Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Vanilla Dpup in general is a very good Operating system.

But I feel there are a few needed programs missing.

1. Needs a better installer program to do an install of Vanilla Dpup to any type device.
The Puppy installer is no good for UEFI computers, which most computers are, now.
Suggest having the Frugalpup Installer for doing installs.
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=337

2. Need some kind of info program.
Pup-Sysinfo would be good.

3.Gparted

4. Take a shot

bigpup wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:07 pm

4. Take a shot

Have you tried to press the PrtScn key on your keyboard?

OK.

That works.

Now that I know it will do that.

I guess no reason for Take a shot.

Thanks for info!

But you do need to understand how to use Mtpaint.

I guess no reason for Take a shot.

Nay, Nay, Prtscrn only takes a full screen shot, as far as I know. Take A Shot offers features like output file format, time delay, window shot only, and region only shots that I use much more than just "full screen". just my opinion.

wizard

apt gives access to a multitude of apps. why do some think something is missing if their preferred app is not included?

I was under the impression Dima hopes someone else could use vanilla as a starting point for full featured Puppy. If I am not mistaken, how would this best be accomplished?

bigpup, aee my post here, viewtopic.php?p=69513#p69513 and that next post on that thread. [There's a post on in the VanillaDpup Section which links to and provides notice of the above, but I've saved you the trouble of an extra click.].

TAS requires ffmpeg, best installed via apt or synaptic. But the the second post on the above thread provides a pet of 01micho's mtpaintsnap.

@williwaw

why do some think something is missing if their preferred app is not included?

Not necessarily a flaw, but the inclusion of Puppy's wide range of utilities and apps in its small size is certainly a plus and a way to differentiate it from distributions that force new users to install commonly used programs and features. Puppy developers have continued to improve functionality over the years at very little cost to size or resource consumption. When you go through Puppy's menus it's pretty amazing to see what can be done without installing a single new app.

wizard

My purpose for this topic is more about the idea of Vanilla Dpup being posted on Distrowatch as the newest Puppy version.

I and a lot of us know about all the very good Puppy specific utilities and programs that have always been part of a Puppy Linux build.

Someone new to Puppy is only going to know about what is in the Puppy version they download and run.

I am not talking about loading up Vanilla Dpup with everything possible, but a few things are always needed.

If nothing else, to help a new user with problems.

I always wondered why this single program is not standard in all Puppy versions.
If you want a small clean applications menu.
PupControl
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=3558
.

.
.

hi dimkr and everyone

what is the status of vanilla Dpup
you have placed it on the waiting list at distrowatch
does that mean you do not want it in consideration as an official puppy

wanderer

@bigpup
Yes, looks a good utility. I see in the change log that the full features ofJWM Desk have been removed. I wonder why, as this could have functioned well as an all-in-one utility. Now you sit with 2 applications again, PupControl and JWM Desk.
Edit: It does actually link to Puppy Theme Manager so you don't really need JWM Desk...but, it's basically just a re-arrangement of the existing Menu overall so I suppose it may appeal to some....

Does the community have a perception of what Wayland and Pipewire is bringing to the Operating system and what is happening with the Kernel?

Something very wonderful is maturing right in front of us.

Things, we use to hold dear, will improve with some very easy simpler solutions already happening.

I don't want Vanilla Dpup to become the "official" Puppy. That will force me to add a huge pile of applications: some will be of extremely low quality, some will be legacy GTK+ 2 applications that need to be ported to GTK+ 3, some will need to be fixed so they can be built with today's compilers, some won't work under Wayland and will have to go away at some point, some will have an alternative and cause debate (i.e. the editor war) and so on.

Every attempt to convince me to add this application or that application is a waste of time. If anyone wants to build an "official" Puppy based on Vanilla Dpup, instead of just talking about the potential here, please take a look at:

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... /README.md
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... ibutor-101
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... -on-GitHub

It's super easy to add one package to dpup and rebuild it with zero changes except that addition. Just try it and see for yourself.

OK, I understand.

But this is not something to not do.

Needs a better installer program to do an install of Vanilla Dpup to any type device.
The Puppy installer is no good for UEFI computers, which most computers are, now.
Suggest having the Frugalpup Installer for doing installs.
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=337

bigpup,
have you looked at barrys recent development of an installer for limine?

I have looked at Limine, but have not used it.

The big reasons I suggest changing to having Frugalpup Installer.

It comes with scripts for doing installs to USB in several ways.
http://www.fishprogs.software/puppy/fru ... index.html

It can install a boot loader for any type bios.
Gives you a choice of type boot loader to install.
Legacy bios
UEFI bios
If you want to, both type boot loaders.

The UEFI boot loader will also install a Puppy security key.
Provides ability to install a Puppy security key on the computer.
To be able to boot with secure boot enabled.

Plus when using the main Frugalpup program.
All it offers is frugal installs.
So no more constant having to explain to people, why a frugal install is best to use, over doing a full install.

Note:
It may be required to use Gparted to partition and format a drive, if it is not already properly partitioned and formatted.
So, it is good to also have Gparted, to be able to use.

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:47 am

Note:
It may be required to use Gparted to partition and format a drive, if it is not already properly partitioned and formatted.
So, it is good to also have Gparted, to be able to use.

Yes, there are other steps that should rightfully be separated from an installer app

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:47 am

It can install a boot loader for any type bios.
Gives you a choice of type boot loader to install.
Legacy bios
UEFI bios

Thats nice, but if one needs to know how to partition as a prior step, one should also have no issue choosing and installing a standalone boot loader that fits either the bios or UEFI

bigpup wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:47 am

The UEFI boot loader will also install a Puppy security key.
Provides ability to install a Puppy security key on the computer.
To be able to boot with secure boot enabled.

Thats a plus

Is there a standalone app for installing security keys that you know of?

mikeslr wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:51 pm

TAS requires ffmpeg, best installed via apt or synaptic.

And there is a key point regarding many Puppy utility tiny multimedia-related apps: they rely on ffmpeg being available on the base release. Ffmpeg is such a flexible app, it being provided in Puppy was a catalyst for many P-apps such as Pmusic, Precord, TAS and many other such very functional and useful tiny to add little ffmpeg front-ends. I would thus suggest all Puppy distros should come with ffmpeg pre-installed since that allows addition of tons of small and excellent typical Puppy utility apps. Not having ffmpeg but instead relying on users to use apt to download multimedia apps brings with it all kinds of otherwise unneeded bloat that swells the resulting final Puppy install to similar size of any mainstream Linux distro and thus takes away the advantage of what has always been Puppy.

I don't disagree at all that having the like of apt (VanillaPup) or xbps (Void Pup), the availability of whaich really increases the overall scope and expandability of Puppy for 'those who want to thus expand their Puppy system", but such expansion (hopefully optional) will inevitably come with huge increase in final size, which can be referred to as 'bloat' when a more puppy-like system would by default include ffmpeg and many many absolutely tiny utility apps. Personally I have little worry about increased distro-size, but nevertheless it remains great to have a distro called 'Puppy' that offers very much in terms of functionality in smallish size.

EDIT: And I agree entirely with bigpup's comments about frugalpup installer. One of the main things I reach to Puppy for is exactly that - saves me having to learn how to create my own UEFI installer utility, which would just be a re-invention of a perfectly good existing utility which I feel should certainly be included in all new Puppy builds. Limine may be good but a bit less mainstream as far as I understand it and it is great when Puppy frugalpup can use mainstream grub2 underneath since that is supported by a large upstream team.

williwaw wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:28 pm

have you looked at barrys recent development of an installer for limine?

I have. Nice, but, ...

GRUB2 is not just better, but support from motherboard manufacturers, boot behavior, features, options, performance is way ahead, not to mention provides BIOS, UEFI, SECURE-BOOT,GPT, MSDOS, EFI, broad filesystems, ETC. ALSO to mention it is NOT an experiment.

PUPPYs, DOGS, Vanilla, KLV, have clear understanding which is currently and remains trouble-free.

Maybe in the future it will mature.

dimkr wrote: ↑Sat Oct 29, 2022 4:25 pm

Hi @Dimkr

what do you think about updating the glibc package in Vanilla Dpup 9.2.x

@Sofiya No, 9.2.x sticks to Debian 11 packages.

Clarity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 8:56 am

williwaw wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 6:28 pm

have you looked at barrys recent development of an installer for limine?

I have. Nice, but, ...

GRUB2 is not just better, but support from motherboard manufacturers, boot behavior, features, options, performance is way ahead, not to mention provides BIOS, UEFI, SECURE-BOOT,GPT, MSDOS, EFI, broad filesystems, ETC. ALSO to mention it is NOT an experiment.

PUPPYs, DOGS, Vanilla, KLV, have clear understanding which is currently and remains trouble-free.

Maybe in the future it will mature.

Hey! Limine dev here. Not to stir up any trouble, but I saw this comment and I'd just like to point out that ALL of those things you mentioned (save for "broad filesystems") are indeed already supported by Limine and in a stable, working state.

Easy may be an experiment but Limine is not

P.S.: Not sure about performance, but from all my testing (and the testing of volunteers and users), Limine performs pretty much on par with GRUB generally speaking. If anything I got more reports of it being *faster* than GRUB than the contrary. If you have an example of an instance in which Limine is significantly slower than GRUB2 I'd like to hear about that!

Hello @mintsuki. Great that you are on the forum here, and hear.

In reading my view, I think you (and others) see that I did not DISPARAGE, as that is not my way.

Expect a PM from me as this thread is specific to things in/around VDPup.

bigpup wrote: ↑Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:57 pm

OK, I understand.

But this is not something to not do.

Needs a better installer program to do an install of Vanilla Dpup to any type device.
The Puppy installer is no good for UEFI computers, which most computers are, now.
Suggest having the Frugalpup Installer for doing installs.
viewtopic.php?t=337

Just for information: in VanillaDpup, in addition to apt/synaptic, the Puppy package manager is also available.
Out of curiosity, I updated the package database and chose the puppy-noarch repository.
I found frugalpup-38 as well as a Grub4Dos bootloader config available here (didn't install or test them though).

CUPS - Perhaps am being lazy, but how does one make CUPS work in dpup?

Printing is grayed out in the Setup menu. When I try installing cups-client in Synaptic GUI, nothing happens when browsing localhost:631.

Sorry, am a plain user, but much thanks to this Puppy and its Synaptic GUI, I can add the latest Zoom for teaching.

Have you tried apt install cups?