Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

What's the easiest/best way to set up a UEFI laptop to keep Windows 10 and be able to edit the *.cfg or menu.1st and manually set up multiple Dogs and Puppies like we do with grub4dos?

Ideally, I'd like to just boot it to a DD usb drive, shrink the windows partition, make a linux partition, and install it, but that seems a little optimistic.

Is @rcrsn51 grub2 way in the starter kit the standard way or is there something else?

@rcsn51's install instructions for reference viewtopic.php?p=3615#p3615

edit again: fatdog instructions https://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/f ... drive.html

edit: DISABLE FAST BOOT IN WINDOWS 1ST CHANCE YOU GET.

dancytron wrote: ↑Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:12 pm

What's the easiest/best way to set up a UEFI laptop to keep Windows 10 and be able to edit the *.cfg or menu.1st and manually set up multiple Dogs and Puppies like we do with grub4dos?

Ideally, I'd like to just boot it to a DD usb drive, shrink the windows partition, make a linux partition, and install it, but that seems a little optimistic.

Is @rcrsn51 grub2 way in the starter kit the standard way or is there something else?

@rcsn51's install instructions for reference viewtopic.php?p=3615#p3615

edit again: fatdog instructions https://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/f ... drive.html

Yes, grub2 probably the best way to go, but use a less fussy grub2 than what say official Ubuntu security conscious grub2 would give you (unless you turning secure boot off and then even that one that expects Ubuntu signed kernels under secure boot will be fine). One way might be to install wee antiX just as a way to get a grub2 dual boot with Windows I think. However, don't trust me on that - I am using Ubuntu grub2 and secure boot off - I just looked at antiX as alternative way to do it later. Once you have grub2 dual booting (however you do it) you can of course remove antiX or whatever and boot what you like via grub.cfg additions. I'm actually running Zorin lite often (which is effectively official Ubuntu - modified) so has that security conscious grub2, but with secure boot off that's fine for me, but means I use Zorin update-grub method to add new distros via /etc/grub.d
Keeping Windows available is always the tricky part without accidentally erasing it! You certainly should boot into Windows and use Windows disk management to shrink Windows partition - don't use the likes of gparted for that since breaks ntfs from Window's point of view. Windows disk management tools shrink ntfs partition fine and reliably.

I think your right about using Windows to shrink the partitions. IIRC, that's what I did on my XP/Puppy Precise/DD Stretch Desktop way back when.

The fatdog way sets up a separate EFI Fat32 partition for linux and you switch between them in bios.

The @rcrsn51 way looks like it has you replace the files in the existing EFI windows partition with new and chainload windows from the grub.cfg file.

As long as it works and I can add new installs by editing a text file, I'm happy.

edit: Getting a hard drive enclosure for the 7+9 pin micro sata hard drive I pulled out the laptop to get my data has proved to be a little more challenging than I thought. I found one, ordered it on ebay and then it got cancelled, so I ordered another one just now from [evil mail order company].

Apparently, it was a tech that got replaced by SSD's pretty quickly so they aren't that common. There are a 40 pin 1.8" drives and at least one other version out there, so 1.8" hard drive enclosure won't necessarily get you the right one.

With Zorin lite, it was easy. After using Windows to shrink partition for space for Zorin, I just used Zorin live install (on usb stick) and then followed their installation and chose 'Other' to allow me to partition the bit released after shrinking and used that for mount point "/" and let the grub2 get put into the partition Windows already used for EFI. Zorin thereafter was available in the grub2 boot menu as was Windows (auto-magically found...).

However, that did install that Ubuntu grub2 (well - Zorin variant of it) and it is thereafter tricky to use if wanting secure boot (because needing signed kernels and more). I didn't try it, but a simply antiX install seemed to offer similar procedure and I'm guessing (but didn't try) didn't involve such a fussy grub2. Maybe it does. I don't know sorry. I'm still trying to find safest way to do all this myself too, but don't want to risk my machine with alternative attempts (hence why I didn't actually try installing antiX to its nvme hard drive - just not taking the risk!). Puppy has that LICK methodology, but I was also scared to try that...

I will say that Zorin lite install did do the job, except I needed to thereafter turn off secure boot, which is maybe fine for your situation too? Or take the risk and try antiX or LICK maybe? I wouldn't try frugalpup method since I doubt that looks after the Windows dual boot need.

People wisely say you should first back up your WIndows installation, but that's another problem in itself if you are not familiar with backing up Windows... I no longer am (though I did make a backup - but have no idea if I could recover from it anyway).

EDIT: By the way, I did the operation on a brand new laptop that needed Windows to keep working for business use... I can assure you I was sweating quite a bit as I worked on the matter in case I wrecked the Windows install. Oh, and the nvme Windows install was encrypted using Bitlocker so I had to undo all that first before I shrunk the partition and so on... Hopefully on your refurbished machine you don't have that additional issue (and needed to turn Fastboot off in the BIOS). It was nerve-wracking.

EDIT2: Yes I know about these 1.8" drives and their unusual interface. I've dealt with similar matter also in the past via a cheap SSD replacement I once installed from Aliexpress. It took me ages convincing myself what I ordered was the correct interface (converter) - luckily it was (though I blew up the cheap SSD later anyway... such is dev work sometimes...).

If I mess up the Windows install and have to just reformat and install DD/Puppy, it won't be the end of the world, but I want to at least try to keep it.

dancytron wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 11:40 am

If I mess up the Windows install and have to just reformat and install DD/Puppy, it won't be the end of the world, but I want to at least try to keep it.

It is now a year since we bought this laptop, and I still have never used Windows on it! However, I still hesitate to free it from the nvme disk space - as soon as I do that I fear I will suddenly need it for something or other...

Should I reach the stage of no longer caring about it I will risk the likes of LICK or antiX install - just to see how if it succeeds without destruction.

I'm leaning toward using Bill's tools/EFI files but setting it up like the Fatdog instructions with 2 EFI partitions...

Dan, one thing to consider is to do a good backup of the W10 install. Then try your dual boot method of choice knowing you can recover if it goes bad. I have used Aomei Backup free version for several years for this purpose.

Edit: Here's the link to Aomei PE builder (you need Windows to run the .exe file), lets you make a bootable USB to backup/restore. https://www.ubackup.com/pe-builder.html Hirens Boot CD PE (comes as an ISO, 64bit only)can also make a bootable USB and it includes Aomei. https://www.hirensbootcd.org/

wizard

Dan, take a look at my edit above for links to Aomei.

wizard

Thanks.

I'm going to get the Hiren's CD and set it up. That's nice to have around anyway.

@dancytron

Good choice, has a lot of other useful programs too. On my systems it's a really slow boot. I made my Aomei with a W7 32bit so it boots a lot faster. I have dedicated USB's as well as a Ventoy with both of them.

wizard

Can't advice about dual boot with Windows, but can say that the "Fatdog way" works well for me, just extract on a very small small FAT32 partition (not sure, I think must be 1st partition): http://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/fatd ... -puppy.zip
And just add a proper grub.cfg on that same partition, that's it.

I got it to work.

Basically, I followed Bill's instructions except pointed it at the new Fat32 small partition instead of the original Windows one.

Like the Fatdog instructions say, you need to kind of trick it to select the new EFI file. In the case of HP Consumer laptops, enable legacy, reboot to boot menu, choose correct file manually and it will remember it from then on, if that makes sense.

It didn't want to "provision the platform key", so it is set to secure boot off and legacy boot off and boots via /mnt/sda5/EFI/grub/grub.cfg and chainloads Window from sda1 as per Bill's instructions.

Not sure it was worth the trouble, but it works.

With 6 gig of ram, Windows 10 is barely usable.

edit: I went ahead and "provisioned the platform key" using the key file that Bill provided. Now it works set in secure mode.

edit again: make sure to disable fastboot the 1st thing the first time you are in Windows. If not, it will fail and try to repair itself by recreating the original Windows setup, which will fail because you have the wrong key enabled. So, you have reenable legacy, boot to usb, delete the new sda1 EFI folder and reenable secure boot to sda5.

Bill's @rcrsn51 installer just works no matter what you do.

My old laptop was sda1 - 75 gig ext4 linux drive, sda2 6 gig swap, and sda3 ntfs data drive for the rest. It is now an external usb drive. sda1 and sda3 are mirroring my new laptop using rsync.

I deleted sda2, put a fat32 partition there instead, copied bill's EFI stuff and generated a grub.cfg file with a DD ISO, manually wrote a grub entry for the rsync'd from my laptop hard drive DD, copied some stuff around so the rsync backup script wouldn't delete stuff, rebooted with secure boot on and it just worked.

set timeout=30


menuentry "First synced to hp laptop on old usb save on exit" {
  echo "Booting from old usb hard drive..."
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810
  linux /First/live/vmlinuz1 edd=off noauto from=UUID:28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810/First changes=EXIT:UUID:28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810/First
  initrd /First/live/initrd1.xz
}

menuentry "First sync'd to hp laptop on old usb clean" {
  echo "Booting clean from old usb hard drive ..."
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810
  linux /First/live/vmlinuz1 edd=off noauto copy2ram from=UUID:28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810/First
  initrd /First/live/initrd1.xz
}

menuentry "10-5-22-.Clean.xz.ChromelessBullseyePulseDog-custom on old usb" {
  echo "Booting ..."
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810
  linux /PulseBullseyeDog/live/vmlinuz1 edd=off noauto from=UUID:28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810/PulseBullseyeDog changes=EXIT:UUID:28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810/PulseBullseyeDog
  initrd /PulseBullseyeDog/live/initrd1.xz
}

menuentry "10-5-22-.Clean.xz.ChromelessBullseyePulseDog-custom on old usb CleanMode" {
  echo "Booting ..."
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810
  linux /PulseBullseyeDog/live/vmlinuz1 edd=off noauto copy2ram from=UUID:28692158-8947-490d-aef2-eb5ec1547810/PulseBullseyeDog
  initrd /PulseBullseyeDog/live/initrd1.xz
}

menuentry "Reboot" {
  reboot
}

menuentry "Power off" {
  halt
}

(talking for both EFI and bios)

LICK (run the comnand line version -not the GUI) would be my first option. Worst case scenario is that you will not see the LICK entry.
Make sure that fast boot is disabled. Disabling Secure boot is not always necessary.
Be certain that your windows disk is not bitlocker encrypted.

Grub2win has some options that are dangerous.In one case it worked while other options didn't work (an laptop-like old i2 pc).

Easybcd (neogrub option) was until last year my failback option but in a series of i7 laptop it was useless. It didn't allow any non-windows option.

Each year I setup linux in 2+ computer labs (50+ PCs) and each year I face a new problem. So far -as I mentioned above the safest option seems to be lick : It either shows a boot entry or not - it have never made any system unbootable (unless you mess lickgrub.cfg/lickmenu.lst which is easy solvable.

My goal is always to do a frugal install so the PC can be easily restored to initial state.

It sounds like a great solution for lab computers other people are going to use.

I'm pretty happy with what I did as a laptop to install and uninstall lots of different Dog and Puppy distros with Windows still there, but newbies would find it awkward and not error proof.