Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hi Barry et al,

I post this from the latest version of EasyOS - Kirkstone 5.4.10.

I just installed Ungoogled-Chromium from a flatpak and it went well.

The more I use the EasyOs series the more impressed I am with this style of OS implementation.

Clearly, EasyOS is unique and my hat is off to Barry and others that have made this possible.

As EasyOS is, "JWM" is my favorite "stacking" WM. However, I have moved on and now prefer "tiling" WMs.

One may wonder what the attraction is for a "tiling" wm?

Simply stated, for me, it would be much much less time spent using the mouse and more efficient use of display space.

My favorites would be the "Awesome" WM with "i3" and "qtile" as a distant second and third.

As an example, here is a screenshot I posted to the Antix forum using Awesome.

https://www.antixforum.com/wp-content/u ... wesome.png

Ergo, I am wondering what it would take to implement an EasyOS pup with an alternate window manager?

Or maybe an EasyOS with an option of either JWM and a "tiling" WM.

I look forward to all feedback and suggestions on the possibility of extending EasyOS in a new direction.

NixMan

Compile whatever wm you prefer to use and install it.

Exit from the desktop, via the menu "Shutdown -> Rectify -> Exit to commandline"

Then:

# xwin <name of wm executable>

It should then start the desktop with your wm, and it will be remembered for the future
-- see /etc/windowmanager

There is, however, a problem, as jwm is more than just a window manager; it also runs the tray and menu.

You will need to install something else to provide the tray and menu.

The mechanism described above to change wm is in Puppy from the very early days.
There is a lot of information in the forum, particularly the old forum, on providing tray and menu alternatives to jwm.
I do recall posts about tiling wms also.

NixMan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:22 am

As EasyOS is, "JWM" is my favorite "stacking" WM. However, I have moved on and now prefer "tiling" WMs.

While JWM is "stacking" by default (in JWM called "cascaded"), this default can be changed to "tiled". That's the way I use JWM.

Hi Barry,

Thank you for the reply.

BarryK wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:19 am

Compile whatever wm you prefer to use and install it.

Exit from the desktop, via the menu "Shutdown -> Rectify -> Exit to commandline"

Then:

Code: Select all

# xwin <name of wm executable>

It should then start the desktop with your wm, and it will be remembered for the future

Where would one look for concise instructions on compiling apps in EsayOS? Or, stated differently, what would one search for in the forums that might prove helpful? I ask my since impression of EasyOS is that it appears to be tightly integrated and not intended for compiling user applications.

I found the following thread on the forum. Is this a good place to start?
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... pps#p10057

Which led to:
https://easyos.org/dev/coding-for-easyos.html

And to:
https://bkhome.org/archive/puppylinux/d ... index.html

As far as the Awesome wm goes it comes standard with a combination "polybar-tray" (app menu, app doc and system status). It also includes an app run bar much like dmenu. Awesome also supports a mouse driven app menu reached by clicking on the desktop just like JWM. So, I think that standard JWM capability is covered as part of basic Awesome wm functionality.

However, the Awesome wm does require a lua config file residing in /home/user/.config/awesome/rc.lua. Would this be placed in the root folder? Looking through the user file system, "/root/.config" seems to contain similar config files like a traditional linux system. One wonders though how to redirect Awesome to look in "/root/.config". Or maybe this is as simple as adding a .config directory to EasyOS as /home/root/.config to mimic a standard linux system?

I look forward to your feedback and suggestions.

Thank You,

NixMan

Or maybe this is as simple as adding a .config directory to EasyOS as /home/root/.config to mimic a standard linux system?

I am not an expert working with EasyOS, but I think it is that easy. EasyOS must have a Devx package addon which would include the tools needed to compile.

You are attempting to install the Awesome tiling window manager in EasyOS? Wonder if trying to manually install from binaries would work or give some indications of what is necessary to get awesome to work. The configuration files should work the /root/.config location.

I have not tried yet to swap in a different WM in EasyOS but would be interesting to see how it works!

MochiMoppel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:15 am

While JWM is "stacking" by default (in JWM called "cascaded"), this default can be changed to "tiled". That's the way I use JWM.

Mochi, could you share/how where you make the config change to "tiled"

@NixMan

I find the search bar at Barrys homepage to be very useful

compiling site:bkhome.org/news

rockedge wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 4:56 pm

Or maybe this is as simple as adding a .config directory to EasyOS as /home/root/.config to mimic a standard linux system?

I am not an expert working with EasyOS, but I think it is that easy. EasyOS must have a Devx package addon which would include the tools needed to compile.

Yes, same as the pups, a devx*.sfs

"Coding for EasyOS"
https://easyos.org/dev/coding-for-easyos.html

williwaw wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:43 pm

Mochi, could you share/how where you make the config change to "tiled

It's as easy as
1) creating a new <Group> tag in the file /root/.jwm/jwmrc-personal: <Group><Option>tiled</Option></Group>
2) running jwm -restart to apply the new setting for newly created windows

Here is a HOW-TO: JWM:How to avoid overlapping windows

I'm a bit confused about the term "tiling" WM. Gobolinux uses Awesome, and according their screenshots windows are mostly not tiled. They state "Our Awesome WM configuration uses a familiar setup with floating windows, but keybindings can be used to tile and dock windows to the screen corners". So "cascading/floating" by default? That would be the same as JWM. Tiling via keyboard shortcuts is not part of JWM but can be achieved by using scripts.

An alternative is to try whaw. Former Puppy dev Jemimah included it one of her creations some years ago. It is a simple mouse controlled utility to arrange selected windows in either a horizontal or vertical tiled layout.

Hi Mochi,

The beauty of Awesome is that it will seamlessly support both "Tiling" mode and "Stacking" mode.

MochiMoppel wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:00 am

I'm a bit confused about the term "tiling" WM. Gobolinux uses Awesome, and according their screenshots windows are mostly not tiled. They state "Our Awesome WM configuration uses a familiar setup with floating windows, but keybindings can be used to tile and dock windows to the screen corners". So "cascading/floating" by default? That would be the same as JWM. Tiling via keyboard shortcuts is not part of JWM but can be achieved by using scripts.

I was an ardent "Stacking" mode and mouse window manager user until last year when I invested the time to learn about "Tiling" window managers. They are now my preferred user interface simply because the time spent moving and rearranging windows largely goes away. As far as the learning curve goes, the "keyboard shortcuts" to manipulate the window manager become muscle memory in about a week. I have now learned all the relevant shortcuts for both Awesome and i3. Give one a try for a month and you might be surprised.

Awesome wm - found here: https://awesomewm.org/
i3 wm - found here: https://i3wm.org/
qtile wm - found here: https://qtile.org/

NixMan

Have you tried the tiling WM Spectrwm? We experiment with it on other type frugal installs and was not that hard to implement.

MochiMoppel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:15 am

While JWM is "stacking" by default (in JWM called "cascaded"), this default can be changed to "tiled". That's the way I use JWM.

Was trying this feature by JWM manager, during a rather larger bookworm.sfs download. Suddenly, the mouse-cursor changed from arrow to text-cursor. And losing the ability to click on anything on the desktop. The tiling would probably have needed a desktop refresh to take effect. But with no access to the menu? So no save session during shutdown possible. I regret. As a casual computer user, I'm simply not accustomed to such failures from Windows. Though sure possible there too, when digging too deep into the system and as uniformed.

Is there any shortcut in EasyOS, whenever the mouse and touch-display suddenly becomes responsive, to still save the session before power off?

pamojja wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:05 pm

MochiMoppel wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:15 am

While JWM is "stacking" by default (in JWM called "cascaded"), this default can be changed to "tiled". That's the way I use JWM.

Was trying this feature by JWM manager, during a rather larger bookworm.sfs download. Suddenly, the mouse-cursor changed from arrow to text-cursor. And losing the ability to click on anything on the desktop. The tiling would probably have needed a desktop refresh to take effect. But with no access to the menu? So no save session during shutdown possible. I regret. As a casual computer user, I'm simply not accustomed to such failures from Windows. Though sure possible there too, when digging too deep into the system and as uniformed.

Is there any shortcut in EasyOS, whenever the mouse and touch-display suddenly becomes responsive, to still save the session before power off?

Hmmm...
How much RAM does your PC have?
If running off usb stick, how big is it?

Click on "save" desktop icon and tick the "Toggle-off session in RAM"
...you won't need to save the session anymore.

Note, I have had occasions when the mouse cursor has changed from an arrow to something else, but it has still worked.

BarryK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:35 am

Hmmm...
How much RAM does your PC have?
If running off usb stick, how big is it?

8GB of Ram, 32GB USB stick.

BarryK wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 1:35 am

Click on "save" desktop icon and tick the "Toggle-off session in RAM"
...you won't need to save the session anymore.

That's what I usually have done, after every large download. Meanwhile, I got more confident, and didn't do this time, just tried to toggle from cascaded to tiled windows setting. But clicking on anything wasn't possible anymore after that setting-change. No more save session click taken. Tried dozens of times.

So there isn't any short-cut to save session in EasyOs, for such a case, where mouse-clicks aren't possible anymore and everything freezes in EasyOS?

Therefore better not trust EasyOS to handle such situations well enough yet (from a USB-stick)? And if one wants to continue using it, better save sessions after any major download? But don't challenge it too much with multiple processes at the same time? (in this case: large download, reading this thread for changing the windows setting in FF, and trying it out in JWM manager at the same time).

Note, I got so confident in doing multiple tasks from windows, it never froze for me the last 10 years of use. Just the other day I run by accident into the short-cut for changing the cascading to tiled setting, without any hiccup, and also multiple programs running.

.

Edit: Was late last night, this morning starting up EasyOs it indeed somehow saved the session, despite not having shown the 'saving session' dialog. Downloaded containerized bookworm is available, only some minor settings, like rearanging all desktop symbols to the left, didn't stick. So not a serious error at all, as first thought writing this post.