Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

There have been countless threads on the forum from people that have had issues creating USB's and subsequent problems with booting. In the past I hadn't had any such issues, and where appropriate I've attempted to give useful tips. Previously I would download the ISO file and create the USB with whatever was handy, depending on which laptop I was using, what took my fancy that day, etc. It didn't seem to matter which method I used, Rufus, Ventoy, MX Linux USB maker, whatever, they all booted. Fair enough there were some issues with creating Save files in some instances, but they at least booted.

That is until recently. I decided to give F96 and KLV Airedale a spin. Oh dear, what's happening here? Ok, I got them both to boot eventually, but I had never had to mess around with different USB creators in the past, and finding that 2 or 3 don't work.

So what's changed? Either I've just been dead lucky in the past, or, for example, Bionic32 has some magic ingredient, or more likely there's something different in more modern Pups.

Anyone got any ideas, suggestions or answers?

i agree that booting from a USB was always easy and remains so, as far as I know, using the Puppy tools. I especially like that I can easily do a UEFI/Legacy boot USB. However, whilst Ventoy always worked for Puppies I did get failures on some more recent ones and just put it down to whatever and worked around it. However, I don't know why I had issues and will follow this topic with interest.

Having been "around the block" as many times as I have, I tend to take the path of least resistance. A 'manual' install, followed by manual editing of Grub4DOS. Running all Puppies from sub-directories on the same partition, all the editing consists of is to copy an entry - ANY entry - then edit maybe half-a-dozen words across four different lines.

This works for everything except KLV, but that's because the boot entry is a bit different here.

I can't remember the last time I bothered with ANY of the installer tools, 'cos I honestly find the quick'n'dirty method so much simpler & easier these days. At one time, I would never have imagined I'd ever hear myself saying that....but it's true.

Mike.

@stevie pup

Will be glad to assist you with F96 since I'm currently working on its boot issues, do need info:
-Puppy distro release version
-Install program and version (Unetbootin, Rufus, etc.)
-USB flash format (with any format it's good practice to delete any existing files)
-target computer boot config, MBR (legacy) or UEFI
-boot error or failure

Do take a look here too: viewtopic.php?t=8026

Thanks
wizard

Completely agree with you , I don't know what is happening with puppy but each day I have dificulties when installing.

stevie pup wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:35 pm

There have been countless threads on the forum from people that have had issues creating USB's and subsequent problems with booting. In the past I hadn't had any such issues, and where appropriate I've attempted to give useful tips. Previously I would download the ISO file and create the USB with whatever was handy, depending on which laptop I was using, what took my fancy that day, etc. It didn't seem to matter which method I used, Rufus, Ventoy, MX Linux USB maker, whatever, they all booted. Fair enough there were some issues with creating Save files in some instances, but they at least booted.

That is until recently. I decided to give F96 and KLV Airedale a spin. Oh dear, what's happening here? Ok, I got them both to boot eventually, but I had never had to mess around with different USB creators in the past, and finding that 2 or 3 don't work.

So what's changed? Either I've just been dead lucky in the past, or, for example, Bionic32 has some magic ingredient, or more likely there's something different in more modern Pups.

Anyone got any ideas, suggestions or answers?

Hi @stevie pup I'll try to help. BTW: @wizard, too, can be helpful as he, too, has used the various distros this forum offers.

stevie pup wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:35 pm

... give F96 and KLV Airedale a spin. Oh dear, what's happening here? Ok, I got them both to boot eventually, but I had never had to mess around with different USB creators in the past, and finding that 2 or 3 don't work. ...So what's changed? Either I've just been dead ...
Anyone got any ideas, suggestions or answers?

Puppy Linux updated its boot strategy to use the worldwide GRUB2 process as it continously gets updated addressing the hardware changes we all experience as equipment is changed. This applies to PCs BIOSes, PC UEFIs, USB standards and the various PC boards as well and USB manufacturers controllers undergo constant evolution. GRUB2 works! Whether we like it or not and the world continues to insure it has the ability to address the needs for all of us who boot PCs.

OK, getting that understanding in the forefront, lets focus particularly on the years in Puppyland (aka the forum) where EVERY distro here, since I been aware, has stepped forward in its use as we try to keep up with the ever changing landscape in technology. Lets focus on Puppyland since 2019.

You may want a simple solution, but, I think this awareness could be helpful although a bit wordy.

Their are 4 different forum technologies that I will 'attempt' to corral into a single understanding.
The boot technologies are present in

• FATDOG

• WoofCE PUPs

• DOGs such as DebianDog(s)

• KLV distros

ALL of these successfully boot, but each of their boot strategies use GRUB2, AND, there are some differences in exactly how they do to assure their distros boot. (DO NOT view any of this as any one better than the other...that would be a wrong sighted approach)

The ISO writers
AS such, and NO FAULT of the forum distros, the various ISO writers in their own way see ISOs slightly differently and each contributes to this problem you reference. BTW, this has been a traditional problem in Puppyland for the many years it has been around. There have always been these issues with members, new as well as experienced, who have run into the issues of doing a Traditional Frugal! There are too many specific problems and this post will not attempt to focus on any specifics of the plethora that exist. So dont feel alone in the issues you are seeing in use of these ISO writers as it is NOT the fault of the distro developers.

I'll offer A solution that will reduce several of the specific traditional problems we commonly see on this forum for ALL of the distros as it will make it simple to work with the forum distro you find. Over the past few years several of the updates to the boot processing of PUPs have made the solutions I and others are now using to boot forum distros. It accelerates a user to a Frugal existence without the need for the up-front workload. You merely download the ISO file to your USB or disk and boot...DIRECTLY. No need to explore, or explode, or rewrite or make folders, or ... WHILE AT THE SAME TIME eliminating all of the problems associated with any/all of those mentionables. All of the forum distros shown above will boot directly from their ISO yielding a Frugal existence when you same your sessions work.

If you choose to take a look here is what you should expect

1. You will make a USB once in your lifetime

2. You will add whatever forum distros you want to the USB

3. You will boot the USB which will list your downloaded ISOs: Here you select your ISO from the list, and it boot to desktop.

4. You will never again write another ISO or fiddle with Traditional Frugal setup again...unless you choose to.

5. This ability to boot to desktop and save your session is a FRUGAL existence!

Your efforts is now reduced to just making the USB, ONCE in its lifetime!

There are 2 technologies ever present in the forum that afford this for members and there are many members who use them. Thus, if you have questions, which so far are rare at all for so many past uses, there are members who can advise.

These technology bypasses the many problems seen in the past for members trying to setup for booting; as it reduces the forum experience to a mere download the ISO file and boot it.

Let us know if you find this appealing and we can steer you to where on the forum you can find what I express.

P.S. The 2 solutions this post is offering DO NOT ADDRESS ANY FORUM DISTRO BEFORE 2019!!! They use older technology and the forum has moved on beyond them. All development has its hands full with the efforts of today.

Here is a topic on how I fixed F96-CE_1 to get it to boot from an install on a USB stick.
viewtopic.php?t=8103

Fixed a manual install and an install using Unetbootin v 702

@wizard , @Clarity and everyone else that's commented in this thread, thank you to you all.

I've been running some tests with the F96-CE_1 ISO using different methods. I've tried Rufus, Ventoy (both with and without SG2D), Yumi, MX Linux Live USB maker, and Balena Etcher. Yes I know it's been previously stated that Balena won't work, but me being me had to find out why not.

I still have two versions of Rufus, 3.11 and 3.2, so tried them both, and got same results from both. Right near the start it comes up as Booting Kernel, then I got an excessive delay, not seconds but 4 or 5 minutes. I also got this with Ventoy (with SG2D) and Yumi. In some cases I also got the "Waiting for partition......Fail", and "Pausing for 60 seconds" before eventually booting up. I have read the thread about the bug in F96 which I think covers "Waiting for partition etc" so hopefully that will be sorted soon. Not sure about the delay in booting kernel though.

Ventoy without SG2D got all the above errors, then failed completely. I think there was a message saying it couldn't find something, maybe SFS file.
MX Live USB maker didn't work at all, didn't even recognise the USB stick. I tried a couple just to make sure it wasn't the sticks themselves, and used one of them for something else as another check.
Balena gives the "Missing Partition Table" error. I'm no expert so don't know what that means or what causes it.

As a comparison, Bionic32 boots up perfectly and without issue using any and all of the above USB creation methods. Also, I don't remember having any issues booting Tahr, Stretch, Bionic64, Fossa or Radky's Buster. Which is really the point I was getting at in my OP.

Looking at things from the perspective of someone that's new, not just to Puppy but perhaps new to Linux generally, if they have to fight their way through this lot straight off they're probably going to run a mile and end up using Linux Mint or something similar.

Hi @stevie pup

The Ventoy website does a great job where they offer instruction to create the Ventoy bootable unit in any of 3 ways. That the beauty of what they do as they eliminate all of the open/closed source utilities into their singularity of instructions. In my multiple years of use, their instructions are 'spot on' to get a bootable unit.

Over the years, here on the forum, with the help of members and myself, we have found ways to boot the Ventoy UNIT and use/test forum distros by adding a single folder to keep ISO files on their UNIT and offering instructions how-where to place Session Saves.This info is solely for use in this puppyland community, but also, is generally applicable to a LARGE number (hundreds, in fact) of distrowatch ISO files too.

The WoofCE ISOs have some hidden gems by @gyrog that has made WoofCE session discovery and use so very simple, too.

Questions

1. When you created your Vendoy bootable unit, which did you create it from using their instructions:

   • their Linux script?

   • their Windows program?

   • their Linux ISO?

2. Did you tailor your bootable or did you take the default build options?

3. If you tailored, which options did you choose for your PC's use?

.
I think I see a silver lining for a simple instructional pathway. Your step you used would be helpful

Clarity wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:47 pm

1. When you created your Vendoy bootable unit, which did you create it from using their instructions:

   • their Linux script?

   • their Windows program?

   • their Linux ISO?

2. Did you tailor your bootable or did you take the default build options?

3. If you tailored, which options did you choose for your PC's use?

.

Hi @Clarity The Ventoy stick I'm using at the moment was created on my Windows 7 laptop, but if it's likely to make any difference I can always make another on a Linux system. No I didn't bother "tailoring" anything, I just left everything at the defaults. As I've said before, most Puppies (and other Linux distros) have generally booted up fine, so I didn't see any need to mess around with it.

As things stand at the moment, with this known bug in F96, I might leave things for a while until that's sorted then come back to F96. I don't currently have any great need or desire to change my present Fossapup set up. This all started simply because when there's something new I like to give it a spin, in the same way that I occasionally give "unofficial" Puppies a spin, just to try them out and see what's what.

@stevie pup Thanks for that info. It is certainly helpful in my understanding.

Last questions

• Are you keeping ALL of your bootable ISO and IMG files in the 'BOOTISOS' folder on the Ventoy unit?

• Do you keep ALL of your session files on a partition somewhere that is labeled 'Persistence' in a folder on it, named 'Sessions'?

Curious to the layout you are using.

Thanks for sharing your experience with us on this thread.

Personally, I can't see the point in constantly steering people to alternative 'workarounds' for booting the newest Pups. Surely to God, the answer that makes most sense is to fix these Puppies so that they'll boot normally without needing 'workarounds'....

Makes sense to me. Am I the only one that thinks this way?

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:33 pm

Personally, I can't see the point in constantly steering people to alternative 'workarounds' for booting the newest Pups. Surely to God, the answer that makes most sense is to fix these Puppies so that they'll boot normally without needing 'workarounds'....

Makes sense to me. Am I the only one that thinks this way?

Mike.

Nope you're not the only one. Yep, agreed. Throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks randomly makes no sense to me. Change can be good, but it should be reasoned. Jim

Clarity wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:47 pm

Are you keeping ALL of your bootable ISO and IMG files in the 'BOOTISOS' folder on the Ventoy unit?

Originally I didn't have a 'BOOTISOS' folder, all the ISO's were just copied to the stick and that was it, didn't need to do anything else. When I added SG2D then I created the 'BOOTISOS' folder, and all ISO's are in it.

Clarity wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:47 pm

Do you keep ALL of your session files on a partition somewhere that is labeled 'Persistence' in a folder on it, named 'Sessions'?

I don't have any persistence or Save files/folders. My primary use of Ventoy with Puppy is the same as it is with any other Linux distro, that is simply to boot something up, have a look at it and give it a try. Then I decide if I want to do anything further with it. At the moment the only Puppy I'm using on a regular basis is the original Fossapup, which I've got frugally installed to a portable hard drive. Works for me.

Must say I'm often glad all my laptops are fairly old so only have Legacy BIOS. No doubt if I had something newer with UEFI, Secure Boot, and all that rubbish it would be yet another fly in the ointment.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:33 pm

Personally, I can't see the point in constantly steering people to alternative 'workarounds' for booting the newest Pups. Surely to God, the answer that makes most sense is to fix these Puppies so that they'll boot normally without needing 'workarounds'....

Yes Mike, fully agree, that's my line of thinking. Throughout this thread I've been half expecting someone to tell me it's "progress".

stevie pup wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:08 pm

My primary use ... any other Linux distro, that is simply to boot something up, have a look at it and give it a try. ...

+1