F96-CE_4 Latest Stable Release

[Sylvander]

@mikewalsh
"I'm only in my early 60s, yet I know it takes me longer to get stuff organised, get my head round it and "deal with it" than it used to, say, 20 years ago. I can only imagine how things will be for ME in another 15 years time.....and I have a heart attack behind me"
1. My brother died last week at the age of 93.
At least I'm still alive.
I've had 3 heart attacks none fatal, 90% closed blood vessel in my heart found during testing, fixed by installing [at no cost at the time of need] a "Stent"=super-duper NHS. My wife too.
My other heart blood vessels were reported as "pristine" by the surgeon who fitted the stent.
Heart now performing well [wife too], but have hypertension.
Also type-2 Diabetes, doing a pee every 1/2-hour every night, so very disturbed sleep, take naps during the day, post between those if I feel able, possibly during the night.
Have your heart tested, you too may need a stent, it might save your life.

[bigpup]

If you are running Puppy from a USB-Stick it automatically is configured to run under PupMode13. You don't have to do anything. Your "if" question is academic

Depends on the installer program used.

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I tried booting from a USB install of F96-CE_4 using F2stickpup to do the install.
Did a shutdown making a save.
Now booted using the save.

Need to be booting using a save before doing the following edit.

For some reason the boot loader file grub.cfg it makes has pmedia=usbhd in the menu entry.
It does boot into pupmode 12.

To get it to boot into pupmode 13 and provide options for how the save works.

Boot with it and be running F96-CE so you can use programs in it.

Look on the first partition on the USB for the file grub.cfg

The desktop should have drive icons on it for the partitions on the USB.
Depends on number of drives on the computer what is there.

I will assume ther is only one internal drive and one USB drive.

If only one Internal drive it is usually sda.

The USB drive partitions icons are sdb1, sdb2.

Click on sdb1 and rox opens showing what is on it.

Left click on file grub.cfg.

It opens in a text editor program.

Find pmedia=usbhd in the entry and change it to pmedia=usbflash

Save the change and close editor program.

Reboot.

Now it should boot in pupmode 13 with a save icon on the desktop.

Event Manager->Save session window should now have active all the save options to select how save works.

Note:
WE just discovered a bug in Stickpup installer.
It most likely does this in both versions of Stickpup,
Well, maybe not a bug, but something to make sure a new Puppy user does not need to control settings for the save.
Making it boot into pupmode 12 does make the save always getting updated as stuff changes.
OK, a new user feature

[bigpup]

Just reporting this, but this is on a very, very, new computer, with very, very new hardware.

Booting the F96-CE_4 USB made with F2stickpup.

For some reason the only desktop drive icons are only the partitions on the USB.

This computer has 3 internal drives and two USB drives.

Tried Event Manager ->Rox icons settings to get them showing, but had no affect.

I am having to use nomodeset=0 boot option to get a working desktop to display.
It is an issue with the Nvidia hardware.
It boots using the vesa driver.

Booting from a frugal install of F96-CE_4 on other drives, that use the boot loader installed by Frugalpup installer program.
It shows all the different drives with icons for all.
These are using Nvidia driver for the Nvidia hardware.

[Sylvander]

@bigpup
1. SUCCESS!
Except...
How do I make NOSAVE the default?
I know it's a setting in the Event manager, but which?

[amethyst]

@bigpup
1. SUCCESS!
Except...
How do I make NOSAVE the default?
I know it's a setting in the Event manager, but which?

viewtopic.php?p=115999#p115999

[Sylvander]

@amethyst
In the post to which you linked:
"System > Event Manager > Save session tab > Save interval 0 > also tick the Ask at shutdown box > OK."
1. This has been DONE.

"When you reboot or shutdown, a box will appear where you can select whether to save or not."
2. This is what happens.

"The default is no saving if you do not select anything."
3. I HAVE selected nothing. i.e. "Ask at shutdown..." is ticked, AND "Save interval"=0 [The instructions (in the Event Manager dialogue) say the session will be SAVED automatically when "Save interval" is GREATER THAN ZERO, which it is NOT].
Hence these setting aught to produce NOSAVE, but don't.

[amethyst]

@amethyst
In the post to which you linked:
"System > Event Manager > Save session tab > Save interval 0 > also tick the Ask at shutdown box > OK."
1. This has been DONE.

"When you reboot or shutdown, a box will appear where you can select whether to save or not."
2. This is what happens.

"The default is no saving if you do not select anything."
3. I HAVE selected nothing. i.e. "Ask at shutdown..." is ticked, AND "Save interval"=0 [The instructions (in the Event Manager dialogue) say the session will be SAVED automatically when "Save interval" is GREATER THAN ZERO, which it is NOT].
Hence these setting aught to produce NOSAVE, but don't.

Strange, does for me...Ignore the greater than zero or whatever is said there (your value is 0 not greater than 0 so it's not applicable to your scenario). Just make sure the interval is 0 and that you tick the box. If it's zero and the box is ticked (very important that the block is ticked too), there will be no auto savings during a session but you will get a choice to select whether to save or not at reboot/shutdown. The default in this scenario ie. 0 interval and block ticked, is no save although I think the save block is highligted for some reason (ignore that as well) or just select no save or let the timeout run out for default (no saving). I normally select the no save there instead of waiting for the 8 seconds for the default action (also of no save) to be carried out. If you don't do anything OR select no save, you will eventually get a message confirming that the session has not been saved.

[Sylvander]

@amethyst
"The default is no save although I think the save block is highlighted for some reason (ignore that as well) or just select no save or let the timeout run out for default (no saving)."
Whoa, I'm VERY reluctant to accept/allow the highlighted "Save" and just HOPE that it doesn't actually save.
I would need to highlight "Don't save" and hit "Enter", which is a nuisance.
In my ANCIENT Slacko, "Don't save" is highlighted by default and I [normally] just hit "Enter". A single keystroke rather than two. I might make a disastrous mistake by just hitting "Enter" in FossaPup like I normally do in Slacko.
Surely a modern Puppy isn't going to be unable to do what an ancient Puppy can?
I'm accustomed to better things from Slacko.

[amethyst]

@amethyst
"The default is no save although I think the save block is highlighted for some reason (ignore that as well) or just select no save or let the timeout run out for default (no saving)."
Whoa, I'm VERY reluctant to accept/allow the highlighted "Save" and just HOPE that it doesn't actually save.
I would need to highlight "Don't save" and hit "Enter", which is a nuisance.
In my ANCIENT Slacko, "Don't save" is highlighted and I [normally] just hit "Enter". A single keystroke rather than two. I might make a disastrous mistake by just hitting "Enter" in FossaPup like I normally do in Slacko.
Surely a modern Puppy isn't going to be unable to do what an ancient Puppy can?
I'm accustomed to better things from Slacko.

Well, you have to take that concern up with the developers. All I can confirm is how it works (I also use the same scenario as you with Fossa). You don't have to hope, the default is not to save....and you will get a message to that effect anyway. I may have a look at that script and see if one could make that highlight for the no save box instead (not that if would make a difference to what's happening anyway)..

[rockedge]

I'm accustomed to better things from Slacko.

Huh...............well I could always change the default to no save and repackage the entire F96-CE_4. As a matter of fact, there are other small improvements to be added so maybe time for an upgrade in kernel version, change the save to no save as default and add in those other modifications and call it F96-CE_5.

Might as well change the background/wallpaper choices as well...take out all of the old Puppy backgrounds unless it's .svg and put in new ones.

Anything else before I start? Going with the huge kernel 6.8.4 from @ozsouth most likely.

[amethyst]

I think it's quite clear what you need to do there if you read the full message.

[rockedge]

I think it's quite clear what you need to do there if you read the full message.

Why not spell it out for me.

[Sylvander]

@rockedge
"Anything else before I start?"
1. I MUST have:
Else would be forced to keep using my ancient Slacko.
a) Thunderbird email client [VITAL], and a way to link to the emails stored/used by the Thunderbird installation on my Slacko Puppy.
I think I stored them off the save file, perhaps on the Windows partition. Need to know how to find their location.
b) WINE: VITAL for running my Family Tree program, and also my "Password Vault" program to access the vault file held on a Flash Drive.
I'll reboot to Slacko and see if I can spot anything there [which I REALLY NEED] that I think isn't in FossaPup.

[amethyst]

I think it's quite clear what you need to do there if you read the full message.

Why not spell it out for me.

I'm talking about the text message that is displayed by the operating system (as specified in the /etc/rc.shutdown script). It's easy to understand as is if you read it. So in my view there should not be any confusion.

[Sylvander]

@rockedge
Continuation of previous post.
Now posting from Slacko-5.7.0.
1. Wow Pale Moon is slow here.
2. Noticed in "Puppy Event Manager" is says "Restart X for changes to take effect". Might be relevant to the SAVE/NOSAVE?
3. In Slacko I had Firefox, Palemoon, Slimjet. When any one wasn't working well with a website, I'd try the 2nd and then the 3rd to see which one(s) would work ok. Worth considering?
4. There were times when I needed to use "Teamviewer remote desktop". Is that included on FossaPup?
5. Would be helpful to be able to jump from one Puppy to another, possible?
6. VITAL: I use "Save My Modem"=https://sourceforge.net/projects/savemymodem/ [smm in a console] to examine emails whilst still on the internet server, delete any rubbish emails and only then fetch the remainder using Thunderbird.

[rockedge]

I'm talking about the text message that is displayed by the operating system (as specified in the /etc/rc.shutdown script). It's easy to understand as is if you read it. So in my view there should not be any confusion.

Ahhh yes.....I agree.

In KLV the default is no save. Should we change that in F96-CE_4 as well?

[Sylvander]

@rockedge
"In KLV the default is no save. Should we change that in F96-CE_4 as well?
I don't know what KLV is, but YES.
In 99.9% of sessions I use NOSAVE.

[bigpup]

This has been an issue for years.

I say make default not save, if you have it set to ask at shutdown. to save or not save.

What default for save should be set to, is usually how you want to help new users of Puppy.

They may not fully understand this save thing.

So default set to save, can keep them from loosing software they may have installed, but did not update the save, before shutting down.

But it does require you to select no save (to not save) when it shuts down.

[keniv]

@rockedge

In KLV the default is no save. Should we change that in F96-CE_4 as well?

I don't use KLV but I do use both F96-CE_4 and Bookworm 10.0.6. I would prefer to leave the default in these as is. I probably save about 50% of the time. It is simple to select which you want to do. I think making the effort, whether it's large or small, to change the default is pointless.

Regards,

Ken.

[wizard]

@rockedge

To save or not to save? How about just making it a check box, then everyone is happy.

wizard

[Chelsea80]

@rockedge

I'm with @keniv on this one.

Yes you could change it because you can.

Then all those that have been using F96-CE_4 'as is' have to remember that it is not 'as is' any more.

Let sleeping dogs sleep I say.

Look forward to F96-CE_5

Chelsea80

[amethyst]

I'm talking about the text message that is displayed by the operating system (as specified in the /etc/rc.shutdown script). It's easy to understand as is if you read it. So in my view there should not be any confusion.

Ahhh yes.....I agree.

In KLV the default is no save. Should we change that in F96-CE_4 as well?

The default when the time interval is 0 and the box is ticked, is in fact no saving. A possible confusion (for some who don't bother to read the text message) may be that the save button is highlighted at reboot/shutdown BUT the text message on the screen is very clear how it works so there shouldn't be any confusion. Leave it as is, the text message is clear and easy enough to understand.

[Sylvander]

@amethyst
"the text message on the screen is very clear how it works so there shouldn't be any confusion."
1. Can you read that text in less than 8 seconds! I mean actually READ IT!
I cannot, so it times out. OK, now I know [from actually doing it] that it DOESN'T SAVE.
But that's a lose-lose situation:
a) If I had wanted to save [and spent the 8 seconds or more 1st time reading the text], then it WOULD NOT SAVE and I'd have lost my changes.
b) If If I didn't want to save, it has COST me 8 seconds to do that. Or else I must use 2 key strokes rather than 1.
c) My ancient Slacko works better than that: I only need to hit enter! No waiting, no reading text, just see NOSAVE highlighted and hit ENTER.
d) It would be nice to have a "Change default" button on the window.

[amethyst]

@amethyst
"the text message on the screen is very clear how it works so there shouldn't be any confusion."
1. Can you read that text in less than 8 seconds! I mean actually READ IT!
I cannot, so it times out. OK, now I know [from actually doing it] that it DOESN'T SAVE.
But that's a lose-lose situation:
a) If I had wanted to save [and spent the 8 seconds or more 1st time reading the text], then it WOULD NOT SAVE and I'd have lost my changes.
b) If If I didn't want to save, it has COST me 8 seconds to do that. Or else I must use 2 key strokes rather than 1.
c) My ancient Slacko works better than that: I only need to hit enter! No waiting, no reading text, just see NOSAVE highlighted and hit ENTER.
d) It would be nice to have a "Change default" button on the window.

Yes, personally I can read it twice. The developers shortened that time for this specific distribution to 8 seconds. I take your point that some may not have the capacity to read the text message fast enough. The time can be adjusted, maybe make it 30 seconds (i think in older distributions it was 1 minute). Depends what you mean by "better", some may be more intent on saving compared to others who save seldomly. Since the default is no save and you only have to wait 8 seconds (if you don't do anything), I don't really see your problem since you don't intend to save anyway. And if you do want to save, you can press enter immediately. Seems pretty simple to me and in your case it's actually beneficial the way it is set up currently with this distribution. I don't save at that stage and I find myself sometimes clicking tab and enter for no saving immediately or just let it run for 8 seconds (don't really have preference either way). When I do save, I do it during the session.

[Chelsea80]

@Sylvander

it has COST me 8 seconds to do that. Or else I must use 2 key strokes rather than 1

WOW!!

Chelsea80

[wizard]

@Chelsea80

@Sylvander

it has COST me 8 seconds to do that. Or else I must use 2 key strokes rather than 1

WOW!!

You might want to back track a few post and read that Sylander suffers from "essential tremor". This means that extra keystrokes and/or mouse maneuvers increase the chances of errors and are more of a struggle.

Thanks
wizard

[Chelsea80]

@Sylvander

My apologies for my WOW!! post.

@wizard has brought to my attention, for which I thank him, referencing your post regarding your medical situation.

I assure you that my post was intended as a tongue-in-cheek comment and no malice was intended.

Chelsea80

[Sylvander]

@Chelsea80
OK.

[mikeslr]

@rockedge, about upgrading to F96-CE_5. "Anything else before I start?"

Include rerwin's latest networking components and radky's Grub2config-2.0.2.

Thinking about doing a remaster, I've accumulated updated applications by jasper, sonny and ozsouth I thought generally worth using. Some are in one folder I can easily tar,gz and upload.

fossa64-updates.png (54.62 KiB) Viewed 496 times

Others I've moved to my fossapup storage folder or 'Puppy agnostic' folder. I can check that for dates downloaded.

Let me know if you want them.

I don't see a problem making the default for hard-drives Pupmode 13. The default would be "No Save" with focus on the Save button. Do nothing and in 60 seconds it shuts down without Saving. One click to Save. The time interval can be changed. Under Pupmode 12 there's no choice. It Saves automatically whether or not your want to.

[rockedge]

@mikeslr YES!! I definitely would like to have a copy of that folder!

I've been thinking that with the many packages compiled by @Jasper, @sonny and @ozsouth there are significant ones that should be a foundation for the F96_CE_5.

A newer non-usermerge kernel and

I don't see a problem making the default for hard-drives Pupmode 13. The default would be "No Save" with focus on the Save button. Do nothing and in 60 seconds it shuts down without Saving. One click to Save. The time interval can be changed. Under Pupmode 12 there's no choice. It Saves automatically whether or not your want to.

I tend to like Pupmode 12 as default but we can test this arrangement for sure.

It would be nice to have a "Change default" button on the window.

This might be the best solution for the which default question.