Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(note: I'm going to explain a lot of issues ― but I only care about having an Internet Connection with the newly installed F96; so you don't have to waste time on thinking about how to solve the rest of the issues and details, but they are likely important to mention)
It all started from a computer I bought a few years back. It came with an inner SSD. I installed FossaPup 9.0.5 from the same ISO file, on a Flash Card and the inner SSD. I normally used the SSD as my OS. The SSD stopped working a while ago. I want to send it to a Lab. But strange things happen when I remove it, which make it impossible to use the computer without it plugged:
• Since it stopped working ― I'm normally using the Flash Card OS, with a new Save File I created on an External HDD. I can't boot it without the SSD being inside the computer. Specifically: it goes through the whole process of booting, and right at the end - the black screen with the blinking underscore at the top-left corner - just stays; and when I click on the Power Button of the computer - there's a message about Puppy shutting down, and it does so. So it's like - the final Graphical Interface - doesn't start. A Computer Technician gave a hypothesis ― that the SSD partially works, and contains some booting files, or something similar. And because it's the same system in the Flash Card ― I can't boot it without the SSD inside.
• I now installed F96 on another Flash Key and another new HDD. Here - some new issues come up. Some are the opposite; for instance ― when I boot the HDD, with the SSD plugged ― the same thing happens - with the black screen and underscore (with the SSD unplugged, in the other case).
• The F96 HDD and Flash Card - boot without the SSD ― but without an Internet Connection. I tried to boot the HDD and Card with the SSD unplugged, many times ― and it's always without Internet Connection.
• The F96 HDD with the SSD inside - doesn't boot ― but the Card does; and with Internet Connection.
• So I need to boot the HDD (and\or Card) - without the SSD, and with Internet Connection. Why would the Internet Connection be related to the SSD? BTW - I know I can remove the SSD, with FossaPup 9.0.5 running ― and it continues to work, and the Internet Connection stays.

Another detail: with the SSD inside:
• In the beginning - I have to click on ESC or DEL to enter Bios - to select which device to boot. When the SSD is unplugged ― it just boots.
• And everything happens super slowly. Without it - fast.

(edit) Continue from this comment, where I found additional information (and skip irrelevant comments).

• The F96 HDD and Flash Card - boot without the SSD ― but without an Internet Connection. I tried to boot the HDD and Card with the SSD unplugged, many times ― and it's always without Internet Connection.

To start from new,
the data needed for an internet connection exist in a save file folder. try to boot into ram and you should have an opportunity to create a new savefile/folder. name it something different from any earlier saves.

• The F96 HDD with the SSD inside - doesn't boot ― but the Card does; and with Internet Connection.

the card install could be using the saves on the SSD. Try to copy the ssd save over to the card in case the ssd is failing.

if your saves are named something like fossapup64save-xxx, then keep the fossapup64save part of the name and rename by appending something unique in place of whatever you have instead of the -xxx part

@williwaw:
• I have created a Save File for the HDD, and it is new.
• The Card prompts for a Save File creation at log-out ― so it doesn't use a Save File. It has to be something else.
P.S. - the SSD can't be seen ― so even if it physically partially works ― it's next to Dead.

if the ssd has failed, unplug it and maybe try to recover data another day.

Boot using your card without any other drives or USBs connected, then try to create a save after you configure your internet.

@williwaw Sorry, but it doesn't make sense. The Internet Connection happens automatically, and does not require a Save File. (Normally, sometimes after booting - there is no Internet Connection ― and then I can't configure it; I just reboot).
(with the Card) When the (dead)SSD is plugged-in - there is Internet Connection ― when it's not plugged-in - there isn't Internet Connection.

I may have made a poor assumption when advising. if your connection is thu an ethernet cable, it should be automatic. if it is wireless, then your password would be stored in the save file.

if you are using an ethernet cable, should be automatic is still a "should"

perhaps the title of the thread should be "how to get internet working in F96"

@williwaw:
• It is Ethernet Cable.
• It is automatic, when the SSD is inside.

Maybe I can generate some report... something more scientific? For instance booting the Card with the SSD, and then without (since only the Card boots with and without).

@MrAccident :-

Not intending to "muddy the waters", but on a different - though related - note, please don't delete the post title on every reply you make. During the time it shows on the 'front page', people have absolutely NO idea what it is you're replying TO.

This IS mainly for your benefit. By deleting/removing the post title, you're not helping yourself. I hope that makes sense?

Mike.

I think the ssd is a red herring.

reinstall F96 on your preferred card/hdd
boot with that disk only plugged in

@mikewalsh - There was an instruction I read a while ago - to delete the title; that's what I've been following X-D.

@williwaw:

I think the ssd is a red herring.

Maybe you didn't want to read my explanation again ― but I have explained everything there. I installed F96 the day before I made this topic ― why would it change anything to reinstall it now? I have booted "with that disk only plugged in"; that's what results with not having Internet Connection. The difference is only whether the SSD is plugged-in or not.

why would it change anything to reinstall it now? I have booted "with that disk only plugged in"; that's what results with not having Internet Connection.

to attempt to eliminate the possibility of a corrupted install before trying to troubleshoot your BIOS. verify the checksum and redownload if neccesary.

Let me see if I have this straight.

You can boot fossapup94_9.5 from an external drive (USB) without the SSD, and you have a network connection.

You cannot boot F96 with a network connection either with SSD plugged in it, because boot fails, or with SSD removed, because the network connection isn't there.

Could it be that F96 and whatever kernel modules, or firmware are included aren't compatible with your network hardware, eth0?

Perhaps you need the proper driver installed in F96. If I have the above scenario correct.

@geo_c - well, the short answer - is no... you didn't get anything correctly . I know, it's a very complicated issue. More specifically:

You can boot fossapup94_9.5 from an external drive (USB) without the SSD, and you have a network connection.

I can boot the "old" FossaPup 9.0.5 ― only when the SSD is plugged-in; otherwise it's stuck at the black screen at the end. And there is Internet.

You cannot boot F96 with a network connection either with SSD plugged in it, because boot fails, or with SSD removed, because the network connection isn't there.

Didn't really understand that. With the F96 HDD I cannot boot with the SSD. With the F96 Card ― I can boot with or without the SSD: with - there is Internet ― without - there isn't. F96 HDD can boot without the SSD ― but also without Internet.
As for the rest ― everything's possible. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But since the Card boots with Internet - when the SSD is plugged-in ― then it probably can connect, unless the SSD is the Network Hardware .

MrAccident wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 2:43 am

@geo_c - well, the short answer - is no... you didn't get anything correctly . I know, it's a very complicated issue. More specifically:

You can boot fossapup94_9.5 from an external drive (USB) without the SSD, and you have a network connection.

I can boot the "old" FossaPup 9.0.5 ― only when the SSD is plugged-in; otherwise it's stuck at the black screen at the end. And there is Internet.

You cannot boot F96 with a network connection either with SSD plugged in it, because boot fails, or with SSD removed, because the network connection isn't there.

Didn't really understand that. With the F96 HDD I cannot boot with the SSD. With the F96 Card ― I can boot with or without the SSD: with - there is Internet ― without - there isn't. F96 HDD can boot without the SSD ― but also without Internet.
As for the rest ― everything's possible. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But since the Card boots with Internet - when the SSD is plugged-in ― then it probably can connect, unless the SSD is the Network Hardware .

Okay, that seems to me then that somehow when you unplug the SSD it's breaking a physical connection to the network card, either on the power rail or bus. But I'm no technician.

@geo_c - well, then I'll ask my dad to look at that; who is a Technician; not a Computer Technician, but a general one .
Thanks.

Another detail: with the SSD inside:
• In the beginning - I have to click on ESC or DEL to enter Bios - to select which device to boot. When the SSD is unplugged ― it just boots.
• And everything happens super slowly. Without it - fast.

have you tried to terminate the ethernet connection, then bring it back up with the network manager?

perhaps the faster boot misses making a proper connection

@williwaw - unplugging the cable and plug it in again? And what do I do in the Network Manager?

I've done some experiments ― and there's new and more precise information:
• I've booted the F96 HDD - in 2 different ways. I'll first give the conclusion - so you'll know how to interpret the results in advance. My understanding is that whatever happens ― happens before the initial BIOS\"American Megatrends" screen comes-up. Here's how it worked:
◇ I've booted the computer with the SSD plugged-in, and when the initial screen came-up - the one that asks to click on ESC or DEL ― I've unplugged the SSD. It still waited for me to enter BIOS and choose what device to load. And the boot process became stuck at the final moment at the black screen; even though the SSD was no longer plugged-in.
◇ I've booted the computer with the SSD unplugged, and when the initial screen came-up ― I've plugged the SSD in. The system booted successfully.
• Did the same thing with the F96 Card. The results:
◇ With the SSD initially plugged-in, but then taken out ― there was Internet Connection.
◇ With the SSD initially unplugged, but then plugged-in ― there wasn't Internet Connection.

So I guess it relates to some settings in the BIOS?

@williwaw - I made the Checksum on the file - and it's fine.

• Did the same thing with the F96 Card. The results:
◇ With the SSD initially plugged-in, but then taken out ― there was Internet Connection.
◇ With the SSD initially unplugged, but then plugged-in ― there wasn't Internet Connection.

with this testing, did the boot that resulted in a connection take longer?

So I guess it relates to some settings in the BIOS?

your guess might be premature
plugging and unplugging disks at boot time seems iffy

Boot the card with F96. plug it in before you turn the machine on.
leave the ssd unplugged and out of the test entirely.

It boots with out the connection. correct?

I dunno what network manager F96 uses, but it should be found under menu > internet. (you might find a couple of tools)

once the machine is fully booted into a desktop, try to connect eth0, presuming it shows as as an available interface

if it seems to be not only available but active, then disconnect and try reconnecting

@williwaw

with this testing, did the boot that resulted in a connection take longer?

I think so; not absolutely certain.

plugging and unplugging disks at boot time seems iffy

This shows that the results are exactly the same, when I plug|unplug - before Puppy starts to boot. So it's quite certain that the SSD doesn't relate to Puppy - but to the computer. It's quite a certain result.
And the fact is that it simply connects to the Internet - every time the SSD is initially connected, and doesn't connect when the SSD is not connected.

Boot the card with F96. plug it in before you turn the machine on.
leave the ssd unplugged and out of the test entirely.
It boots with out the connection. correct?

Correct.

I dunno what network manager F96 uses, but it should be found under menu > internet. (you might find a couple of tools)

There are 2, and a switcher tool; as far as I saw. The default is one I haven't seen before, and the other is the normal one; and I've tried the other one as well, rebooted ― and it's still didn't work (that's with the HDD ― because the Card can't remember a choice after reboot).

once the machine is fully booted into a desktop, try to connect eth0, presuming it shows as as an available interface
if it seems to be not only available but active, then disconnect and try reconnecting

I don't know what eth0 is, and didn't understand the rest.
But in general - configuring the Network Manager ― never ever worked for me; either it connects or not(thus reboot).

replace your ssd with the hdd if you want to rule out a problem with the card

@williwaw - it's an Internal SSD - it plugs directly \ into a special socket; and unfortunately - I don't have anything that can plug into that.

I am guessing something like a Msata or M2 ?
if so, taking it in and out at boot time seems even iffier
if it can be easily removed it can be easily replaced also

@williwaw:

Msata or M2 ?

M2.

if it can be easily removed it can be easily replaced also

If I would have something to replace it with. I may find something, through some connections.