Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hello all!

Recently I resurrected a 2009 vintage desktop box. (Inspiron 545) Bare. No storage devices (at first). Installed several puppies on a thumb-drive (using my work-horse) Linux-box.
Booted various Puppies (from thumb-drive) . Normal booting observed. Connected to the internet etc. After that I connected other storage devices via SATA cables.
I connected these sequentially, one only at first. Initially, when only one SATA device was connected I observed a normal booting time.
After connecting two SATA devices - the booting time ran out to 15 minutes.
(During this extended booting period I wandered out into the Great Sandy Desert and gathered flowers. Great calming effect ...)
Now - after connecting/disconnecting the various SATA devices - and with only the thumb-drive connected the booting time is still 15 minutes.

There is more to this story, and I suspect I have 'diddled' something in the software.
Is any-one interested in this? At the moment the system is sitting there - booting slowly and I can report what I have/what I did.

Tracking the reason for slow booting could be a weird time-wasting exercise that has no benefit to the Puppy community.
So - think carefully before you reply. I'm only interested in chasing this if there is some benefit to the community.
I'm not interested in this for my own benefit.

cobaka

Additional info: Installation method. On a brand-new 32 GiB thumb-drive using my work-horse desktop (running uPupBB64, probably). Maybe 32. Certainly one of the Busy Beaver pups.
Installation by: manual, using ROX to copy/paste iso files (as described by MikeSLR) on this forum. Boot-loader installed using the magic of Grub-4-DOS. Then thumb-drive -> Inspiron.
Booted all Puppies on thumb-drive. Normal operation observed. (I installed uPupBB32/64, FossaPup, Slack-pups, Xenial Pup)
Format on thumb-drive. x3 partitions, P1, P2, P3. All the OS files to a separate directory on P3. P2 - empty. P1 - the bootloader.
P1: format is FAT32 for 200MiB. P2, P3 are ext3. Formatted using GParted from the Puppy menu.
That's enough for the moment.
Except: I suspect the BIOS is confused. Thinking more about this - yes, because (now) booting uPupBB64 (not Fossa-pup) the booting process is still 15mins.
I'm seriously considering re-setting the BIOS (CMOS) parameters and starting from scratch.

@cobaka :-

Funny you should mention this, Les.

I've never had any issues with booting Bionicpup64. But try as I might, I have never been able to get UPupbb32 to boot at what I would call "normal" Puppy speed.

I've tried it on an HDD. On my primary Crucial MX500 SSD. Even on a flash drive. And in every case, It hangs for what seems like forever on "Loading kernel modules..."

I suspected the default kernel. So I tried with half-a-dozen other kernels. No dice. Nix. Nada. Every time, it hangs on "Loading kernel modules..."

I long since gave it up as a bad job, with the view that there must be something incompatible between this Puppy and my hardware (an HP Pavilion desktop rig).

(*shrug*)

Mike.

If you rally want to work on this.

Pick a specific Puppy version and only use it to troubleshoot.

Need all the specific specs of the computer.

CPU
RAM and what type
USB port type

Good idea to take the cover off and look inside the case.
Check all connections
Disconnect and re-plugin all connections.
Check for any corrosion on anything.
Burnt spots on motherboard.
Bulging or leaking capacitors.

Set the bios to it's default settings.

If you have not changed the CMOS battery.
Change it to a new battery.
Do you know what it looks like on the motherboard?
Should be a CR2032 coin cell battery.

Could be booting with no stored bios settings, because the CMOS battery is dead.

So the bios has to go find everything and figure out settings, to continue the boot process.

@bigpup @mikewalsh

A very short response to both of you (while I write a longer posting)

In short - I am collecting evidence about the internal workings of Puppy (in FossaPup).
I will produce screenshots where FossaPup gives one name to storage drives on the desktop but gives a different ident to those drives/directories when used in applications (eg PaleMoon).
Here is the first screenshot. I installed a number of Puppies onto sdb3 (an approx 8 GiB ext3 partition)

The discrepancy I refer to is shown in the text snapshot.
Next I produce more screenshots to document the idea that Puppy is confused about storage device names and paths.

Bigpup I answer your "Q" about config (etc) below.
Mike: I will discuss loading/booting uPupBB32/64 later. My experience with these has been invariably good, but I prefer '32'.

cobaka

PS. I spent a lot of time identifying and documenting this situation.

Other info:
(1) PC is Dell, Inspiron 545 with a BIOS date around 2009. CPU is Socket 775, Intel Quad Q8200 @ 2.33 GHz.
(2) RAM: 2GiB (has capacity up to 8G). DDR-2.
(3) USB is: SanDisk 3.2 gen 1. Driver = usb-storage. Mounted on f/panel of Linux Box.

Installation method: manual installation, where I 'mount' (ie click) an puppy.iso file, select all and drag and drop into a first-level folder on sdx3 (in this case).
Then - having installed uPupBB32/64 FossaPup, Slack Pups and a Xenial pup I politely asked Grub-4-DOS: "please, create the bootloader files in sdx1.

Partitioning on the thumb-drive: P1 -> FAT32, 200Megs (approx) with boot-flag set. P2 -> ext3 (about 22 GiB). P3 -> about 6GiB and has the Puppy OS files.
Briefly: When I got this box it would not boot. Replaced CMOS battery - type 2032 and closed the reset jumper with the power off.
There was/is another fault. The front/panel push button must be pressed with care. It has a tendancy to 'feel' closed before it is closed.
This gives the appearance of 'reluctance to boot'. However - when the button is pushed correctly the PC boots.
Once puppy boots - it runs the desktop for hours/days. Just sitting. Doing nothing.
I began to notice "things" when I connected 2 SATA drives.
That's all for the moment.

Hello everybody:

I'll answer this question from my experience, so it's possible I made an error, but consider it only an idea, ok?

I think it is not a software (puppy) problem but a HARDWARE one.

Puppy works well with 2 conected devices (as you can see in my photo I have 3 SATA disk (With differente caracteristics and speeds 10000rpm -velociraptor- to 7200 rpm) and I added USB Pen drives to my connections +10)

But I found problems related with some hardware problem when working:

-some times, an error in one of this SATAS (it has problems working) made puppy try to connect before boot (so it's time to buy a new one, jaja)
- some times I have a connected USB that doesn't work
- other times the BIOS had changed the boot order and starts from a USB with errors.
.... and other "problems.

So my suggestion.- With one DISK it boots, WHEN u connect the other, doesn't boot.- Try to boot with only this second one.- Let's see what happens because the error could be in any place of it.

As i told you, only a suggestion, try, test ant comment...... HAVE A NICE DAY, my friend.

EDITED________________________________________________________

As you can see in this photo.- one of my DVDs is unplugged.- The reason is a problem with it that when booting make it start and continue searching for a disk that doesn't exists, so the system never starts.

I must change it, but I'm not in a hurry.- I have another one, I can connect an external one to an USB if a need, I record my music into USB to play them at my car...... (I DON'T NEED THEM so I prefer spend my money in other things, HAHA).

For those interested I document the problem further.
A few moment ago I removed (and re-inserted) the thumb-drive.
Then - a normal boot. I have no idea what's going on here. I abandon the quest to discover the problem.

In the screenshot below:

The desk-top shows two 'drives' - sda1 & sdb1 .. sdb3.

This is how I formatted sda as a single partition - ext3.
I formatted sdb: as 3 partitions - so the idea that sda2 or sda3 'exisit' is impossible - according to the formatting.
But the dialog box does show sda2 (and sda3). I think (sometime in the past) I let the air out of the tyres in the priest's car. I can't remember doing that, but god remembers, and she's punishing me.
God is like a HDD. She doesn't forget. RAM forgets when the power is off. God is better than RAM.

If there is some interest - I will continue to watch this post - but generally: I'm over this.

cobaka.

@mikewalsh
You:

... try as I might, I have never been able to get UPupbb32 to boot at what I would call "normal" Puppy speed.

My experience with Puppy Linux is largely limited to uPupBB32 (and a little '64). Can't offer a single suggestion about why '32 should be slow - my experience is quite the opposite. I've installed it on thumbs, conventional HDDs, CDs and even SSDs. I want to tell others "uPupBB32 is great software. In my view, (and for what I do) the best Puppy kennel."

cobaka

@cobaka :-

cobaka wrote: ↑Tue May 02, 2023 8:43 am

@mikewalsh
You:

... try as I might, I have never been able to get UPupbb32 to boot at what I would call "normal" Puppy speed.

My experience with Puppy Linux is largely limited to uPupBB32 (and a little '64). Can't offer a single suggestion about why '32 should be slow - my experience is quite the opposite. I've installed it on thumbs, conventional HDDs, CDs and even SSDs. I want to tell others "uPupBB32 is great software. In my view, (and for what I do) the best Puppy kennel."

cobaka

I also have no idea why this should be the case, Les. UPupBB32 is the ONLY one that does this.....and I've ruled out a "bad" download, through downloading it several times (always the 'current' version).

Every time it's the same. It hangs on "loading kernel modules".....for anything up to 3-5 minutes at a time. I've certainly no problems with peebee's work, either, 'cos most of his stuff is excellent.

It's not an issue, as I have at least a dozen others in the "kennels". Plenty there to keep me amused!

Mike.

wizard's rule #11 "Sometimes weird things just happen"

wizard

When I got this box it would not boot. Replaced CMOS battery - type 2032 and closed the reset jumper with the power off.

That is part of what needs to be done when changing the CMOS battery.

You still need to get into the Bios setup where you can change settings.

Check to make sure all the hardware devices have settings correct for them.

One example:

Should SATA mode be AHCI or IDE?
Generally speaking, IDE mode provides better compatibility for the older hardware. But the hard drive may perform more slowly in IDE mode.
If you want to install more than one hard drive and use the advanced SATA features, AHCI mode is a better choice.

That not working so good power on/off switch could be some of the problem.

Again all connections on the motherboard should be disconnected and reconnected.
Make sure no corrosion on them, pins bent, etc....
Make sure when plugged in it seems a snug fit.

That image of Rox showing the /mnt

Mount one of the sdb partitions sdb1 or sdb2.

Then see what is shown in /mnt

sdb3 is already mounted as home in /mnt

Rox kind of has a history feature for items listed under /mnt (but it is a little iffy what it retains)

If at some time you mounted sda1.

It will still be listed under /mnt, but it will show nothing when clicked on until it is actually mounted.

If you booted with only the USB of Fossapup64 and the internal drive was not seen.
Puppy will usually call the partitions on the USB sda

Normally internal drives are sda

Hello @bigpup & a good "woof" for you!

The topic: How to explain the discrepancy about mounting (as seen in the snapshots post previously).

The details about how I got the images (showing ambiguous ident. of drives etc) are uncertain now.
I moved various items (both physically and logically if you know what I mean).
After that 2 thumb drives arrived in the mail. I set about partitioning/installing to them and that further muddied the water.
I didn't log everything I did.

Many years ago I learned that every detail is important when tracking down a fault/bug.
An associate's (Windows) box fell over. His nephew was was a very clever 'wiz'.
I send over a HDD and written instructions on how to install a working copy of Windows.
Nephew was very fast! Zip, zip, zip! So fast I couldn't follow what he did.
Installation was finished in a moment - but it didn't work.
He said: The disk is faulty!

I became 'the enforcer'. You must follow the written instruction!
Do it carefully! At the end - Windows booted 'just fine'. Detail is important.
The moral: I don't have the detail I need to answer your "Q" reliably.
That's one reason I abandoned this problem.

Again: I have a 2009 PC on the work-bench nearby. I mentioned this before: the fp switch was unreliable.
When I pushed the switch 'in' it felt "in" but wasn't 'on'. This is the usual power reset switch. (Not mains power ...)
At times it would be "on". This gave the appearance of unreliable booting.
Press the button: PC boots. Press the button - no boot! RAM? PSU with marginal starting? Poor connection (somewhere? ...).

BUT Inspection showed the front panel cover was incorrectly positioned. It wasn't the switch - it was the fp cover! After re-positioning that (and cleaning out dust bunnies) the switch mated positively. Miracle of miracles! Now the previously intermittent problem in memory/PSU/connection with gone! (Conclusion: When your RAM is faulty, re-position the front panel.)

My point? Again: I don't have the necessary detail (to report accurately). I can't answer your "Q". Sorry!

But all isn't lost. I think there is 'nasty stuff' in the two thumb-drives I bought recently. Yay!

cobaka

cobaka.