Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Samba

Samba

Ventoy

Samba

I don't get it.

@dimkr :-

Umm.....would you care to enlighten the rest of us..?

Mike.

Huh. Don't tell me. This has got summat to do with Clarity.....yes?

Mike.

Great! You get it.

Maybe it's time to open a Samba forum and a Ventoy/S2GD/boot loader forum. So many threads are littered with replies about these topics and this probably doesn't help anyone, including people who care about these topics and the developers who are supposed to do some work.

I do feel that SG2D/Ventoy and similar are important topics with useful functionality and, to be fair, had it not been for Clarity's continued (and admittedly annoying to me) insistence about these, they might well have remained as somewhat neglected topics.

However... too much is too much and making the matter worst is that topics about these are now scattered all over the forum with repeat and repeat and thus redundant information. The people being forced to read that repeated information are almost certainly the same people that found themselves reading them in the first place. Who likes to be told twice like alone ten times? Problem becomes that repeat posts of such nature end up having the opposite effect to that the poster intended - people turn away and refuse to participate in further development and especially not in these directions. On the whole, my own participation/contributions have gone downhill because I am genuinely busy on other priority matters, but, that is not the only reason - repeated re-posting of same information and especially when sounding like 'demands' completely turned me off such that even if my other priorities were all completed I doubt I would feel like returning to much development work at all. Yes, a little, in my own time, but I'd resist doing anything 'demanded' - I have my own wishes and priorities - the likes of Samba I feel like having nothing to do with - the whole insistence for its conclusion turned me off even thinking about it. Seeing rockedge and Sofiya bending to the insistence and working on its inclusion in KLV, actually annoyed me, despite their success - fact is I just don't like anyone pushing for inclusion without their doing most of the initial technical work involved - then I would happily contribute. So there it is... I appreciate the wishes of others and sometimes even the logical reason for their wishes, but overall that method of pushing for something is not an acceptable approach in my opinion - sorry.

SG2D remains a useful technique if only in case it ever improves in implementation. I actually do not at all like SG2D - its a messy approach. Ventoy ends up being a much nicer approach when the whole point of such techniques has to be making installations easier and more user-friendly - SG2D fails miserably in its attempt to do that whereas Ventoy is pretty good when you can get it to work (and if you can get it to work with save persistence). Problem with Ventoy it needs special initrd support and the complexity of implementing such support should not be underestimated - but yes, it works so as long as people use it a lot then it is work supporting longterm. However... we don't need more all-over-the-forum posts about any of that stuff or indeed Samba. They deserve one thread each that can be added to over time and used as a forum resource and discussion thread, but repeat information is just painfully wasting everyone's time and turning us off and away from contributing IMO. Please stop. One thread for each and keep the posts short and non-repetitive or no-one will stay here to read!

Similarly for QEMU, which has been around for a long time along with other VM techniques. A thread for each - no one 'owns' the information and technical knowledge concerning any of these - they are well-known and developed elsewhere - we are all perfectly capable of searching the Internet for information about them and do... I really hate 'FYI: "for your information"' posts, which ridiculously tend to suggest we all do not already read widely about all such topics. Again I say, Please Stop! by all means let us all provide useful commandlines and techniques for using all of SG2D/Ventoy/SAMBA/QEMU... and so on, but not 'informative posts' PLEASE!!! We are not DAFT, none of us, and not uninformed any more than YOU (whoever you may be) are. STOP IT!!! Okay, no harm in one FYI post now and then, but repeat repeat repeat ad nauseam - please - nauseam means nauseam.

Goodbye again for now. I find it all too painful to read or write here, but just hope such repeat push push push posts will disappear and never return.

@Hi @wiak :

I agree with you but I think the reason that makes this happen is that this forum is a place to share information, share interests, ask about doubts, change impresions, share.... so many things that need a really well organized forum design, and no one can do this for free.

It could be fantastic organice this page with "amazon dispossition", a place where you can find everything you are searching for (a place for news, a place for coding, a place for last ideas, a place for...) but here we have to do other thing for earning money and live, haha.

Don't missunderstand me, please, I agree with your comment, there are things repeated one time and another, but it is due to the difficilties when you are looking for posts, when you are looking for info and because although @rockedge made a fantastic disposición of this new forum asking users about their suggestions, viewtopic.php?t=131, there are things really difficult to do if you are not working 24/7 on forum.puppy and to do this "workers" are needed.

There could be a lot of incongruences and problems, but if only one user find solution to his problems we could be happy.

Have a nice day u all and enjoy puppy as much as u can, because it is a system made for users (and ALL of us are "the users")

CHEERS.

A quick advanced search shows that Clarity has made about 1/4 of references to both samba & ventoy.
I see that as being his interest, so have an occasional look.
Under 'Instructional' there are 'Boot' & 'Network/Server' sections. Perhaps ventoy & samba
should be discussed there, but that's up to the mods.

@dimkr / @ozsouth / @wiak :-

I deleted what was in this post, because it was nothing but personal comments about a member of this forum.

This is not allowed in this forum.

My "problem" with Clarity is quite simple. As noted, he "pushes" and repeatedly "pushes" for inclusion of various technologies within the Puppy eco-system.....but does he contribute one, single scrap of original code?

NO.

Well it's true but then not everyone can contribute with some coding. I will say that he does seem to do quite a bit of testing which can be useful.

"Clarity" is the same individual as "gcmartin"

Quite, I would be surprised if it's someone else. Same irritating posting style.

mikewalsh wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 11:37 am

"pushes" and repeatedly "pushes" for inclusion of various technologies within the Puppy eco-system

What bothers me is not this person or that person, but the constant nag about these subjects (which I find unimportant, it's always <=1 people asking for this), and the way they somehow appear in many threads which are clearly not related. One thread or one forum should be enough to group all these posts together. If people don't obey "don't s*** where you eat" and refuse to put their posts where they belong, maybe they shouldn't post these annoying distractions.

pp4mnklinux wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 9:22 am

Don't missunderstand me, please, I agree with your comment, there are things repeated one time and another, but it is due to the difficilties when you are looking for posts, when you are looking for info and because although @rockedge made a fantastic disposición of this new forum asking users about their suggestions, viewtopic.php?t=131, there are things really difficult to do if you are not working 24/7 on forum.puppy and to do this "workers" are needed.

That's really not what I'm talking about though. Yes, this is an open for forum; it's not some kind of organised Wiki or database so like any forum it is really impossible, and not even a good idea, to try and make it what it is not, and it really isn't a good venue for organising information. However... what I think isn't necessary is to repeatedly hark on about same topic with same information time and time again. Being an open forum for ideas and so on, it is not that any ideas genuinely made should ever be banned per se, but there surely comes a point when we have to say, hey... cool it... we heard you. It is a matter of polite etiquette really, which is important long term if a forum is to remain a pleasant environment for all and sundry to continue to want to come here. Certainly, some of the many arguments that occasionally flare up here, are worse, and no denying that. Still, at least a little bit of organisation concerning major topics, and Ventoy and so on are certainly important and interesting topics would be helpful whereas posting same info and desires about their use and development gets, frankly, over-the-top, and I have to agree: annoying.

Really, I don't like criticising anyone about this. Overall I myself have a lot of time for Clarity - some of his/her remarks have been spot on and some feedback truly very useful indeed, but it is a fact that it is important to not over-push any topic in what comes across as loud and too insistent - that's all. I just think we should all step back now and again and read what others say in response and recognise when we are going too far - arguments and so on will always sometimes flare up - alas, we are all human in that respect, but such incidents are temporary and generally can be controlled. In any and either case it is important to try and support the forum overall as a friendly and attractive venue. Like I said, ad nauseam repetition and promotion of same technology in the same way over and over again does nothing in the end but harm the very cause being pushed for. It does become painful - I think many here agree. No personal offence intended, and I have no doubt all intentions in above regards are good. Sorry to criticise really, but it does become 'tiring'.

Some of us old farts might remember 'Ecomoney' from the old forum. While his intentions were good - he was involved in some community IT project, he would keep badgering to have certain software included. As with Clarity, is was often stuff that could easily be added by a user, but for some reason it really really had to be in the ISO. There was a lot of drama in the end...

Keef wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 1:26 pm

There was a lot of drama in the end...

Drama is OK and even can be fun, as long as it's in the section of the forum dedicated to drama, and happens only once

Seeing rockedge and Sofiya bending to the insistence and working on its inclusion in KLV, actually annoyed me, despite their success

I put SAMBA in because I USE IT and I wanted too or what am I supposed to say here?

I feel I offer enough variations in distro's with or without certain features. I feel I put in enough effort EVERYDAY to control the same topics over and over again.

Ever read a newspaper? Same stuff over and over like endless slaughter, hunger, uncertainty and lies piled on top of lies.

rockedge wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 2:27 pm

I put SAMBA in because I USE IT and I wanted too or what am I supposed to say here?

Not at all suggesting that SAMBA isn't useful, or for some, and good job fitting it in to the KLV design. My feeling of annoyance was neither with samba or its inclusion per se, it was with repetitive pressure intended apparently to force its inclusion. Yes, I'm sure it's very useful to several if not many people and I don't mind at all that it is not routinely useful for me!

But do you really find that repetition of horrendous news in the media acceptable? I find it depressing. Each to their own certainly, but there are limits beyond which silence in response is unlikely.

My name is mentioned quite a bit as a proponent for usefulness of products.

This thread was opened with 1 word. There is NO context by the author...just a word.

There is and has never been anything wrong with:

• Questioning the viability of a decision, nor

• Asking for a product consideration.

I will address 3 things in this and subsequent posts

1. SAMBA

2. ISO file boot helpers

3. @mikewalsh's behavior who has been asked, repeatedly to stop attacking me at every opportunity he finds with his absurd claims he makes. Yet, because of his moderator status...he continues year-in and year-out.

SAMBA

Everyone one of us who has ever used Microsoft or MACs for the almost 3 decades understand how to share information on their PC with other LAN users. This is an important part of the modern operating systems. This is officially known as ‘smb sharing’ named around the international protocol for information exchange.

For any user of Microsoft/MACs they do NOT know of a ‘separate’ name for this ability to share content as it is just a part of their PC’s system. By 1998, every UNIX OS for its users had sharing included. In the UNIX-Linux world, the primary PRODUCT is named SAMBA developed in 1992-1994 by Andy Trugell from Australia if memory serves me correctly. By 2004-2006 ALL Major Linux distributions were including this smb sharing; namely SAMBA, in their distributions. It was made available in various user-facing ways, but it allowed it admin users to simply and easily setup and use by making it easy for users to turn-on.

For almost 2 decades, ALL of the major Linux desktops have smb sharing built-in.  And for a very good reason: They recognized 2 important facts:

• that Linux is just one of the members on a local home network and embraces Linux to being as capable, 'out-of-the-box' (OOTB) as MS/MAC PCs with the same sharing that other PCs use and understand.

• They recognized the difficulty that normal users run into in attempting package installation; so to reduce their user support workload, they include it within their distros, OOTB.

Today, A user running his system, which has some content on their PC, can easily share that content with the services or utilities enclosed in the operating system.

In Puppy, it was a little late to the game especially in light that @01micko and others - together almost a decade ago - had solved this for the Puppy Linux community in my research.  In fact, it is my personal view that the Puppy Linux implementation is the MOST ADVANCED SAMBA DESKTOP implementation on the planet for home desktop users as anyone can easily use and understand how to use with how it is designed via the PUPPY utility, the Simple SAMBA Management found in the PUP menu. It is just, flatly, simple with little to no questions for support seen on this forum in its use by users.

It is just simple, unseen, and serving without issues both for users and development alike.

In today's world, almost every LAN product we users have, is capable of using information shared by our PUPs thanks to this important work done by the Puppy developers mentioned. Almost everyone who has a PC also has a TV, a phone, another home PC, etc which all have the ability to use information shared by today’s forum distros. Puppy has the simple ability to do this.

And, although not discussed AFAIC no one has commented that a forum distro could become a simple HOME NAS service for any user so needing one with NO NEED TO INSTALL ANYTHING to be dedicated to such,

Lastly, of the various forum distros and other distros and operating-systems, no products are needed to be installed as all have the ability to do smb sharing without the need to install anything at all.

So, what I THINK (and I AM NOT CERTAIN), we may be on the verge of losing this important part of the Puppy landscape...thrusting the users into having to search and make mistakes in efforts to add smb sharing to Puppy, if it is removed from OOTB. It opens the user community to appeal to forum expertise for installation support as well as diagnosis when thing go wrong when attempting to figure out how to replicate what use to be a staple in today’s forum distro.

WE HAVE NO WAR WITH SMB SHARING...OR am I missing something in this opened thread?

The implementation of WoofCE PUPs of the past have been rock solid. SAMBA continues to have worldwide development to ensure secure and stable use in the Lunix/Unix PCs as well as being supportive of all smb, sharing and such, for everything in one’s use at home.

Lastly, almost every world developer, too,  uses smb sharing in their local LAN use from time to time. I will also be first to admit that there are others who make it a choice to NOT use smb sharing...but that is a user choice!

If WoofCE development has found something that is negatively impacted system stability, I am unaware. Even so, I have NOT seen any bug reports to the SAMBA world by anyone from WoofCE thus one can conclude, SAMBA is stable in WoofCE PUPs that are generated.

If it HAS caused user failures, I dont see the evidence of such either on the forum or across the spectrum of GITHUB. And, what I do know, is that the worldwide community of SAMBA developers and supporters are extremely quick to resolving and addressing related issues. This is a 3 decades FACT.

I am sure almost everyone is aware of the notes of this post. It could be useful in ANY decision-making developers embrace for forum users.

Hope this is helpful. I ask that we stay on TOPIC and not have this POST OR THREAD degenerate into attacks, please.

But do you really find that repetition of horrendous news in the media acceptable? I find it depressing. Each to their own certainly, but there are limits beyond which silence in response is unlikely.

No not acceptable. Feels like indoctrination and very depressing. The news media in this country is a for profit endeavor so ratings count....and some news sells better than other news.

What bothers me is not this person or that person, but the constant nag about these subjects

I feel exactly the same way when being repeatedly told about working on Puppy Linux distro's and not adding the work into woof-CE........over and over......

Clarity wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 5:18 pm

facts

Let's agree to disagree, but only in one place and in a thread dedicated to Samba

@dimkr I have one question of you as I try to entertain, WHY, this thread was opened assuming it was for genuine concern of the products you mention.

One at a time: SAMBA first.

If in PUP's history, why has this suddenly gotten your attention? Has something surfaced on SAMBA stability or has something surfaced internationally on SAMBA?

There are no negative reports of SAMBA operational problems. No users are complaining that any of the SAMBA interfaces are lacking or broken: This includes the PUP only services (SSM) nor the File-managers that enclose SAMBA connections and operations.

The ONLY report I have recently seen is that of Torvalds working with (directly/indirectly) with Trugell/worldwide SAMBA developers to enclose more of smb protocol implementation in the Linux kernel.

Are you in disagreement with Torvalds and feel we should open a thread, here, to make this a topic area?

If "SMB Sharing" has become some sort of target needing a specific forum area because of something new, upcoming or unforeseen, it would be nice to share that for examination, IMHO.

Or just maybe, its something else that has caused this thread's opening.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”

— Marcus Aurelius

Here's a question from someone who never uses samba (I tried it once) and keeps networking to a minimum as much as possible.

How difficult is it in most pups to install Samba from a package manager and use it?

And is the specific pup setup utility the necessary component, the front end that makes it viable to a typical user?

I know that CUPS for instance can be difficult to get working, it's not always a matter of installing and running. So when I mention to a developer like @rockedge that my attempts at installing and running CUPS aren't successful, I appreciate when he includes it in the iso.

However, I would also be content with a general response that directed me to a procedure whereby I could accomplish the installation and setup myself. In fact in the long run this approach would be far more valuable to me, because I wouldn't be at the mercy of someone else's time and energy.

Wow, there's a party in full swing While I was reading all this, I even forgot about the poured cup of tea and it cooled down

Two points. At first I had the feeling that I was in the 86th year at the Komsomol meeting. The topic of the meeting is the announcement of a reprimand to Comrade XXX for accidentally overfulfilling the factory's plan to produce products in a drunken state

Second. Forecast Questions about Samba have already begun from some comrades...yikes gentlemen. Very soon, the number of mentions of Samba in the topic will be such that the name of the topic will correspond to reality. That is really - the average topic is always about Samba.
Even I alone mentioned Samba 3 times. Oh, it's already 4

What can I say about the topic? Something specific? Nothing

@geo_c , I am in the same situation as you. I never used SAMBA because when I work wirh Linux I only use puppy, and when for my work I must use Windows I only use it.

But I want to tell this because some people could be worried about this, because they can't understand anything and they could be worried about the importante of SAMBA.

-----------------
SAMBA is an open-source software suite that enables file and print services between Linux/Unix servers and Windows clients on a network. It allows Linux users to share files and printers with Windows clients, and vice versa, a problem, most users of Linux will never have.

It is obvios that the necessity of SAMBA for a Linux user depends on their specific requirements for file and printer sharing on a network. If you need to share files or printers with Windows clients, then SAMBA is necessary. Without SAMBA, it would be difficult or impossible for Windows clients to access files or printers shared on the Linux server, so if you don't use Windows you dont need SAMBA at all (marvellous, all this discussion never will be a problem for you,

My SUMMARY: SAMBA is a useful tool for Linux users who need to share files and printers with Windows clients, so for me is... NOTHING .

N.b.- please, don't understand this as an agressive post, because it has been written to relax the atmosphere i this forum in which friendship must be A MUST

CHEERS

@Grey clap, clap, clap

Ideas about improvements to this forum are always welcomed!!!

Making personal comments about other members of the forum are not!

The contents of this post got deleted for that reason.
viewtopic.php?p=88463#p88463

If you cannot agree that we all have different ideas and should be listened to.

Well, we do!

The post about using SG2D for doing installs of Puppy ISO's on a USB and booting from this USB, is under How-To -> Install section.

I use SAMBA every day and on my LAN's there is not a single Windows machine running.

Just easy to start because it's built into Puppy Linux which also has the tools to serve and connect a SAMBA server. I do not feel SAMBA is Windows only and never have. So how do you move large amounts of data around your LAN? I use FTP and SAMBA mostly because I have experience using it and it works most of the time

I do not feel SAMBA is Windows only and never have. So how do you move large amounts of data around your LAN?

Well, actually Samba is more related to Windows. Linux has NFS. Another thing is that everyone is LAZY