Discussion, talk and tips
https://forum.puppylinux.com/
Hi,
I have just discovered Puppy, and would like some advice on what version to download to a usb stick to run as a live version on my Win 11 64 bit EFI laptop. In doing so I can try it out before installing it in a dual boot. At the moment I have a dual boot with Win 11 and Linux Zorin up and running, Puppy sound a good option.
@longshanks73 :- Hallo.....and 
to the "kennels".
You've made a sound choice. Puppy is a very good option, indeed. With Puppy, you don't just have to run a 'Live' version from a USB stick, you can in fact set-up a complete, permanent install on one.....Puppy was always designed to work this way, right from the word 'Go', 20 years ago.
(You'll hear terms like 'frugal' mentioned quite a lot. Don't go thinking that a 'frugal' Puppy sounds like a 'poor-man's', stripped-back install, because it's not; a 'frugal' Puppy is very much the real thing. 'Frugal', in this instance, merely describes the way that Puppy is careful with drive-space, loading the entire system into RAM from highly-compressed, immutable, "read-only" files that are designed to occupy the minimum amount of space.)
------------------------------------
Now; I'm going to let our "experts" guide you through this. I haven't run Windows since before UEFI was even a "thing", so.....that gives you some idea just how long it's been! You're going to need advice on dual-booting with an EFI machine using Windows, and some of our Puppy users do this all the time. It's pointless my giving you out-of-date advice.
Before you go any further, I would advise having a good read through the "General Information" section at the top of the front page. We set this up last year specifically to give noobs/beginners a starting-point from which to build.
As for which Puppy to run, well.......sounds to me like your hardware should be capable of running ANY Puppy you care to select. There's quite a few recent releases to choose from; each has its adherents & proponents, so once again I will let others advise. Personally, unlike most geeks - I'm a bit of an oddball in this respect - I don't insist on always running the very newest, most up-to-date version. For a Windows user, you will probably find that very hard to understand..!
Hang in there. Help will be on its way, but.....DO be patient. It's the time-zone thing; not everybody who's best qualified to help will be logged-on at the same time. Some will more than likely be just getting-up for the day when you're turning in.....
We'll get you sorted, one way or another.
Mike. 
Hi, longshanks73 and ditto what t'other mike wrote, including the
I always recommend that 'newbies' first explore Puppy by deploying it to a USB-Key. Avoids a lot of running around in the rare event that the Puppy you chose just doesn't play well with your computer.
By the Way, tell us about your computer --especially, model, graphics card and amount of RAM; see bigpup's post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... p=816#p816. We only know what you tell us.
Primarily, I'm posting to make certain you know the right-way to use Rufus to deploy any Puppy to a USB-Key. See this post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 522#p40522.
Puppys are NOT cut-down versions of any distro. But they are 'woofed'/created to be binary-compatible to some Major Distro: that is the binaries of that distro are used and that Puppy will offer direct access to it's binary compatible distro's repositories. With rare exceptions, the following Major Distros have been used: debian, ubuntu, slackware and void. Since you are familiar with Zorin --which is based on Ubuntu-- an Ubuntu based Puppy would apparently present the smallest learning curve. But Ubuntu, itself, is a restructuring/rebranding of debian binaries, so debian Puppys will be just as easy. Since your computer runs Windows 11, some of the newest Puppys are likely to be your best bets.
But you don't have to decide immediately. Unlike most (all?) other distros, Puppys do not need an entire partition: each only needs its own folder. If you choose a large enough USB-Key --16 Gbs or more-- once you've used rufus* to deploy one Puppy to it, you can easily add two or three more. Just Right-click an empty space on your USB-Key, select New>Directory and give it a name; download an ISO, Left-Click it to mount/open it, drag-drop its contents into the folder you created; then run Menu>Setup>grub2config to write a new boot-manager. If your first Puppy doesn't have grub2config, you can download it from here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 703#p29703.
So, finally to get down to answering your question. You might want to try BookwormPup64 or VanillaDpup. These are binary-compatible to debian. But unlike most Puppys those offer apt/synaptic as package manager. Personally --although they do not have apt/synaptic-- I am partial to Friendly-Fossa, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 902#p43902 --really good for newbies-- and Another Jammy64pup, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 612#p81612; though TBH, most of the time I run F-96. https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=8392.
And now a word from our sponsor, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 314#p91314 
You might want to take a look at this post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 668#p90668, not so much for its Puppy or the specific applications it mentions, but rather for the different techniques it discusses and cautions it provides for 'fleshing out' any Puppy. It may give you some ideas your experience with Zorin may not have acquainted you with.
-=--=-=-=-=-
* @Clarity can best explain how to use Ventoy &/or SuperGrub2 as an alternative to rufus. I'm not sufficiently familiar with them to know if either Zorin or Windows 11 can use them.
@mikeslr :-
Small "off-topic" step-aside, here... 
Re; your linked 'desktop'. "Haikumod" icon theme, huh?
Y'all know I'm not one for icon themes. Y'all, know, too, from my various postings in "Show us your desktop", that I run a very eclectic mixture of icons, and frequently make my own up if I can't find summat I like online. But I thought those icons looked familiar..... Having finally got the most recent build of HaikuOS running as a stable, usable daily driver, I'm kinda getting used to looking at them on a semi-regular basis.
Not bad! (Bit 'cartoony', I know, but they DO have a certain 'retro' charm all of their own. I like 'em. Waaay better than the current 'fad' for 'flat'-look icons. Urrgh!!)
And now.....back on-topic. (Sorry, Longshanks! The other Mike's advice is always worth taking under advisement, so.....don't ignore him.)
T'other Mike.. 
Haikumod icon theme 'Cartoony'? with 'retro charm'? Just the look I wanted for a desktop with a Puppy 70's rock band featuring an electric guitar on a tropical island playing to an audience of orangutans and a mermaid.
I can't draw my way out of a paper bag. But using gimp I can cut and paste-together any elements I can find. I only get to see the desktop for a couple of seconds before it's covered by windows displaying work. But it only takes a quick glance at 'beachside-rocking' to lighten my day.
"And now.....back on-topic. (Sorry, Longshanks!)" Emphasis supplied.
Already given some good options for what Puppy version to try.
Understand that all Puppy versions are different from the other.
They all follow some basic principles of operation and what is provided.
But each Puppy version developer does their own thing about what it is and what is in it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About doing duel install with Windows and some other Linux OS on the internal drive.
The issue is always about what boot loader is being used to boot it all.
Other Linux operating systems do not understand how to boot a Puppy install.
So if the boot loader being used is their boot loader.
Usually requires a manual entry for Puppy OS in whatever the boot loader menu config file is.
When you get ready to do a duel install with Puppy OS
Make a topic asking specific info on how to do it with Windows, whatever other Linux OS, and Puppy OS.
Puppy may be able to provide a boot loader that can boot them all and have a correct boot loader menu entry for all.
Many thanks all
As requested info I am using an HP 255 G7 laptop (UFEI)
Ryzen 5 3500U
8 GB
256 SSD
AMD co processor Radeon vega I
Windows 11,
I have been using Mint 19.1 on my old 32 bit Dell Latitude in a dual boot with Win 7 for a couple of years until buying the above Laptop as an upgrade of which I have installed Win 11 and Linux Zorin in a dual boot.
Reading a recent article on Linux puppy I have become interested in exploring it as another user option for myself. Although I am an enthusiastic PC user and fiddler I am not an expert but I am a bit more than just a key presser so please understand my niavety when exchanging these requests and comments with the user experts who reply to me on this forum.
regards to all
Brian
Because it is a Ryzen 5 3500U CPU.
I suggest you try Puppy versions using Linux kernels 6 series versions.
support for these CPU's did not really get completely in the kernel until kernel 5.16.
The newer the kernel the better the support will be.
longshanks73 wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 7:04 amReading a recent article on Linux puppy I have become interested in exploring it as another user option for myself. Although I am an enthusiastic PC user and fiddler I am not an expert but I am a bit more than just a key presser so please understand my niavety when exchanging these requests and comments with the user experts who reply to me on this forum.
^^^
Trust me, I don't think any of us would describe ourselves as "experts"..! "Enthusiastic amateurs", possibly....
In my view, you almost HAVE to be a born 'tinkerer' to really enjoy using Puppy. Doesn't mean we don't have our fair share of knowledgeable people, though, because we do.....and of those, we have our coders, developers, promoters, etc, etc.
It wasn't the Puppy article in 'Linux Pro' magazine, by any chance ("Running with the pack")? We helped to shape that one, because the author visited us here on the Forum in order to get an accurate 'feel' for what Puppy is all about. We think he did a pretty good job.....more so than many others have done in the past.
Mike.
hello
Thanks again, As I understand it so far and I maybe wrong is that I can load my selected version of Puppy onto a memory stick and boot it into my laptop and run a session this getting to know it thus keeping my other O/S's in situ?
I have Rufus and balena Etcher installed on my Win 11 partition.
Yes, you can certainly do it that way, Brian. And because of the way Puppy works - unlike virtually all other Linux distros that offer the ability for a "Live" session - if you like the way Puppy runs, you can set up a 'save' (persistence, if you're more familiar with that term) at the end of that first session.....and start personalising/customising it straight-away!
Once you're happy with things (if you want to keep it, that is) - and assuming you're going to run it on the same hardware - you can copy the entire thing across to your main drive, if you wish, so it's then running at SSD speeds. It'll need to be put in an appropriate location, of course (others can help with this), and will need a boot-loader/boot-menu entry added.
You will NOT need to set it up all over again. Not many distros are anywhere near this flexible..! 
Just make sure you initially set it up within its own uniquely-named directory.....and you'll be home & dry.
Mike.
Many thanks Mike this is useful information for me as I am only used to dual booting in the past with Win 7 and Mint on my old 32 bit laptop.
regards
Brian
This ability to run multiple Puppies on the same partition - using sub-directories - is engendered in large part by the fact that Puppy uses a specially-modified version of the OOTB Grub4DOS bootloader.......which has been coded to search TWO "layers" deep to find a bootable kernel. This helps to give Puppy its incredible flexibility, and makes it so easy to run from so many different devices.
Just a wee bit more useless info for ya!
Mike.
I have Rufus and balena Etcher installed on my Win 11 partition.
Rufus is the best choice for installing Puppy to a USB flash drive. DO NOT USE BALENA ETCHER. It will only work for a few Puppy's and even then it does not allow you to create a "save file" (where your changes and added programs are stored) on the USB.
wizard
Do not use balena Etcher. It's one of the many USB-deployers which does NOT deploy Puppys properly. Rufus does, almost all of them except versions 3.18 and maybe 3.19. The latest 4.1 works fine. When configuring Rufus, use the slider to create a persistent partition. See screenshot here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 522#p40522. The partition it will create (Linux Ext3) will enable you to preserve changes: settings --such as wifi-- customizations, and applications you add. When you shut Puppy down the first time you'll be asked if you want to preserve changes. You can select the 2nd (Linux Ext3) partition Rufus created as the location for doing so. You'll have a choice of creating either a SaveFile or a SaveFolder. Select SaveFolder. SaveFile is older technology, but the only one you could use if none of your partitions are Linux-formatted.
Mikeswalsh is right about grub4dos; but you can't use grub4dos with a computer employing the UEFI mechanism. Fortunately, shinobar wrote both grub4dos and grub2config for Puppy. grub2config replaced grub4dos, works the same way and can be used with UEFI computers.
If and when you're ready to deploy one or more Puppys to your hard-drive, ask. Deployment is easy: just copy its files into a folder. But there are a couple of choices in getting a boot-loader to find it. The least intrusive might be --as bigpup mentioned-- to customize the grub2 zorin installed to add a listing for Puppy. The downsides are (1) getting the text right --not hard, but ask; and (2) when zorin updates it will(may?) delete that. So you have to keep a copy somewhere (documents?) and repeat the grub2 customization.
More intrusive, but far easier, is boot up your USB-Puppy into which you've installed grub2config, and have it write to your hard-drive. It will become your main boot-loader listing all Puppys and provide a listing for chain-loading (running) Zorin's grub2 and Windows*.
Or you can avoid all that: Configure your computer to give boot-priority to your USB-ports. Use grub2config to write to a small (even 2 Gb) USB-Key. Plug in the key to boot Puppys; unplug the key to boot Zorin/Windows/ whatever.
Grub2config can be found here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 703#p29703
As bigpup wrote, with Ryzen 5 3500U CPU it's best to start with a Puppy already using a series 6 kernel: Bookworm64pup, F96CE_4, VanillaDPup, or in the 'Derivatives Section' Quickpup and by a curious coincidence, my remaster updating Bionicpup64. But you're not limited to those. If a different Puppy catches your fancy, It takes less than 5 minutes to swap the kernel employed by a Puppy. Again, just ask how.
-=-=-=-=-
* It works with Windows 10. I don't have 11. I don't think the UEFI mechanism has changed.
Many thanks for the heads up, I have always used BalenaEtcher before.
As a practical example of using your Zorin grub2 installation (below I assume Zorin lite, which uses XFCE, but procedure is the same more generally for any Zorin installation).
First become root user in filemanager Thunar via:
Start Menu -> System -> XFCE Terminal (which opens a non-root-user terminal), then inside that terminal I enter command:
sudo thunar (and enter your normal user password, who has sudo rights on my system anyway),
which opens thunar fIlemanager as root user
Then, in that Thunar instance, open the file /etc/grub.d/40_custom in your favourite text editor as root user (e.g. geany).
My /etc/grub.d/40_config includes a whole bunch of KL distros and one Puppy at bottom of the list as follows (you need to use UUID and so on for your own system partitions where the distros are of course):
Code: Select all
#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.
menuentry "KLV" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /KLV/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLV w_changes=RAM2
initrd /KLV/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "KLV-spex" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /KLV-spex/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLV-spex w_changes=RAM2
initrd /KLV-spex/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "KLA-OT2baseCE" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /KLA-OT2baseCE/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLA-OT2baseCE w_changes=RAM2
initrd /KLA-OT2baseCE/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "vanillaOS" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /vanillaOS/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/vanillaOS w_changes=RAM2
initrd /vanillaOS/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "KLA-XFCEbase" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /KLA-XFCEbase/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLA-XFCEbase w_changes=RAM2
initrd /KLA-XFCEbase/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "KLU-jam-XFCEbase" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /KLU-jam-XFCEbase/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLU-jam-XFCEbase
initrd /KLU-jam-XFCEbase/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "KLA-OT2base" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /KLA-OT2base/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLA-OT2base
initrd /KLA-OT2base/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "KLU-jamFE" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
linux /KLU-jamFE/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLU-jamFE
initrd /KLU-jamFE/initrd.gz
}
menuentry "Upup 22.04 - Don't copy SFS files to RAM" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 7d34b88e-bc8e-4bb6-86cf-d619c3b545a9
linux /upup/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pfix=nocopy
initrd /upup/initrd.gz
}Finally, use update-grub command to add that 40_custom to your Zorin grub2 boot up menu as follows:
Open a terminal and enter command:
Code: Select all
sudo update-grubThat's it. Whatever you use, such as in my /etc/grub.d/40_config example above will appear in your Zorin grub2 boot menu when your reboot. Similar procedure also works for most mainstream distro installations.
One caveat, Zorin uses Ubuntu grub2 which expects signed kernel and modules (and possibly more) if you are using Secure Boot. Way out of that is to turn off secure boot in your UEFI BIOS.
NOTE: You can add/delete any such 40_config grub2 stanzas any time you wish per above method. Very versatile; much more convenient than having to use a USB grub2 stick once you have above set up correctly).
All good advice preceding..
Now back to the main theme. Which puppy for a laptop??
Personally I use varieties of LXSC. Slackware based puppy's have been fast, rock stable and the windows manager is flawless.
However, slackware puppys do not have the range of software that debian/ubuntu puppy's have, such as being able to run Libreoffice DRAW, but if you are looking for basic functionality you cant go past its ease of use.
I would install the puppy OS to a USB using Stickpup and try that before doing a frugal install on your laptop.
I almost deleted my post as not on topic! Turns out there were two 'main themes", Puppy type, and how to boot in dual-boot with Windows with OP suggestion of via Zorin grub2.
longshanks73 wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 8:56 am...to run as a live version on my Win 11 64 bit EFI laptop. In doing so I can try it out before installing it in a dual boot. At the moment I have a dual boot with Win 11 and Linux Zorin up and running, Puppy sound a good option.
Yes, it is better to keep individual threads to one topic at a time really, especially since booting is so universal and quite a complex thread topic.