Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

For F96. On the same computer. Can I use the same Save-File that is on the HDD, where F96 is installed - with a USB Flash-Card with F96 installed, both from the same ISO file? And any instructions about how do do that; or will it just work by itself - by booting the Card with the HDD plugged-in? (the HDD F96 already uses that Save-File).

And a question for the future: if I'll get an Internal SSD ― will I be able to move the Save-File onto it, and install the same OS on the SSD? And what if it will be a new version than the ISO file?

Hi @MrAccident :

I don't know if someone will correct me, but I could not do this with my configuration.

It's possible you can do this if no software is installed, or if your system uses the same savefile (I tell u this, because one day I thought it was working but what happened is the USB puppy was using the save file hosted at the SSD), but with two different systems, for me was impossible (without "wasting" a lot of time, haha)

Of course, some other users can tell you that with code you can use the same savefile, but you are going to use a lot of time (as I told u before) to do something it is no useful in the end.

So... two savefiles.-

1.- For the frugal installed puppy in the SSD
2.- For the USB installed puppy

The easiest the best

Have you tried to move the existing save file to this location ?

I used my Puppy as an example and F96 is similar. This is a USB flash drive installation where everything runs from the device.

If you are placing the save file on a new HDD, you will need to specify the location of the save file in order that Grub knows to find it ie mounting your SDD.

I think that it's entirely possible to use the same save file depending on your bootloader. The bootloader stanzas need to be configured to point to the savefile.

However, in my opinion you're better off doing it the way I do it!

I have 6-10 different puppies installed on a master USB drive, and various numbers of puppies installed on hard drives of different machines.

It's far more secure to simply copy the save files from hard drive to USB, then from machine to machine. This way your changes are migrated from machine to USB, machine to machine, etc, and you have ample numbers of backups.

All this approach requires is good organization in naming and renaming savefiles.

After using the pupsave backup routine found in fossapup and other pups, I then rename the backup to reflect whatever information I wish to know about that save. In my case, that might be which machine it came from and the date I made the save. Then I copy it to USB, remove the USB and reboot from the hard drive into the newly created and renamed savefile, so that next time I backup, the name is reflected in the backkup automatically.

It's completely safe and practical to use a savefile created on machine A on machine B, but sometimes as can be seen in my example below, it's more convenient to use savefiles with specific settings for the machine already configured, like monitor settings, audio card settings etc. This example shows jackalpup, an audio based remaster of fossapup, saved with names that reflect the machine and the settings in the specialized jack audio server installed in that remaster:

click on image to enlarge

The strength in this approach is that all machines are backed up, and if I corrupt a savefile on that machine, I can simply copy one from the USB back to the machine, or as the case may be, simply boot from the USB drive.

@geo_c - I didn't really understand the explanation. It seems complicated, and I need something simple. I have a hunch that what I need - wasn't understood, because what I need - seems a very simple thing to me. So I'll explain more thoroughly:
I would like to use the HDD install ― but I have a problem (that I made a separate thread about) - that I don't have Internet Connection - if a faulty Internal SSD isn't plugged into the computer. I can't boot the HDD - when the SSD is plugged-in ― but I can boot the Flash Card, and with Internet Connection. I want to find a way to remove the SSD - and have Internet Connection. So in the meanwhile - I want to use the Card - with a Save File on the HDD, and to configure the system, instead of waiting ― and when I'll be able to use the HDD install with Internet Connection - to continue to use the HDD install with the same Save File.
The HDD Save-File is in /mnt/sda2/F96/fossapup64save . Can I use it with the Card?

geo_c wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 10:12 am

The bootloader stanzas need to be configured to point to the savefile.

specifiying the save location this way is better than expecting your install to search and find a save

can you clarify?

your HDD is external? is it plugged into a USB port?

you mentioned USB-card? Is the card plugged into a USB adaptor?

Is this the same setup you were having difficulty with last week?

I can't boot the HDD - when the SSD is plugged-in

this is quite likely a different issue than the problem you were trying to troubleshoot last week
if you were were to address it, would a setup without the card be preferable?

And a question for the future: if I'll get an Internal SSD ― will I be able to move the Save-File onto it, and install the same OS on the SSD?

yes

And what if it will be a new version than the ISO file?

should you install a newer F96 after you replace the SSD, the old save will most likely work, but it depends of whatever the newer version requires? Is there updated versions available now?

MrAccident wrote: ↑Sun May 14, 2023 1:00 pm

I want to use the Card - with a Save File on the HDD, and to configure the system, instead of waiting ― and when I'll be able to use the HDD install with Internet Connection - to continue to use the HDD install with the same Save File.
The HDD Save File in in /mnt/sda2/F96/fossapup64save . Can I use it with the Card?

Yes, either configure the bootloader on the card to load the savefile from the HDD, or copy the savefile from the HDD to the card (much easier.)

@williwaw has more expertise in boot stanzas than me.

If you simply copy the savefile to the card, once you get the HDD install working again, copy it from the card back to the HDD.

You don't even have to rename the savefile. You can use the same name. I find it helpful to rename.

It's not complicated to backup savefiles and rename them. It's as easy as copying a file and renaming it, as long as you keep the characters to the left of the dash the same.

You are already booting from different media, so all you need to do now is copy the savefile or folder from one medium to another, and this should work as long as your drives are either both in ext format or both in fat32 format. If the drives are formatted differently, there are a couple of considerations.

@williwaw:

your HDD is external? is it plugged into a USB port?

Yes, other than the SSD ― everything is External and USB.

Is this the same setup you were having difficulty with last week?
this is quite likely a different issue

It's the same exact issue.

• I've booted the Card with the HDD connected. It booted automatically with the Save-File on the HDD; so there's no need to set anything. But I can't use it: with the SSD connected ― it doesn't boot; and without the SSD ― there's no Internet Connection.
• With the Card and SSD only - I clicked to saving the session, in the prompt that appears before shut-down ― and it saved it on the Card. So I can use the Card ― but... should I use the Card, with all the Writing? Seems like a bad idea.
• Another option that I see ― is the old HDD I have. The Card, with the SSD connected - boots with that HDD connected (and that's the HDD I'm using with the current FossaPup 9.0.5 Save-File ― and it boots with the SSD connected). But this HDD is NTFS ― so won't there be a problem eventually moving the Save-File to the other ext4 HDD? If it's fine - how to create a Save-File on it?

Can I use the same Save-File that is on the HDD, where F96 is installed - with a USB Flash-Card with F96 installed, both from the same ISO file?

yes

With the Card and SSD only - I clicked to saving the session, in the prompt that appears before shut-down ― and it saved it on the Card. So I can use the Card ― but... should I use the Card, with all the Writing? Seems like a bad idea.

if your internet works, OK for now I guess, but it does seem some improvements could be made.

does this set up boot fast or slow?

if you have multiple usb devices plugged in, (card and hdd) I can see difficulties ubtil you get sorted.
searching disks may time out while looking for saves (long boots) or ther first usb device found may take precedence at boot time . hopefully you can start with a new ssd, whose install has the save
if a new ssd is not in the picture, can you find a usb flash drive to substute for the card? a card in an internal card reader can be friendlier than a card in a usb card reader.

www.amazon.com/Samsung-256GB-PM991-MZAL ... B08K79T9G5

heres a samsung for 20 bucks? I would expect to pay the same for a quality usb flash drive
the m2 comes in different lengths (form factors)
the above is a 2242, ie 42 mm long
some laptops have longer slots and allow longer m2's

Hello @MrAccident

Sounds liike your system use is similar/same as mine.

This might help you arrive at a carefree solution for current and modern forum distros. I think you will find this simple and obvious and is ONLY DONE ONCE for the life of the PC:

1. I have one Partition on each PC's system drive that is labeled "Persistence".

2. On that partition it has a folder named "Sessions".

3. ALL, repeating, all forum distros are guided to saving sessions in that folder, forevermore.

Note: I format MY partition with a Linux partition since my Windows use would never have any "interest" in this partition.

For past 4 years, I have NEVER "installed" any forum distros. ALL are booted directly from their ISO/IMG files where I get the FULL distro experience. Expect the same in your cases.

I boot the downloaded forum distros via a USB (Ventoy or SG2D) where ALL, repeating, all distros are kept in its folder named "BOOTISOS" on the USB. Like the sessions folder, the USB is created ONLY ONCE and forevermore used by merely downloading ISOs/IMGs files to the BOOTISOS folder on the USB whenever I choose.

The saves are guided to this partition in MOST cases by some actions that can occur automatically at boot-time. This guidance is done in many modern cases by the way the forum distros are built. For WoofCE PUPs, @gyrog has a several year old feature where a PUP, pristine or otherwise, looks for a SAVEFILE (yes that its filename) in the folder with the ISOs which tells any WoofCE PUP the folder that contains/stores Sessions. PUPs have intelligence built in to handle single or multiple saves it finds in that folder and will present the list if there are multiple for a given PUP. The benefit: No user action is necessary at PUP's menu for finding and using your saved sessions.

Other forum distro family handle finding their session a little different and is dependent on the family. For example, the KL's make it easy and obvious for their user community directly in the initial Menu.

In Summary: My system frugal operations is merely only 2 component that DO NOT require any manipulations:

1. Having a folder for ALL sessions to be saved

2. Having a folder on the Boot media with all ISO/IMG files

That's it; and I boot with no action necessary upon downloading the forum's distro file.

Hope this makes Session Management easy for you/anyone.

The PUPPY Linux Forum's Development community has created this foundational structure for this to be possible for simple and easy user benefit.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

Clarity wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 7:24 pm

Hello @MrAccident

Sounds liike your system use is similar/same as mine.

This might help you arrive at a carefree solution for current and modern forum distros. I think you will find this simple and obvious and is ONLY DONE ONCE for the life of the PC:

1. I have one Partition on each PC's system drive that is labeled "Persistence".

2. On that partition it has a folder named "Sessions".

3. ALL, repeating, all forum distros are guided to saving sessions in that folder, forevermore.

Note: I format MY partition with a Linux partition since my Windows use would never have any "interest" in this partition.

For past 4 years, I have NEVER "installed" any forum distros. ALL are booted directly from their ISO/IMG files where I get the FULL distro experience. Expect the same in your cases.

I boot the downloaded forum distros via a USB (Ventoy or SG2D) where ALL, repeating, all distros are kept in its folder named "BOOTISOS" on the USB. Like the sessions folder, the USB is created ONLY ONCE and forevermore used by merely downloading ISOs/IMGs files to the BOOTISOS folder on the USB whenever I choose.

The saves are guided to this partition in MOST cases by some actions that can occur automatically at boot-time. This guidance is done in many modern cases by the way the forum distros are built. For WoofCE PUPs, @gyrog has a several year old feature where a PUP, pristine or otherwise, looks for a SAVEFILE (yes that its filename) in the folder with the ISOs which tells any WoofCE PUP the folder that contains/stores Sessions. PUPs have intelligence built in to handle single or multiple saves it finds in that folder and will present the list if there are multiple for a given PUP. The benefit: No user action is necessary at PUP's menu for finding and using your saved sessions.

Other forum distro family handle finding their session a little different and is dependent on the family. For example, the KL's make it easy and obvious for their user community directly in the initial Menu.

In Summary: My system frugal operations is merely only 2 component that DO NOT require any manipulations:

1. Having a folder for ALL sessions to be saved

2. Having a folder on the Boot media with all ISO/IMG files

That's it; and I boot with no action necessary upon downloading the forum's distro file.

Hope this makes Session Management easy for you/anyone.

The PUPPY Linux Forum's Development community has created this foundational structure for this to be possible for simple and easy user benefit.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

how does this proselytizing help the OP solve his problem?
you are suggesting he reformat his disks?
install third party apps?

@williwaw - to clarify ― the only thing I wanted to know ― is should I use a Save-File on the Flash Card ― because it's considered to be best to Read & (mostly)Write to it - as little as possible. So probably better to use the NTFS HDD (since it's the only one that can be connected at boot). I don't have any other problems (I'm using the FossaPup 9.0.5 Flash Card for almost a year). So if the NTFS HDD ― how to create a Save-File on it from F96?

@Clarity - Thanks, but I don't need sessions; I will always only need 1.

@williwaw - forgot, thanks for the tip about a new SSD. I thought I'll continue with SSDs - so I haven't searched for a small one ― so didn't realize they can be so cheap. Since I'm going with HDDs ― I can even do with one only for Puppy, so much much smaller than 256G.

So if the NTFS HDD ― how to create a Save-File on it from F96?

if I understand you question correctly, you want to copy a savefile from a FossaPup 9.0.5 install to be used by a F96 install?
this should be a question asked in the F96 section

creating a new savefile for F96 can be accomplished by booting into ram, basically a first run pupmode where you will be asked to create a savefile. append the savefilename with something different from any exisitng savefiles

williwaw wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 6:20 pm

1. how does this proselytizing help the OP solve his problem?

2. you are suggesting he reformat his disks?

3. install third party apps?

1. It is merely a solution that I know works with several years of successful operations.

2. Not reformat, merely carve some space, if available and keep all his sessions in that partition

3. I think you may be misunderstanding how this works. There is no 3rd party apps installed to his Fosss/F96. Merely make a simple bootable USB and boot all forum distro saving session where he wants to keep them.

@MrAccident I agree that keeping your sessions on your system-drive is a better option for maintaining all your sessions. Lots of reason this is a better solution.

And an SSD connected to your system motherboard as a system drive is a great performance boost.

Lastly, as explained, you should be able to save sessions without issues on your current system-drive as a save-file. Forum distros do not afford save-folder on NTFS so save-file will be offered from a pristine boot.

@williwaw - i realized the Saves in F96 are not in a file - but in a folder. Anyway - it seems too complicated ― so I'll buy an M.2 SSD, and then will work on F96.
BTW - how to know what Form Factor I need? My PC says "M.2 NVME" ― is that what I need to search for?

a savefolder will need to be on an ext filesystem, as the ntfs only works with a savefile.

My PC says "M.2 NVME

what is the m2 you are replacing say on it and look like?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gl ... ,5887.html

I usually look for name brand, but the size offered a few years back for the best value

there is always a chance your ssd is good but the slot is bad, in which case you might be able to recover your data on another machine easily or with a m2 to USB adaptor (about the same price as the ssd)

@williwaw:
The SSD was checked ― it doesn't work.
Mine is 80mm. And the place of the screw ― is exactly where the hole is. So I guess that's the only one that will fit; or is it possible to go with a smaller one?

MrAccident wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2023 8:02 pm

So I guess that's the only one that will fit

most likely,
as I mentioned earlier, I find value in the better better brands that have been discounted for having the storage capacity
marketed a few years back
even then I do not use much of the capacity, such that as it wears it can still keep everything needed uncorrupted.

I read somewhere spinning disks hdd can retain information longer than flash memory, and tend to archive seldom accessed info on an old hdd via USB

MrAccident wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 10:10 pm

@williwaw - i realized the Saves in F96 are not in a file - but in a folder. Anyway - it seems too complicated ― so I'll buy an M.2 SSD, and then will work on F96.
BTW - how to know what Form Factor I need? My PC says "M.2 NVME" ― is that what I need to search for?

Yes, but I do not think you will find an M.2 SSD that is not using the NVME interface.

M. 2 is the SSD form factor, while NVMe is the interface that connects it to the motherboard.

Also you will probably see something about PCIe gen 3 0r 4.

If your computer motherboard is PCIe gen 3.

You are wasting money on a higher price for PCIe gen 4 m2 SSD.

Where you get the SSD and price is something to consider.

SSD scam

@williwaw:

better brands that have been discounted for having the storage capacity
marketed a few years back

I don't understand this sentence. You mean - better brands - that have a small capacity ― so people don't want to buy them - so they cost less?
@bigpup - I don't know how to find what gen it is (probably the older ― cause it's literally the cheapest computer I found on eBay) ― but I doubt I'll waste money - cause I simply start from lowest price.
I know all about the scams ― I bought 2 fake SSDs (got my money back). That's why I'm going with HDDs for storage. But probably best to have an SSD for the OS & programs, and some quick downloads etc.

better brands - that have a small capacity ― so people don't want to buy them - so they cost less?

yes, a top of the line quality samsung a few years back may ony store 256 or 500 GB, but is not in demand so much anymore because larger capicity drives are being pushed out to the market.

I forgot about my original question. Even thought it's not relevant, but in general - would I be able to use\replace the same Save Folder, on a Flash Card and HDD and SSD, if they all use ext4?

It does not matter what ext format is on the different drives.

A save folder can be copied to any Linux ext format 2, 3, or 4 from any of those formats.

@bigpup - OK, in what circumstances - I shouldn't use the same Save:
⚬When upgrading to a new version of Puppy?
⚬When using a different computer\hardware?

a save made for a specific Puppy version is for that specific Puppy version.

Should not try to use it on a different Puppy version.
Will not work, because the Puppy versions are too different, and the save file/folder name will be wrong.

Using a save on a different computer, it was made on, can have hardware setting problems.
The common stuff, keyboard, mouse, basic graphics will work usually OK.
Network connection, WIFI hardware settings, graphics hardware monitor settings, usually have to be adjusted for the new hardware.
Basically what you do for settings, when you first time boot Puppy Linux.
How much needing setting changes, depends on how different the hardware.

It's fine to use a savefile on fat32, ext4/3/2, and copy them back and forth. That works. It's just a file.

What you can't do is use a save FOLDER on fat32. Save Folders only work on linux partitions.

Alright, I guess that will be all.
Thanks.