Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hello,

I got an old PC with puppy linux installed.
My PC has an old BIOS (NOT UEFI !).
But I cannot create a bootable USB for installing windows.

I downloaded the windows 11 iso.
I tried diferent methods but I failed to create the bootable USB, I guess it's because it has legacy BIOS.
Or there must be a trick ?
I tried with windows 10 and 8 too, but nothing has worked yet.
It seems to do with UDF or NTF or FAT or the MBR or the bootloader stuff, but I didn't find any solution yet.

Thanks in advance for writing me a HOWTO, I will apply it and will report if it works here.

How to create bootable Windows 11 USB install media
https://pureinfotech.com/create-bootabl ... all-media/

Better look at the minimum requirements of Windows 11, before you try to install it.

Hi bigpup,
Did you actually read my problem description ?
The link you provided is for tools from Windows.
I have puppy linux only at the moment.
So how do I do ?
The problem is not as simple as it seems, I tried many methods but none has worked, because the bios is not UEFI and I have only puppy linux.
Give me a working method that works on your puppy on an old PC.
Thanks

I tried with windows 10 and 8 too, but nothing has worked yet

On my machine, MS Windows is the default OS.

To run any other OS, I need to press F9 to get the Hewlett Packard boot loader,
which displays a list of bootable OS and bootable apps (for example, ram tester, MS Win installer. etc)

MS Windows ALWAYS boots using UEHI
MS Windows NEVER boots using legacy BIOS.

In the BIOS settings, I can enable/disable Secure boot, legacy boot, etc etc.

Whatever settings I make, MS Windows boots using UEHI by default.

Pressing F9 runs the boot manager.
If legacy boot is NOT enabled, then
The boot manager displays a list of items that can boot using UEHI ONLY.

If legacy boot is enabled, then
The boot manager displays a list of items that can boot using UEHI
and the boot manager also lists legacy boot items, in addition to the UEHI items.
like cd/dvd discs and usb flash drives.

UEHI boots using files that are copied to file systems.

To boot legacy items, the BIOS copies to ram the MBR (Master Boot Record)
which is the 512 bytes at the beginning of the drive, which is outside of any file system. and executes it (the MBR copy that is in ram)
Legacy boot does not understand files or file systems.
UEHI does understand files and file systems.
UEHI finds the boot configuration files, usually in a folder named boot
The UEHI boot files are normal files that can be copied and moved and deleted and edited.

AFAIK, MS Windows 8 and 10 and 11 only boot using UEHI.
AFAIK, MS Windows 8 and 10 and 11 NEVER boot using the legacy bios (using boot records)

I got an old PC with puppy linux installed.

Old PC to be run for Widows 8-11--waste of time.
Better try Windows XP or XPLite. IMHO.

bugnaw333 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 11, 2022 8:33 pm

I got an old PC with puppy linux installed.

Old PC to be run for Widows 8-11--waste of time.
Better try Windows XP or XPLite. IMHO.

I need at least Win 7.
Do you know how to create a USB to boot from LEGACY BIOS ?

I got win11 to install on an old P4 desktop with legacy bios. There is a free third party software (wintousb) to allow copy of this install to be moved to an external usb drive and from there on out, can be booted from that usb drive. MS used to have that ability built in least the "professional" versions, dont think the "home" versions ever did. But its third party freeware. The site offering it has paid software upgrades, but the free version will do this.

Sure I dont know the details of exactly what this software does, I do know you cant install windows then just move the SSD or hard drive to usb, wont boot that way. Needs whatever that third party software does. Oh and lot sites supposedly offering the wintousb but you probably want to download it from the original site.

You talking about old PC with puppy linux.
How old is your PC?
How many megabyte of RAM?
What puppy version do you have?

Windows 11 doesn't work on computers that are older than about 4 years,
because of security design.

MS site will give list of compatible computers.
_______________________________

@mimine
You didn't say what you tried and the error that shows when it failed, so this could be repetitive or it may not be possible to do what you want.

I haven't tried windows 11, but I have had success building bookable usbs using both ventoy and etcher. Both have linux versions.

Etcher takes the iso and makes a bootable usb. At boot, that iso will start when you select the usb.

Ventoy, you install ventoy itself to the USB and then just copy any iso or img file(s) to the USB. Ventoy shows a menu at boot listing all images on the usb and allows you to boot any of them.

@williams2

MS Windows ALWAYS boots using UEHI
MS Windows NEVER boots using legacy BIOS.

Puzzled by this as I have all my W10 computers booting in legacy bios mode. I think that would only apply if W8-10 was originally installed in UEFI mode. If installed in legacy bios mode it will boot in that mode.

@don570

Windows 11 doesn't work on computers that are older than about 4 years,
because of security design.

You are correct, as designed, but some clever people figured out how to bypass the limitations. It requires some serious manipulation, but does work. I have W11 running nicely on a 2007 vintage computer that doesn't even support UEFI.

@sfein1000
Take a look at this article: https://askubuntu.com/questions/162174/ ... -installer

Without knowing your computer model/cpu/ram, I would advise you to go with W7 since it will be easiest to install and run with the least resources.

wizard

Probably I should have said:

On my machine, MS Windows ALWAYS boots using UEHI
On my machine, MS Windows NEVER boots using legacy BIOS.

On my machine, using UEHI mode,
UEHI boots MS Windows by default.
unless you press ESC to get a menu,
and you can choose memory tester, repair options, install options, boot manager, configure bios, etc etc

If legacy mode is enabled, you get all the exact same UEHI choices,
plus any legacy boot choices,
in my case, if I plug in a bootable usb flash drive
it gets added to the boot manager menu,
MS Windows boots by default (using UEHI), unless I use the boot manager menu.

Your machine may work differently.

The master boot record is not the same as the MBR of a BIOS machine.

dd if=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 | hd

The MBR of this UEHI machine using gpt, is mostly zeros.
Especially, the partition table in the MBR is all zeros.
MS Windows would not boot from this gpt MBR without some trickery.

With Linux you can download a Windows iso and when you do so you get the choice of which version you want. (Windows home or Pro). You select the one you have a licence for.
To answer the question, as recommended above Ventoy will work with a Windows iso and it will boot from either a PC with Legacy or UEFI settings. https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html. The instructions for installing Ventoy to a USB stick using Linux are giving here:https://www.ventoy.net/en/doc_start.html after the Windows instructions.
Windows 10 can be installed without a TPM chip and it you can install it on a Legacy BIOS computer.

Ok it seems that some people didn't try to install windows 7 or 8.1 or 10 or 11 on a 10 year old PC and talk about things they have NO ** idea about.
AS USUAL !

I am trying Ventoy
./VentoyGUI.x86_64
That created 2 partitions, 1 empty exfat and 1 efi 32Mb vfat, and then ?
I just copy the iso in the usb ?
I am gonna try it later.
Who here please did try the ventoy thing ?

Or who knows a very simple method; that really works ?
I mean, please no talking without knowing.

If you prepared the Ventoy USB stick then just copy your iso's to the large exfat partition and then safely remove USB stick. Pop the Ventoy USB stick into the PC that you want to do the installation on and select that to boot from.

@sfein1000'is Ventoy offering-suggestion is a positive and workable approach for getting a Microsoft ISO and booting it to install Windows from any past.

I strongly encourage every forum member who uses Ventoy to keep ALL ISO files is a folder named 'BOOTISOS' on the Ventoy USB stick in partition #1.

This advice will become important should you ALSO want to boot PUP/Forum distros, later, after solving this Windows issue.

peterw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:53 pm

If you prepared the Ventoy USB stick then just copy your iso's to the large exfat partition and then safely remove USB stick. Pop the Ventoy USB stick into the PC that you want to do the installation on and select that to boot from.

I did it, but it failed.
The legacy BIOS doesn't reckognize the usb as a bootable device.
And got this message "disk boot failure, insert system disk and press enter".
It has to do with secureboot ? Or other options ?

(Weird because I have a usb with bionicpup on it, and it boots no problem...)

Just been trying my Ventoy USB stick in various 32 bit laptops. On a 2009 Acer Aspire one I got the full list of iso's but it quickly changed to only the first item on the list without my intervention and that is near as I have got to your case. I have looked a bit more at my Ventoy USB stick and I have 3 partitions whereas you normally get 2. I have added another to have the ability to load files on it and make it more useful. I have attached a screenshot of my Ventoy USB partitions as seen by GParted together with my list of iso's that I can load. You will note that one of the partitions has got the boot flag set which will be needed for Legacy computers. Is that the case with yours.

Example using a Ventoy USB with an 8GB capacity.

1. Made the Ventoy USB

2. Approx 7GB is partition #1

3. I made a folder on partition #1 named BOOTISOS

4. i copied at approx 5GB MS ISO file into the BOOTISOS folder

5. Shutdown to boot the USB

6. On the Ventoy Menu, selected the Windows ISO file

7. Booted to install Windows.

Done.

AFter Windows installation

1. Booted the Ventoy USB

2. Hit F4-key ===> Localboot

3. Select the "installed OS" (actually the Windows just installed to the system drive)

4. Windows booted from system drive.

Done.

Hope this is helpful

P.S. There are ONLY 2 forum distros ISO files that boot directly from this (or any) Ventoy without issues (many). There are instructions on this forum for how to easily handle that; to have all of your PUPs/DOGs boot without the issues mentioned.

It will not be mentioned by me HERE, as this thread is about Windows assistance.

I start with an empty USB (/dev/sdc).
Then run ventoy
Unselect "secure boot support".
Install.
I finally get these 2 partitions.

Have you got your iso's in sdc1? By the way what is on sdb?

peterw wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:29 pm

Have you got your iso's in sdc1? By the way what is on sdb?

yes isos in sdc1.
Sda and sdb are not important / relevant and will not be used for the testing. (sda hard disk and sdb puppy linux usb stick).

@mimine

Try formatting first sdc1 from exfat to FAT32 before putting the isos.

Best regards.

Not sure what you are doing but just so that I can see if there is anything going on with newer versions of Ventoy than what I have used in the past I downloaded the latest ventoy-1.0.82 and extracted it. I read the README in the extracted directory and opening a terminal in the extracted directory typed "sh Ventoy2Disk.sh -i /dev/sdb" without the ". After typing y to a few warnings about the USB was just about to wiped and data destroyed it did its work and installed Ventoy on the USB stick. I then transferred some Puppy iso's into sb1 to test it. On rebooting and selecting the USB stick up come the menu with the Puppies on so that I could boot them. I tried on a few laptops including the old one described below and a UEFI only one.

To make sure that it was not an old hardware issue, for the above work, I used an old 2009 single core Atom 32 bit laptop running bionic pup to prepare the USB stick. The only issue that I got was downloading the Ventoy from the git site because the I had difficulty getting the option to do that with old browsers and so did it with a Mint installation.

In the past, I have downloaded Windows iso's and put them into the Ventoy sdb1 and they have worked and so I have no doubt that will work if I wanted.

I will add that the Ventoy2Disk automatically: formatted sdb1 as exfat with the label Ventoy and set the boot flag and formatted the 32 MiB sdb2 partition as fat16 with the label VTOEFI with the esp flag set

I download ventoy-1.0.82-linux.tar
I extract all to /root
I run in shell :
cd ventoy-1.0.82/
./VentoyGUI.x86_64

then unselect option "secure boot support"
select USB sdc
install

Is your old PC 32 bit one or a 64 bit? ./VentoyGUI.x86_64 is for 64 bit PCs. There is a VentoyGUI.i386 for 32 bit PCs. If you followed my example I think Ventoy will sort itself out and the default is that secure boot is disabled.

64 bit

OK. Your PC is not that old. You have to try something. Sometimes a USB make doesn't play ball and in cases such as yours it is wise to try another USB make. Repeat the process that I used to create the USB stick and see it that works. If it doesn't I am out of ideas.

Just to add that I came across an old Windows 7 DVD and had time to create an iso from it with the dd command. I added the created iso to the Ventoy USB stick prepared earlier and on an old 2009 Atom laptop it booted where I selected Windows 7 and it booted into the screen where I had to start selecting details for Windows to proceed. So it shows that Ventoy works fine.
If desperate and wanting to learn more you can try the procedure outlined here https://techbit.ca/2019/02/creating-a-b ... ing-linux/

Ok that pc was too old so ventoy didn't work on it...
So I had to buy a "newer" PC, and now ventoy works on it...