Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I'm using Puppylinux for some years now and worked with several puppies.
Currently I use Fossapub64 on an 13 year old iMac 27''. It works very fast and pretty well. I changed the kernel to 5.4.53 and updated the used browsers.
After running an update with QuickPet, I looked into the help and noticed that the last update entries are:

03/07/2021 added inkscape sfs ... Grey
04/07/2021 samba on/off fix ... @rmcellig1 & Clarity 

That is more then 2 years ago.

Is Fossapub still supported till today? Or is it eol?
I think about changing to a newer Debian or Slack puppy, but Fossapub runs really good and I would like to use it the next months.

kamemo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:11 pm

I would like to use it the next months.

It all depends on the range of tasks. If you need to hack the Pentagon's website, then no

But if to emulate, draw something, then yes. I have also installed ZeroBrain Studio and sometimes write scripts for LOVE and Lua

kamemo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:11 pm

I'm using Puppylinux for some years now and worked with several puppies.
Currently I use Fossapub64 on an 13 year old iMac 27''. It works very fast and pretty well. I changed the kernel to 5.4.53 and updated the used browsers.
After running an update with QuickPet, I looked into the help and noticed that the last update entries are:

Code: Select all

03/07/2021 added inkscape sfs ... Grey
04/07/2021 samba on/off fix ... @rmcellig1 & Clarity 

That is more then 2 years ago.

Is Fossapub still supported till today? Or is it eol?
I think about changing to a newer Debian or Slack puppy, but Fossapub runs really good and I would like to use it the next months.

It's based on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS which has EOL of April 2025. Still very much supported. The Puppy Fossa version that is updated regularly (or is going to be updated regularly), I think, is F96-CE.

Thank you very much. That sounds good. I know that Ubuntu Fossa is supported till April 2025, but I didn't know how long the support of this puppy was.
I use it every day for browsing the web and doing simple office tasks beside Linux Tails and NomadBSD. So, more or less I only use live systems.

In reality, Puppy versions get support here on the forum long after their parent distributions are EOL.

wizard

I successfully changed to F96-CE4, which looks nice. I like it very much.
Now I can follow the F96-CE to get updates. Thanks a lot.

@kamemo
If you're interested in the F96 extended help files, download here:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/wizard ... t/download

wizard

Get off the update train!

Puppy Linux is not about using the latest and greatest.

It is about using what works to do what you want to do.

Fossapup64 9.5 has Quickpet -> Fossapup updates as a way for the Fossapup64 developer to provide updates and bug fixes for stuff found after Fossapup64 was final release.

Only a few things really needed the update or fix.

Well, kamemo, take whatever train you like. But to expand on what bigpup wrote, the perfect Puppy would be one you'd never have to change before your computer falls apart.

There are three good reason anyone would want to update/upgrade something:
(1) Web-browsers are in a constant battle to (a) provide feature-rich graphics and video and (b) thwart miscreants devising malware. But Xenialpup64 --first published in 2017-- can use the current web-browsers our devs have recently made available.
(2) The latest version of some application has 'bells & whistles' you've long dreamed about. But it may not run on your Puppy because of a glibc dependency: see below.
(3) Security: The latest kernels have security patches against malware which didn't exist or hadn't been discovered when a Puppy was first published. You can swap your current Kernel for a newer one. But you can also 'lock-down' any Puppy since, at least, Tahrpup first published in 2015. Employ the Save2SFS module of nicOS-Utility-Suite, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 983#p12983 to replace your use of a READ-WRITE SaveFile/Folder with a READ-ONLY adrv.sfs and/or ydrv.sfs. That won't prevent hackers from accessing your system while you are on-line. But on shut-down RAM is wiped. So on your next boot-up you boot into a pristine system. Properly managed hackers have additional hurdles. If you have all necessary applications within the advr or ydrv then on boot-up from a hard-drive all your drives are dismounted and don't have to be mounted until you need to write to one (which need not be the one your operating system booted from); and on boot-up from a flash-drive you can unplug the flash-drive.

The glibc limitation: glibc is a foundation library against which other applications are built. An operating system, itself, can only have one glibc. The new version of an application may require a newer version of glibc. It may be possible to replace glibc; but at best it's difficult; and replacing a glibc will likely break those applications built against the older glibc. You replace the broken applications with newer versions and by the time your finished you might as well have --and more easily-- just replaced Puppy with a newer version.

amethyst wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:04 pm

It's based on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS which has EOL of April 2025. Still very much supported. The Puppy Fossa version that is updated regularly (or is going to be updated regularly), I think, is F96-CE.

"Supported" means "Canonical publishes security and bug fix updates", but you have to install them to benefit from them.

Fossapup64 9.5 was released on September 2020, doesn't have point-releases (9.5.1 ...) that incorporate all Ubuntu 20.04 updates and doesn't include a tool that applies all the updates post-installation. Therefore, it's still affected by all known security vulnerabilities and bugs Ubuntu 20.04 had in September 2020, and issues discovered after September 2020 but fixed since then. It's terribly out of date: you can use it, but you're taking a risk, and nobody will fix a bug that annoys you.

The "update" functionality in quickpet only installs some old packages, nobody uploads more of these, and it definitely doesn't apply all the updates Canonical publishes for Ubuntu 20.04.

F96-CE was built much later, so it's not as out-of-date as Fossapup64 9.5, but it suffers from the same problems: it has no point releases and there's no update mechanism. It misses Ubuntu 20.04 updates published after its release, and it's getting more vulnerable as time goes by and security vulnerabilities are discovered in Ubuntu 20.04.

@dimkr
Okay, so let's assume I find all the updates (security/bug) fixes for Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, how would I go about installing it for Fossapup9.5. Is it easy to do so and will it be effective?

amethyst wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:20 am

Is it easy to do so

No, you have 3 years of updates to apply. Plus, some packages are customized by woof-CE during the build process, so you can't just install the latest .deb package as-is.

It would be much easier to find the woof-CE version and build process used to produce 9.5 (AFAIK, never published) and repeat it in 2023 against Ubuntu 20.04's repos as of now.

amethyst wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:20 am

will it be effective?

Probably not 100%, because 9.5 also includes various .pet packages, and they probably include more bugs and more vulnerabilities not addressed by Canonical's updates.

dimkr wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:28 am

amethyst wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:20 am

Is it easy to do so

No, you have 3 years of updates to apply. Plus, some packages are customized by woof-CE during the build process, so you can't just install the latest .deb package as-is.

It would be much easier to find the woof-CE version and build process used to produce 9.5 (AFAIK, never published) and repeat it in 2023 against Ubuntu 20.04's repos as of now.

amethyst wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:20 am

will it be effective?

Probably not 100%, because 9.5 also includes various .pet packages, and they probably include more bugs and more vulnerabilities not addressed by Canonical's updates.

So it's not as easy as a Windows update (from what I can remember). This is the problem with Linux in general, its diversity of distributions, architecture, different packages and what have you can be very frustrating and hard work to get right for the normal/average computer user. I suppose the bigger, flashy well-known linux distributions make it a bit easier.

amethyst wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:39 am

I suppose the bigger, flashy well-known linux distributions make it a bit easier.

They just have some tool that offers to install all missing updates in yes/no manner. This can be done for Puppy as well, but updates you install go to the save layer instead of replacing files inside a SFS, so they slow down your Puppy.

dimkr wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:54 am

amethyst wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 6:39 am

I suppose the bigger, flashy well-known linux distributions make it a bit easier.

They just have some tool that offers to install all missing updates in yes/no manner. This can be done for Puppy as well, but updates you install go to the save layer instead of replacing files inside a SFS, so they slow down your Puppy.

That will be an automatic install. Better to download a package and merge its contents into the base sfs.

Many things to learn now. Nowadays, it is normal to update every device often (Smartphones, PC, Laptops, even TV-Boxes) to stay on the safe side.
Most computer systems have an update mechanism, and many do this automatically. On Puppylinux I have to learn that I have to look manually for system updates. Browser updates are simple, but to update the whole system I have to check for newer releases like F96-CE4 now and at next maybe F96-CE5.
Rebooting without saving a session seems to be a good way to stay safe. I will use another external SSD as my permanent "home" device for saving things (Documents, files etc.). So I only have to save my settings on the puppy stick and after that I do not need to save things further on this device.

Fossapup64 9.5 is not Ubuntu and is not using all the same programs as Ubuntu.

The only thing they have in common is the core Linux files and programs to operate a Linux OS.

A lot of Puppy Linux is using Puppy specific written programs, code scripts, and files only Puppy Linux uses.

OK, Ubuntu has updates.

BUT WHAT IS GETTING UPDATED??????

If it is anything specific to core Linux files or programs, maybe Fossapup64 9.5 could benefit from them or maybe not.
Changing core files or programs, to a newer version, can brake Puppy Linux.

bigpup wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 5:23 pm

BUT WHAT IS GETTING UPDATED??????

Search for "CVE-", each of these is a vulnerability:

http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs ... /changelog
http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs ... /changelog
http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs ... /changelog

(And this is only a small sample, only 3 Ubuntu packages included in Fossapup)

(And the list of known vulnerabilities and bugs in Fossapup only grows with time: every vulnerability announced in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubunt ... -announce/ that affects Ubuntu 20.04 is now a known vulnerability attackers can exploit without having to find it first; some even have ready-made, freely available exploits)