Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Boot from thumb drive
Takes 5 minutes to load savefile (I did not have any choice).

Previous screen settings do not return. I change screen settings and click apply.

Everything freezes, screen, mouse, keyboard. After 5 seconds, both laptop screen and monitor go black.

==================
Boot from CD
I get to the screen settings (image above) and the same thing happens.

==================
Boot from internal NVME drive
Failed.

I figure something must have happened to limine.cfg. I suspect file corruption.

==================
Successful Boot from EasyOS thumb drive.

A big problem for me with EasyOS is that the screen settings are not working properly. When I choose the monitor only and close the laptop, the monitor goes black. Luckily no freezing, but I must keep the laptop open. I use Limine bootloader to re-establish limine.cfg on the NVME drive.

==================
Boot from NVME drive is now successful
I was given the choice of loading savefile 0, 1 or 2 and I chose 2 which is the newest.
As always, I had to reconfigure the screen settings.

I am afraid to re-boot because I don't know what could happen next. How can I fix any of this?

Looking at the first screenshot it seems to indicate that there is a save file resizing process taking place to increase the save file's storage size. This action will take longer to complete the larger the resize is going to be. Did you start the resizing?

I am afraid to re-boot because I don't know what could happen next. How can I fix any of this?

You are worried that a reboot will cause the session not to be saved? And you can't get Fossapup64-9.5 to boot with correct saved settings?

Governor wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:45 pm

Boot from thumb drive
Takes 5 minutes to load savefile (I did not have any choice).

It took 5 minutes to expand the save file to whatever size you chose at last shutdown. That's normal.

Previous screen settings do not return. I change screen settings and click apply.

You also would need to click the "save" button for settings to be persistent.

==================
Boot from CD
I get to the screen settings (image above) and the same thing happens.

Have you tried using the edp laptop monitor as the primary instead of HDMI?

==================
Boot from internal NVME drive
Failed.
I figure something must have happened to limine.cfg. I suspect file corruption.

Bootloader can't find a kernel to load. Is there a file called "vmlinuz" on your nvme drive in the fossapup folder?

A big problem for me with EasyOS is that the screen settings are not working properly. When I choose the monitor only and close the laptop, the monitor goes black. Luckily no freezing, but I must keep the laptop open. I use Limine bootloader to re-establish limine.cfg on the NVME drive.

When you close the laptop lid the monitors are going to sleep. If EasyOS has settings for that, find them and adjust.

Governor wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:45 pm

Boot from thumb drive
Takes 5 minutes to load savefile (I did not have any choice).

@Governor on a fresh first save in FP64, it should ask if want a save folder (recommended) or save file. Maybe you clicked on save file? Save folder is the way to go. Can you log into FP64 with ram only, then change names of the save file, e.g. fossapupsave64.savefile to zfossapupsave64.savefile and reboot. This should give u a chance to save to a save folder when u poweroff.

For save folder to be an offered choice.
The partition the save will be placed on has to be a Linux format. ext 2, 3, or 4.

Previous screen settings do not return. I change screen settings and click apply.

what settings are you changing?

bigpup wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:40 pm

Previous screen settings do not return. I change screen settings and click apply.

what settings are you changing?

I must turn the laptop eDP screen completely off in order get the monitor to work properly. I set the monitor to Primary with Resolution: 1920x1080 and Refresh Rate: 74.91. I can then see the entire desktop on my screen.

The screen settings just don't stick. The keyboard, language and timezone settings return as long as a savefile is read in. The firewall usually comes back on. I often have to fiddle with the network connection. I do not use WiFi, I have a USB ethernet card.

bigpup wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:38 pm

For save folder to be an offered choice.
The partition the save will be placed on has to be a Linux format. ext 2, 3, or 4.

I was under the impression that as long as the savefile itself is in one of those formats, it can be placed on a different partition type.
I think I have been using savefiles on FAT32.
I decided to use FAT32 because I experienced a lot of files getting corrupted when I copied files from ext4--->FAT32--->ext4

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:03 pm

bigpup wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:38 pm

For save folder to be an offered choice.
The partition the save will be placed on has to be a Linux format. ext 2, 3, or 4.

I was under the impression that as long as the savefile itself is in one of those formats, it can be placed on a different partition type.
I think I have been using savefiles on FAT32.
I decided to use FAT32 because I experienced a lot of files getting corrupted when I copied files from ext4--->FAT32--->ext4

A save FOLDER must be on a linux formated partition. A save FILE can be on about any file system formated partition. This is because the save FILE in itself contains a linux formated filesystem.

rockedge wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:59 pm

Looking at the first screenshot it seems to indicate that there is a save file resizing process taking place to increase the save file's storage size. This action will take longer to complete the larger the resize is going to be. Did you start the resizing?

I am afraid to re-boot because I don't know what could happen next. How can I fix any of this?

You are worried that a reboot will cause the session not to be saved? And you can't get Fossapup64-9.5 to boot with correct saved settings?

I never know what will happen when I re-boot; which boot will fail or which boot will actually be successful. On the bright side, my settings (except screen settings) usually return now.
Firefox portable sometimes starts with no extensions or add-ons, and I must re-add them manually one at a time. It seems like it depends on where I run Firefox from. In my opinion portable means I should be able to run an app from any directory as long as all the files are intact as they were unzipped. but it does not seem to work like that with Firefox. I am just guessing based on my experience. I suppose it may be a file corruption issue, I don't know. Perhaps Firefox is only portable relative to the OS so each boot location must have its own Firefox?

amethyst wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:21 pm

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:03 pm

bigpup wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 12:38 pm

For save folder to be an offered choice.
The partition the save will be placed on has to be a Linux format. ext 2, 3, or 4.

I was under the impression that as long as the savefile itself is in one of those formats, it can be placed on a different partition type.
I think I have been using savefiles on FAT32.
I decided to use FAT32 because I experienced a lot of files getting corrupted when I copied files from ext4--->FAT32--->ext4

A save FOLDER must be on linux formated partition. A save FILE can be on about any file system formated partition. This is because the save file in itself contains a linux formated filesystem.

How about if I make a dedicated partition for a save folder and use that partition only for the save folder? How large should I make it?
I already have a FAT32 boot partition at 300MB, a FAT32 main partition at 448 GB, and a swap partition at 28GB. I could easily reduce the main partition and create an ext4 partition for the save folder.

Memory looks like this:

Memory Allocation:
 Total RAM: 9907 MB
 Used RAM: 4444 MB
 Free RAM: 5463 MB
 Buffers: 364 MB
 Cached: 1806 MB
 Total Swap: 29001 MB
 Free Swap: 29001 MB

 Actual Used RAM: 2274 MB  	Used - (buffers + cached)
 Actual Free RAM: 7633 MB	Free + (buffers + cached)

geo_c wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:05 pm

Bootloader can't find a kernel to load. Is there a file called "vmlinuz" on your nvme drive in the fossapup folder?

I don't know how it got into the home folder because I never created a home folder.
/mnt/home/fossapup64_9.5/vmlinuz

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:22 pm

rockedge wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 1:59 pm

Looking at the first screenshot it seems to indicate that there is a save file resizing process taking place to increase the save file's storage size. This action will take longer to complete the larger the resize is going to be. Did you start the resizing?

Someone said I could increase the savefile size. I tried that and the message said it would increase the size on the next boot. No problem there, it looks like it worked, I just don't know where the savefile is.

I am afraid to re-boot because I don't know what could happen next. How can I fix any of this?

You are worried that a reboot will cause the session not to be saved? And you can't get Fossapup64-9.5 to boot with correct saved settings?

I never know what will happen when I re-boot; which boot will fail or which boot will actually be successful. On the bright side, my settings (except screen settings) usually return now.
Firefox portable sometimes starts with no extensions or add-ons, and I must re-add them manually one at a time. It seems like it depends on where I run Firefox from. In my opinion portable means I should be able to run an app from any directory as long as all the files are intact as they were unzipped. but it does not seem to work like that with Firefox. I am just guessing based on my experience. I suppose it may be a file corruption issue, I don't know. Perhaps Firefox is only portable relative to the OS so each boot location must have its own Firefox?

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:06 pm

geo_c wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:05 pm

Bootloader can't find a kernel to load. Is there a file called "vmlinuz" on your nvme drive in the fossapup folder?

I don't know how it got into the home folder because I never created a home folder.
/mnt/home/fossapup64_9.5/vmlinuz

home is part of the installed file system. if you create a directory on your device when the device is mounted in a different boot session, (for instance you were booted from a usb and looking at the nvme as a device to perform an operation on), that path will not be the same as it is when you are booted from the nvme.

the filesystem you see on your booted device, when in a session, is layered with the decompressed .sfs

just to confirm, locating vmlinuz is a moot point, because you can boot from your nvme with limine now?

williwaw wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:40 pm

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:06 pm

geo_c wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 2:05 pm

Bootloader can't find a kernel to load. Is there a file called "vmlinuz" on your nvme drive in the fossapup folder?

I don't know how it got into the home folder because I never created a home folder.
/mnt/home/fossapup64_9.5/vmlinuz

home is part of the installed file system. if you create a directory on your device when the device is mounted in a different boot session, (for instance you were booted from a usb and looking at the nvme as a device to perform an operation on), that path will not be the same as it is when you are booted from the nvme.

the filesystem you see on your booted device, when in a session, is layered with the decompressed .sfs

just to confirm, locating vmlinuz is a moot point, because you can boot from your nvme with limine now?

This path changing is super confusing. pMount shows that NVME partition #1 is my boot location, but I can't find it in the file manager. Yet, in pMount when I right click, I can choose show location.
Other drives must be mounted in order to "show location".

Yes, I booted with the NVME drive, after re-installing the Limine boot loader from an EasyOS thumb drive.

I can't tell you what to do but I'll just give a few pointers and relay the way I have been operating Puppy for years:
1. Available RAM and swap file or swap partition has to do with your system operational needs. You have plenty of RAM and a massive swap partition. Not sure what kind of stuff you do but in comparison, I only have 2GB of RAM and my swap file is 500MB but I'm a minimal user.
2. Your save file or save folder has to do with the amount of space you need to save your system changes.
3. Personally, I do not install stuff but make use of either sfs add-ons (which are loaded from the Puppy partition) or portable applications. Doing it this way, one can operate with a very small save file or save folder to basically save system configurations changes ONLY. With small, I mean very small like about 100MB or even less. I don't use a save file /folder myself but save my configuration changes to an adrv..but this is maybe a discussion for another day. I recommend the use of a small save file as mentioned for new users. My whole operating system is very close to a read-only system with very little chance of file corruption.
4. I have a dual-boot system on an old machine. Windows XP is installed on my first partition of 8 GB (it's NTFS) and I also boot from this partition with Grub4Dos installed there as bootloader. My 2nd partition is my huge partition where I store most of my data, that's an ntfs partition. My third partition is where I keep all my Puppy files and is about 7 GB in size (good enough for my specific use). I have several Puppy frugal installs on there and also run my sfs add-ons and portable applications from this ext3 linux partition. If you use a save file, it should also preferably be on this linux partition. So, basically I do all my Puppy related stuff on this linux partition. Never had any issues.

if you open rox by clicking on the file icon in the upper left, you are looking at the filesystem as it exists in memory. its virtual. it does not exist the way you see it on disk.
an older explanation of how the different files on disk are layered in memory is here, some things have changed but the basics are still pertinent
https://bkhome.org/archive/puppylinux/d ... works.html

to see your nvme, look in the lower left at each partition.
you can change the view of the icons in the lower left from partitions to disk by menu>system>puppy event manager>rox icons>uncheck box for "show desktop icons for each partition"

@Governor

some basics:

1) What a filesystem looks like to your file manager, and the way it is actually structured are not the same. This is true in all operating ystems, and perhaps a little more in puppy.

2) /mnt/home is a link to the device where the running operating system files reside. If you're running from any drive, USB or hard drive, /mnt/home will show you what's on that drive. If you're running completely from RAM and aren't mounted to a drive, then /mnt/home will not be attached to any of your physical drives. The user doesn't create /mnt/home. It's created by the operating system.

3) Save Folders and Save Files are your personal user settings and applications. This is basically puppy specific technology, and you need to understand how to work with them to get anywhere. Many have posted responses and explained, please don't make me find those posts.

4) Bootloaders are all slightly different or hugely different. Once you pick a tool it pays to learn all you can about how it works and what the config syntax means. If for some reason you find the bootloader fails, understanding how it works allows you to run the install routine again to fix it, like you did in this case.

5) Running the same pup from several different locations/drives requires precise organizational attention. Managing save files and save folders also requires organizational attention. If it's difficult to be sure what drive the OS is running from, and which save file is loaded and from what drive, confusion ensues.

So with that in mind, I suggest that if your nvme install boots and works. Just use it and it alone. Just like I suggested weeks ago to only boot a usb install until you learn how to manage your savefiles.

I'm confident that I'm giving you sound advice.

geo_c wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:08 pm

@Governor

So with that in mind, I suggest that if your nvme install boots and works. Just use it and it alone. Just like I suggested weeks ago to only boot a usb install until you learn how to manage your savefiles.

I am fine with booting from my internal NVME drive as long as it will keep booting, since it is theoretically the fastest possible option I have. I don't know yet how often I will have to boot from my EasyOS thumb to re-install Limine bootloader. So far, I am not turning off the laptop because I fear it may not boot again.

I don't know why I am not allowed to edit text documents.
http://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.p ... ad8#p76332

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:26 pm

So far, I am not turning off the laptop because I fear it may not boot again.

I don't know why I am not allowed to edit text documents.
http://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.p ... ad8#p76332

There's still the possibility that your laptop has hardware issues. But due to the fact that you are operating the system with very large gaps in your understanding of how it all fits together, it's a flip of the coin as to whether it's hardware related or operator error.

I've never had a windows computer that got so fouled up it couldn't even boot the cd rescue disk. I'm sure other people have, but I'm hugely curious as to how that scenario unfolded. If hardware went bad, so be it, stuff breaks, but I'm betting that there was more to it than that.

If windows was crashing because hardware is intermittently failing, then linux won't do any better. On the other hand, it there was a series of actions you took that caused the boot issues, those would be worth remembering.

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:32 pm

How about if I make a dedicated partition for a save folder and use that partition only for the save folder? How large should I make it

Here' the thing, there's a better scenario, but it requires installing the bootloader again, or editing it.

It goes like this:

• format the 1st nvme with a fat32 to install limine. (Or just leave the current fat32 partition the way it is if it's small enough) Make it however big that limine needs it to be. Probably not very big. 1GB I think would be sufficiently large for a bootloader partition.

• format a second partition ext4 and install your fossapup64_9.5 files to it. Either using the fossapup installer, or by copying them.

• run limine bootloader setup utility, and tell it to boot fossapup from the ext4 partition.

• I suggest make that ext4 partition extremely huge and put all your data and installs on it. There are other approaches of course.

With that setup you can boot fossapup from nvme, let the shutdown routine make a save folder in the same directory as the fossapup system is installed, which is where it will do by default. You can make personal non-puppy-system data folders on that ext4 partition outside the save file and read and write to them easily because they will be located in /mnt/home.

if it appears that fossa cannot write to the nvme, then

EasyOS on a USB? if so, the easiest would be

1. boot into easy
2. download the latest easyOS .img
3. run easyDD to install easy to the nvme.
installing this way will put a boot loader on the drive without having to do any disk prep. fossa will be lost, but it can be easily added back. if there is a fossa savefile on the nvme, it should be moved to the usb, then copied back once fossa is reinstalled

a fossa frugal can be added alongside the easy later once it is verified easy can make changes and survive a number of reboots

should you choose this course of action, unplug all other drives except the easy usb when making the install, and when first booting easy on the nvme
do not make a encrypted password during boot
reboot twice before making any changes at all
try to run without any external drive for at least a half a dozen reboots when setting up your desktop etc. do not try to configure your external monitor at this time

Governor wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:54 pm

This path changing is super confusing. pMount shows that NVME partition #1 is my boot location, but I can't find it in the file manager. Yet, in pMount when I right click, I can choose show location.
Other drives must be mounted in order to "show location".

Yes, I booted with the NVME drive, after re-installing the Limine boot loader from an EasyOS thumb drive.

Now it occurs to me that you're saying you can't see your nvme drive. BUT, if you are booted from it, it will be showing up AS /mnt/home, and NOT AS /mnt/some-drive-letter. So if you can look in /mnt/home and see files while booting from nvme, then you are seeing nvme in the file manager.

So @williwaw is going with the assumption that fossa can't write to nvme. I'm not saying that it can or can't at this particular moment, but obviously if you've been booting from it, and if you installed fossa to it from a running fossapup, then fossapup CAN write to it.

Can you look into that a little?

If you can see the files on nvme from /mnt/home, and all is as expected, then doing my previously suggested format arrangement will allow you to run a system completely from nvme and create a save folder, which is fast and flexible. BUT you would have to do the formatting of nvme while running from USB of course.

EDIT: I'm adding this as I don't think you've read these posts yet, and I think what @williaw says below and above may be a really good course of action. It will rule out or confirm issues writing to your nvme drive. Unless you find that booting, running, and saving fossapup to nvme is now working, then you might want to stick with that and let us help you manage the pupsave file and eventually convert to a pupsave folder.

geo_c wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 11:24 pm

So @williwaw is going with the assumption that fossa can't write to nvme. I'm not saying that it can or can't at this particular moment, but obviously if you've been booting from it, and you installed fossa to it from a running fossapup, then fossapup CAN write to it.

well geo , you are correct about assumptions being made. Maybe I have missed it, but was there a fossa install on a USB somewhere ? I was under the impression the fossa files were extracted using the easy USB. and even if a USB fossa was used to write fossa to to the nvme, that does not rule out that the fossa install on the nvme might not be corrupted.

If a a nvme easy cannot save changes, thats some additional evidence the nvme itself might be problematic. I admire govs persistence, but surely wish he would tell us more about his laptop
make, mode.l specs, whether the nvme is the original internal drive or perhaps one that was added later , its form factor, etc.
whether any of the other drives that were seen by fdisk were internal

@geo_c @williwaw

This is what I have now on my NVME internal drive:

How do I create a save folder on the ext4 partition, and is the partition large enough?

AND:
It seems like Puppy cannot handle FAT32 (so far I cannot save a file I have edited), even though the file I opened is on an external FAT32 drive to begin with and I am trying to save it in the same place. Does anyone have any info on this?

If I can't edit/save files on FAT32, then my last resort will be to try NTFS, because I ALSO need access to my files from a Windows computer.

Thanks!

It seems like Puppy cannot handle FAT32 (so far I cannot save a file I have edited), even though the file I opened is on an external FAT32 drive to begin with and I am trying to save it in the same place. Does anyone have any info on this?

How big is the file?
Fat32 has a max file size limit of 4GB.

To access any drive partition by using the Rox file manager.
The partition has to first be mounted for Rox to see it.
That is what the drive icons on the desktop are for. Each partition will have an icon.
Left click on one of the drive icons, to mount the partition, the icon is for.

To un-mount the drive partition.
Left click on the mount symbol, on the top right of the drive desktop icon.

To access it in Rox, navigate to /mnt/
There you should see a directory, representing the partition, with the same label, as it's desktop drive icon label.
Left click on directory to access what is on the partition.

The drive partition, the Puppy Linux install is on, and running from.
In Rox is /mnt/home
That partition is always mounted and cannot be unmounted.

Note:
Best way to use Rox file manager. (move or copy)
Open two Rox windows.
One open to location you have something you want to move or copy to other location.
One open to the location you want to copy or move it to.
Drag and drop between the two Rox windows.
An option menu will show giving selection on what to do.

bigpup wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:03 am

It seems like Puppy cannot handle FAT32 (so far I cannot save a file I have edited), even though the file I opened is on an external FAT32 drive to begin with and I am trying to save it in the same place. Does anyone have any info on this?

How big is the file?
Fat32 has a max file size limit of 4GB.

The file size is around 270KB. It is an .odt document file which I opened in Abiword.

Puppy has trashed a few files now on my external USB FAT32, so I decided to unmount the drive and do a file check:

I then took the drive to a Windows computer and ran

chkdsk /f

:

Windows found no problems on the drive. So why did Puppy unmount the drive improperly? What does it mean about the "dirty bit"?

snipped 8<--------------------

Do not use Abiword.

That thing is constantly doing strange stuff.

I am not sure it can even work with .odt type files.

Install and use LibreOffice or OpenOffice and their writer programs.

bigpup wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 9:11 am

Do not use Abiword.

That thing is constantly doing strange stuff.

I am not sure it can even work with .odt type files.

Install and use LibreOffice or OpenOffice and their writer programs.

I double clicked on an .odt file and it opened automatically in Abiword. This is disappointing, I was counting on Puppy NOT being loaded up with bad software. Are there other programs I should avoid? Does anyone have a list?

How do I completely remove Abiword?

I have LibreOffice portable.

How do I associate document files with LibreOffice?

Abiword is not a bad program it is just limited on what it can do.
And it is suppose to have plug ins that can add features and support.
Have you read the help for it?

LibreOffice or OpenOffice are just better programs.
that is why they are much bigger and can do more stuff.

How do I associate document files with LibreOffice?

Default Application Chooser program.

How do I completely remove Abiword?

Remove builtin packages program, will delete it, so you do not see or can use it.