sure if I should change the firmware.sfs or something like that. But I plan to boot up SR8, and I'll see if it does the same thing. My guess is it's the kernel/firmware combo that's causing the lag.

Installed this one as a multi-instance, so I'll play around with it, and try it on different machines.

EDIT: Well now there is another big issue, which I probably should have checked first, being that this is using pipewire. There appears to be no audio hardware in the pavu-control mixer. No sound, and trying to use audio results in applications hanging. Again, I suppose this could be the firmware/kernel, but it might be pipewire. I'll have to do some further investigation on different hardware and also run SR8 to see how they compare.

@geo_c I have compiled a stable full real time kernel 6.1.67-rt20 that should perform well. It is uploaded to https://rockedge.org/kernels/

I am wondering if the problem stems from the 01firmware SFS in the current version? I am using KLV-Airedale-RT with 6.1.38-rt13 and pipewire and so far all the audio stuff is working well.

Please try with the kernel that is working well. There should be little difference in the RT model you have and this one except for the Grub2config is added in and the pipewire.

Which version works best for you currently? We don't want to ruin a good system if it is broken and have it publicly offered!

rockedge wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:54 pm

@geo_c I have compiled a stable full real time kernel 6.1.67-rt20 that should perform well. It is uploaded to https://rockedge.org/kernels/

I am wondering if the problem stems from the 01firmware SFS in the current version? I am using KLV-Airedale-RT with 6.1.38-rt13 and pipewire and so far all the audio stuff is working well.

Please try with the kernel that is working well. There should be little difference in the RT model you have and this one except for the Grub2config is added in and the pipewire.

Which version works best for you currently? We don't want to ruin a good system if it is broken and have it publicly offered!

I was just switching the firmware to version 6.1.38 which has been working well in my older KLV-airedale-RT to see if runs better. About to reboot now...

And switching the 00modules and 01 firmware but not the kernel vmlinuz resulted in a faster boot, but more broken stuff, no networking, no audio devices, and no monitor resolution choice.

Perhaps the easier approach is to move 07-RT15-rootfs to one of my working instances of RT13.

And.....

That appears to be working! I moved 07RT15-rootfs and 16GTK-dialog to one of my multi-instances of KLV-RT13, and now display, networking, and audio is working.

I guess this old machine doesn't like that new kernel.

in F96-ce there is cpu freqscalling possible - i prefere "performance" - how to do it in KLV-Airedale-RT?

Gnimmelf wrote: Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:10 am

in F96-ce there is cpu freqscalling possible - i prefere "performance" - how to do it in KLV-Airedale-RT?

cpupower is installed, and it's a terminal application: type cpupower --help for commands

root# cpupower --help
Usage:	cpupower [-d|--debug] [-c|--cpu cpulist ] <command> [<args>]
Supported commands are:
	frequency-info
	frequency-set
	idle-info
	idle-set
	powercap-info
	set
	info
	monitor
	help

Not all commands can make use of the -c cpulist option.

Use 'cpupower help <command>' for getting help for above commands.
root# 

cpupower frequency-info will tell you the current governor and available governors.

root# cpupower frequency-info
analyzing CPU 7:
  driver: intel_cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 7
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 7
  maximum transition latency: 20.0 us
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 3.60 GHz
  available cpufreq governors: ondemand performance schedutil
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 3.60 GHz.
                  The governor "schedutil" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency: Unable to call hardware
  current CPU frequency: 2.69 GHz (asserted by call to kernel)
  boost state support:
    Supported: yes
    Active: yes
    3300 MHz max turbo 4 active cores
    3300 MHz max turbo 3 active cores
    3500 MHz max turbo 2 active cores
    3600 MHz max turbo 1 active cores
root#

cpupower frequency-set -g performance will change the governor to performance (the g switch being the governor.) You can also set the upper and lower frequency limits, even of individual processors. You can type [any command] --help for usage, and there are wiki manuals like this one: https://linux.die.net/man/1/cpupower-frequency-set

Also I have a set of simple scripts containing these commands that I store in a folder with startup launchers. A script like this could be placed on the desktop or in the Xfce menu or taskbar and run with a mouse click. I do this quite often, either to slow down clock speed when squashing large directories which runs my cpu hot, or to speed up to facilitate audio recording/playback.

The third launcher on the top row of the rox window is cpuD, and the script text is in geany on the left.

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************** What does each regulator mean *********

performance – maximum performance;
powersave – power saving mode;
ondemand – automatic mode, in which the processor frequency changes depending on the load (this mode is the default);
conservative – the same as ondemand, but less aggressive
Schedutil –  The "schedutil" governor aims to better integrate with the Linux kernel scheduler .

************** see which governor is installed **********

cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor  

Sofiya wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 11:05 am

************** What does each regulator mean *********

Code: Select all

performance – maximum performance;
powersave – power saving mode;
ondemand – automatic mode, in which the processor frequency changes depending on the load (this mode is the default);
conservative – the same as ondemand, but less aggressive
Schedutil –  The "schedutil" governor aims to better integrate with the Linux kernel scheduler .

************** see which governor is installed **********

Code: Select all

cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor  

Nice! These scripts are exactly what I use.

A couple of notes:

1) Different hardware is compatible with different governors. For instance the machine I am currently using only uses ondemand, schedutil, and performance, others only have powersave and performance available, it just depends on the hardware. The cuppower frequency-info will give you that information, and also the current scheduling policy as seen in this output:

root# cpupower frequency-info
analyzing CPU 7:
  driver: intel_cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 7
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 7
  maximum transition latency: 20.0 us
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 3.60 GHz
  available cpufreq governors: ondemand performance schedutil
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 3.60 GHz.
                  The governor "schedutil" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.

Or you can use the cat command @Sofiya provided. But the above output tells you. cpupower is one of the routines @rockedge added to this new release, and it's very handy. I have been installing it on systems that don't contain it OOTB.

2) cpupower is very effective and instanteous, I have often clicked my script in the middle of operations that begin running the cpu into the 70 degree range, and the cpu scales down instantly without any interruptions or errors to current operations.

@geo_c Do you have JACK installed on any KLV's and/or F96-CE_4?

I am looking to see about the music scoring software and test runs with a jack server and the Linux music work station plugins. Maybe compile the scoring package that is not working on KLV because of the missing lib's and see about a workaround. Maybe moan on the Void Linux forum probably to no avail about get that program to run on Void.

rockedge wrote: Sun Dec 31, 2023 5:00 pm

@geo_c Do you have JACK installed on any KLV's and/or F96-CE_4?

I am looking to see about the music scoring software and test runs with a jack server and the Linux music work station plugins. Maybe compile the scoring package that is not working on KLV because of the missing lib's and see about a workaround. Maybe moan on the Void Linux forum probably to no avail about get that program to run on Void.

I think, if I remember correctly, way back in the early beta stages of KLV-airedale, I tried installing jack and did not get it working.

I'm not sure that jack in conjuction with pipewire is necessarily a good idea, as I thought pipewire's strength is that it can do what jack does, and they may confilict with each other, however I am now just running a pipewire system and have to begin to get a handle on how to use it, so I'm not informed enough really to say much yet.

Frescobaldi is not a deal killer for me one way or the other, because in the KLVs I'm able to edit and view lilypond files just fine using the terminal, geany, and epdfview, in other words the old standard method. Frescobaldi has one nice feature that I do use frequently, that is it will import music .mxl files and convert them to lilypond code. So for complex scores, or maybe rearranging stuff I can grab from Musescore's website, I'm able to use musescore to setup a complex music score, and then export that to .mxl format, convert with Frescobaldi and use lilypond from there.

From efforts I made in the past, I think getting the necessary dependencies to run Frescobaldi pulls in a whole bunch of Qt5 stuff. Might not be worth the bloat.

Running a multi-instance of a remastered PFI of Airedale-RT15. Everything running very smoothly using 6.1.38modules and firmware. Ardour8 and portables, music apps, all running smooth on pipewire so far.

I'm taking this approach for awhile:

instance0: contains a PFI
instance1: contains my personal remastered 07rootfs with all other system files linked back to instance0
instance2: links back to instance0 and the 07roots in instance 1

This way I can run instance1 as a daily driver, and if I want to update the rootfs, again, I'll just boot up the psuedo full install and update it, then resquash and replace the 07rootfs in instance1 after deleting the instance1 upper_changes. Instance2 can just be static and always fresh, pointing to the latest 07rootfs in instance1. No need to add layers of bloat this way. Just run instance1 with upper_changes until I feel a need to do another remaster, boot up the instance0 PFI, make the changes, and resquash.

Very happy today that my multi instance of the latest RT is running smoothly on my audio computer at work (which is a little behind the times, so I am running 6.1.38 kernel.) But very nice that pipewire is working with my mixing board and zoom functions correctly. Everything seemed pretty flawless and responsive.

Now I need to do some digging on how to get the most out of pipewire, and see if it's really suited to do "jack-like" audio tasks.

See this post for my tests of pipewire tool qpwgraph: viewtopic.php?p=107700#p107700

KLV-Airedale-RT uses the same rootfs as KLV-Airedale-sr10 and is differentiated by RT using the full real time kernel 6.6.0-rt15.

The Cortile tiling window manager has been installed to provide a tiling window manager option layered on top of the XFCE4 desktop environment.

The ISO download links are in the first post of this topic -> viewtopic.php?p=103631#p103631

Hi.

I downloaded this for testing, but I got kernel panic.

Message: Kernel Offset: disabled and then the computer stops.
Needed a hard shutdown by power button.

I have all my Puppy systems on one internal HD, booting with Grub4Dos.
Of course the manually created Grub4Dos boot menu entry won't fit for KLV?

Can anyone show me an example of how a boot menu entry has to look to get that thing booting and running?
Is it able to boot under a wide variety of different Puppy and Dog Linux systems using Grub4Dos?
Are there any boot options like pfix, plang, subdir etc.?
What about the language packages, is there one existing for German?

Thanks

Tippe wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:28 pm

Hi.

I downloaded this for testing, but I got kernel panic.

Message: Kernel Offset: disabled and then the computer stops.
Needed a hard shutdown by power button.

I have all my Puppy systems on one internal HD, booting with Grub4Dos.
Of course the manually created Grub4Dos boot menu entry won't fit for KLV?

Can anyone show me an example of how a boot menu entry has to look to get that thing booting and running?
Is it able to boot under a wide variety of different Puppy and Dog Linux systems using Grub4Dos?
Are there any boot options like pfix, plang, subdir etc.?
What about the language packages, is there one existing for German?

Thanks

Yes KLV works with grub.

The iso contains a script call wd_grubconfig. Copy the contents of the iso into your desired boot location and run the script from that exact boot location. The script will create boot stanzas for grub4dos and grub2 and place them in a file calle grub_config.txt. Copy the appropriate stanzas from that file into your boot config file.

Best to go with uuid stanzas it provides as opposed to drive letter, but it gives you both.

geo_c wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:31 pm

... Best to go with uuid stanzas it provides as opposed to drive letter, but it gives you both.

True! Or you can use the partition label, instead, should you choose.

@geo_c
Thanks, that helped.
Currently running KLV Airedale and posting from it.

It was a bit trouble to get the keyboard working as usual.
Refused to give me the '@' key.

Now it works.

Internet connection was easy to establish.
So, now trying to download some packages to install.

Ok, I tried to download Qtractor via OctoXBPS.

First time it stopped with an error.
Second time it hangs.
All options, all menu entries are disabled.
Can't see where the files to download (18) are being stored.
Can't even see if they are loading down or if it's just kidding me.

Could it be that I have such a poor bad computer that runs only Puppy Linux?

Tippe wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 3:28 pm

Hi.

I downloaded this for testing, but I got kernel panic.

Message: Kernel Offset: disabled and then the computer stops.
Needed a hard shutdown by power button.

I have all my Puppy systems on one internal HD, booting with Grub4Dos.
Of course the manually created Grub4Dos boot menu entry won't fit for KLV?

Can anyone show me an example of how a boot menu entry has to look to get that thing booting and running?
Is it able to boot under a wide variety of different Puppy and Dog Linux systems using Grub4Dos?
Are there any boot options like pfix, plang, subdir etc.?
What about the language packages, is there one existing for German?

Thanks

What about the language packages, is there one existing for German?

remove the fake (.false.gz), make the file executable, run, log out of the session, log in. The system must be in your language

@Sofiya
Thanks, will check this after this post.

I had to do a hard shutdown by power button.
Next reboot I checked for updates and installed them.
260+ files updated and then I could download Qtractor and Qjackctl.

But Qjackctl could not activate the ALSA midi and Qtractor complained about it.
MIDI keyboard not recognized. So, no chance to do some music.

I think jack conflicts with pulse audio.
Could not find anything to setup audio, e.g which soundcard to use etc.

Hmmm...

Any hints?

Thanks

Sofiya wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 10:55 pm

remove the fake (.false.gz), make the file executable, run, log out of the session, log in. The system must be in your language

Where do I store this file?

Damn, this OS is kidding me.

I made the file executable, and let it run from the download folder in $HOME / root (?).
Then I'm logging out and could not login anymore.
After typing xwin it asked for a password.

I tried to use password root, but the cursor didn't even make a single move.

I did never specify any password.
So, I had to reboot by typing reboot into the prompt.

Luckily I could choose to save the session.

How comes this OS to ask me for a password that I didn't specify?

And, oh thanks.
As far as I can see now, I have German language running.
Great!

@Tippe

KLV-Airedale is a multi-user operating system. That means if you logout the graphical desktop also logs out, and drops to a console (terminal) level of command. It will again start up automatically once logged in as some user.

KLV-Airedale logs in as the user root as default behavior. The root user password is root. Another user built in is spot with a password spot

There is no xwin command in KLV-Airedale.

This is a XFCE4 desktop graphical environment and it will automatically start when you login from the console login prompt.

Ok, thanks. This worked.

Tippe wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:40 am

Ok, thanks. This worked.

I notice that you are installing qjackctl and qtractor.

Does that mean you are installing the jack server?

Airedale has pipewire so you don't need to install jack. Even though it may not conflict to have it on the system, I run without jack server installed.

Instead install pipewire-jack libraries. Run jack applications from the terminal with pw-jack command, so to start Carla you would use pw-jack carla

Also qtractor doesn't run well, it hangs and crashes, and I think it's the QT libraries.

I tested every jack audio appication awhile back and made an 08layer for KLV-spectr, which is not Airedale, so you probably don't want to use it, however in this post: viewtopic.php?p=112232#p112232 I listed all the packages to install from the void repo to use jack applications on a pipewire setup. Those are the same for Airedale, because they are both Void.

I've been running these applications for months on Spectr and Airedale with no issues. Also I made a set of desktop files that will launch all of these jack applications with the pw-jack command so you can start applications from the menu and automatically invoke the pipewire-jack framework without having to start the applications in the terminal.

@geo_c
Thanks, I will check this. Currently examining the system
to get familiar with its inner structures. Gonna find out, if I could
modify stuff the way I did in my Puppy systems.

@rockedge
The files w_init in initrd and at boot directory are different.
The w_init from initrd is from 24. Oct. 2023,
the w_init at boot directory is from 12. Feb. 2022.

The init script in initrd prefers to load the w_init at boot partition.
So, it prefers to load the older version?
I'm confused about that.
It reminds me on the facts of having different DISTRO_SPECS files in initrd and base .sfs of some Puppies in the past.

Just reporting...