Windows 11 s sucks just as bad as Windows 10 s, but the laptop computer is working OK

[bigpup]

Black Friday shopping, I got a Gateway 11.6" convertible laptop (can be a laptop or keep flipping the cover over and it is a tablet).
Touchscreen 2-in-1s Laptop, Intel Celeron N4020, 4GB RAM, 64GB HD
Windows 11 s

Got It as a gift for someone, but having never used Windows 11, I tried it out.

It took me 30 to 45 minutes to get to a desktop the first startup.

Normal setting stuff, OK
Then I had to register and get a Microsoft account. ( it would not go any more into the first boot until I did this)
A few more questions about the free to use for 1 year software, from Microsoft.
Turning on or off a bunch of stuff, that basically gives Microsoft full access to the computer, and storage of your software, documents, pictures, etc.. in the Microsoft cloud.

Finally get to the working desktop.

Basically it is the desktop of a tablet computer, and works like one.

The one big thing about the Windows 10 or 11 s version.
Any software you want to add has to come from the Microsoft Store.

So, let us see how Puppy Linux likes this laptop.

Plugged in a USB stick with a few versions of Puppy Linux on it, as frugal installs, and using a UEFI or a legacy bios boot loader (installed both), installed by Frugalpup Installer program.
Set the boot device order in the Bios for the USB stick to be 1st device.
Tried Fossapup64 9.5
Booted to working desktop in about less than a minute. ( seemed a normal Puppy boot time for a USB, probably would be faster if Puppy was on the internal SSD).
Normal first boot setting stuff.
Most everything is working, except touchpad and WIFI, but I know that is a firmware and driver issue. This has very new Realtek WIFI hardware and haven't looked into what touchpad.
Touch screen works, keyboard works, and flip the cover completely over, and it is a Puppy tablet.

Works very well as a Puppy computer.

If this was not a gift, I would keep it.
I think I will give them this Puppy USB stick and tell them how to boot with it.
Just got to add the needed firmware and maybe the driver.
Maybe one of the other Puppy versions, with a newer kernel and fdrv.sfs, will have what is needed for the WIFI and touchpad.

s15pup64 Puppy got the touchpad working. but no WIFI.

[Wiz57]

Hmmm, well, for starters, keep in mind that this PC from Gateway is NOT the same as the old Gateway. The brand was bought
a few years ago by IIRC Acer. They started releasing a few models about a year ago under the Gateway label as a low cost,
bargain PC. Anyway, the thing about Windows 10 and 11 (if I remember correctly) when you first go to set one up, DO NOT
CONNECT TO ANY INTERNET WHATSOEVER!! This will give you an easy to overlook option to setup as a "local" account!
As for the 30 minutes or more...that is probably more due to the "bargain" components...my current Dell Latitude 3190
booted to first desktop after initial setting up the local account as administrator in under 3 minutes! That is with Windows 10
Education Edition...almost the "Pro" version. If a user wanted to they could upgrade from Windows S mode to Pro in Windows 10
but not sure this option is still available for Windows 11...may need to check on that as I get various questions at the other
forum I moderate.
Wiz

[geo_c]

Always remember, "Windows is a service."

[bigpup]

The long boot time was mainly having to do a lot of setup settings, answer questions, read a bunch of info statements, make a Microsoft Account, and somewhat the slower hardware.

But Puppy is very fast on this computer in comparison!

Windows 11 s is the version that is setup to make you get software from Windows Store.

During the boot process, after setting up the language and keyboard, it went to setting up the Internet connection, and would not proceed until you did that.
Provided no choice to not do this.

I think one reason these computers are low cost, is Windows 11 s is provided free or very, very, low price to the computer manufactures.
They got you hooked to Microsoft Store.

[BologneChe]

Nice gift! If the person's needs are basic, Windows 11S will do the job.

Belle attention mon brave!!

[bigpup]

Well, this is going to be a gift for a young teenager.

I am sure they will be able to hack this thing into what they want it to be!

[bigpup]

Several setup questions were basically, can Microsoft have full and complete access to anything we want to, on the computer?
Make copies and put them in the Microsoft Cloud of anything you produce or try to keep on this computer.
Your pictures, documents, voice recordings, browser history, etc..., basically everything you do!

Makes you really wonder, if you select NO, if that is really accepted.

[Wiz57]

Hehe, yeah, sometimes it makes you wonder as you wander! Anyway, as mentioned I made sure there was NO connection
to the internet when I set mine up...I have also regularly went through the privacy settings, telemetry and what not to
make sure nothing has changed.
Just checked, and yes, you can upgrade from S mode to whatever regular version is installed...ie if the installed Windows
version is Windows 11 Home S, then you would get regular Windows 11 Home. If Win11 Pro S, then you would get Win11 Pro.
The one caveat is that it may be difficult to revert back to S mode if desired, but it is possible. S Mode is good in cases
where you DON'T want a user to install applications willy-nilly, to prevent malware and such, or when maintaining a bunch
of units for something like a school.
Wiz

[williwaw]

Got It as a gift for someone,

lol

[geo_c]

Your pictures, documents, voice recordings, browser history, etc..., basically everything you do!

Makes you really wonder, if you select NO, if that is really accepted.

As I said, "Windows is a service." You know, the kind into which people are conscripted.

[wizard]

Windoows 10 and 11 can be made to play a lot nicer. All my installs block all spying and automatic updating. Good old Libreoffice has a portable version that runs just fine to replace MS weaselware office suite. Have never tried on a "S" (think that stands for STUPID) install, but it is worthwhile for your own system.

wizard

[wiak]

Windoows 10 and 11 can be made to play a lot nicer. All my installs block all spying and automatic updating. Good old Libreoffice has a portable version that runs just fine to replace MS weaselware office suite. Have never tried on a "S" (think that stands for STUPID) install, but it is worthwhile for your own system.

wizard

Mind you, what's the point really - I would miss Linux too much and end up installing all sorts of junk to get bash terminal and virtual machines. I suppose if your work place demands use of Microsoft office then stuck with that requirement, but painfully.

[BologneChe]

Windoows 10 and 11 can be made to play a lot nicer. All my installs block all spying and automatic updating. Good old Libreoffice has a portable version that runs just fine to replace MS weaselware office suite. Have never tried on a "S" (think that stands for STUPID) install, but it is worthwhile for your own system.

wizard

Mind you, what's the point really - I would miss Linux too much and end up installing all sorts of junk to get bash terminal and virtual machines. I suppose if your work place demands use of Microsoft office then stuck with that requirement, but painfully.

It's all a matter of personal perception. At work, I used the MS Office suite intensively and professionally and it was not painful. I prefer to see the great work of programmers than on the ideology of MS when I use MS Office. It is a powerful software suite that has no equal in terms of quality.

P.S. I don't use Windows at home...

[bigpup]

These type, low price laptops, make a very good Puppy Linux laptop computer.

Main reason, Puppy has a low demand on what the processor can do.
Plus low RAM demand when Puppy is running.
Also, most Puppy programs are small in size and do not need much RAM to run.

I have my own HP Stream laptop that had Windows 10s on it.
It has 2GB of RAM and a much older processor, no touch screen.
Runs Puppy as good as my high end Gaming desktop.
The internal drive is only 16GB.
A single version of Puppy, is using a very small amount of this space, so it still has close to 15.5GB free to use.
But a 128GB micro SD card, works just as good for a drive to install Puppy on. Hardly see the SD card, when installed in drive slot.
i use that internal drive just to store stuff on.

Deleted everything on the internal drive.
Partitioned and formatted for Linux with Linux formats.
Installed a few Puppy versions as frugal installs.

If you do ever get one.
Make sure it has a Windows OS on it.
That way you know it is using a normal Bios.

Chromebooks can also be turned into a Puppy computer.
But they are a little harder to setup and usually require you to change the bios being used.
I notice some are now ARM setups.
Puppy will not work on them.
So make sure it is not using a ARM processor setup.

[BologneChe]

@bigpup
Okay, we sell low-budget devices but 2 Gb of RAM...it's a real joke, regardless of the operating system! We can do better with fewer compromises.
With all due respect;

[wiak]

Windoows 10 and 11 can be made to play a lot nicer. All my installs block all spying and automatic updating. Good old Libreoffice has a portable version that runs just fine to replace MS weaselware office suite. Have never tried on a "S" (think that stands for STUPID) install, but it is worthwhile for your own system.

wizard

Mind you, what's the point really - I would miss Linux too much and end up installing all sorts of junk to get bash terminal and virtual machines. I suppose if your work place demands use of Microsoft office then stuck with that requirement, but painfully.

It's all a matter of personal perception. At work, I used the MS Office suite intensively and professionally and it was not painful. I prefer to see the great work of programmers than on the ideology of MS when I use MS Office. It is a powerful software suite that has no equal in terms of quality.

P.S. I don't use Windows at home...

My apologies for accidentally ambiguity. I had no intention of rubbishing MS products and have no interest in ideological discourse about any operating system or application. I also used MS Office every day in my employment and it is an excellent product. The pain I referred to is that of not having Linux immediate available to me since I am used to its efficiency and powerful tools. Also, for my needs and I feel those of probably most people, Linux now provides sufficient good applications and at low or zero cost that heavier commercial distros are not required by me personally at all. Certainly, even the best Linux office suites tend to not quite reach MS Office standard, but on the whole they are fine for most users. Being retired I simy no longer need to use MS distro and feel no need for it for my purposes, which includes in my family's own business. And since several of our computers are relatively old, MS distro is too heavy for them. Pls excuse android-related typos.

[Chelsea80]

@ BologneChe

My OS is :

BionicPup32-8.0+28 (UPupBB-19.03)

On a

Gateway MX8716b - HD 120GB - Ram 2GB

No problems!!

Best regards

Chelsea80

[bugnaw333]

I only use Windows because of this:
https://www.pdsvision.com/solutions/ser ... t-isodraw/
It`s an industry standard for Tech. Illustrators--windows only, no Linux.

[rockedge]

@bugnaw333 Totally understand. Same in many industrial or media hardware, lots of it is Windows only or Apple. Plus the hardware support drivers and firmware lean heavily in the Windows direction.

[wiak]

No doubt about it. Professional scale software inevitably has the edge and often targets one OS being either MS or Apple. Pity, but understandable. Linux terrifically flexible and definitely fine for me, but professional world, industry, architecture, the list grows, yes Linux not able to provide such sophisticated proprietary apps.

[Clarity]

Several setup questions were basically, can Microsoft have full and complete access to anything we want to, on the computer?

I am not so sure that it does what you are inferring.

ON another note
v11s it a good match for the hardware you purchased. It is intended to be a competitor for ChromeOS.

If you are in US with a teenager attending a US school, then many/most schools deploy/use Chromebooks. SO, as was the case with my grandkids, I gave each a chromebook. The beauty is that they can continue to use a familiar desktop without the school's restrictions for their personal use. All of my grands are intrenched within Internet cloud services and games.

For US Collegiants, many use the Microsoft Educational Systems; thus Windows v11s is an ideal match for those students where the school does NOT provide a platform such that the student must get their own or use the PCs in the College LIbrary.

AS such, students in US grow into adulthood via the Google/Apple/Microsoft Clouds depending which school they attend. And this is their base knowledge with little time to invest in new knowledge...in my findings with my kids and, now, grands.

Just my observations.

P.S. Want an interesting treat that will find all of that touch-laptop's features? Make a ChromeOS USB and watch. (MS merely is using the original Chromebook spec to manufacturers for v11s deployments...only without the firmware clip that google requires being replaced with MS's own.)
Reason to do this:

• If the teen's school uses MS, then v11s on the laptop is fine

• But if the school teachers teach via Google system, then the teen can boot the USB to be on familiar ground wiith the school's OS and knowledge.

Their world is a Universe away from our past-present world, IMHO.

[bigpup]

Well, that was exactly what I had to choose on or off about.
A bunch of questions.
Can Microsoft do this or do that and have access to this or that.

I wonder why people seem OK with storing their stuff on another persons computer (Microsoft Cloud)
Are willing to pay that other person, to be able to do it!

[geo_c]

I wonder why people seem OK with storing their stuff on another persons computer (Microsoft Cloud)
Are willing to pay that other person, to be able to do it!

I teach music, for 30 years, all ages and cultures. Any students under 30 I eventually pose this question: "Your homework for this week is to answer one question: Where is the internet?"

About 1 in 25 actually get it right by saying it's a network of computers. Most kids under 16 say something like "It's in the computer" "It's in the phone" or "It's everywhere." I give them week after week to figure it out, and they never come up with an answer, even though they hold all of the collected history of mankind in the palm of their hand.

When they see my alternate OS's they are completely baffled. They say look up this youtube video, and when I search anything but google they say, "That's not youtube." "how can you have mac window buttons on the right side of the window?" They just stare at my laptop mouth open.

They have absolutely no concept of what they're doing, it's just another video game. They'll make fun of their grandparents for not knowing what icon to click in Tik-tok, but they don't get the idea that old guys invented everything they're using and actually understand "Where the internet is."

[rockedge]

@geo_c In 1975 while in 8th grade I had a math teacher, Mr. Nager who one day came into class with a briefcase. This briefcase contained a built in acoustic coupler also now known as a modem. He began the class with "today we'll talk about computers and what they are, what will be their possible impact to science, math, industry and fun." He tells the class he has arranged a demonstration and proceeds to dial a number from the phone on his desk (with a rotary dial) then sticks the phone receiver into what looked like ear muffs built into the brief case which had an intercom speaker like the ones secretaries had on their desks in those days. Mr. Nager explained in the meanwhile he needed to dial in a sequence of numbers to call a "mainframe" at Penn State University that will respond to input from the keyboard in the briefcase with a voice. That's right this mainframe could speak! Ever see the movie "Colossus: The Forbin Project"? The Penn State machine was talking to our math class in middle school in Connecticut and with it's primitive voice generator sounded just like Colossus . Totally mind blowing and life changing in that single hour. Then we found out it was possible to get time on our High School's PDP-11/70 mini-mainframe after school in a very small room behind the Principle's office connected via phone lines to the High school using a Teletype 33. I can hear that round print head chugging away as yellow print out paper came off a roll to this day.

2 of us began to bug Mr. Nager everyday to sign us up for machine time. Since no one else seemed interested the 2 of us got plenty of time which we shared by going together. With a school book on BASIC we began the journey, I made many sacrifices to get time on that PDP-11/70 because it felt like the future and I had caught the wave. Plus suddenly it was clear there really was a "Colossus" out there and it was NETWORKED across the entire planet with other machines at other universities. I knew at 13 this was something to pay attention too.

[geo_c]

I am not so sure that it does what you are inferring.

From what I have gleaned, MS is analyzing keystrokes. They may not be storing all of them, but I'm pretty sure they collect data points on them.

Their world is a Universe away from our past-present world, IMHO.

Their world is one where they are not taught to question "how it works." (see my post above)

When you think about all the talk about "computer literacy" or "online literacy," how is it that kids aren't taught from day one how it works, at least in a general sense. They don't need to learn code and Ipv6 protocols to understand that they're streaming their video chat to someone else's computer, and that it's not actually deleted when they hit the delete button.

[rockedge]

puppy_hal.jpg (12.01 KiB) Viewed 1019 times

[williwaw]

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I’ve still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

HAL, 1968

[bigpup]

Microsoft and others are turning into this from the old TV series Outer Limits.

Control Voice: [introduction] There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: There is nothing wrong with your television set. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Outer Limits.

Just replace television set with computer!

Only they are never going to give you control back as they did at the end of the show.

Control Voice: [sign-off] We now return control of your television set to you, until next week at this same time, when the Control Voice will take you to... The Outer Limits.

[geo_c]

Control Voice: [sign-off] We now return control of your television set to you, until next week at this same time, when the Control Voice will take you to... The Outer Limits.

I forgot about that show!

[wiak]

I knew at 13 this was something to pay attention too.

You should have invested in Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and whoever came along in the big Internet bubble. Some of the bubbles popped admittedly.