Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

https://github.com/vanilla-dpup/unstabl ... 86_64-10.0
https://github.com/vanilla-dpup/unstabl ... p-x86-10.0

These are alphabeta-grade development builds of the next major version of Vanilla Dpup, which will be based on Debian 12 and released shortly after the Debian 12 release. Debian 12 is still in development, so expect these builds to break every once in a while: the kernel changes often and so does the graphics stack but package versions are frozen so breakage is relatively unlikely. The final Vanilla Dpup 10.0.x release is supposed to be a very "complete" release that brings new technology and huge under-the-hood changes, but looks and behaves like a traditional Puppy.

Changes compared to 9.3.x:

• Package updates: all Debian packages are upgraded to the newer versions in Debian 12; currently, Debian 12 uses kernel 6.0.x 6.1.x.

• PipeWire replaces PulseAudio: this may improve stability and reduce latency of Bluetooth audio, among other things.

• Landlock-based sandboxing for applications running as spot, for increased security. Applications running as spot can't see other users and can't read and write to some files (for example, they can't read files under /root even after chmod 777).

• FourThreeTwo flavors for the x86_64 build: X.Org, Xwayland, retro and dwl. Go for the X.Org one if you want the full package and prefer the safe choice, for the Xwayland one if you want smooth rendering and have a non-problematic GPU that's under-utilized when using X.Org (can make a huge difference if you have a slow CPU), for the retro one for something minimal like 9.2.x, or for the dwl one if you want to go wild and try out a minimalistic tiling window manager and a "pure Wayland" experience. You can find a brief comparison between the flavors at the bottom of this page. The Xwayland and dwl flavors are not suitable for testing in virtual machine unless 3D acceleration is enabled: if you use QEMU, pass -vga cirrus.

Stick to 9.3.x if you need something stable. These development releases are provided to collect feedback and generate a new list of issues that need to be fixed before the final release.

Hello @dimkr I hope this view is appreciated by you.

These distros from you are beautiful! They are well thought thru and are very forward thinking as it will help this community of distros to easily move forward with its updated technologies you are leading us into. And this thread 'can' concentrate member concerns about this particular family of distros.

Corollary:
Some species of animals are species within the same family. But a dog is not a wolf nor a coyote nor a dingo.

V10.0.X:
The species of this family are in some cases markedly different: XORG/XWAYLAND/RETRO/DWL/etc.

Questions
Would you want us to report all findings here in this thread? Or under separate Headings in Vanilla V10...? (Yes, I know there is no "Version 10" Heading)

Curious

BTW: Thank you very much for ALL of your contributions including this family of distro products.

Clarity wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:48 pm

Questions
Would you want us to report all findings here in this thread? Or under separate Headings in Vanilla V10...? (Yes, I know there is no "Version 10" Heading)

It doesn't matter, as long as issues are reported in a way that helps me understand and fix them.

Display setting vanilladpup-10.0.118-xwayland for my monitor must be 1680x1050 and scale 1.72 otherwise the screen will blinking.

For xorg the setting is just as usual by 1440x900

esos wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:04 am

Display setting vanilladpup-10.0.118-xwayland for my monitor must be 1680x1050 and scale 1.72 otherwise the screen will blinking.

Can you share the output of wlr-randr?

~$ wlr-randr
HDMI-A-1 "Samsung Electric Company SAMSUNG 0x00000001 (HDMI-A-1)"
Physical size: 160x90 mm
Enabled: yes
Modes:
720x400 px, 70.082001 Hz
640x480 px, 59.939999 Hz
640x480 px, 60.000000 Hz
640x480 px, 66.667000 Hz
640x480 px, 72.808998 Hz
640x480 px, 75.000000 Hz
720x480 px, 59.939999 Hz
720x480 px, 60.000000 Hz
800x600 px, 60.317001 Hz
800x600 px, 72.188004 Hz
800x600 px, 75.000000 Hz
832x624 px, 74.551003 Hz
1024x768 px, 60.004002 Hz
1024x768 px, 70.069000 Hz
1024x768 px, 75.028999 Hz
1280x720 px, 59.939999 Hz
1280x720 px, 60.000000 Hz
1152x864 px, 75.000000 Hz
1280x800 px, 59.910000 Hz
1360x768 px, 60.014999 Hz
1280x960 px, 60.000000 Hz
1440x900 px, 59.901001 Hz
1440x900 px, 74.984001 Hz
1280x1024 px, 60.020000 Hz
1280x1024 px, 75.025002 Hz
1680x1050 px, 59.882999 Hz (current)
1600x1200 px, 60.000000 Hz
1920x1080 px, 23.976000 Hz
1920x1080 px, 24.000000 Hz
1920x1080 px, 29.969999 Hz
1920x1080 px, 30.000000 Hz
1920x1080 px, 59.939999 Hz
1920x1080 px, 60.000000 Hz (preferred)
Position: 0,0
Transform: normal
Scale: 1.718750

After waiting around 2 years, now able to boot Vanilla Dpup 10- org from my internal SSD nvme drive. May be due to original kernel taken from Debian?. Already our beloved Guru @BarryK identified the exact problem in EasyOS for not booting the EasyOS from internal nvme drive. At last now Vanilla Dpup booting from my HP Laptop !. Boot Loader is Limine from EasyOS.

Ramachandran

nnriyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:42 pm

Already our beloved Guru Barry identified the problem in EasyOS for not booting the EasyOS from internal nvme drive.

Every 9.2.x build after https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 30d496c664 should boot fine too, if this was the problem.

dimkr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:12 pm

Every 9.2.x build after https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 30d496c664 should boot fine too, if this was the problem.

Yes, this was the culprit. I have not tested 9.2 in my internal SSD nvme. However, tested 9.3, the result was blank screen. Anyway Vanilla Dpup 10.0.X working in my HP Laptop. Shall required to go back?

While trying to download from SFS repository

See I didn't able to access the root directory while trying to attach above picture from my documents. The error message is given below for your kind perusal.

Could not read the contents of /
Error opening directory '/' permission denied.

Dear dimkr
nice to see Dpup10 having a spot among the the mainline puppies.
Indeed as reported by esos the screen is flickering with any other scaling other than the one picked from the system (2.00 in my case).
Another little thing is that Xlock appears on the desktop even if xlock is not present in the build. I find xlock very cryptic and unfriendly so I do not mind its absence, but the pinboard entry may need to be moved

I also tried Dpup10 in a friend's computer. Xwayland did not work but Xorg went all the way to desktop with full functionality.
That laptop also needed the broadcom-sta driver but surprisingly failed to compile in 121 although it compiled fine in the Xwayland version!
It would appear that something in the Xorg version is not fully compatible with the dkms setup.
Fortunately copying the relevant files from my Xwayland version worked fine, but this cannot be a "solution".
Best

Is this QT Wayland update useful as modernization continues?

retiredt00 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:15 am

It would appear that something in the Xorg version is not fully compatible with the dkms setup.

That's weird because they should be identical in this regard. Do you still have the logs from the build failure?

EDIT: should be fixed in 10.0.121.

Clarity wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:29 am

Is this QT Wayland update useful as modernization continues?

This is off-topic.

dimkr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:34 am

This is off-topic.

To ask it differently, is QT6 recommended for current v10.0.xxx wayland versions?

Clarity wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:01 am

To ask it differently, is QT6 recommended for current v10.0.xxx wayland versions?

Use whatever you can install using apt install and Synaptic. Everything else is not "recommended".

dimkr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:34 am

retiredt00 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:15 am

It would appear that something in the Xorg version is not fully compatible with the dkms setup.

That's weird because they should be identical in this regard. Do you still have the logs from the build failure?

EDIT: should be fixed in 10.0.121.

I had the chance to try it again (starting with pfix=ram) and here it is

DKMS make.log for broadcom-sta-6.30.223.271 for kernel 6.0.8 (x86_64)
Sun Dec 11 01:22:45 PM GMT 2022
CFG80211 API is prefered for this kernel version
Makefile:89: Neither CFG80211 nor Wireless Extension is enabled in kernel
KBUILD_NOPEDANTIC=1 make -C /lib/modules/6.0.8/build M=`pwd`
make[1]: warning: jobserver unavailable: using -j1.  Add '+' to parent make rule.
make[1]: Entering directory '/usr/src/kbuild-6.0.8'
CFG80211 API is prefered for this kernel version
Using CFG80211 API
Kernel architecture is X86_64
  CC [M]  /var/lib/dkms/broadcom-sta/6.30.223.271/build/src/shared/linux_osl.o
gcc: fatal error: cannot execute ‘cc1’: execvp: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
make[2]: *** [scripts/Makefile.build:254: /var/lib/dkms/broadcom-sta/6.30.223.271/build/src/shared/linux_osl.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [Makefile:1876: /var/lib/dkms/broadcom-sta/6.30.223.271/build] Error 2
make[1]: Leaving directory '/usr/src/kbuild-6.0.8'
make: *** [Makefile:181: all] Error 2

I also attache the log from the successful build in the Xwayland version in case it might be of help.
Thank you for the consideration

@retiredt00 Yep, exactly the problem fixed in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 541e68494b, which went into 10.0.122.

I ran Vanilla Dpup64 xwayland 10.0.122 from a usb stick (manual install). I noted a few points:

Changing the global font size in the Font manager (after restarting X) seems to have no effect.

ntfs probably not supported yet.

Freezing when playing an online video in Firefox (full screen). When frozen, it is impossible to disable full screen mode by pressing Esc or F. Ctrl+alt+backspace will only show a black screen with the cursor (no command line). Then only a hard shutdown will help.
I also wanted to try local video playback from a file, but unfortunately I only have a few videos on the ntfs partition.

Feek wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:57 pm

ntfs probably not supported yet.

Does the problem go away if you install ntfs-3g?

dimkr wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 7:04 pm

Feek wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:57 pm

ntfs probably not supported yet.

Does the problem go away if you install ntfs-3g?

sorry, you are right. After installing ntfs-3g, access to ntfs partitions works.

@dimkr @feek shares

Feek wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:57 pm

Freezing when playing an online video in Firefox (full screen). When frozen, it is impossible to disable full screen mode by pressing Esc or F. Ctrl+alt+backspace will only show a black screen with the cursor (no command line). Then only a hard shutdown will help.
I also wanted to try local video playback from a file, but unfortunately I only have a few videos on the ntfs partition.

Question
How does one get to console when the desktop goes wacky such that a desktop session can be restarted? This would be helpful for obvious debug and reporting reasons. Shutdown has been the only option, like @feek reports when this happens in the wayland/dwl releases.

@Clarity Just the regular CTRL+ALT+F2. From there, you can killall dwl and do whatever you want.

Feek wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:27 pm

sorry, you are right. After installing ntfs-3g, access to ntfs partitions works.

Fixed in 10.0.124

dimkr wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:39 am

... regular CTRL+ALT+F2. From there, you can ...

Thanks. I had tried Ctrl-Alt-F1 expecting the console; never thought to try C-A-F2.

Question
After killing the lockup, to restart the Wayland desktop from the C-A-F1 console, what is the recommended restart command?

startdwl, exactly as the message on the screen says.

Dear dimkr
Indeed v123 solves the dkms problem for the xorg versions. Thank you

Another obscure issue I came across is is the the gdebi application freezes if it fails, say in a malformed package. The only way to close it at this point is either to find its PID and kill it or restart X.

Dear dimkr
v125 solves the flickering upon change of screen resolution.
However it still needs few manual steps.
If you go to a higher resolution the rest of the screen remains black and the bottom menu bar disappears. The upper remains in its original position in the middle of the physical screen but at least is usually visible.
Needs an X restart to fix the black screen and then to run "Refresh / Realign existing icons" from the Puppy event manager to reposition the HD icons at the bottom of the screen. Running first refresh icon and then X restart also works.
Going from a higher resolution to a lower resolution, things are better and only needs to refresh the drive icons that are a bit misplaced (but visible).

Dear dimrk
dried to look a bit further into the screen resizing issues above and for me this little change works

--- a/sbin/wmonitors.sh
+++ b/sbin/wmonitors.sh
@@ -244,5 +244,7 @@
 . $CFGDIR/wmon_cmd
 if pidof -s ROX-Filer > /dev/null; then
 	fixPuppyPin
+	clean_desk_icons
 	roxfiler -p ~/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin
+	restartwm
 fi

I'm sure there are better/simpler solutions but this may give you a better idea of the broblem

10.0.126 runs Xwayland as spot, for increased security. It looks like X.Org has an endless stream of security vulnerabilities and Xwayland inherits some of them. This should have zero impact on users.

retiredt00 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:51 pm

I'm sure there are better/simpler solutions but this may give you a better idea of the broblem

The main question is, what resolution/display settings related problems disappear after X is restarted. wlroots 0.16.1 should be released soon and I prefer not to work around problems that might be fixed by it.