Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

DebianDog Sid

Update 2024-10-04: New mklive-sid attached below, added LXQT to the DE options, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=132346#p132346

Update 2024-07-20: New mklive-sid attached below, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=126447#p126447
Update 2024-06-17: New mklive-sid attached below, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=123253#p123253
edit: fixed online configs (solves error when systemd build chosen) viewtopic.php?p=123843#p123843
Update 2024-01-31: New mklive-sid attached below, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=110674#p110674
Update 2023-10-07: New mklive-sid attached, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=100404#p100404
Update 2023-08-14: New mklive-sid attached, see info here: viewtopic.php?p=96388#p96388
Update 2023-08-12: New mklive-sid attached, small fix, see here: viewtopic.php?p=96131#p96131
Update 2023-02-19: New mklive-sid attached, changes see here: viewtopic.php?p=84299#p84299
Update 2023-02-19: New mklive-sid attached, fixed a mistake (was only (possibly) affecting when boot with systemd chosen at build configuration), and prevents now showing the annoying question about overwriting /etc/rc.local
Update 2022-11-06: ISO updated, download and info: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid
Update 2022-11-04: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info: viewtopic.php?p=71478#p71478
Update 2022-10-11: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2022-10-04: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2021-10-13: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2021-07-29: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here
Update 2021-05-23: new mklive-sid attached, see changes info Here (goes for Sid too)
Update 2021-05-06: New! Sid Build script:

EDIT 2022-10-04: for now, not maintaining appimages anymore:
Info and download Appimages here: https://debiandog.github.io/MakeLive/Re ... d-sid.html

Updated 2020-11-25, Changes and fixes: viewtopic.php?p=5509#p5509
Sid (also named "unstable", it may sound a bit scary, a better name IMO would be "less stable than 'stable'") is a so called rolling release, which means in practice that it includes the latest software versions and is constantly updated (standard Debian repos, see below for about static "no updates").
This is for who prefers the latest software and is not afraid of fixing small problems (there might be sometimes, after a "apt upgrade")

In fact, because of the (almost) daily updates it's not very suitable for a live system.
Therefore DebianDog Sid has the option to choose between:

• Static repository, default (from snapshot.debian.org). Using this repository there are no updates available, because it's fixed at a date
  This is recommended to keep the save storage as small as possible

• Dynamic, standard Debian Sid repository
  Using this repository there are daily updates available
  Installing packages usually takes more space than when using 'Static'"

2022-11-06: ISO updated
See more info, download here: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid/blob/m ... o-20201125 and at Post #3, info about repository options

Screenshots:

Openbox with tint2 panels:

Openbox with PcmanFM and lxpanel:

Fred

Changes and fixes done for DebianDog-Sid-full-20201124-overlay ISO:
- Porteus-boot method now using overlay instead of aufs Overlay replacing aufs
- Kernel 5.9.0-3
- Earlier version had a ugly workaround for pcmanfm:
to show the drive icons in pcmanfm (by use of "pup-volume-monitor"), a workaround is made, script /usr/local/bin/pcmanfm points to /usr/bin/pcmanfm and (required) gio libs in /usr/local/gio
- Fixed now by modifying pup-volume-monitor package, no "ugly" workaround anymore.
- All packages upgraded (apt upgrade)
- Some other small changes, e.g. gtk-youtube-viewer is gtk3 based now
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changes and fixes done for DebianDog-Sid-full-20201125-overlay ISO:
- Fixed the "Always Fresh" entry (that previously failed to boot).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2022-07-24: Two major problems fixed, see viewtopic.php?p=62665#p62665

2022-11-06: ISO updated, download and info: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid

I've got overlay(fs) working well now with the porteus-boot method using kernel 5.9.0-2-amd64, development of aufs is uncertain nowadays, so overlay is the future,and probably I will focus on that for next 'Dog' development.
Even got the EXIT: option working (save only at demand/shutdown) and using a very much modified snapmergepuppy (script that takes care of copying the changes).
Only limitation I can think of now is that "Load SFS on the fly" is not possible with overlay the way we could do with aufs, pity...
Loading .squashfs modules at boot by placing in the 'live' directory works fine though.
Output (partly) of "findmnt":

TARGET                                               SOURCE                        FSTYPE     OPTIONS
/                                                    rootOV                        overlay    rw,relatime,lowerdir=/memory/images/k-5.9.0-2-amd64.squashfs:/memory/images/01-filesystem.squashfs,upperdir=/memory/changes/upperdir,workdir=/memory/changes/workdir
├─/mnt/live                                          tmpfs                         tmpfs      rw,relatime,mode=755
│ ├─/mnt/live/proc                                   proc                          proc       rw,relatime
│ ├─/mnt/live/sys                                    sysfs                         sysfs      rw,relatime
│ ├─/mnt/live/dev                                    none                          devtmpfs   rw,relatime,size=1003696k,nr_inodes=250924,mode=755
│ ├─/mnt/live/mnt/sda7                               /dev/sda7                     ext4       rw,noatime,nodiratime
│ ├─/mnt/live/memory/changes                         /dev/sda7[/beye/live/changes] ext4       rw,noatime,nodiratime
│ ├─/mnt/live/memory/images/01-filesystem.squashfs   /dev/loop0                    squashfs   ro,relatime
│ └─/mnt/live/memory/images/k-5.9.0-2-amd64.squashfs /dev/loop1                    squashfs   ro,relatime

Fred

fredx181 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:42 pm

I've got overlay(fs) working well now with the porteus-boot method using kernel 5.9.0-2-amd64, development of aufs is uncertain nowadays, so overlay is the future,and probably I will focus on that for next 'Dog' development.
...
Only limitation I can think of now is that "Load SFS on the fly" is not possible with overlay the way we could do with aufs, pity...

Glad to hear you are moving towards using overlayfs, since it is indeed the future and also has the advantage that kernels don't need to be custom built for aufs so can use standard well-tested upstream kernels since overlayfs capability included. Yes, pity about the load on the fly situation, though, depending on a person's OS usage, that is a minor issue really. I'm pretty sure someone will end up putting in the work to allow an alternative load on the fly sfs capability (I'm also pretty sure it can be done via nested overlays but since I hardly ever use sfs other than those I want in permanently at boot time I've never gone further than some simple experiments that convinced me it can be done). I also feel that overlayfs is a bit more efficient in resource usage than aufs, it's simpler under the hood anyway, but I haven't tested that thought quantitatively in any way so maybe I'm imagining it.

rufwoof also experimented with saving changes using overlayfs on WeeDogLinux, and provided tons of interesting ideas for all sorts of useful purposes (such as roll-back changes) though I've been too busy to implement his ideas as yet, but no doubt will eventually.

wiak

Portable browsers and app-images makes load on the fly .sfs files less important than they used to be.

The only ones I use now are java and libre office.

wiak wrote:

I also feel that overlayfs is a bit more efficient in resource usage than aufs, it's simpler under the hood anyway, but I haven't tested that thought quantitatively in any way so maybe I'm imagining it.

Well, I could do a fair comparison, (same kernel, same boot method) and found that RAM usage at initial boot is higher for me with overlay. (on 64-bit system, it's around 200MB, with aufs it's 140MB)
But could reduce initial RAM usage by creating less loop devices in /dev so it's okay.

I'm pretty sure someone will end up putting in the work to allow an alternative load on the fly sfs capability

Yes, hopefully, btw, the 'Dogs' contain (already for years) a script "loadsfs-fuse" meant to load SFS on a full install, but works on frugal too.
(based on an idea from mikeb, using unionfs-fuse and chroot, no aufs required, not merging with the system, just to run a single application)

Fred

Hi! I can't wait to start FatDog64 with overlayfs! To be able to compile the Kernel without the aufs patches. Unfortunately, I cannot contribute technically, due to lack of knowledge ... I can only contribute by testing ... and enthusiastically encouraging those involved! Good luck to all of you and wish you success!

Duprate wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:09 pm

Hi! I can't wait to start FatDog64 with overlayfs! To be able to compile the Kernel without the aufs patches. Unfortunately, I cannot contribute technically, due to lack of knowledge ... I can only contribute by testing ... and enthusiastically encouraging those involved! Good luck to all of you and wish you success!

Thanks Duprate!
I'll come up soon with a new Sid ISO using overlay boot, I'd appreciate testing ! (although the initrd will not work on Fatdog, as it has different setup)

Fred

It must be my time to try some new stuff!

*** DebianDog Sid ISO's updated: 20201124-overlay *** , using overlay instead of aufs now, see also at Changes and Fixes
Boot options are kept exactly the same, see examples here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Debia ... -codes.txt
To add: Besides the EXIT: option (save changes on demand/at shutdown) there's also the +EXIT: option.
With EXIT:, temp changes are in RAM, with +EXIT: not, then the changes are in "tmp-changes" folder next to the "changes" folder (works only on a Linux filesystem)
The +EXIT option can be an advantage if you have little RAM (with EXIT, you may then run out of disk space soon, e.g. when installing many large packages)
Download:
https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid/blob/m ... o-20201124

Fred

With overlay, the way we did load SFS "on the fly" (when using aufs) is not possible (only possible to load at boot by placing .squashfs modules in the 'live' folder).
However there's a way to load e.g. a single application .squashfs, for example I loaded gimp.squashfs (made with apt2sfs) from right-click in pcmanfm "Load module (in chroot)":

Fred

Thanks for the good will fredx181! Downloading DebianDog basic and full ... Soon, let's go to the tests!

Duprate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:08 pm

Thanks for the good will fredx181! Downloading DebianDog basic and full ... Soon, let's go to the tests!

OK Duprate! For info, (in case not clear ) "basic" ISO isn't updated, so still using aufs.

Fred

It's all right! I only installed the full version. I installed it on a partition where I have installed FatDog64 and Debian 10.6 live kit (old Slax). Perfect startup, a very nice look. Beautiful work. Easy settings. In this ultra-fast analysis, I still cannot give any other opinion unless it takes time to get used to and master the system, as I am used to FatDog64. I don't know why almost all distros insist on Firefox ESR, or worse: Seamonkey (I hate it!).
I really liked DebianDog with the boot overlay, it has a promising future. I will continue to use and learn from him. Thanks!

@Duprate I notice you have posted desktops that has a very nice looking blue icon set. What it is and can you please advise where you got it from.

Thank you.

Not important, just for info:
Does not boot via supergrub2 from boot-iso folder, process stops with :
mount: mounting rootOV on /union failed: Invalid argument
sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
Boots from CD with no issues.

Dell DM051, Pentium D 915, 3 GB RAM

TerryH wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:46 pm

@Duprate I notice you have posted desktops that has a very nice looking blue icon set. What it is and can you please advise where you got it from.

Thank you.

Hi! The neon icons are not mine. They are used in some puppies. I just edited them in PhotoShop, put frames. If you want you can download them from here: It is no longer available!

Thanks for sharing.

dellus wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:41 pm

Not important, just for info:
Does not boot via supergrub2 from boot-iso folder, process stops with :
mount: mounting rootOV on /union failed: Invalid argument
sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
Boots from CD with no issues.

Dell DM051, Pentium D 915, 3 GB RAM

Good info, thanks.
I've found that it's the "Always Fresh" boot entry that fails because of the parameter "base_only", I've made a mistake with that.
Will fix soon.

Fred

*** DebianDog Sid ISO's updated: 20201125-overlay ***

- Fixed the "Always Fresh" entry (previously it failed to boot).

Download: https://github.com/DebianDog/Sid/blob/m ... o-20201125

Fred

With a few hours of use, I can configure something ... customize Firefox ESR ... add the microcode (it didn't work, maybe the kernel was not configured for that). The save file I converted to changes.squashfs. Now, I surf the web, almost unconcerned (as root?), With the dismounted drives. My portables (LibreOffice, PupSysInfo and Gimp) worked well. I am enjoying it ... I will try to compile the 5.4.80 kernel, straight from the official source. If it works, I'll post ...

I noticed in this and also in another Debian, that when you quickly scroll the image on the screen in a vertical direction, the image is shaky right in the center of the desktop ...