Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

read my "outch" mea culpa post
I wont delete ,edit yes..

voidpup64 +11 k6.0.10 ,i like it .
vpm too .
I did tweak it a whole lot to fit my habits...

Curious? got some idea? some proposition to try out?
script to edit? crash bash course to give? comments?
suggestions? is pipewire effective here or am i just using "native" alsa?
any of those are welcome...

note that there are plenty of devs love in all puppy alsa pulse(now) scripts and tweaks over the years,
and , humbly , i understand 0.9 of those...

So, how did i get pipewire with voidpup64...
!!!!!!If really pipewire is effectively used!!! is it?!!!!!!!!!
partially follow this void manual;
https://docs.voidlinux.org/config/media/pipewire.html
(how to use PipeWire, install the pipewire package.)

xbps-install -Su pipewire alsa-pipewire libjack-pipewire apulse wireplumber

****-remove pulseaudio****obselete....read mea culpa

****starting pipewire pipewire-pulse was problematic***
void linux sugestion to :
# mkdir -p /etc/alsa/conf.d
# ln -s /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/50-pipewire.conf /etc/alsa/conf.d
# ln -s /usr/share/alsa/alsa.conf.d/99-pipewire-default.conf /etc/alsa/conf.d
****this was a no go*** any idea?

symlink pipewire pipewire-pulse.desktop to /etc/xdg/autostart/ worked, but ,for now , look like i do need to point to default card ,there, mscw does it.
Testing here if it could be done simply as no-coder i am ,or, "quick&dirty".
so i simply edit /root/Startup/startup-sound
#!/bin/sh
mscw
sleep 2 #if it does something...
exec pipewire &
exec pipewire-pulse &
pmusic -B /usr/share/audio/sys-login.mp3 &

now booting load mscw gui,select default card, peebee bells ring(see note³*)
-of course ;/usr/sbin/mscw: line 9: exec: pulseaudio: not found
(restarting x does say failed to start server on 'unix:/tmp/runtime-root/pulse/native': Address already in use)
and testing:
# pactl info
.....
Server Name: PulseAudio (on PipeWire 0.3.58)
......
#
# wpctl status
PipeWire 'pipewire-0' [0.3.58, root@puppypc17817, cookie:2858968184]
└─ Clients:
31. pipewire-media-session [0.3.58, root@puppypc17817, pid:8100]
32. pipewire-media-session [0.3.58, root@puppypc17817, pid:8100]
34. pipewire-pulse [0.3.58, root@puppypc17817, pid:8094]
56. wpctl [0.3.58, root@puppypc17817, pid:13434]

Audio
├─ Devices:
│ 44. Built-in Audio [alsa]
│
├─ Sinks:
│ * 49. Built-in Audio Analog Stereo [vol: 0.74]
│
├─ Sink endpoints:
│
├─ Sources:
│ * 50. Built-in Audio Analog Stereo [vol: 0.74]
│
├─ Source endpoints:
│
└─ Streams:

Video
├─ Devices:
│ 37. USB 2M WebCam [v4l2]
│ 38. USB 2M WebCam [v4l2]
│ 39. 7840 [v4l2]
│ 40. 7840 [v4l2]
│
├─ Sinks:
│
├─ Sink endpoints:
│
├─ Sources:
│ 45. USB 2M WebCam
│ * 47. 7840
│
├─ Source endpoints:
│
└─ Streams:

Settings
└─ Default Configured Node Names:****funky no default found...but get sound***

# speaker-test -D pipewire

speaker-test 1.2.7

Playback device is pipewire
Stream parameters are 48000Hz, S16_LE, 1 channels
Using 16 octaves of pink noise
ALSA lib pcm.c(snd_pcm_open_noupdate) Unknown PCM pipewire
Playback open error: -2,No such file or directory
#
******i did manage to get the speaker-test to work once with 50-pipewire.conf 99-pipewire-default.conf symlink trick but no sound from anything else!!!?!! ****

Then ,found this: ; default-sink script for pulseaudio.
put it in root/startup. got these results;

note³*sound works even if no peebee bells after choosing default card***
# pactl info
Server Name: PulseAudio (on PipeWire 0.3.58)
......same ....but...
Default Sink: alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1f.3.analog-stereo

# wpctl status
.....same...but....
Settings
└─ Default Configured Node Names:
0. Audio/Sink auto_null

# speaker-test -D pipewire

speaker-test 1.2.7

....same...

Browser got sound/mic input simultaneously with vlc , yoshimi ,+ input ,etc...(as alsa use to..)
Aplication using jack like muse4 appimage application works ,not simultaneously with browser..i guess its possible.
oh, i did installed
jack
alsa-plugins-jack
alsa-utils
jack_capture
libjack
patchage
zita-ajbridge
patchage (which seems ok. under jack apps)
gstreamer1-pipewire
No bluetooth tests (libspa-bluetooth)

*** lots of void packages wont install due to "hold" of some libs applied in voidpup***
***no easyeffect, qpwgraph + many because of this hold*****

edit****Results=no pulseaudio , no fancy pavucontrol system in/out states change of course..plain retrovol only.***of course
Test only on default card here,edit;hdmi work but no automation ,pupcontrol/hw/screen setup is friendly for video+mscw to redirect sound
...slight surface scratching of this young voidpup64/pipewire..
+ learning void linux.

Better latency was not the point here, just testing how pipewire is doing if it does so.

Thanks to all you time givers coding-mindset devs out there..

A week of voidpup64 daily use , i do start to have questions about a lot.

Its quite interesting ,pipewire test on voidpup64, as pulseaudio is removed ,apulse installed and pipewire-pulse invoked ,
i wonder how alsa would do on a fresh installation of voidpup64 if pulseaudio is remove !!
I'll try it ,i'll probably find out if pipewire do the magic or not this way.

I been able to update to latest PipeWire 0.3.61 everything related,work,sound good,sounding even better ,crispier, to my ears.

I did manage to break loose the system 2 time removing orphanes libs with xbps...learning curves.
yes ain't a coder,end user here...living proof you dont need to be a geek to use linux...

Of topic , As much as i believe in going ahead in some way , we're walking further that "fear no root" puppy's motto with evolution ,
with $o many people carrying their bank account/linux based devices in their pocket phone ,
or should i say " pocketable humain brain extension" , $ecurity prime , i guess..
Complexity/security possible on linux is endless...where to draw the line?
gnnaann they say if quantum computing see the light of day in "evils hands" ..
encryption algorithms are pointless..
they'll for sure keep it between 4ft thick walls of concrete..

Me,I'm still using a landline phone ..35ft of cable ,i can talk and answer at front or rear door..
[emoji of neanderthal man face blinking with a stick in one hand and a cell phone in the other]

Test some more and i will share results here.
vverve

First, thanks for all who restrained themself at commenting in words my credibility...
as a tester...among other things..
will edit first post ...or delete it all..
But ;
-fresh voidpup64 dont seems to include pulseaudio at all!!!!

so,as i been upgrading my savefolder from ,hmmmm, maybe from first or fifth to +11,
Was it there somewhere somehow something about me installing pulseaudio sh!t i dont remember installing?
i'm in reflection, i do not remember messing with those.
Was it just a mixmatch of void linux pipewire install instruction i saw somewhere that suggest removing pulseaudio,or suggesting to prevent it from starting
that affected that "my not so there assiduity/tester memories",
i'm in reflection,again...

- libjack-pipewire does require libpulseaudio as dependency...

so , i'll keep digging what's happening , what happend & what will ..
Good thing is anonymity of internet here..on the humility side..

@Vverve :-

TBH, I fail to understand the attention Pipewire is getting from some Puppy community users, and why they seem to be almost wetting themselves with excitement over it. The thing was developed primarily with FlatPak & Wayland support in mind, and appears to take for granted that the entire Linux community will eventually "toe the line" & meekly adopt this model simply because RedHat "decrees" it.....which, let's face it, IS what usually happens.

There's currently some Puppy experimentation with Wayland. But not many Puppians are that excited about FlatPak, given that it requires a large, permanent framework to be in place in order for FlatPaks to function.....and bloat is antithetical to the Puppy approach to things.

(*shrug*)

Mike.

At the moment, I'm not even that excited about Wayland. It is easy enough to basically install (as is pipewire) but the issue is more to do with selecting and configuring apps that give similar functionality to what we are used to using X. Whole screen capture can be tricky, and the likes of XFCE, for example hasn't yet been programmed for Wayland use (hopefully it, or something like it, will be eventually).

So my general feeling is that I am in no hurry just because larger desktop environments such as Gnome are now Wayland compatible - I don't use such large desktop environments so consider it best waiting since eventually, I suppose, everything will simply work... no point fighting the rough edges just now - upstream will deal with these over time. I suppose it sounds like 'ahead of the game' to produce Wayland-based distro at the moment, but really it will come anyway and no advantage to push out a 'somewhat working' Wayland-based distro right now, though fine to experiment of course. Same with pipewire, unless something better comes along first of course...

Reading about pipewire stumbled on that.. Running Pipewire server without X11 or Wayland..no systemd
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire ... ssues/2249

it is possible..
why pipewire?
good question...audio only? using newer better algorithms?
Pw focuses on handling multimedia data (audio, video and MIDI mainly),with minimal latency .

PipeWire works just fine under X and development builds of Vanilla Dpup 10.0.x (https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/) already support it under both X and Wayland. Whole screen capture from OBS (installed via Flatpak!) over PipeWire works just fine (and so does capture over XSHM).

dimkr wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:30 am

Whole screen capture from OBS (installed via Flatpak!) over PipeWire works just fine (and so does capture over XSHM).

Well, yes, I'm sure it does, but do you really think we should celebrate needing flatpak and the likes of OBS to simply make a screen capture. Hopefully there will be tinier mechanisms than that, which we can rely on, once the dust has settled. On the whole storing large apps on disk doesn't bother me at all, but still, I rather like the simplicity/size/functionality many a Pup and Dog utility app provides. Whilst I don't like some Puppy type utilities, preferring other programs that are slightly larger or provide more polished functionality nevertheless some are amazing in what they manage to achieve even in terms of user-friendliness. Whilst the likes of ffmpeg sometimes provided the under-the-hood capability, the simple user GUI frontends make all the difference and especially when trying to provide a lot of functionality whilst keeping distro download size small.

wiak wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:18 am

do you really think we should celebrate needing flatpak and the likes of OBS

No, I don't. Screen capture also works with OBS when installed via other means, and screen recording applications other than OBS.

All I'm saying is, PipeWire integration in Puppy today is good enough to support even the complex scenario of a sandboxed OBS installed via Flatpak that runs as spot, which captures the contents of an X11 window via Xwayland.

I do like those of topic ones......I just dont follow the flatpak marvel ,on sound topic or elsewhere ,have i read it should be better,libs sharing thing, as every sound related appimages i've tried worked flawlessly .
Or is it that it does so more between flatpak pkgs themselves?
oh i see...Flatpaks can share libraries with another Flatpak .
While appimages, which i think i've never tried more then 2 at once are carrying all their own libs.

Is the price of managing shared libs via flatpak lighter than the price of ,lets say 2 heavy appimages ?
and having fun while admitting i do not understand it all,
let's say freecad appimage 945Mb ,(unpack 3Gb...gulp..)
loaded, running,no project open, it shows using only 200mb of ram use...
and muse4 ,a 60Mb appimage , (extracted 190mb ) ,no project open,is using the same ,around 200Mb of ram !!!*3ù ?!§³?
funny ,isn't it?

We,puppy users are use to layering stuff all over the place anyhow..

Vverve wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:42 pm

... 1 more--topic subjet is voidpup64 , but does include pipewire...messing with topics too

Void distro. Have you seen the KLV thread?

Thanks Clarity

Clarity wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:05 pm

]Void distro. Have you seen the KLV thread?

no...
but the audio_mngr tool enable to save and load profiles and help switching from the dummy to default.

Let's read the kvl success ,

vv

These are Friendly. Check your PM.

dimkr wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 7:30 am PipeWire works just fine under X and development builds of Vanilla Dpup 10.0.x (https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/) already support it under both X and Wayland. Whole screen capture from OBS (installed via Flatpak!) over PipeWire works just fine (and so does capture over XSHM).

Reuploaded the easyos-pipewire-test pet with an ok pinstall.sh , since BK kirkstone does not start pulseaudio in root/startup but in /etc/rc.d/init.d/...
before this pet, i use to kill all pulse before pipewire start..
So ,pulse and jack do what i need (as alsa and jack were...) no need to rush as some said .

oh, sound speaking,my brother who's in sound&pipes industry,as all family did, and a M$ daw user who lurk for freedom...looking around for suggestions i wanted to give him my studio 13.37 v2 usb key and saw l0t3k end it at 3.3 . It was very nicely done !!! one more thing may the virus gave us ,a free hard worked piece of iso... Too much in it for the hobby musician i am , but one of the most good looking desktop integration i've saw .

pipewires sounded good to me at first for latency purpose not for bluetooth to phones to browser to toasters to coffee machine to tv . i do like wires&cables .

For those who ask why pipewire ,tests by the author...https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire ... erformance

& my half topic related ,some mentionned here the "W" word so;
wayland vs X
wartime i$ fine if no bullet no $hell no death ...

today's motto: stay root stay safe...know your fears...

There you can find an easyos pet of pipewire+wireplumber+helvum
Choose no to make a pet of helvum for now , in /root you could find a meson txt(add be me;usr/bin/helvum should have been add..kind of done) to ease if some would like to do one. I'ts as is for testing purpose, extract check & rebuilt if interested ,or meson build one with the wright permissions and uid/gid it may need , pseudo-coder i am is overwhelm in this world...
note;For buiding purpose did got to install graphene+gtk4 from BK easyos pkgmgr ,one or both may be needed to run helvum.
Pet /startup/pipewire script is where i mess around a whole lot,this pet as got BK's original one.
(but i do got at least 15 tests ones- start with dbus, some not, some calling BK pa_applet inside ,+ many more fun tweaks i've tried)
Those pets arent fully tested ,as i use my own unpublished pet having my install of those upgradable for future releases of pipewire,wireplumber,etc.
Install&uninstall with care with easyos ,backup or know what you are doing...
The browsers sound is the main problem , wright wireplumber configuration should do it,as said ,if it only help to point devs to some solutions it's a + .

Have as much fun as i do..

About helvum latest post;
Helvum ( in pipewire) and the audio_mngr_x86_64-linux (in pipewire+pulseaudio-only) are good pointing ''graphical'' tools to see what's picked up or not ..

Half topic note; it is , as now ,a fact that pulseaudio is well integrated&managed in woof latest stuff + easyos + others...BK & woofs devs you all made it working!!! i tested none of bluetooth+hdmi in the last 8 month in any puppy,derivative,etc ...any. Cannot say if it work or not.
if pipewire got to rely forever on pulseaudio, just adding libs over libs ,maybe it's superfluous...if not for pro audio usage.
and whats the price of latency performances of pipewire ? cpu usage ? well , i wont be running a 64 tracks of audio on a DAW...with bluetooth mic/midi_bt/headset/name it.. + 4 hdmi monitors ... simply having more fun...sorry if you feel i'm using the forum as a personal blog...
so ,in case it is;
The views expressed herein are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Department of Justice of Canada,oops, i mean the forums op,maintainers,developers,linux,puppy linux&derivatives devs,time machine inventors,BK,PB ,users,my mother,any of you who worked his sweat coding about one of those to make the magic happend...